Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => Street Showcase => Topic started by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 06, 2018, 11:36:49 AM

Title: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 06, 2018, 11:36:49 AM
Magnum has a course on street photography. I wonder what Russ would say about it. I find it amusing that the very first photograph when you land on the site would not fit Russ' definition.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to include a link:

https://learn.magnumphotos.com/?utm_source=Magnum%20Photos&utm_campaign=1dc13e24f0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_12_05_03_06_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8b268cbf2c-1dc13e24f0-4269213&mc_cid=1dc13e24f0&mc_eid=a183d9d9ca


Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: faberryman on December 06, 2018, 12:18:42 PM
I find it amusing that the very first photograph when you land on the site would not fit Russ' definition.
Amusing but not surprising. And only amusing until Russ starts pontificating. Then just tiresome.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Ivophoto on December 06, 2018, 12:19:28 PM
Magnum has a course on street photography. I wonder what Russ would say about it. I find it amusing that the very first photograph when you land on the site would not fit Russ' definition.

Quote:

There is not one definition of “street photography”: the word ‘street’ is a euphemism, standing essentially in opposition to the studio that preceded it, and ultimately to any kind of restrictive frame – it is a photography that is free of rules

OMG
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 06, 2018, 12:34:14 PM
Quote:...

Source/link?
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 06, 2018, 12:48:07 PM
Really funny. As it happens I think pigeons are as overused as an old ABBA album. I have a list of stuff I hate in “street” photography. Pigeons are very high up.
Title: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Ivophoto on December 06, 2018, 12:59:33 PM
Source/link?

The same website your are linking to.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181206/94bb2610922fae4fe9b22264c838d273.jpg)
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: KLaban on December 06, 2018, 01:13:01 PM
https://www.magnumphotos.com/theory-and-practice/the-joy-of-seeing-magnum-street-photography/ (https://www.magnumphotos.com/theory-and-practice/the-joy-of-seeing-magnum-street-photography/)
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 06, 2018, 01:26:03 PM
Yes, thanks, kind of hidden inside different menus.

Another relevant quote:

Quote
As Carolyn Drake suggests: “Every photographer should define what ‘the street’ means to them”.

And this (emphasis mine):

Quote
If Magnum photographers tend to focus on human nature and the human condition, some, like Ernst Haas, found street beauty in graphic elements alone: a torn poster, iron work in the pavement. Animals also make for very rich and lively subjects: while Elliott Erwitt is the most famous of the “street animal photographers”, Richard Kalvar’s nonchalant dog became one of his best-known images, and Inge Morath’s “Llama in Times Square” is one of the most popular photographs in Magnum’s archives.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: KLaban on December 06, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
Seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable and fluid interpretation by Magnum.

I dislike tight, limiting interpretations of genre in much the same way I dislike tight, limiting briefs - either those dictated by clients or those sold by Marks & Spencer.

;-)
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 06, 2018, 01:27:47 PM
This really puts the cat amongst the pigeons.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: petermfiore on December 06, 2018, 01:49:02 PM
All forms of Art need to evolve...otherwise they become irrelevant and die.


Peter
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Ivophoto on December 06, 2018, 02:03:01 PM
It’s a bit what I try to explain since day one I’m on Lula.

By the way, the 99$ is well spent. Very interesting videos and booklets.

I can encourage taking the course. Men could learn something about evolution in photography.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 06, 2018, 03:02:27 PM
Amusing but not surprising. And only amusing until Russ starts pontificating. Then just tiresome.

Tell me what you think my "definition" is, Fab.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: faberryman on December 06, 2018, 04:47:06 PM
Tell me what you think my "definition" is, Fab.
You said you don't have a defintion.

Quote from: RSL
There IS no definition in words, any more than there's a definition for landscape in words. It's what you make of it.

The only criteria you have articulated is that the image be unposed and that it tell a story. Then there is a lot of hand waving.

https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Rob C on December 06, 2018, 05:25:37 PM
You said you don't have a defintion.

The only criteria you have articulated is that the image be unposed and that it tell a story. Then there is a lot of hand waving.

https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/


One man's hand waving is another man's semaphore.

I can't speak Greek, but I'm perfectly sure that the Greeks can, and understand what they say to one another most of the time, even through tragedies of many kinds.

:-)
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 07, 2018, 10:31:56 AM
You said you don't have a defintion.

The only criteria you have articulated is that the image be unposed and that it tell a story. Then there is a lot of hand waving.

https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/

You're right, Fab. That's the problem with being in a hurry. I should have addressed that query to Slobodan.

Okay, Slobodan. What do you you think is my definition of street photography? And what makes you think the picture on the start of that email is street photography?
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 07, 2018, 10:43:27 AM
There is not one definition of “landscape photography”: the word ‘landscape’ is a euphemism, standing essentially in opposition to the studio that preceded it, and ultimately to any kind of restrictive frame – it is a photography that is free of rules.

This sort of fits all art genres. You can pontificate about what you're doing being "free of rules," but what that actually means is you haven't a clue what you're doing, and don't want to take responsibility for the results.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Ivophoto on December 07, 2018, 11:09:00 AM
There is not one definition of “landscape photography”: the word ‘landscape’ is a euphemism, standing essentially in opposition to the studio that preceded it, and ultimately to any kind of restrictive frame – it is a photography that is free of rules.

This sort of fits all art genres. You can pontificate about what you're doing being "free of rules," but what that actually means is you haven't a clue what you're doing, and don't want to take responsibility for the results.

I always knew those Magnum hipsters could not be trusted.
If HCB or Capa where still alive, they would give them a good spank, for sure.
How they dare not to take responsibility for the immense image diarrhea there are responsible for as a result of that utterly cluelessness.


Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Ivophoto on December 07, 2018, 11:13:52 AM
Apart from being clueless, I find the course very informative and interesting . It confirms largely my point of view and what I tried to explain in the past weeks.

One big surprise was the section of Bruce Gilden. I had a total wrong idea about that man, it appears to be a (relative) sensitive and intelligent man, I enjoyed his interview a lot.

I can only recommend to spend the few bucks.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 07, 2018, 11:57:37 AM
It does look interesting. I may give it a go. Thing is street isn’t really such a biggie for me. Do I want to devote so much time to it. I will give it serious thought.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Alan Klein on December 07, 2018, 12:04:18 PM
Really funny. As it happens I think pigeons are as overused as an old ABBA album. I have a list of stuff I hate in “street” photography. Pigeons are very high up.
My street pidgeon shot.  Glad you like them. :)
(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6178/6181670874_f73ae71098_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/aqfFoj)Mealtime (https://flic.kr/p/aqfFoj) by Alan Klein (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/), on Flickr
Title: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Ivophoto on December 07, 2018, 12:28:33 PM
It does look interesting. I may give it a go. Thing is street isn’t really such a biggie for me. Do I want to devote so much time to it. I will give it serious thought.

It is about photography. I don’t care on Street as such, but it’s interesting to see how Parr, Gilden, Etc approach it.
For me, it is the best about photography I saw the last years. (The BBC documentary ‘The genius’ was also good, but much more bloated than this Magnum course)
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 07, 2018, 12:45:16 PM
That’s a good point IVO. I may have a go in the new year. Winding up work in the next week then off the the Drakensberg over Christmas. I plan on doing some landscape photography. I turn 58 on the 25. Perhaps I will make this course my birthday gift to myself.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Rob C on December 07, 2018, 02:31:20 PM
https://www.magnumphotos.com/theory-and-practice/the-joy-of-seeing-magnum-street-photography/ (https://www.magnumphotos.com/theory-and-practice/the-joy-of-seeing-magnum-street-photography/)


Great sell by Magnum!

Really liked the very last shot by Chris Anderson: Street Portrait, Shenzhen, China.

Rob
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 07, 2018, 05:15:56 PM
... Okay, Slobodan. What do you you think is my definition of street photography?

Mind reading is still on my to-do list, Russ ;)

Dare I suggest it is on you to tell us what your definition is? After all, you must have some criteria, based on that secret, personal definition, for your categorical categorization of photos published on LuLa or elsewhere as Street or Not Street. Furthermore, your proclamations of "this is Street" or even "this is good Street" leave most of us scratching our heads.

Quote
And what makes you think the picture on the start of that email is street photography?

You say it isn't? I thought that the opening photo of the Magnum course on Street Photography would have something to do with it. Silly me.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 07, 2018, 07:44:34 PM
Come on, Slobodan. I know you've read this: https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/. Re-read the first paragraph. That's my definition. And no, I don't think a picture of birds in the air is street photography, and I don't think the people at Magnum think so either. If they do, then they've forgotten what HCB and the others taught them.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Rob C on December 08, 2018, 04:44:11 AM
Come on, Slobodan. I know you've read this: https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/. Re-read the first paragraph. That's my definition. And no, I don't think a picture of birds in the air is street photography, and I don't think the people at Magnum think so either. If they do, then they've forgotten what HCB and the others taught them.

Magnum is in the business of selling Magnum; it will travel any legal route to do that, and if latching onto the fantasies of the mass of wannabe great snappers out there helps it make a few buck, then it will. Good luck to it: everybody sells a dream - even to himself. What else can it do? It's traditional news magazine market hardly exists, I suppose, so alternatives have to be found or the doors closed. I'd rather they stay open. I'm a sentimentalist, you know.

;-)
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Ivophoto on December 08, 2018, 07:14:29 AM
Magnum is in the business of selling Magnum; it will travel any legal route to do that, and if latching onto the fantasies of the mass of wannabe great snappers out there helps it make a few buck, then it will. Good luck to it: everybody sells a dream - even to himself. What else can it do? It's traditional news magazine market hardly exists, I suppose, so alternatives have to be found or the doors closed. I'd rather they stay open. I'm a sentimentalist, you know.

;-)

True, Magnum is looking for income. By selling square prints, or selling on line courses, whatever.
Anyhow. This doesn’t make Magnum photographers a bunch of clueless, detached from their God, pointless marginal figures.
Personally, I like to listen to the story of a Peter Van Agtmael, Bruce Gilden or even Mark Power. They have something to tell and I’m not to moldy  to take out of that story what can help me in my photographic evolution.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 08, 2018, 08:45:37 AM
You're right, Ivo. You can learn a lot from these guys. But don't confuse what you learn with street, as Slobodan seems to. They're in the photojournalism business. Don't forget that when they founded Magnum, Capa told Cartier-Bresson he should call himself a photojournalist if he wanted to succeed. The other thing you need to remember, if you ever knew it, is that most of Cartier-Bresson's work was photojournalism. Before the war he did a lot of street, and during the Magnum period he occasionally did street. But these guys were photojournalists, telling an understandable story, which is why Life magazine and others of its type ran their stuff.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: faberryman on December 08, 2018, 01:31:29 PM
You're right, Ivo. You can learn a lot from these guys. But don't confuse what you learn with street, as Slobodan seems to. They're in the photojournalism business.
I am just wondering how you have concluded that one cannot learn anything about street from the video. Have you viewed it?
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 08, 2018, 01:52:05 PM
Hi Fab, have you?
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: faberryman on December 08, 2018, 01:56:14 PM
Hi Fab, have you?
Nice deflection. I haven't viewed it, but then I haven't passed judgment on its usefulness. I am just wondering how you arrived at your conclusion. And whether your view should be listened to in making my decision about purchasing it.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 08, 2018, 02:04:04 PM
Nice deflection. I haven't viewed it, but then I haven't passed judgment on its usefulness. I am just wondering how you arrived at your conclusion. And whether your view should be listened to in making my decision about purchasing it.

Well, first of all, why do you think it was a "deflection?" You asked me whether or not I'd read it. Seems fair to ask whether or not you've read it. Please explain where, exactly, I "pass[ed] judgement on its usefulness." I pointed out that these guys are photojournalists. If they tried to make a go of it on street photography they'd starve. Also, I've read just about everything published by Magnum photographers literate enough to write about their profession. I'll probably read this stuff too. And as far as whether or not you should be listening to me, I'd suggest instead of that you go back to your landscape and rocks and architecture. I stays still while you shoot it.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: faberryman on December 08, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
Well, first of all, why do you think it was a "deflection?" You asked me whether or not I'd read it. Seems fair to ask whether or not you've read it.
Because you still have not answered the question.

Please explain where, exactly, I "pass[ed] judgement on its usefulness." I pointed out that these guys are photojournalists. If they tried to make a go of it on street photography they'd starve.
Your judgment as to the usefulness of the course for street:

You're right, Ivo. You can learn a lot from these guys. But don't confuse what you learn with street, as Slobodan seems to. They're in the photojournalism business.

And as far as whether or not you should be listening to me, I'd suggest instead of that you go back to your landscape and rocks and architecture. I stays still while you shoot it.
The guy posing on the Canon looks like he stayed pretty still while you took his picture.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 08, 2018, 03:20:18 PM
Because you still have not answered the question.
You need to learn to read more carefully, Fab. I answered the question.

Quote
Your judgment as to the usefulness of the course for street:
Again, you need to learn to read more carefully. I didn't say the course wasn't useful. What I said was: "You can learn a lot from these guys. But don't confuse what you learn with street."

Quote
The guy posing on the Canon looks like he stayed pretty still while you took his picture.

Absolutely. The shot took me a full second and a half. He stayed quite still for the whole period.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: faberryman on December 08, 2018, 03:27:28 PM
Also, I've read just about everything published by Magnum photographers literate enough to write about their profession. I'll probably read this stuff too.
I'm not sure what you are planning on reading. The Magnum course consists of ten videos. You really are out to lunch.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: RSL on December 08, 2018, 03:58:41 PM
You're really straining at gnats, Fab. I guess that's all you can do at this point. It's like that old advice for lawyers: If you have the facts on your side, hammer the facts; if you have the law on your side, hammer the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law on your side hammer the table. Pound away my friend.
Title: Re: The Art of Street Photography - A Magnum Course
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on December 21, 2018, 09:52:46 AM
Thanks for the link, I will study the content.

I find it sad all this discussion about what is and it isn't "Street". Sounds like kids arguing in the play ground...