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Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: hubell on November 30, 2018, 10:56:58 am

Title: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: hubell on November 30, 2018, 10:56:58 am
For anyone who has C1 v. 11 or prior versions and might be thinking of downloading a 30 day trial of v. 12 to check it out, donít do it. I owned and was using C1 v. 10 and decided to check out v. 11 a few weeks ago, so I downloaded what Phase One advertised was a free trial copy for 30 days. I tried it and didnít see any justification for spending the money on that upgrade. However, when I went to start using my copy of v. 10 again, I could no longer open my Catalog. The way Capture One is configured, once the Catalog is used with a newer version of Capture One, it no longer opens with earlier versions. I had no choice at that point but to pay the ďransomĒ of $105 to upgrade so I could again get back to work and use my Catalog. No warnings about this from Phase One, nothing. What an incredibly deceptive business practice. Tricking someone into believing they were offering a free trial. Of course, to add insult to injury, 6 weeks later, Phase releases yet another new version of C1. Free upgrade? No! Strict 30 day rule. Free upgrade only if you purchased within the last 30 days, even if they essentially forced you to buy the prior upgrade. Nice company to do business with.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: alatreille on November 30, 2018, 11:08:06 am
This is pretty normal for software developers to need to upgrade the database.

I'm currently running both 11.3.1 and 12.0.0 with no problems - but I work in sessions

A
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Rhossydd on November 30, 2018, 11:19:31 am
You don't have a back of your catalogue ?

A bit risky.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: hubell on November 30, 2018, 11:40:41 am
You don't have a back of your catalogue ?

A bit risky.

I do, but a lot of editing work was done from the time of the last backup and the decision to revert to v. 10 and skip the upgrade. Moreover, there was no explanation that I could just go use a prior backup of my Catalog. Phase should have provided some sort of warning and advice about the need for an up to date backup or a copy of the catalog to use for the trial copy of the new version. Instead, the system is rigged to force those who don't know better to pay the ransom and continue to work.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on November 30, 2018, 11:57:01 am
I am definately going to try it. But I definately will not be upgrading my catalogue to V12 until Iím certain I will be sticking to the upgrade.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Kiwi Paul on November 30, 2018, 12:31:24 pm
I upgraded to V12 but although it upgraded the Catalog I'm sure it made a backup of the old Catalog first.
After registering V12 you can't use V11 on the same computer as the licence gets transferred to V12 and V11 becomes a trial version.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: digitaldog on November 30, 2018, 01:11:56 pm
For anyone who has C1 v. 11 or prior versions and might be thinking of downloading a 30 day trial of v. 12 to check it out, donít do it. I owned and was using C1 v. 10 and decided to check out v. 11 a few weeks ago, so I downloaded what Phase One advertised was a free trial copy for 30 days. I tried it and didnít see any justification for spending the money on that upgrade. However, when I went to start using my copy of v. 10 again, I could no longer open my Catalog. The way Capture One is configured, once the Catalog is used with a newer version of Capture One, it no longer opens with earlier versions. I had no choice at that point but to pay the ďransomĒ of $105 to upgrade so I could again get back to work and use my Catalog. No warnings about this from Phase One, nothing. What an incredibly deceptive business practice. Tricking someone into believing they were offering a free trial. Of course, to add insult to injury, 6 weeks later, Phase releases yet another new version of C1. Free upgrade? No! Strict 30 day rule. Free upgrade only if you purchased within the last 30 days, even if they essentially forced you to buy the prior upgrade. Nice company to do business with.
So the the software didn't warn you it was going to update the catalog (an indication that earlier versions wouldnít deal with the upgraded catalog)? If so, that indeed is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Manoli on November 30, 2018, 01:28:52 pm
So the the software didn't warn you it was going to update the catalog (an indication that earlier versions wouldnít deal with the upgraded catalog)? If so, that indeed is unacceptable.

... and Lightroom does ?

Got sympathy for the OP but it's not unreasonable for Phase to expect that their users would be somewhat computer savvy. Performing a full backup before any upgrade is one of the first 'best practice' lessons taught.

Something akin to brushing your teeth before you go to bed ...

Anyway, it's a moot point 'cos CaptireOne doesn't install OVER the previous installation, but performs its own clean install.  I only use sessions, so I cant check but I'm pretty darn sure the install program would have made a backup copy of the previous catalog somewhere ...
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: digitaldog on November 30, 2018, 01:31:45 pm
... and Lightroom does ?
Yes, it does thanks for asking. AND it upgrades while keeping the OLD catalog intact:
When you upgrade to a new version of Lightroom and open a catalog from an older version, Lightroom upgrades the catalog automatically. The old catalog remains untouched. The new, updated catalog contains all of the metadata associated with the previous catalog and photos.
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/catalog-faq-lightroom.html
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: digitaldog on November 30, 2018, 01:34:39 pm
...Got sympathy for the OP but it's not unreasonable for Phase to expect that their users would be somewhat computer savvy.
It's not unreasonable for Phase to pop a warning dialog and inform the user either. Hardly big engineering!  ;)
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: IanSeward on November 30, 2018, 01:37:15 pm
I upgraded to V12 but although it upgraded the Catalog I'm sure it made a backup of the old Catalog first.
After registering V12 you can't use V11 on the same computer as the licence gets transferred to V12 and V11 becomes a trial version.

Yes, it flashes up a message to that effect even with sessions. I guess the OP missed it. All he needs to do is go looking for the backup.

Ian
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Rhossydd on November 30, 2018, 01:41:15 pm
and on Windows 7 you get:
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Manoli on November 30, 2018, 01:42:00 pm
Yes, it does thanks for asking. AND it upgrades while keeping the OLD catalog intact:

Duh! Yes, my point exactly

" ... it's a moot point 'cos CaptireOne doesn't install OVER the previous installation, but performs its own clean install.  I only use sessions, so I cant check but I'm pretty darn sure the install program would have made a backup copy of the previous catalog somewhere ... "

Has the OP checked in his catalog directory for a backup copy ?

Edit:
Rhossyd has given us the answer above
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: digitaldog on November 30, 2018, 01:51:02 pm
Duh! Yes, my point exactly
Your point was what? I simply asked the OP to clarify (notice my IF statement). Then you asked about LR which now you know, doesn't overwrite the older catalog and indeed pops a warning.
Now the bit about transferring the license is IMHO silly but then folks can bitch and moan about subscriptions (in which if you cease subscribing, all modules expect Develop and Map's still work) even though one can upgrade to V6 of LR with a perpetual license.
Has the OP checked? Don't know. But you now know how LR handles this process.  ;)
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: StuartOnline on November 30, 2018, 01:54:13 pm
Just to mention I have both versions installed.  Version 11 and the trial version 12.
When installing version (trial) 12 it asked if I wanted to replace current version.
Of course I didn't.  Now I have both versions installed.

So no issues as far as I can tell having both versions.
You just can't open both at the same time.

Cheers!

Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: nemtom on November 30, 2018, 02:38:01 pm
This is false information. You will find the backup database intact under the Catalogs folder / package, so you can replace the upgraded version of the catalog database with the old version, which makes it possible to roll back to that previous version of Capture One with that database.
See a quick demo where I upgrade a Catalog from 11 to 12, and then roll back to 11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A071cM1xMY0

For anyone who has C1 v. 11 or prior versions and might be thinking of downloading a 30 day trial of v. 12 to check it out, donít do it. I owned and was using C1 v. 10 and decided to check out v. 11 a few weeks ago, so I downloaded what Phase One advertised was a free trial copy for 30 days. I tried it and didnít see any justification for spending the money on that upgrade. However, when I went to start using my copy of v. 10 again, I could no longer open my Catalog. The way Capture One is configured, once the Catalog is used with a newer version of Capture One, it no longer opens with earlier versions. I had no choice at that point but to pay the ďransomĒ of $105 to upgrade so I could again get back to work and use my Catalog. No warnings about this from Phase One, nothing. What an incredibly deceptive business practice. Tricking someone into believing they were offering a free trial. Of course, to add insult to injury, 6 weeks later, Phase releases yet another new version of C1. Free upgrade? No! Strict 30 day rule. Free upgrade only if you purchased within the last 30 days, even if they essentially forced you to buy the prior upgrade. Nice company to do business with.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: hubell on November 30, 2018, 03:01:02 pm
With Lightroom, I have a folder that contains my Lightroom Catalogs going back to V. 3. When a new Catalog is created, that's where it goes. I have no clue where the Capture One Catalogs go. More to the point, why when I clicked on C1 v. 10 after trying v. 11 would v. 10 not open the backed up copy of the v. 10 Catalog? When I click on v. 10, it says it can't open because "There are No Recent Catalogs or Sessions."
I should not have to open a Support Case to address an issue like this. Phase should include a very clear explanation for existing users of C1 that download a trial that states (1) what happens to your existing catalog when you start the free trial and (2) what you should do to revert to your prior version of C1 if you decide NOT to buy the new version.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Ray Harrison on November 30, 2018, 03:39:31 pm
With Lightroom, I have a folder that contains my Lightroom Catalogs going back to V. 3. When a new Catalog is created, that's where it goes. I have no clue where the Capture One Catalogs go. More to the point, why when I clicked on C1 v. 10 after trying v. 11 would v. 10 not open the backed up copy of the v. 10 Catalog? When I click on v. 10, it says it can't open because "There are No Recent Catalogs or Sessions."
I should not have to open a Support Case to address an issue like this. Phase should include a very clear explanation for existing users of C1 that download a trial that states (1) what happens to your existing catalog when you start the free trial and (2) what you should do to revert to your prior version of C1 if you decide NOT to buy the new version.

Certainly, Phase should be clear on what they're doing with data and throw in a (very easy to code) popup warning about what's about to happen. I generally create a new catalog when I install a new version, but either wasn't paying attention or they didn't specify on the Mac install for the 12 betas about the backup+overwrite. Thankfully, I've been burned enough on software over the years to not touch any new stuff without a backup first. I had my own separate one, plus, as it turns out, Phase's own catalog backup, so I was good.

For your catalog backup location, it is in your general preferences tab. Are you able to get a refund?
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Rhossydd on November 30, 2018, 03:58:03 pm
Certainly, Phase should be clear on what they're doing with data and throw in a (very easy to code) popup warning about what's about to happen.
They do. I posted the screen shot above.

Sorry, but the OP's issue is just user error, nothing terrible is being done by Phase One here.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Ray Harrison on November 30, 2018, 04:59:32 pm
They do. I posted the screen shot above.

Sorry, but the OP's issue is just user error, nothing terrible is being done by Phase One here.

I'm not suggesting they are doing anything terrible, merely relating my particular experience, albeit with beta on my machine. I am saying two things: (1) I didn't see such a message with the first beta install on my Mac (I'm not surprised - it's a beta - and I'm also not ignoring my own pilot error as I may have missed it for whatever reason - happens to me all the time  :)) and (2) Do backups before moving to something new. And maybe really three things -  (3) understand the tools we use more - for example, where in settings the backup directory is listed as that could have potentially saved the OP some money.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: jeremyrh on November 30, 2018, 05:13:57 pm
They do. I posted the screen shot above.

Sorry, but the OP's issue is just user error, nothing terrible is being done by Phase One here.

This. The whole discussion is moot because the window you posted is displayed for Windows and Mac.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Christopher on November 30, 2018, 06:22:38 pm
Funny, posting a warning about something which clearly is a user error, to begin with. I also don't get why it should be a problem, one should always have a current backup!
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: hubell on December 01, 2018, 11:52:51 am
Funny, posting a warning about something which clearly is a user error, to begin with. I also don't get why it should be a problem, one should always have a current backup!
s

A few points.
1. Blaming the customer? Good businesses in the US donít do that. Try to learn that lesson. Itís invaluable.
2. I have two back ups, one on site and one off site. That was NOT the issue. I had no idea where the catalogs for Capture One were stored. The location of Catalogs in Capture One is not obvious, at least to me, as it is with Lightroom.
3. If a v. 10 compatible Catalog was created as a backup when I opened v. 11, which created a new Catalog that was just compatible with v. 11, I would have thought that the v. 10 backup Catalog would have opened when I clicked on v. 10 to use v. 10. This may all be clear to someone with a deeper understanding of whatís going on under the hood with C1, but many of us donít and  donít want to learn. We are photographers who want user friendly software and hardware.
4. This could easily have been averted with a clear warning, or, if you donít like warnings, an ďexplanationĒ: ďIf you have have downloaded this software pursuant to our 30-day trial and you are currently running a prior version of Capture One, a new Catalog will be created when you open v.11. This Catalog will not be compatible with prior versions of Capture 1. If you should decide not to purchase v. 11 or you want to use your prior version of C1 in the future for whatever reason, you will need to follow these steps. [Clear Explanation]
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Christopher on December 01, 2018, 12:00:55 pm
IĎm not blaming my customers, as I wouldnít do that wherever they are. Well not openly.

However, to me your just a normal user and not my customer. So Iím still sticking to the point that while Phase One might improve the whole backup thing, itís not as bad as your thread title and first most make it out to be. Otherwise there would be slot more complaints.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Rhossydd on December 01, 2018, 12:55:36 pm
4. This could easily have been averted with a clear warning,
Maybe it could have been averted if you had read the warning and understood it.
Title: Re: Capture One V. 12: Don't "Try It"
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on December 01, 2018, 01:23:11 pm
This thread is getting - no, has already become - silly. It's plainly perfectly safe to "try" C1v12 and the use of the word "ransom" in the first post was obviously wrong.

Enough.

Jeremy