Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on September 29, 2018, 09:46:11 am

Title: Z7 support?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 29, 2018, 09:46:11 am
Does someone know when C1 Pro will support the Z7?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Kevin Raber on September 29, 2018, 10:38:54 am
Since I have received my Z7 I am anxious to process RAWs.  I have made an inquiry on RAW support to my contacts at Phase One and will let you know what I hear.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on September 29, 2018, 01:36:06 pm
Exactly my question - Capture NX-D is really awful. I can't remember it (or its predecessor) being that bad?
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 29, 2018, 05:10:36 pm
Thanks Kevin.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Jeff on September 30, 2018, 02:27:20 am
Since I have received my Z7 I am anxious to process RAWs.  I have made an inquiry on RAW support to my contacts at Phase One and will let you know what I hear.
Probably that they do not give details or release dates of forthcoming products.

Maybe for you, though  under an NDA,  but not for the general public, as such.

Of course, Phase One could change their policy as they did with supporting a medium format camera with the Fujifilm camera.

Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: mediumcool on September 30, 2018, 03:32:24 am
I think that there will be some healthy cashflow from the Fuji deal!
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on September 30, 2018, 08:15:25 am
Probably that they do not give details or release dates of forthcoming products.

Maybe for you, though  under an NDA,  but not for the general public, as such.

Of course, Phase One could change their policy as they did with supporting a medium format camera with the Fujifilm camera.

I don't think they would be reluctant to release information about plans for a routine update to support a new camera. In fact one of the things that started the rot with Aperture, for me, was the slow pace of camera support updates, so there is a price to pay for users losing confidence in software support.

Anyway, this is a bit apocalyptic - it's only been out for a day :-)
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on October 01, 2018, 04:55:47 am
I don't think they would be reluctant to release information about plans for a routine update to support a new camera. In fact one of the things that started the rot with Aperture, for me, was the slow pace of camera support updates, so there is a price to pay for users losing confidence in software support.

Anyway, this is a bit apocalyptic - it's only been out for a day :-)

Well - turns out I was wrong and after I queried PhaseOne they replied that they don't comment on development plans. That's their prerogative of course. Likewise the customer's prerogative to not buy software once they lose confidence in its future.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: myotis on October 01, 2018, 07:47:03 am
Well - turns out I was wrong and after I queried PhaseOne they replied that they don't comment on development plans. That's their prerogative of course. Likewise the customer's prerogative to not buy software once they lose confidence in its future.

They are usually pretty quick (weeks) in supporting cameras they see as main stream professional/semi-professional cameras.  But equally, they are consistent in sticking with the no comment approach on when support will be available. Over the years I have used C1 I have seen them explain a couple of times about how long it takes them both in the lab and from field testing to develop support for a new camera (apparently 700 to 800 images are taken across a range of different subjects, and with several people involved) and that they won't start the process until they get a production camera in their hands.

Cheers,

Graham

Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 01, 2018, 08:14:27 am
Phase one you can trust will release a version for the Canon and Nikon and usually they do it after they have received a camera in hand.  You can always request to be put on their beta program to get an early release.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 22, 2018, 10:12:31 pm
Does anyone have an update on this?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on October 23, 2018, 08:11:31 am
Does anyone have an update on this?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard

No but a new year is approaching and that's a convenient time to  start a new catalogue with a new software.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: JaapD on October 24, 2018, 01:12:11 am
I expect the Z7 support will arrive around 30 November / 1 December. Why?
- Rel. 10 was released at 1 December 2016.
- Rel. 11 was released at 30 November 2017.

So it seems C1 has a pretty predictable release moment. With this I don’t expect any changes anymore on rel. 11 as C1 is internally fully focused in bringing out rel. 12. One even might expect rel. 12 pre-releases are already out there in the field…

Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 25, 2018, 08:13:23 pm
If that is the case I sure hope that they will have implemented a software fix for the rare banding cases by then. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on October 26, 2018, 05:38:00 am
I expect the Z7 support will arrive around 30 November / 1 December. Why?
- Rel. 10 was released at 1 December 2016.
- Rel. 11 was released at 30 November 2017.

So it seems C1 has a pretty predictable release moment. With this I don’t expect any changes anymore on rel. 11 as C1 is internally fully focused in bringing out rel. 12. One even might expect rel. 12 pre-releases are already out there in the field…

In my experience, Phase One doesn't wait months to add camera support until a new upgrade is released. Camera support is part of the regular update path, and the delay is more likely caused by late availability of a camera to profile and them now having to allocate resources for the new version.

We'll see what transpires.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 26, 2018, 08:20:26 am
Does the new Beta 1 support the Z7?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Dave Rosser on October 26, 2018, 03:46:05 pm
Does the new Beta 1 support the Z7?

Cheers,
Bernard
You could find out if there is a new beta and what it supports by joining the beta programme.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on November 01, 2018, 11:56:08 am
Does the new Beta 1 support the Z7?

Cheers,
Bernard

Supposing that PhaseOne are mostly concentrating on an upcoming (December??) version upgrade (as per previous years' schedule), I am wondering if it is realistic to expect Z7 support before v12 is out?

Happy to be proved wrong - the Lightroom UI is driving me bonkers!
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Mike Dale on November 07, 2018, 08:31:32 am
Come on PhaseOne, get a move on. As good as the Z7 JPG's are I still want the NEF capability please.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 07, 2018, 11:35:22 am
Come on PhaseOne, get a move on. As good as the Z7 JPG's are I still want the NEF capability please.

Indeed, it's taking quite a while, but also make sure that Phase One can prioritize their activities by filing an official feature request:
FOR FEATURE REQUESTS AND BUG REPORTS, FILE A SUPPORT CASE AT https://www.phaseone.com/SupportMain.aspx

Hope they get it done soon.

Cheers
Bart
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Mike Dale on November 07, 2018, 04:39:29 pm
Indeed, it's taking quite a while, but also make sure that Phase One can prioritize their activities by filing an official feature request:
FOR FEATURE REQUESTS AND BUG REPORTS, FILE A SUPPORT CASE AT https://www.phaseone.com/SupportMain.aspx

Hope they get it done soon.

Cheers
Bart

I'd dearly like to but they insist you enter a camera model from a drop down menu. Unfortunately there is not an option for Z7.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 07, 2018, 07:04:11 pm
I'd dearly like to but they insist you enter a camera model from a drop down menu. Unfortunately there is not an option for Z7.

Just fill-in another Nikon model type, and explain (or use Brand *N/A and Model *N/A).

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Ray Harrison on November 17, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
I would definitely add to the list of folks suggest joining the beta program and grabbing the latest. Obviously it's a beta, but you may like what you see.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on November 19, 2018, 04:43:10 am
I would definitely add to the list of folks suggest joining the beta program and grabbing the latest. Obviously it's a beta, but you may like what you see.

This.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Rado on November 22, 2018, 09:49:18 am
Those of you who are in beta, does it support the new Canon R too? The public release is expected to be any day now, so I hope it does.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: john beardsworth on November 22, 2018, 10:05:43 am
Those of you who are in beta, does it support the new Canon R too? The public release is expected to be any day now, so I hope it does.

Those of you who are in beta, did you sign an NDA? Ah....
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: nemtom on November 29, 2018, 06:34:52 am
Now it is available with the release of CO 12.0.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 29, 2018, 08:55:36 am
Now it is available with the release of CO 12.0.

Yes. Slightly disappointing that they didn't add it to version 11 sooner, but it was apparently too close to the release date of version 12 to allocate resources.

BTW, Version 12 seems like a worthwhile upgrade in its own right:
https://co12.phaseone.com/

Downloading as we speak.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on November 29, 2018, 11:28:33 am
Yes. Slightly disappointing that they didn't add it to version 11 sooner, but it was apparently too close to the release date of version 12 to allocate resources.

It seems to be still not added to v11.  I like the software a lot but I am a bit tired of the money gouging.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Kevin Raber on November 29, 2018, 12:42:02 pm
Z7 works great in C1 v12.  enjoying going back over the images I have shot and making adjustment.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: digitaldog on November 29, 2018, 12:49:56 pm
It seems to be still not added to v11.  I like the software a lot but I am a bit tired of the money gouging.
The FREE and latest version of Adobe's DNG converter supports the Z7. Now how well C1 supports the DNG is a question I cannot answer.....  ;)
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/10/11/adobe-dng-converter-11-released-with-support-for-the-nikon-coolpix-p1000-and-nikon-z7-cameras.aspx/
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Dave Rosser on November 29, 2018, 01:33:56 pm
The FREE and latest version of Adobe's DNG converter supports the Z7. Now how well C1 supports the DNG is a question I cannot answer.....  ;)
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/10/11/adobe-dng-converter-11-released-with-support-for-the-nikon-coolpix-p1000-and-nikon-z7-cameras.aspx/
V11 won't I'm afraid, to read DNG for a particular camera CO needs that camera to be one it supports.  But I have been known to be wrong so there is no harm in trying.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: FranciscoDisilvestro on November 30, 2018, 05:39:11 pm
I used a Nikon Z7 with the kit lens (24-70 f:4) and imported the images to C1 v12, which now includes a profile for the Z7.  The issue is that C1 does not recognize the lens correction parameters that are now stored inside the NEF file and there is not a separate profile for the Nikon S 24-70. This lens has visible distortion (LR and Nikon Capture NX-D do not allow you to turn off lens correction), especially a pronounced pincushion distortion at the long end.

There is a workaround however (not ideal to me), which is to convert the NEF Files to DNG. Now C1 can read the lens correction paramenters from the DNG file and apply them. So far the colours look fine and will report if I encounter any issue with this approach.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: faberryman on November 30, 2018, 06:32:20 pm
I used a Nikon Z7 with the kit lens (24-70 f:4) and imported the images to C1 v12, which now includes a profile for the Z7.  The issue is that C1 does not recognize the lens correction parameters that are now stored inside the NEF file and there is not a separate profile for the Nikon S 24-70. This lens has visible distortion (LR and Nikon Capture NX-D do not allow you to turn off lens correction), especially a pronounced pincushion distortion at the long end.
I thought the large throat diameter was suppose to usher in a new era in optics.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: FranciscoDisilvestro on November 30, 2018, 06:56:25 pm
I thought the large throat diameter was suppose to usher in a new era in optics.

I'm no expert in optics, but I guess that large throat diameter was to allow for lenses such as the announced 58mm f:0.95 or lenses with less vigneting. Distorsion is easier to correct with software, and the current trend seems to be to apply it without giving the choice to the user
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on November 30, 2018, 09:43:03 pm
I used a Nikon Z7 with the kit lens (24-70 f:4) and imported the images to C1 v12, which now includes a profile for the Z7.  The issue is that C1 does not recognize the lens correction parameters that are now stored inside the NEF file and there is not a separate profile for the Nikon S 24-70. This lens has visible distortion (LR and Nikon Capture NX-D do not allow you to turn off lens correction), especially a pronounced pincushion distortion at the long end.

Hi Frank,

I must assume that Capture One will be offering its own lens corrections once they've determined the average production settings. When they do, you'll have the option to either enable or disable the correction.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: FranciscoDisilvestro on November 30, 2018, 10:49:06 pm
Hi Frank,

I must assume that Capture One will be offering its own lens corrections once they've determined the average production settings. When they do, you'll have the option to either enable or disable the correction.

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart,

Yes, that is a possibility, but I think it will be easier to just read the lens correction paramenters from the NEF File as they already do with DNG files and cameras that output directly DNGs.

Also, C1 is one of the few programs that allow the user to decide applying or not the lens corrections embedded in the DNG / Raw
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: jeremyrh on December 01, 2018, 04:30:29 am
Hi Frank,

I must assume that Capture One will be offering its own lens corrections once they've determined the average production settings. When they do, you'll have the option to either enable or disable the correction.

Cheers,
Bart

Maybe they're saving that for a year to tempt us to upgrade to v13 hahaha
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Mike Dale on December 01, 2018, 06:39:06 am
What is the definition of a “shill”?
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 01, 2018, 07:07:16 am
Maybe they're saving that for a year to tempt us to upgrade to v13 hahaha

 ;D

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: myotis on December 13, 2018, 08:38:21 am
Maybe a bit late in the day, but it seems that z7 (I don't know about z6) is now supported in V11 of C1.

But you need to download a fresh copy from the Phase One archives.

https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=29372&start=60#p144964https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=29372&start=60#p144964

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 13, 2018, 09:14:40 am
Maybe a bit late in the day, but it seems that z7 (I don't know about z6) is now supported in V11 of C1.

But you need to download a fresh copy from the Phase One archives.

https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=29372&start=60#p144964https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=29372&start=60#p144964

A bit late, but a class act indeed. Adding support for relatively new cameras to older versions of the software, is something that is rare.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: myotis on December 13, 2018, 09:29:15 am
A bit late, but a class act indeed. Adding support for relatively new cameras to older versions of the software, is something that is rare.

I agree it's good they are providing support, in what is now outdated software, but its pity they haven't publicised it a bit more. There are possibly obvious financial reasons not to, but equally a bit of good PR wouldn't do them any harm at the moment, as there are a lot of negative comments floating around.

Cheers,

Graham

Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Paul2660 on December 13, 2018, 09:56:28 am
Hopefully P1 also addressed the issue where a layer WB was not copying correctly between two images. 

Only on Windows version of 11.3.  Opened a case, and was told they were aware of the issue.  Temp fix was to download beta of 12, which did not have the problem.  Need to pull down the version of 11 with the update for the Z7 and see if my issue was fixed.

Paul C
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: alan_b on December 13, 2018, 11:59:40 am
Well done Phase!  I'm still using 11 for production, even though I paid for the 12 upgrade.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Walter Rowe on January 12, 2019, 02:49:50 pm
There is a workaround however (not ideal to me), which is to convert the NEF Files to DNG. Now C1 can read the lens correction paramenters from the DNG file and apply them. So far the colours look fine and will report if I encounter any issue with this approach.
Oh, I need to try this. I am very disappointed that the kit lens or built-in profile in the NEF are not supported. Seems a little hurried to me for PhaseOne in order to claim they support the Z6 and Z7 bodies. Hoping the next update addresses this. In the mean time I will try the DNG converter trick. Thanks!
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Walter Rowe on January 12, 2019, 06:30:31 pm
OK. So I tried this and it works! Amazing. When you convert a camera native raw file to adobe dng (I did not embed the camera native raw file), Capture One Pro recognized the camera manufacturer's embedded lens profile. It does not recognize it in the camera native raw file. I am opening a case for this with Capture One.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Walter Rowe on January 12, 2019, 06:35:46 pm
I am opening a separate case to complain (once again) about their generally less than stellar support for adobe dng derivatives from camera native raw files. The "Shot" white balance for the camera native raw file is nearly 1000K greater than the adobe dng version, and the tint about 7.7 greater in the camera native raw file than in the adobe dng file. Why does Capture One handle adobe dng files so differently if they are supposed to have the same information in them? Is Capture One really getting all the information available out of the dng file and processing it correctly? Lightroom will use the exact same settings for both versions and produce the exact same look. Capture One has a wickedly different interpretation and thus requires wildly differently white balance setting.
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: DP on January 12, 2019, 06:46:11 pm
The "Shot" white balance for the camera native raw file is nearly 1000K greater than the adobe dng version, and the tint about 7.7 greater in the camera native raw file than in the adobe dng file.

K & tint numbers are really irrelevant... every raw converter calculates them differently and more so - you can adjust CM matrices so that Adobe tools will be showing wildly different K/tint values for a different camera profile (once you modify just those matrices there) while the output will be the same... you can do this with Adobe DNG PE for example - see its manual


Why does Capture One handle adobe dng files so differently if they are supposed to have the same information in them?

why all raw converted are different when they deal with the same raw files, huh ?

Is Capture One really getting all the information available out of the dng file and processing it correctly? Lightroom will use the exact same settings for both versions and produce the exact same look. Capture One has a wickedly different interpretation and thus requires wildly differently white balance setting.

Because C1 has totally different approach to raw conversion in terms when certain parts of camera profiles are applied to data, not to mention that that their camera profiles are not DCP profiles
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: DP on January 12, 2019, 06:49:11 pm
Lightroom will use the exact same settings for both versions and produce the exact same look.

that is by design - Adobe code specifically is written so that conversion from raw file and conversion from DNG converted by the same version of their software will be identical - you can say for simplicity that ACR & LR first "convert" raw file internally into DNG and the work from there... hence no difference...
Title: Re: Z7 support?
Post by: Denis de Gannes on January 13, 2019, 08:34:36 pm
that is by design - Adobe code specifically is written so that conversion from raw file and conversion from DNG converted by the same version of their software will be identical - you can say for simplicity that ACR & LR first "convert" raw file internally into DNG and the work from there... hence no difference...

To me this appears to be pure speculation, it more logical to understand that they both use the same processing engine and the same profiles to achieve the same result.
Neither application makes any changes to the raw file data.