Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: Cornelius on October 12, 2018, 06:48:53 pm
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Hi there
I recently bought my first 4K monitor, an EIZO CG318. After setting up the screen I noticed to performance issues in Lightroom and Photoshop, when using the screen in a scaled HiDPI resolution. Therefore I also bought a used "new" MacPro 6.1 to replace/upgrade my MacPro 6.1 I have used during the last years. This because I thought my old MacPro with the D300 GPUs does not have enough power for the 4K screen. But after the migration I still have similar issues (which I do not have, when using the 4K screen with its native resolution, nor when using the old CG277 non 4K screen), but also some additional performance drops came up. Therefore I hope for some tips to speed my LR up again.
Here is my current configuration:
- MacPro 6.1 (late 2013) with 6-core CPU, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD and D700 FirePro GPU with the lates Mojave version
- Promise Thunderbolt RAID
- EIZO CG318 attached with Displayport, Dell U2410 attached with DisplayPort
- All Thunderbolt/DisplayPort devices are attached separately to the 3 Thunderbolt bus of the MacPro to avoid issues here
- Lates Adobe Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC versions
--> LR catalog incl. previews and 1:1 previews is located on the internal SSD, original RAW files are stored on the Promise Thunderbolt RAID.
So I still think, this is a very powerfull setup, which should not give my any performance issues.
Here are my issues I have all the time (independent from the screen resolution) and which weren't a problem prior the 4K screen.
- Lags when scrolling through the library grid. It's just not smooth anymore
- Huge lag when switching full screen mode (F-key) on and off
- Lags of 6-7seconds until LR jumps to the next picture when culling in full screen mode (F-key)
- Lags when switching moduls. Sometimes I see the OSX rainbow-ball for 5 or more seconds until LR switches modules.
All these problems get even worse, then switching the screen into a scaled HiDPI resolution to enlarge text, menus etc.
On top of the LR issues, also Photoshop gets quite slow in rendering filters, when the 4K screen is used in a scaled HiDPI resolution. As long as the screen stays on it's native resolution (4096x2160px) Photoshops does not show any performance drops.
Does anyone have any idea why my system gets so slow, Lightroom lags (especially in HiDPI resolutions) and what I can do to speed things up?
Based on Apples website, the MacPro 6.1 (and I damn use the most powerfull GPU version now) should be able to run 3 (!!) 4K displays. But my system (LR/PS) drops performance already with one 4K monitor. :-(
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In the performance tab in preferences there is a link at the bottom. How much free space does your drive have?
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html
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@ Zen8
I checked already the performance tips from Adobe. The strange thing is, the performance drop came after the upgrade to a more powerfull MacPro. :-/
Free disk space after the upgrade ist 650GB (from 1TB). Before I had around 100GB from 500GB left.
So this should not be the problem.
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I recently bought my first 4K monitor, an EIZO CG318. After setting up the screen I noticed to performance issues in Lightroom and Photoshop,
I think this is your problem. If LR suddenly has to manipulate and calculate a significantly larger number of display pixels, it will slow down, maybe a lot.
The amount that GPU acceleration helps on this issue is famously pretty negligible from the anecdotal evidence on Lula and my own experience. On my windows machine switching off GPU acceleration actually improves performance.
The best upgrade always seems to be a faster CPU if you've got enough memory and are using SSDs (which you have now).
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@ Rhossydd
Thanks, for your tip. I know that Lightroom mainly likes fast CPUs, so this is going to be the next step as soon as Apple announces the new MacPro's.
Until then, I need to figure out what I can do to get LR faster.
When working without fullscreen mode, LR works quite fluid and fine (except of the lags when switching modules).. what is a new issue I encounter since I migrated to the MacPro with more GPU power, is the lag when switching the fullscreen mode on (F-key). This is an issue independent from the screen size. I tried the full screen mode on a small 24 inch Dell screen. It's slow like hell. Jumping from one image to the next, takes up to 6 seconds. This is a behaviour I did not have prior the system migration on a 27 inch EIZO screen. Now I have it on all screen sizes (24, 27 and 31-4k). :-(
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what is a new issue I encounter since I migrated to the MacPro with more GPU power, is the lag when switching the fullscreen mode on (F-key).
Have you tried turning off GPU acceleration ?
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Yep, tried to turn off the GPU acceleration. Same lags within the fullscreen preview (F-key).
This really came up after the system migration to another MacPro with way more GPU power and SSD storage. Well, I can work with LR on the 4K monitor without this fullscreen preview mode, due to the gigantic size of the screen. Maybe I just need to adapt to this until I can upgrade the MacPro to the upcoming Pro's next year.
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Hi guys
I have to push this up again, because I still suffer from the extrem bad performance of LR.
In the meantime I did some more testings and still I have a really slow response time from Lightroom in these situations:
- Full Screen Mode with single image (F-key) // Activation and Deactivation takes up to 10 seconds, swichting to the next image (arrow key left/right) takes up to 10 seconds
- Using the overview (N-key) with 2 to 50 pictures // adding or deselecting images while using the overview mode is extremely slow. When you deselect an image, the new arrangement of the images lags like hell
- Using spot healing tool and the brush // the mouse itself lags ! :-(
I see this independently from the amount of attached screens and the screenresolution (used 24 inch, 27 inch and 31 inch with 4k). Dual and single screen attached to the computer.
Also independently from GPU acceleration on/off.
Also independently from catalog size and storage location of my digital negative files (external Thunderbolt RAID or internal SSD).
My hardware: MacPro (late 2013), 6-core 3.5Ghz, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM and D700 FirePro GPU with 6GB Memory
External Promise Thunderbolt RAID for RAW files with read/write speed of approx. 350-450MB/s.
Software: OSX Mojave (latest version), Adobe Lightroom CC Classic (latest version)
Checking the CPU and GPU load after using the full screen, overview mode or brush/spothealing I can not see a significant load on the GPU/GPU memory or the CPU. The load stays around 10-20% of maximum power.
So I would say, hardware can not be the bottle neck.
Also tried to reinstall Lightroom, tried with a fresh and nearly empty catalog (saved on the internal SSD) --> all the same. Performance stays horrible slow.
Does anyone have any idea? Yesterday evening I switched over to edit and cull pictures on my MacBook because it's faster and my MacPro.. 😳
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Are you syncing from this catalogue?
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@ John
No, sync is turned off. Also tried several catalogs (from 350k to just 20 pictures in them). Always the same slow performance.
Also face detection is turned off.
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In general i discovered that a faster harddisk contributes much.
I have a samsung 970 that makes the difference
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In general i discovered that a faster harddisk contributes much.
I have a samsung 970 that makes the difference
I don‘t think that the PCI SSD of the MacPro is the problem. but let me check the write/read levels when I‘m back at the studio. Had the same setup before, just with less powerfull GPUs, and never seen my performance issues. 😕
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Here are the speed tests from the MacPro SSD (storage location of the Lightroom catalog, previews, cache) and the Pegasus RAID (negative files).
I really can't imagine that this is the source of my performance problems.
The SSD from the refurbished MacPro (replacement of my older MacPro with the FirePro D300 GPUs) has even a higher wright/read speed then I had on the one before. And prior the migration I definitely not had this performance problems I can now see, even when I only use a small 24 inch screen with FullHD resolution and not the 4K 31inch EIZO.
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My hardware: MacPro (late 2013), 6-core 3.5Ghz, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM and D700 FirePro GPU with 6GB Memory
External Promise Thunderbolt RAID for RAW files with read/write speed of approx. 350-450MB/s.
I think you can rule out a shortage of compute cycles as the cause of the symptoms you are experiencing. I am running an almost identical configuration (D500 graphics processors instead of D700), and do not have any similar performance issues. Actually, I'm quite pleased with the performance of both Lightroom and Photoshop on my five-year-old machine.
Have you tried running Apple's hardware diagnostics suite? I've found these tests to be quite effective at identifying flaky components or internal connectivity problems. They should be performed with all external devices disconnected except a keyboard, mouse, single display, and, if you're using a wired network, Ethernet connection. If the machine passes all the tests, I would recommend that you attach your additional external devices one at a time, and check after each device is connected for the pathological behavior.
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I think you can rule out a shortage of compute cycles as the cause of the symptoms you are experiencing. I am running an almost identical configuration (D500 graphics processors instead of D700), and do not have any similar performance issues. Actually, I'm quite pleased with the performance of both Lightroom and Photoshop on my five-year-old machine.
Have you tried running Apple's hardware diagnostics suite? I've found these tests to be quite effective at identifying flaky components or internal connectivity problems. They should be performed with all external devices disconnected except a keyboard, mouse, single display, and, if you're using a wired network, Ethernet connection. If the machine passes all the tests, I would recommend that you attach your additional external devices one at a time, and check after each device is connected for the pathological behavior.
This was also my feeling. The system should have much more computing power than needed to run LR in a fluid way.
Where do I get the hardware test? Is it part of the recovery mode startup?
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Where do I get the hardware test? Is it part of the recovery mode startup?
Boot the machine while holding down the "D" key. (I'm assuming this is the method for launching the diagnostic tools regardless of the operating system locale.)
I don't know whether the following link will work outside North America, but here is an Apple support document describing the procedure (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731); I'm sure there is a similar document available from other Apple support sites.
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@ Chris Kern
I performed the Apple hardware tests with and without externen devices on my MacPro. Nothing found by the test.
No I also tried several Lightroom CC Classic versions. From 7.3, to 7.4 and the latest 7.5.
7.3 runs better (but still noch 100% fluid) compared to the other two versions. For the moment I keep 7.4, as I need some functions from this version.
What I also have seen, when I reduce the window size of Lightroom, at least the overview function in the library runs smoother. Full screen on the 4k monitore is not usable with any LR versions.
I really don't understand it. If the hardware would not have a enough power, I should see this in the menu meter stats for CPU/GPU load and memory load. But there, I don't have more than 30-40% usage.
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Reading your original post, it appears that your issue is due to your desire to use a display scale that is not “best for display” because you want larger text. For support on this you should check or contact EIZO Or simply use the default “best for display” resolution.
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Reading your original post, it appears that your issue is due to your desire to use a display scale that is not “best for display” because you want larger text. For support on this you should check or contact EIZO Or simply use the default “best for display” resolution.
I figured this out already.. It seems that the MacPro 2013 does not have enough GPU power to smoothly run a 31 inch 4K monitor with scaled resolution.
That's why I use the screen now in "best for display" which is the native resolution without scaling.
But my Lightroom issue did not disappear. In fact, Lightroom runs slow on all my 3 screen sizes (31, 27 and 24, where only the 31 is a 4k) in single monitore mode. Which means, the source can not be the display.
The slow performance in full screen and the overview mode of the library started after migrating the system from one MacPro to another one, using the OSX migration assistent.
Already deleted LR cache and preferences, which did not solve the problem.
Tried 3 different screen sizes, did not solve the problem.
Used dual and single monitor setups in all kind of combinations, did not solve the problem.
Apple hardware test does not show any hardware issue
Black Magic Disk Speedtest shows really high dis speed
CPU/GPU load statistic does not show high load, while using Lightroom
Tried LR 7.3, 7.4 and 7.5 without a significant difference
Now I'm shortly before a complete reinstallation of my whole system with a manual migration of the data to get a clean start. I'm just scared of the time needed to do this. :-/
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Now I'm shortly before a complete reinstallation of my whole system with a manual migration of the data to get a clean start. I'm just scared of the time needed to do this. :-/
Actually, that is probably not necessary, and, in any event, may not resolve your problem. To find the source of this kind of performance issue, it's best to proceed methodically, eliminating the possible causes of the problem one at a time.
To recap what we know at this time:
- You and I have virtually identical hardware. Lightroom runs fine on my computer and is very slow on yours. So we can rule out insufficient compute cycles.
- The Apple hardware diagnostics test suite did not identify any failed or flaky components in your computer. So we can rule out (at least provisionally) a hardware failure.
That suggests the problem you are experiencing is related to some difference between our two software environments.
One significant difference between our software environments is that that I am running MacOS 10.13 (the High Sierra release) and you are running MacOS 10.14 (the Mojave release).
Another is that I am using NEC monitors (one 27-inch and one 24-inch) and you are using a 31-inch EIZO monitor and a 24-inch Dell monitor.
At this point, the device driver for the EIZO strikes me as the software component that is the most suspicious. I recommend that you disconnect the EIZO from the computer and uninstall any EIZO software. Perform a cold restart of the computer with only the Dell monitor connected and see if the symptoms are still present.
It would be best not to change anything else until you have performed this test. If you try too many things simultaneously, it makes it more difficult to isolate the cause of this kind of problem.
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Anything that hopefully solves the issue is welcome. :)
As far as I know, EIZO monitors do not have a driver. So I never installed a driver which I can deinstall. The only software from EIZO I can deinstall is the ColorNavigator software for the hardware calibration of the screen.
I also googled for uninstall EIZO driver, but could not find any hints here..
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The only software from EIZO I can deinstall is the ColorNavigator software for the hardware calibration of the screen.
That package probably includes the device driver. So I would disconnect the EIZO monitor, uninstall the EIZO software, perform a cold restart of the computer with only the Dell monitor connected, and test the performance of Lightroom.
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That package probably includes the device driver. So I would disconnect the EIZO monitor, uninstall the EIZO software, perform a cold restart of the computer with only the Dell monitor connected, and test the performance of Lightroom.
👍🏻
I'll try that tomorrow morning (europe time ;) ) and give you a feedback.
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I can throw in another data point. I have essentially the same configuration: MacPro 6 core, 1Tb SSD, 64Gb, AMD D700 Graphics. I have 2 monitors connected. An Apple Thunderbolt Display (2560x1440) and a Dell 5K display (5120x2880). Both displays are set with resolution of "Default for the display", not scaled. Images and catalog on the internal SSD.
Until recently, I was happy with the performance of this system. After the recent updates to LR Classic CC 8.0 and MacOS Mojave, I am having the same problems. I don't know which update led to the performance issues.
Based on the feedback above about the display drivers, I did a quick test on my system. If I run Lightroom on the Apple Thunderbolt Display, I can hit "F" to view images full screen and switch between them using the cursor keys, and the images switch essentially instantly. This is with 20Mb Raw files with 1-1 previews.
If I drag Lightroom over to the 5K display, hit "F" and try to page through the same images, the performance drops to about 15 seconds to display each image. This is using the 1001, 1002, 1003, counting method so not scientific. But it is not useable for reviewing the images. Same thing for looking at images in Loupe mode, although they are slightly faster at about 10-12 seconds. Probably because they don't use quite as much screen space in that mode. Develop goes to about 18 seconds to switch an image. Basically, Lightroom is not useable on the 5K display.
Very disappointing.
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It would be valuable to get input from someone with a more recent iMac 4K and/or 5K. While LR may indeed be the culprit, I believe some suspicion might fall on the D700 video cards which, while they 'support' 4K, arrived on the scene somewhat before 4K became truly mainstream.
I have a similar MacPro with the D700s and the performance is only reasonable for 4K video and certainly does not give seamless playback at 24fps.
Chris
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Basically, Lightroom is not useable on the 5K display.
It is not surprising that a 2012 video card performs poorly on a 5K monitor. That's not LR's fault. The D700 Firepro graphics appears to be based on the AMD WD9000 chip. I believe the actual video card is the Radeon 7970. According to its spec sheet, it supports one 4K monitor. I'm surprised it runs a 5k monitor at all. Are you sure it is not downrezzing the output to 4K? If you go to the Apple drop down menu, click on About this Mac, and it will tell you what video card(s) you have. Then you can look up what screen resolutions it supports. Better yet, go to Settings, Display. Select scaled and it will list available resolutions.
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Apple has a support document that addresses the compatibility of high-resolution monitors (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206587) with its desktop and laptop products. There is another support document that specifically describes the monitor configurations supported by the 2013 Mac Pro (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202801).
Apple includes the device drivers for displays connected to or built-into its computers as part of their operating system. But monitors like my NECs and the original poster's EIZO, which support hardware color calibration, presumably also require specialized drivers which are supplied by the display manufacturer as part of an application software bundle.
If a particular version of that manufacturer-supplied software is incompatible with the display driver that is part of a particular version of Apple's operating system, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see severe performance degradation similar to what we're discussing here. That's a conjecture, but I think some sort of software incompatibility is more likely to be the cause of this kind of pathological behavior than any lack of hardware resources.
In any event, I rather doubt this is a Lightroom issue: I suspect Lightroom just passes off screen-painting (rendering) commands to the operating system.
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Apple has a support document that addresses the compatibility of high-resolution monitors (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206587) with its desktop and laptop products. There is another support document that specifically describes the monitor configurations supported by the 2013 Mac Pro (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202801).
Here's what the link you posted says about displays for the late 2013 Mac Pro.
Display configurations you can use with your Mac Pro (Late 2013)
You can connect up to six of the following properly-configured displays to your Mac Pro (Late 2013).
- Six Apple Thunderbolt Displays (27-inch), Apple LED Cinema Displays (27-inch), or third-party Mini DisplayPort displays.
- Three 4K displays: two connected via Mini DisplayPort and one connected via HDMI.
- One 4K Ultra HD TV or 4K display using HDMI and four Apple Thunderbolt Displays (27-inch), Apple LED Cinema Displays (27-inch), or third-party Mini DisplayPort displays.
- Two HDMI (HD or 4K) devices: one connected via HDMI and one connected via Mini DisplayPort with an HDMI adapter.
- Six DVI displays. This configuration requires an active DVI adapter.
See Using 4K displays and Ultra HD TVs with Mac computers for a list of 4k displays that work with your Mac Pro.
Nary a mention of 5K displays. 5120×2880 (14,745,600) is a lot of pixels to move around. The only Macs Apple lists as compatible with the LG 5K monitor Apple sells are the iMac Pro (2017), iMac (2017), and MacBook Pro (2016 and later). I could be wrong though.
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It would be valuable to get input from someone with a more recent iMac 4K and/or 5K. While LR may indeed be the culprit, I believe some suspicion might fall on the D700 video cards which, while they 'support' 4K, arrived on the scene somewhat before 4K became truly mainstream.
I have a similar MacPro with the D700s and the performance is only reasonable for 4K video and certainly does not give seamless playback at 24fps.
Chris
My setup includes a late 2015 27 inch 5k Retina iMac, 16 gb ram. OS is now Mojave. LR Classic 8.0. I have no performance issues at all.
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Sorry guys for being so quiet. We're really busy at the moment with many corporate and real estate jobs, so I could not test yet the driver thing.
But in general, I really don't think it is lack of hardware resources. Apple clearly states, that the MacPro 2013 can handle up to 3 4k monitors and I'm running just one.
Also I see this strange behaviour also, when I run Lightroom on a simple 24 inch 1080p monitor from Dell (without any special hardware calibration/driver..).
I'm going to try the driver thing tomorrow afternoon (hopefully) and post an update here.
Lately I even recognised some strange lags within OSX Mojave while moving windows around or event just moving the mouse cursor. Sometimes it just lags and then jumps on the screen. So I really think there is a software issue here.
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@ Chris Kern
Just kicked off all EIZO/ColorNavigator files from my system and did a cold restart without the EIZO attached to the MacPro. Tested Lightroom with the Dell screen only and afterwards with the EIZO 318-4K (without the EIZO software).
Lightroom works much better now. The overview tool from the library can be used again with more than 10 pictures. It's still lagging a bit, compared to my experience from my "old" MacPro with the FirePro D300 and an EIZO CG277 unter High Sierra, but this function can be used again.
Same for the full screen (F-key) mode. It opens and closed quite fast again. Culling through pictures is still a bit slower compared to my old hardware setup, but at least it can be used again.
This all might be a problem of old 32bit drivers/software and OSX Mojave.
EIZO also announced a full new version (V7) of ColorNavigator software to be released on Nov. 2nd. Guess this will be the 64bit update. Let's see what comes out end of the week with the new Color Navigator.
If you have any other ideas which might speed up LR again, let me know! For the moment, I can at least work again on my hardware. *hurray*
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This all might be a problem of old 32bit drivers/software and OSX Mojave.
Possibly. While the MacOS 10.14 (Mojave) release supports 32-bit apps, it's not clear to me whether Apple includes drivers that communicate directly with peripheral hardware devices when when it refers to "apps." When developers speak of application software, they usually mean programs that execute under full control of the operating system—that is, which are completely insulated from the hardware by the operating system. I would assume any software that bypasses this mechanism would need to be 64-bit clean. In any event, Apple says 10.14 will be the last MacOS rev to provide any 32-bit support; this transition has been underway for some time.
Personally, I'm still running MacOS 10.13 (High Sierra) on all my Macs. I generally prefer to remain at least one operating system release behind Apple's latest deployed version. (At least, on old hardware. New Apple products ship with and often require the latest release.) My philosophy toward operating system upgrades is similar to my philosophy toward camera body upgrades: I need a specific reason to make the change, and even then wait to do so until I have some reason to believe the manufacturer has resolved the most blatant bugs.
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Apple apps and Adobe apps are usually very good at keeping up with major Mac OS updates.
The current release 10.14.0 (Mojave) seems to follow that trend.
That said, as a retired IT guy I know that when 10.14.0 is released 10.14.1 is already in the oven ready to go through several iterations of beta testing with developers.
Since I have some software that is not from a major app shop I've always waited until the xx.xx.2 release is available. So that means I will upgrade to Mojave at 10.14.2
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Usually I also wait for major updates of the OS. This time, I replaced my hardware with an used MacPro (more performance) which came clean but with Mojave on it..