Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Lighting => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on September 11, 2018, 10:12:40 pm

Title: Profoto B10
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 11, 2018, 10:12:40 pm
https://photorumors.com/2018/09/11/profoto-b10-250-airttl-flash-specifications-leaked/

I can see myself bring one along when I shoot with a light mirrorless body with one umbrella or octobox.

Anyone else thinking this could be a valuable addition between the compact strobes and a full lighting set up?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on September 12, 2018, 03:12:42 am

Anyone else thinking this could be a valuable addition between the compact strobes and a full lighting set up?


For Gen Z and Millennials something like this and an on-camera flash is a full lighting set up. Or maybe you haven't been to a wedding in the last few of years. Godox, Flashpoint, pick your Chinese flash brand, are common and similar in size/power.

At 250WS and a recycle time of 2 seconds it's pretty low spec. Sadly they're continuing the recessed flash tube. They are adding Bluetooth but it'll be the only light they sell that offers control by an app. Hopefully the build quality will be better than the B2 but I wouldn't count on it.



Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 12, 2018, 04:13:09 am
At 250WS and a recycle time of 2 seconds it's pretty low spec. Sadly they're continuing the recessed flash tube.

Indeed, this is disappointing.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Rado on September 12, 2018, 04:26:31 pm
What do you expect for $1600 (rumored price)? </sarcasm>

Here's an ad showing it in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ1oTDXgvj8

I couldn't help but notice that the cinematography in the video looks much better than the photos.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on September 12, 2018, 09:22:28 pm
In Profoto's promo video on B&H (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/profoto-unleashes-the-power-of-small-with-the-b10-off-camera-flash?utm_medium=Email%201691446&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Canon%20180912&utm_content=Retail&utm_term=profoto-video&encEmail=C3D9513FC1AFFAE724B4DA165C5BFD792708CB5CE8A80144871C3A2097433598#video) the guy comments that 'when used in combination with a B1 the lights were highly complimentary.' Huh ? So that makes me wonder what color shift there is over the power range.

$1600 is a lot of money for 250WS.

No PC sync, can't be used without an air remote.

Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Ken Bennett on September 13, 2018, 02:52:19 pm
Not just the younger generation is using the smaller flash units. I've been shooting for thirty+ years and I love my Godox AD200 - I have three of them. They are small, light, 200w/s output, baretube or reflector (choose from two), and they provide consistent color and power output using a tiny li-ion battery that never seems to run out. Paired with the correct "pro" transmitter, they can do TTL or manual and HSS with almost any camera system. And you can get the flash unit and the transmitter for under four hundred bucks U.S.

I can stick one in my camera bag, grab a light stand and a shoot thru umbrella, and always have a lighting solution with me.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Rado on September 13, 2018, 04:08:42 pm
I agree the form factor of AD200 is great, I own two. Unfortunately the overheat protection kicks in fairly quickly when using HSS. If the B10 can go on for hours then that might be worth it to some people.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on September 13, 2018, 09:54:40 pm
Not just the younger generation is using the smaller flash units. I've been shooting for thirty+ years and I love my Godox AD200

I don't doubt that a compact form factor will appeal the photographers of all ages but if you've been shooting 30+ years, as have I, we're not a growth market. That would be the Gen Z and Millennial, anyone who can use a monolight with TTL and has an Instagram page calls them-self a photographer market.

My smallest kit for location is the Broncolor Move L with 2 Mobile LED heads. So I too am prepared to pay a premium price for a compact form factor. Just a slightly different definition of compact.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: nemophoto on September 16, 2018, 01:08:18 pm
Personally, I love my Elinchrom ELB500. For a little more money, it has twice the power and faster recycle time as the Profoto. Though the specs say recycle is 3.5 seconds at full power, my observation was closer to 2. In the 4-5 months Iíve owned it, Iíve been very pleased. (I have a personal dislike for Profoto. Iíve never liked the flashes and I think they are overpriced. )

As for the AD200, I have a friend who swear by them (better than AT them) and a photo assistant who has bought a couple. For me, none of these have the kind of recycle time I want for shooting quickly. But, if I didnít already have two Canon Speedlites, I might consider the AD200.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on September 16, 2018, 09:21:39 pm
Personally, I love my Elinchrom ELB500. For a little more money, it has twice the power and faster recycle time as the Profoto.

Elinchrom has always made high quality lights but I think their current line is their best ever. Well designed, excellent build quality, easy and dependable to use lights and packs. I hope they manage to stay in business in this brutal market competing with Godox and all their re-branded entities.

Profoto has fallen in quality with their latest products but they spend a ton on marketing. They're sort of the Bose of lighting. Their new lights look good, have a much cheaper build and average performance with more problems than they used to.

B&H already has already had a sale on the Profoto A1 to move their inventory because they're not selling at list price. Wait a couple of months and you'll see the same thing happen with the B10, IMHO.

Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: nemophoto on September 18, 2018, 12:50:22 pm
IMHO, the Profoto A1 is massively overpriced, relying on it's name for a good 30% markup. Before I bought the Elinchrom ELB 500 (and the ELB 400 before it), I rented the Profoto B2 from lensrentals.com. I ended up actually getting two different sets of the B2 from lenrentals.com because NEITHER worked properly with my 5Ds. The strobes would fire, but the image was black (both normal and hi-speed modes). I even updated firmware etc. with the same results. On my 1Dx, the B2s worked initially, but then I had the same issue of black frames with hi-speed sync. I decided they were junk and I would never buy them as a result. I've been very happy with my Elinchrom and I like the Rotolux softboxes. If you compare apples to apples, the ELB 500 is far better than the B2.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: D White on September 19, 2018, 08:32:23 pm
I was very interested in entering the rather expensive world of Profoto. I bought 2 B1's for a friend of mine who shoots a lot of portrait stuff.

But in the end for me it just made much more sense to buy Godox; very capable at a third of the price. In most specs it actually equals or surpasses the Profoto gear.

I put together a kit of four AD600PRO, three AD200, and two V860 shoe mount. With two controllers, (for half the price of one Profoto air), I can use either my Canon and Olympus. And they have more functionality. The AD200 essential perform at the same level as the B10 units.

So for essentially the same price as the two B1's I bought for my friend, I got a full comprehensive set up with no compromises I can see, and some aspects performing at a higher level such as twice the output with high speed sync.

Thats the power of marketing; they make you want to spend 2K for just one head. Remember, two heads are better than one particularly if they cost less than half as much.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on May 07, 2019, 10:44:22 pm
I'm re-opening this thread so I can say boy was I wrong !

In the last year I've bought 2 Broncolor 2 head Move kits and a Siros L 800 for location work. They're awesome lights and I don't think anything compares to them.

But a couple of weeks ago I came across a deal on an open box, never used Profoto B10 for $1500 and I bought it. Profoto got this one right and I'm really enjoying this little thing. It's only 1/2 stop less output than a B1X, has a much wider dispersion of light than their other recessed tube lights and has amazing battery life. Being able to use the LED to really check out what you're getting, turning it up brighter than proportional and then just turning it off is useful. The variable color temp may prove useful as well but you have to guess at the color temp.

Most of the promo videos show it being used without a modifier or with their OCF 2' Octa or their OCF Beauty dish. I've been using the Elinchrom Deep Octas, the added depth means the internal diffusion gets an even spread of light and so they're punchy without the font diffusion or extremely even and soft with the front diffusion. Fall off is only 1/2 stop at the very edge.

With both the Broncolor Siros and the B10 the Bluetooth apps are actually nice to have. Particularly when I'm working without an assistant.

So while I'll be more careful to prejudge next time, right now I'm really not sure about the new Profoto Connect trigger.





Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 31, 2019, 01:43:12 am
Thank you Kirk,

This is very useful!

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 05, 2019, 04:13:42 pm
Looks like we have a B10+ now that can output 500W and is 6cm longer than the B10.

If there is one thing Profoto must work on itís the consistency of their product naming. It has become a total mess.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on June 06, 2019, 12:43:30 am
Looks like we have a B10+ now that can output 500W and is 6cm longer than the B10.

If there is one thing Profoto must work on itís the consistency of their product naming. It has become a total mess.

Cheers,
Bernard

I don't think so.

The B10 plus is the B10 plus one more stop of light. The B1X is history.

The D2 replaced the 1D. I'm sure the new form factor will eventually replace the 2D and offer TTL

The A1 was updated to the A1X with Xtra battery capacity and a faster recycling time.

The new Connect remote is for all the amateurs Pros who would be lost without A priority and now want to use lights.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 06, 2019, 01:03:57 am
I don't think so.

The B10 plus is the B10 plus one more stop of light. The B1X is history.

The D2 replaced the 1D. I'm sure the new form factor will eventually replace the 2D and offer TTL

The A1 was updated to the A1X with Xtra battery capacity and a faster recycling time.

The new Connect remote is for all the amateurs Pros who would be lost without A priority and now want to use lights.

Youíre right, this is crystal clear! :D

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: JaapD on July 11, 2019, 12:47:20 am

The new Connect remote is for all the amateurs Pros who would be lost without A priority and now want to use lights.

Donít know what this has to do with the subject. Does it matter if you have the disadvantage as a pro and be forced to live from your photo business?

Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on July 11, 2019, 10:16:00 pm
Donít know what this has to do with the subject.

It has everything to do with the subject. The B10 along with the Connect remote offers TTL and this automation allows people with no skill set whatsoever to misrepresent themselves as a pro.


Does it matter if you have the disadvantage as a pro and be forced to live from your photo business?


I have no idea what this means. Someone is forcing you to work as a photographer for a living ?
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 12, 2019, 01:22:33 am
It has everything to do with the subject. The B10 along with the Connect remote offers TTL and this automation allows people with no skill set whatsoever to misrepresent themselves as a pro.

TTL is above all a great way to create photographs that scream ďI was shot with a flashĒ! ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on July 12, 2019, 01:30:33 am
It has everything to do with the subject. The B10 along with the Connect remote offers TTL and this automation allows people with no skill set whatsoever to misrepresent themselves as a pro.

I have no idea what this means. Someone is forcing you to work as a photographer for a living ?

Over the years every single technicals skill required by pros has slowly been eroded and taken away by technological advances. Any pro that thinks his or her technical skills is what will create a career saving barrier to entry is out of business or will. E as soon as the technology solves that particular problem.

Exposure on film was tricky, a non event with digital
Focus took real skill, particularly with sport, enter A9 D5 1DX
Choosing the moment of exposure killed off by 20fps
I can go on but wonít

Somehow actual pros keep working. It takes a lot more than just technical skills. Light meter jockeys disappeared decades ago.

Same for TTL flash. Itís anyway not very useful in the studio. Great for on camera flash at events though.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: TonyVentourisPhotography on July 12, 2019, 10:41:36 am
Correct...being pro means running a business with paperwork, taxes, negotiations, marketing, accounting, legal matters, contracts, and everything else that comes with being an business entity.  Too bad B&H doesnít sell easy business solutions!

Itís always interesting to me why there is such a push in the photo and video world to make money with these tools.  I never hear other friends in the same light...

I just got lots of expensive pots and pans....how can I make money with my cooking? 
I just bought a fancy telescope...how can I make money using this?

Then again...people are renting their cars on turo... and lots of other things on similar services...
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on July 12, 2019, 11:17:17 am
Right Tony.

If you buy a violin you are the owner of a violin. If you buy a camera you are a photographer. It no longer bothers me. You want to have a go at making a living with a camera be my guest. Some manage and the vast majority disappear after a short while. TTL flashes are the least of it.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: JaapD on July 13, 2019, 10:28:51 am
Correct...being pro means running a business with paperwork, taxes, negotiations, marketing, accounting, legal matters, contracts, and everything else that comes with being an business entity.  Too bad B&H doesnít sell easy business solutions!

Exactly! Being a pro doesnít say much about the level of your creative and/or photographic skills. Only that you need to create an income out of it.

Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Kirk_C on July 13, 2019, 08:35:07 pm
Over the years every single technicals skill required by pros has slowly been eroded and taken away by technological advances. Any pro that thinks his or her technical skills is what will create a career saving barrier to entry is out of business or will. E as soon as the technology solves that particular problem.

First of all I was being facetious. I was in no way intending to start the broad discussion of what being a pro means.

Having said that, I completely agree with you.

Same for TTL flash. Itís anyway not very useful in the studio. Great for on camera flash at events though.

Yes, the Metz SCA-390 worked wonders on my ELX and CW bodies back in the day. That was real TTL, with a sensor actually in the body reading off the film.
Title: Re: Profoto B10
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on July 14, 2019, 12:40:53 am
First of all I was being facetious. I was in no way intending to start the broad discussion of what being a pro means.

Having said that, I completely agree with you.

Yes, the Metz SCA-390 worked wonders on my ELX and CW bodies back in the day. That was real TTL, with a sensor actually in the body reading off the film.

I realized you were being facetious Kirk and wasnít having a go at you all. Apologies if it came across like that. I was really remarking on the belief some people seem to have that buying the gear will make them a pro. But I was also having a bit of a go at pros that think a technical skill will protect them from encroachment from people who donít have the skill. 

As has been mentioned business skills are required and what I meant to say is above all else you need an eye.