Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Other Raw Converters => Topic started by: jeremyrh on November 06, 2018, 08:50:20 am

Title: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: jeremyrh on November 06, 2018, 08:50:20 am
While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast.  Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?

(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on November 06, 2018, 09:19:13 am
While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast.  Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?

(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)

UI is user configurable so depends on you.

Best noise reduction in PRIME although it is slow, not really an issue, select the photos you want to export and go get a coffee :-)

Best lens corrections. DXO profile the lens in their optical labs. With lenses designed for computer correction they can often provide increased fov with wide angle lenses. Embedded raw file correction is same as quick & dirty jpg in camera correction and usually involve a crop to produce the lenses quoted focal length/fov.

Very easy to get a technically correct image with minimum user input as auto correction is one of DXO-PL's foundations.

Biggest drawback with DXO-PL used to be its lack of local adjustment. Now with UPoint technology they have a competent local adjustment capability. UPoint works very well and is a pleasure to use.

However, if you need a dam look elsewhere. :-)

Ian
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Zen8 on November 06, 2018, 02:27:54 pm
I have Photolab 1. I got it for prime and as a LR replacement if I drop the plan. I don't use it as much as I thought I would. As an LR plug-in it does not retain LR edits. There is no DAM but my biggest complaint is it does not even have a stack to show what adjustments you made. Prime is very good for the tougher NR jobs. Lens sharpness tends to over-sharpen. People rave about ClearView but you can do the same with LR's Dehaze.       

With version 2 they added the use of DCP files and claim Prime is better. They added a photo library which is not a DAM, just a rating system. As stated it is geared towards little user intervention. I didn't update.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: jeremyrh on November 07, 2018, 08:12:40 am
Thanks - I think my feeling is similar to yours - some nice features but not sure it's a comprehensive work horse.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: rdonson on November 08, 2018, 11:33:33 am
Forget DxO if you've got a Fuji with X-Trans sensor.  They are strictly a Bayer sensor shop.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: kirkt on November 08, 2018, 12:13:03 pm
Forget DxO if you've got a Fuji with X-Trans sensor.  They are strictly a Bayer sensor shop.

They do not support the GFX platform either, which is a Bayer sensor.

Kirk
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: t6b9p on November 09, 2018, 05:07:19 pm
DXO limited to aRGB output. Not a problem unless you prefer ProPhotoRGB.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: D White on November 13, 2018, 11:49:21 am
I recently had a trial download.

I am very happy with the workflow and output of LR but for some jaggy edge artifacts that can show along straight high contrast edges.

The DxO did not display these edge artifacts but I was also no where near reproducing my "look" with it. I wanted to really work with it but I found the program very slow and would give a 30 sec spinning beach ball every time I changed windows back and forth. Very unworkable. I have an iMac Pro so processing power is not the issue.

Their support left me for dead no matter how many times I tried. Meanwhile the trial period ended. I would not recommend purchasing their products with this functionality and support.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Stephen G on November 14, 2018, 08:46:06 am
I've been a user of DxO since Optics Pro version 3, I think. I tend to skip versions so it's unlikely that I'll be upgrading my current Photolab 1 to version 2. I use it as an alternative to LR. I can usually get what I want in LR, but sometimes I switch to DxO to give myself a different starting point.

There are somethings it does very well:
Lens corrections for vignetting and distortion are excellent
Capture sharpening is usually excellent. Has been for my lenses and camera bodies. Have seen some sample RAWs where the DxO sharpening was atrocious.
Highlight recovery, if not blown too far, is excellent. LR is better at extreme recovery
Noise reduction really great too. I tend not to use PRIME, as I don't like the look it generates, and I don't shoot much extreme ISO stuff anyway.
I like some of the film and grain simulations too.
I also like how it can retain variation and detail in highly saturated colours. It obviously has to desaturate to achieve this, but the control of the process is good.

Photolab 2's support for dcp profiles is something I'm keen to test, but haven't gotten around to just yet. Might make it easier to get one's familiar 'look' in DxO.

Can't comment about performance on Mac. I'm on Windows and DxO has always behaved itself. Output processing has always been slow, but steadily improved over the years.

DxO can certainly output a ProPhotoRGB file, but this will be limited initially by its internal working space. I've heard that the internal working space is AdobeRGB / something similar to AdobeRGB, but I've never seen it clearly stated anywhere. Anyone got a reference for this? 
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: t6b9p on November 18, 2018, 12:17:21 pm
It will output ProPhotoRGB but it has already been restricted by processing in aRGB. Kind of like processing in sRGB the outputting an aRGB file for printing...not much point. Will see if I can find the reference.

Here's one Northlight Images (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/dxo-optics-pro-v10-review/)

and newer Ver 12 (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/dxo-photolab-review/)

Not direct from DXO but at least a pretty respected source.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Zen8 on November 18, 2018, 08:08:22 pm
Thanks for the link. I thought ClearView was pretty good until I learned that I can do the same with LR's DaHaze. 
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on November 23, 2018, 11:43:44 am
Thanks for the link. I thought ClearView was pretty good until I learned that I can do the same with LR's DaHaze.

Interestingly DXO came out with Clearview first and everyone went "meh" then LR added dehaze and it was the tool to have :-)

Ian
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on November 23, 2018, 11:46:13 am
While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast.  Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?

(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)

In case you are interested DXO-PL2 is on sale at 50% off this weekend:

https://www.rlvision.com/flashren/about.php

A bargain for the PRIME noise reduction and best lens corrections.

Ian
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Box Brownie on November 23, 2018, 02:22:20 pm
In case you are interested DXO-PL2 is on sale at 50% off this weekend:

https://www.rlvision.com/flashren/about.php

A bargain for the PRIME noise reduction and best lens corrections.

Ian

DxO have the 50% Black Friday on their own website until 26th November ;) 

PS Not sure about Ian's linked site as I cannot see mention of DxO or any referer linky there so....???
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: rdonson on November 23, 2018, 05:59:38 pm
https://nikcollection.dxo.com
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on November 26, 2018, 02:47:40 pm
DxO have the 50% Black Friday on their own website until 26th November ;) 

PS Not sure about Ian's linked site as I cannot see mention of DxO or any referer linky there so....???
Doh!!  Copy and paste fail!

https://www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/

Ian
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 10, 2018, 11:57:22 pm
2.1 is supposed to support the Z7, but it can't seem to be able to open my lossless compressed 14 bits files...

Globally my view is that, with U-Point DxO, is now the most powerful raw converter on the market.
- best optical correction and initial "automatic" processing of images
- best noise reduction
- best local retouching capability

The only issue I still have with it is that I tend to like the colors produced by C1 pro a bit more, especially for my Nikon files.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: jeremyrh on December 11, 2018, 02:41:59 am
2.1 is supposed to support the Z7, but it can't seem to be able to open my lossless compressed 14 bits files...

Strange - it opened mine. Now that C1 has woken up I decided to stick with it despite some attractions   Another UI to learn is too much!!(not to mention the price ...)
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 11, 2018, 03:58:50 am
Strange - it opened mine. Now that C1 has woken up I decided to stick with it despite some attractions   Another UI to learn is too much!!(not to mention the price ...)

Ah really? Very strange indeed. I'll have to look into this.

Thanks for the feedback.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: jeremyrh on December 11, 2018, 08:08:06 am
Ah really? Very strange indeed. I'll have to look into this.

Thanks for the feedback.

Cheers,
Bernard

Sorry! sorry! sorry!!  Don't know what I was smoking when I typed my reply. It didn't open my files at all. Z7 support was announced for December but I didn't check if it arrived!!
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 11, 2018, 09:04:58 am
Sorry! sorry! sorry!!  Don't know what I was smoking when I typed my reply. It didn't open my files at all. Z7 support was announced for December but I didn't check if it arrived!!

ok, no worries, at least I know I am not crazy... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: fdisilvestro on December 12, 2018, 08:36:21 pm
It would be interesting to see if DXO will create its own lens profiles for the Nikon S Lenses (Nikon Z) or if they will use the lens correction data embedded in the raw file.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 13, 2018, 02:37:22 am
It would be interesting to see if DXO will create its own lens profiles for the Nikon S Lenses (Nikon Z) or if they will use the lens correction data embedded in the raw file.

In fact 2.1 is supposed to support the Z7 and it now works after I rebooted my Mac, very strange.

Only the 24-70 f4 S seems to have a profile from what I can see.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 18, 2019, 09:36:34 pm
As I posted in a Nikon thread elsewhere, I love the colors and look I am getting for Z7 files with DxO PL 2.2.

This has become a very impressive and mature tool, possibly the best raw converter out there.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Lightsmith on April 19, 2019, 01:41:30 pm
With Photo Lab there is no function to resize and image except by exporting it. One of my first steps after opening a converted RAW file is to resize it so I am not working with extra pixels that are not needed for the final print(s). I also will take an image and size if for a print and then size it again  for a large Web file and size it again (go back to original file each time within the editor) for a small Web image file. This is a simple and quick process in Photoshop to create the different resolution files which includes different levels of sharpening on each one.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Chairman Bill on April 20, 2019, 03:37:51 am
I've been playing with the trial version for a couple of days. I tend to process my stuff with Nik programs anyway, so thought it might be a good move, but so far I'm struggling with the UI compared to Capture One. The biggest issue is highlight recovery - simple in Capture One, but in Photolab it seems I have to reduce exposure right down & then try to recover the shadows & mid-tones. Doesn't seem to work very intuitively or very well. Maybe I'm missing something.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Box Brownie on April 21, 2019, 07:39:19 am
I've been playing with the trial version for a couple of days. I tend to process my stuff with Nik programs anyway, so thought it might be a good move, but so far I'm struggling with the UI compared to Capture One. The biggest issue is highlight recovery - simple in Capture One, but in Photolab it seems I have to reduce exposure right down & then try to recover the shadows & mid-tones. Doesn't seem to work very intuitively or very well. Maybe I'm missing something.

I am still coming to grips/learning DxO PL2 but did you use and/or try the Smart Lighting and/or Selective Tone (as they refer to it/them)?


DxO online manual page (http://help-photolab.dxo.com/en/histogram-2$DxO%20Smart%20lighting)

Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on June 03, 2019, 08:21:55 am
While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast.  Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?

(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)

There is a special offer on DXO-Photolab 2 at the moment for those interested.  $89 / 69 for the Elite edition.
https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2019/06/dxo-deal.html

Ian
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Dave Gurtcheff on October 14, 2019, 03:02:00 pm
I am an 82 year old amateur. My more recent work was done with a Sony A7R II. I used mostly DXO to convert raw images and apply lens corrections. In December, I acquired a Fuji GFX 50R with 3 lenses. I make big prints (20"x30" with Sony, and 24"x32" with the Fuji).  My present work flow for Fugi RAF files is slow and cumbersome: Down load the day's shoot to my PC. Batch Convert in DNG converter. Delete the RAF files to save space, bring the batch processed DNGs into Bridge, select the ones I want to work on. Open Photoshop, and using their Camera Raw, process them (it automatically applies "cooked in" Fuji lens corrections).  I then  finish retouching etc in Photoshop, and print from Photoshop. I am wondering if Photolab 2  will directly process RAF files, and simplify my work flow, by eliminating the DNG conversion. Will it also allow ACR type corrections during the conversions, such as levels, curves, saturation? Thanks in advance.The ACR version I use is CS6 (not the subscription version, which does not support Fuji RAF )
Dave G in NJ
www.modernpictorials.com
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Dave Gurtcheff on October 20, 2019, 09:14:41 pm
I wil answer my own question:


EDIT!!! I purchased DXO Photolab 2 and it works beautifully on GFX50R files (my 23mm lens and 32-64mm lens, but not yet my 100-200 lens ). The interface is the same as I am used to from my experience of many years with DXO Optics Pro. I plan to use DXO Photolab to develop my raw RAF files, but will still probably make final tweaks in Photoshop before printing. I have the free version of Capture 1 Express for Fuji, but I just cannot use it. I lose files in it not knowing where the program stuck them, and also have problems opening raw files because I cannot find them! (Senior Citizen thing!!)
Thanks all
Dave in NJ
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: bwana on October 21, 2019, 08:04:28 am
I find it does the best job for my m4/3 files. The have a more natural and smoother look than LR Demosaicizing
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: digitaldog on October 23, 2019, 03:00:37 pm
Looks like Version 3 is out, interesting video showing the new features here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=188&v=OKqTG7BmFJc
The HLS is pretty sweet.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Garnick on October 25, 2019, 11:37:36 am
Looks like Version 3 is out, interesting video showing the new features here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=188&v=OKqTG7BmFJc
The HLS is pretty sweet.

Andrew,

Other than the topic in this thread (RAW Conversion), how would you assess the overall app as an everyday workflow with various image types etc.?  I have no experienced with the app, but I do intend to download the trial version and give it a road test.  And of course this question pertains to all who have contributed to this thread as well.  :) 
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: digitaldog on October 25, 2019, 11:51:45 am
Haven't tried V3. Not sure I'll upgrade. And it's not my everyday raw converter but I will say that NR and lens correction is very impressive.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Garnick on October 25, 2019, 02:17:22 pm
Haven't tried V3. Not sure I'll upgrade. And it's not my everyday raw converter but I will say that NR and lens correction is very impressive.

I would have been very surprised to find that IS your everyday raw converter, but I do appreciate your thoughts on NR and lens correction.

Thank you  :)  8)
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: RW_Hendricks on October 30, 2019, 08:50:23 pm
DxO PL 3 has been released.

I find the perspective correction features to be superb. I have used them since PL 1.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Dave Gurtcheff on October 31, 2019, 01:32:18 pm
I just used Photo Lab 2 and it DOES now "develop"  Fuji GFX RAF files. I am very pleased with the results. Here are two GFX 50R shots. 23mm lens ISO 400 about f13.
Dave in NJ
(http://)
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Dave Gurtcheff on October 31, 2019, 01:35:01 pm
Sorry- I could not figure out how to insert photos.
Dave
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: geneo on November 09, 2019, 10:40:44 pm
Their feature upgrade prices seem steep to me for what you get. I wonder whether/how long they support previous versions after they release a feature upgrade.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on November 10, 2019, 01:11:36 pm
Their feature upgrade prices seem steep to me for what you get. I wonder whether/how long they support previous versions after they release a feature upgrade.

It is normal practice for most software companies, now that a new version is released, then it is no longer supported.  They certainly wouldn't add new cameras for instance.  They have however, released an update for PL2 a few days ago although if you are using PL2 you have probably been notified if you have the check for new versions option ticked.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: geneo on November 10, 2019, 03:05:19 pm
It is normal practice for most software companies, now that a new version is released, then it is no longer supported.  They certainly wouldn't add new cameras for instance.  They have however, released an update for PL2 a few days ago although if you are using PL2 you have probably been notified if you have the check for new versions option ticked.

Yes I know software release practices, believe me :D  But this is such an insignifcant upgrade for $69 IMO, and so soon.

I am up-to-date on 2 thanks, but that has no bearing.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on November 11, 2019, 08:57:25 am
Yes I know software release practices, believe me :D  But this is such an insignifcant upgrade for $69 IMO, and so soon.

I am up-to-date on 2 thanks, but that has no bearing.

It is fairly standard to skip alternate yearly upgrades and that's great you save money.  If the upgrade contains anything that is of interest to you then that is great but it costs you money :-)

The point is you can't really lose :-)

For me the improvements in local edits having a layer opacity, being able to have a list of local edits, able to invert masks is something I wanted, great for me, not so much for you :-)

With local edits you often have several adjustments combined, setting the initial layer opacity to 70% allows you to quickly make adjustments and then vary the intensity of those adjustments both up and down.  This is how I work in C1Pro and I find it very effective. Layers with opacity adjustment and layer management is becoming a "must" for my raw editor, but it is all personal choice.  YMOV :-)

Ian
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Lightsmith on November 13, 2019, 04:20:43 pm
DXO is forcing its users to run Windows 10 with its PL3 release. They are the only company doing this. No issues with Windows 7 64-bit with Photoshop CC, or with Affinity or with Luminar or with ON1 or With Nikon's editors and viewers. We have been using PhotoLab but will no longer be doing so.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: IanSeward on November 14, 2019, 02:22:56 am
DXO is forcing its users to run Windows 10 with its PL3 release. They are the only company doing this. No issues with Windows 7 64-bit with Photoshop CC, or with Affinity or with Luminar or with ON1 or With Nikon's editors and viewers. We have been using PhotoLab but will no longer be doing so.

Yes, that's a personal choice as to which OS you want to use.  There was even someone over on DPReview forums claiming to be still running Win XP :-)  For most people the OS is just there to get to their programs; turn the computer on and click the icon for Word, PS, etc. I guess eventually the guy running Win XP will update to, for him, the dreadful Win 7.  All personal choices.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Larry451 on November 30, 2019, 11:55:44 am
greetings:   I'm on a macbook pro + nikonD7 & zeiss lenses  photoshop 2020  lightroom classic  +  nik collection + printing with, print-tool2.  shooting landscape closeup shots at IS0 100 or 400 max.  44" Z3200 printer / 24"x36"average  All this preamble to ask:  DX0 photolab 3  which edition?  essential or elite?
regards
Larry.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: RT on November 30, 2019, 08:29:13 pm
Elite is the way to go if you are planning on using it regularly.  The PRIME denoising and ClearViewPlus alone are worth the price difference. Like any software, DxO has its issues, but I like it's RAW conversion better than anything else and find it's interface fairly easy to use. I'm not a power post processor and only do the minimum processing necessary (in my view), so for me it works really well.  Others may need/want all the photoshop, etc. have tp offer.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Lightsmith on December 05, 2019, 05:34:13 pm
PhotoLab cannot import a Photoshop PSD file and the company is no longer supporting Windows 7. I am now using ON1 and Affinity instead.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Trufflehound on December 07, 2019, 02:32:03 pm
Elite is the way to go if you are planning on using it regularly.  The PRIME denoising and ClearViewPlus alone are worth the price difference. Like any software, DxO has its issues, but I like it's RAW conversion better than anything else and find it's interface fairly easy to use. I'm not a power post processor and only do the minimum processing necessary (in my view), so for me it works really well.  Others may need/want all the photoshop, etc. have tp offer.

Agree with RT, Elite is the way to go.  The RAW conversion and lens/camera modules are really good.  I use DXO for most processing, but I'm not a heavy duty processor.  I use Luminar when I need a little extra.
Title: Re: DxO PhotoLab 2 - any fans? detractors?
Post by: Mwestall on December 24, 2019, 09:40:12 am
DXO is forcing its users to run Windows 10 with its PL3 release. They are the only company doing this. No issues with Windows 7 64-bit with Photoshop CC, or with Affinity or with Luminar or with ON1 or With Nikon's editors and viewers. We have been using PhotoLab but will no longer be doing so.
That would be because Win7 is EOL as of January 2020 and developing for dead platforms is both expensive and involves backporting or disabling features which aren't supported in the current codebase.