Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Other Raw Converters => Topic started by: jeremyrh on November 06, 2018, 08:50:20 am
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While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast. Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?
(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)
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While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast. Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?
(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)
UI is user configurable so depends on you.
Best noise reduction in PRIME although it is slow, not really an issue, select the photos you want to export and go get a coffee :-)
Best lens corrections. DXO profile the lens in their optical labs. With lenses designed for computer correction they can often provide increased fov with wide angle lenses. Embedded raw file correction is same as quick & dirty jpg in camera correction and usually involve a crop to produce the lenses quoted focal length/fov.
Very easy to get a technically correct image with minimum user input as auto correction is one of DXO-PL's foundations.
Biggest drawback with DXO-PL used to be its lack of local adjustment. Now with UPoint technology they have a competent local adjustment capability. UPoint works very well and is a pleasure to use.
However, if you need a dam look elsewhere. :-)
Ian
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I have Photolab 1. I got it for prime and as a LR replacement if I drop the plan. I don't use it as much as I thought I would. As an LR plug-in it does not retain LR edits. There is no DAM but my biggest complaint is it does not even have a stack to show what adjustments you made. Prime is very good for the tougher NR jobs. Lens sharpness tends to over-sharpen. People rave about ClearView but you can do the same with LR's Dehaze.
With version 2 they added the use of DCP files and claim Prime is better. They added a photo library which is not a DAM, just a rating system. As stated it is geared towards little user intervention. I didn't update.
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Thanks - I think my feeling is similar to yours - some nice features but not sure it's a comprehensive work horse.
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Forget DxO if you've got a Fuji with X-Trans sensor. They are strictly a Bayer sensor shop.
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Forget DxO if you've got a Fuji with X-Trans sensor. They are strictly a Bayer sensor shop.
They do not support the GFX platform either, which is a Bayer sensor.
Kirk
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DXO limited to aRGB output. Not a problem unless you prefer ProPhotoRGB.
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I recently had a trial download.
I am very happy with the workflow and output of LR but for some jaggy edge artifacts that can show along straight high contrast edges.
The DxO did not display these edge artifacts but I was also no where near reproducing my "look" with it. I wanted to really work with it but I found the program very slow and would give a 30 sec spinning beach ball every time I changed windows back and forth. Very unworkable. I have an iMac Pro so processing power is not the issue.
Their support left me for dead no matter how many times I tried. Meanwhile the trial period ended. I would not recommend purchasing their products with this functionality and support.
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I've been a user of DxO since Optics Pro version 3, I think. I tend to skip versions so it's unlikely that I'll be upgrading my current Photolab 1 to version 2. I use it as an alternative to LR. I can usually get what I want in LR, but sometimes I switch to DxO to give myself a different starting point.
There are somethings it does very well:
Lens corrections for vignetting and distortion are excellent
Capture sharpening is usually excellent. Has been for my lenses and camera bodies. Have seen some sample RAWs where the DxO sharpening was atrocious.
Highlight recovery, if not blown too far, is excellent. LR is better at extreme recovery
Noise reduction really great too. I tend not to use PRIME, as I don't like the look it generates, and I don't shoot much extreme ISO stuff anyway.
I like some of the film and grain simulations too.
I also like how it can retain variation and detail in highly saturated colours. It obviously has to desaturate to achieve this, but the control of the process is good.
Photolab 2's support for dcp profiles is something I'm keen to test, but haven't gotten around to just yet. Might make it easier to get one's familiar 'look' in DxO.
Can't comment about performance on Mac. I'm on Windows and DxO has always behaved itself. Output processing has always been slow, but steadily improved over the years.
DxO can certainly output a ProPhotoRGB file, but this will be limited initially by its internal working space. I've heard that the internal working space is AdobeRGB / something similar to AdobeRGB, but I've never seen it clearly stated anywhere. Anyone got a reference for this?
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It will output ProPhotoRGB but it has already been restricted by processing in aRGB. Kind of like processing in sRGB the outputting an aRGB file for printing...not much point. Will see if I can find the reference.
Here's one Northlight Images (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/dxo-optics-pro-v10-review/)
and newer Ver 12 (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/dxo-photolab-review/)
Not direct from DXO but at least a pretty respected source.
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Thanks for the link. I thought ClearView was pretty good until I learned that I can do the same with LR's DaHaze.
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Thanks for the link. I thought ClearView was pretty good until I learned that I can do the same with LR's DaHaze.
Interestingly DXO came out with Clearview first and everyone went "meh" then LR added dehaze and it was the tool to have :-)
Ian
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While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast. Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?
(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)
In case you are interested DXO-PL2 is on sale at 50% off this weekend:
https://www.rlvision.com/flashren/about.php
A bargain for the PRIME noise reduction and best lens corrections.
Ian
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In case you are interested DXO-PL2 is on sale at 50% off this weekend:
https://www.rlvision.com/flashren/about.php
A bargain for the PRIME noise reduction and best lens corrections.
Ian
DxO have the 50% Black Friday on their own website until 26th November ;)
PS Not sure about Ian's linked site as I cannot see mention of DxO or any referer linky there so....???
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https://nikcollection.dxo.com
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DxO have the 50% Black Friday on their own website until 26th November ;)
PS Not sure about Ian's linked site as I cannot see mention of DxO or any referer linky there so....???
Doh!! Copy and paste fail!
https://www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/
Ian
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2.1 is supposed to support the Z7, but it can't seem to be able to open my lossless compressed 14 bits files...
Globally my view is that, with U-Point DxO, is now the most powerful raw converter on the market.
- best optical correction and initial "automatic" processing of images
- best noise reduction
- best local retouching capability
The only issue I still have with it is that I tend to like the colors produced by C1 pro a bit more, especially for my Nikon files.
Cheers,
Bernard
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2.1 is supposed to support the Z7, but it can't seem to be able to open my lossless compressed 14 bits files...
Strange - it opened mine. Now that C1 has woken up I decided to stick with it despite some attractions Another UI to learn is too much!!(not to mention the price ...)
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Strange - it opened mine. Now that C1 has woken up I decided to stick with it despite some attractions Another UI to learn is too much!!(not to mention the price ...)
Ah really? Very strange indeed. I'll have to look into this.
Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Ah really? Very strange indeed. I'll have to look into this.
Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers,
Bernard
Sorry! sorry! sorry!! Don't know what I was smoking when I typed my reply. It didn't open my files at all. Z7 support was announced for December but I didn't check if it arrived!!
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Sorry! sorry! sorry!! Don't know what I was smoking when I typed my reply. It didn't open my files at all. Z7 support was announced for December but I didn't check if it arrived!!
ok, no worries, at least I know I am not crazy... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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It would be interesting to see if DXO will create its own lens profiles for the Nikon S Lenses (Nikon Z) or if they will use the lens correction data embedded in the raw file.
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It would be interesting to see if DXO will create its own lens profiles for the Nikon S Lenses (Nikon Z) or if they will use the lens correction data embedded in the raw file.
In fact 2.1 is supposed to support the Z7 and it now works after I rebooted my Mac, very strange.
Only the 24-70 f4 S seems to have a profile from what I can see.
Cheers,
Bernard
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As I posted in a Nikon thread elsewhere, I love the colors and look I am getting for Z7 files with DxO PL 2.2.
This has become a very impressive and mature tool, possibly the best raw converter out there.
Cheers,
Bernard
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With Photo Lab there is no function to resize and image except by exporting it. One of my first steps after opening a converted RAW file is to resize it so I am not working with extra pixels that are not needed for the final print(s). I also will take an image and size if for a print and then size it again for a large Web file and size it again (go back to original file each time within the editor) for a small Web image file. This is a simple and quick process in Photoshop to create the different resolution files which includes different levels of sharpening on each one.
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I've been playing with the trial version for a couple of days. I tend to process my stuff with Nik programs anyway, so thought it might be a good move, but so far I'm struggling with the UI compared to Capture One. The biggest issue is highlight recovery - simple in Capture One, but in Photolab it seems I have to reduce exposure right down & then try to recover the shadows & mid-tones. Doesn't seem to work very intuitively or very well. Maybe I'm missing something.
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I've been playing with the trial version for a couple of days. I tend to process my stuff with Nik programs anyway, so thought it might be a good move, but so far I'm struggling with the UI compared to Capture One. The biggest issue is highlight recovery - simple in Capture One, but in Photolab it seems I have to reduce exposure right down & then try to recover the shadows & mid-tones. Doesn't seem to work very intuitively or very well. Maybe I'm missing something.
I am still coming to grips/learning DxO PL2 but did you use and/or try the Smart Lighting and/or Selective Tone (as they refer to it/them)?
DxO online manual page (http://help-photolab.dxo.com/en/histogram-2$DxO%20Smart%20lighting)
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While wondering what to do with the money I may not spend on a C1 upgrade I came across the DxO website. I like the U-point interface, and the Nik plugins like Silver Efex and Viveza, but the general UI looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast. Is it a viable replacement for Lightroom and CaptureOne, or will I buy it and then not have the energy(*) to master it?
(*) I recognise this is hard for you to judge :-)
There is a special offer on DXO-Photolab 2 at the moment for those interested. $89 / £69 for the Elite edition.
https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2019/06/dxo-deal.html
Ian
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I am an 82 year old amateur. My more recent work was done with a Sony A7R II. I used mostly DXO to convert raw images and apply lens corrections. In December, I acquired a Fuji GFX 50R with 3 lenses. I make big prints (20"x30" with Sony, and 24"x32" with the Fuji). My present work flow for Fugi RAF files is slow and cumbersome: Down load the day's shoot to my PC. Batch Convert in DNG converter. Delete the RAF files to save space, bring the batch processed DNGs into Bridge, select the ones I want to work on. Open Photoshop, and using their Camera Raw, process them (it automatically applies "cooked in" Fuji lens corrections). I then finish retouching etc in Photoshop, and print from Photoshop. I am wondering if Photolab 2 will directly process RAF files, and simplify my work flow, by eliminating the DNG conversion. Will it also allow ACR type corrections during the conversions, such as levels, curves, saturation? Thanks in advance.The ACR version I use is CS6 (not the subscription version, which does not support Fuji RAF )
Dave G in NJ
www.modernpictorials.com
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I wil answer my own question:
EDIT!!! I purchased DXO Photolab 2 and it works beautifully on GFX50R files (my 23mm lens and 32-64mm lens, but not yet my 100-200 lens ). The interface is the same as I am used to from my experience of many years with DXO Optics Pro. I plan to use DXO Photolab to develop my raw RAF files, but will still probably make final tweaks in Photoshop before printing. I have the free version of Capture 1 Express for Fuji, but I just cannot use it. I lose files in it not knowing where the program stuck them, and also have problems opening raw files because I cannot find them! (Senior Citizen thing!!)
Thanks all
Dave in NJ
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I find it does the best job for my m4/3 files. The have a more natural and smoother look than LR Demosaicizing
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Looks like Version 3 is out, interesting video showing the new features here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=188&v=OKqTG7BmFJc
The HLS is pretty sweet.
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Looks like Version 3 is out, interesting video showing the new features here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=188&v=OKqTG7BmFJc
The HLS is pretty sweet.
Andrew,
Other than the topic in this thread (RAW Conversion), how would you assess the overall app as an everyday workflow with various image types etc.? I have no experienced with the app, but I do intend to download the trial version and give it a road test. And of course this question pertains to all who have contributed to this thread as well. :)
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Haven't tried V3. Not sure I'll upgrade. And it's not my everyday raw converter but I will say that NR and lens correction is very impressive.
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Haven't tried V3. Not sure I'll upgrade. And it's not my everyday raw converter but I will say that NR and lens correction is very impressive.
I would have been very surprised to find that IS your everyday raw converter, but I do appreciate your thoughts on NR and lens correction.
Thank you :) 8)
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DxO PL 3 has been released.
I find the perspective correction features to be superb. I have used them since PL 1.
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I just used Photo Lab 2 and it DOES now "develop" Fuji GFX RAF files. I am very pleased with the results. Here are two GFX 50R shots. 23mm lens ISO 400 about f13.
Dave in NJ
(http://)
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Sorry- I could not figure out how to insert photos.
Dave
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Their feature upgrade prices seem steep to me for what you get. I wonder whether/how long they support previous versions after they release a feature upgrade.
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Their feature upgrade prices seem steep to me for what you get. I wonder whether/how long they support previous versions after they release a feature upgrade.
It is normal practice for most software companies, now that a new version is released, then it is no longer supported. They certainly wouldn't add new cameras for instance. They have however, released an update for PL2 a few days ago although if you are using PL2 you have probably been notified if you have the check for new versions option ticked.
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It is normal practice for most software companies, now that a new version is released, then it is no longer supported. They certainly wouldn't add new cameras for instance. They have however, released an update for PL2 a few days ago although if you are using PL2 you have probably been notified if you have the check for new versions option ticked.
Yes I know software release practices, believe me :D But this is such an insignifcant upgrade for $69 IMO, and so soon.
I am up-to-date on 2 thanks, but that has no bearing.
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Yes I know software release practices, believe me :D But this is such an insignifcant upgrade for $69 IMO, and so soon.
I am up-to-date on 2 thanks, but that has no bearing.
It is fairly standard to skip alternate yearly upgrades and that's great you save money. If the upgrade contains anything that is of interest to you then that is great but it costs you money :-)
The point is you can't really lose :-)
For me the improvements in local edits having a layer opacity, being able to have a list of local edits, able to invert masks is something I wanted, great for me, not so much for you :-)
With local edits you often have several adjustments combined, setting the initial layer opacity to 70% allows you to quickly make adjustments and then vary the intensity of those adjustments both up and down. This is how I work in C1Pro and I find it very effective. Layers with opacity adjustment and layer management is becoming a "must" for my raw editor, but it is all personal choice. YMOV :-)
Ian
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DXO is forcing its users to run Windows 10 with its PL3 release. They are the only company doing this. No issues with Windows 7 64-bit with Photoshop CC, or with Affinity or with Luminar or with ON1 or With Nikon's editors and viewers. We have been using PhotoLab but will no longer be doing so.
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DXO is forcing its users to run Windows 10 with its PL3 release. They are the only company doing this. No issues with Windows 7 64-bit with Photoshop CC, or with Affinity or with Luminar or with ON1 or With Nikon's editors and viewers. We have been using PhotoLab but will no longer be doing so.
Yes, that's a personal choice as to which OS you want to use. There was even someone over on DPReview forums claiming to be still running Win XP :-) For most people the OS is just there to get to their programs; turn the computer on and click the icon for Word, PS, etc. I guess eventually the guy running Win XP will update to, for him, the dreadful Win 7. All personal choices.
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greetings: I'm on a macbook pro + nikonD7 & zeiss lenses photoshop 2020 lightroom classic + nik collection + printing with, print-tool2. shooting landscape closeup shots at IS0 100 or 400 max. 44" Z3200 printer / 24"x36"average All this preamble to ask: DX0 photolab 3 which edition? essential or elite?
regards
Larry.
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Elite is the way to go if you are planning on using it regularly. The PRIME denoising and ClearViewPlus alone are worth the price difference. Like any software, DxO has its issues, but I like it's RAW conversion better than anything else and find it's interface fairly easy to use. I'm not a power post processor and only do the minimum processing necessary (in my view), so for me it works really well. Others may need/want all the photoshop, etc. have tp offer.
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PhotoLab cannot import a Photoshop PSD file and the company is no longer supporting Windows 7. I am now using ON1 and Affinity instead.
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Elite is the way to go if you are planning on using it regularly. The PRIME denoising and ClearViewPlus alone are worth the price difference. Like any software, DxO has its issues, but I like it's RAW conversion better than anything else and find it's interface fairly easy to use. I'm not a power post processor and only do the minimum processing necessary (in my view), so for me it works really well. Others may need/want all the photoshop, etc. have tp offer.
Agree with RT, Elite is the way to go. The RAW conversion and lens/camera modules are really good. I use DXO for most processing, but I'm not a heavy duty processor. I use Luminar when I need a little extra.
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DXO is forcing its users to run Windows 10 with its PL3 release. They are the only company doing this. No issues with Windows 7 64-bit with Photoshop CC, or with Affinity or with Luminar or with ON1 or With Nikon's editors and viewers. We have been using PhotoLab but will no longer be doing so.
That would be because Win7 is EOL as of January 2020 and developing for dead platforms is both expensive and involves backporting or disabling features which aren't supported in the current codebase.