Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: David S on September 08, 2018, 04:18:05 pm

Title: Why upgrade?
Post by: David S on September 08, 2018, 04:18:05 pm
Wonderful new cameras (systems) from Canon, Fuji, and Nikon and everyone seems to think they are better.
But what do they offer to cause us to upgrade.

Why does one upgrade?
What are you getting when you get the new model that your old camera/system din't offer for your photography?

Dave S
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: 32BT on September 08, 2018, 04:40:56 pm
A camera that you actually want to pick up and take pictures with. You'll take more pictures with a better state of mind. More pictures = more practice = better pictures. So, contrary what you read here, a new camera does have the potential to make you a better photographer.

;-)
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: BJL on September 08, 2018, 04:42:16 pm
It is a common — but I suspect unjustified — assumption in internet discussions that the main target customers of each new model of camera are people who already have the immediate previous model or a comparable recent model in another brand. I would love to see real market data, but meanwhile my guess is that the main customers for a new model of camera are instead:

- those who do not yet have this type of camera at all, but are buying one now due to increasing photographic engagement or just being able to afford it at last. For example, those going from phone/compact to MFT/APS-C, or from there to 35mm, or from 35mm to one of those even larger formats — or going in the opposite direction (MF-> 35mm -> APS-C/MFT) as technological improvements let them get the IQ they want from a more portable, flexible system. (Or who previous camera died or was lost stolen!)

- those whose current digital camera is some years old (multiple generations older).

In these cases, the advantages of the new gear can be far larger than comparing to other recent models in the same format and price range. And the advantages can be in respects other that image quality alone; preferring an EVF camera with an extensive and well-reputed first party lens system behind it is one case that has been discussed to death recently.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Rob C on September 08, 2018, 06:26:43 pm
It is a common — but I suspect unjustified — assumption in internet discussions that the main target customers of each new model of camera are people who already have the immediate previous model or a comparable recent model in another brand. I would love to see real market data, but meanwhile my guess is that the main customers for a new model of camera are instead:

- those who do not yet have this type of camera at all, but are buying one now due to increasing photographic engagement or just being able to afford it at last. For example, those going from phone/compact to MFT/APS-C, or from there to 35mm, or from 35mm to one of those even larger formats — or going in the opposite direction (MF-> 35mm -> APS-C/MFT) as technological improvements let them get the IQ they want from a more portable, flexible system. (Or who previous camera died or was lost stolen!)

- those whose current digital camera is some years old (multiple generations older).

In these cases, the advantages of the new gear can be far larger than comparing to other recent models in the same format and price range. And the advantages can be in respects other that image quality alone; preferring an EVF camera with an extensive and well-reputed first party lens system behind it is one case that has been discussed to death recently.

However, for those of us who already know that our existing cameras are only partly employed and almost never stretched to their tech. breaking point, a new model seems just another way of throwing money into the toilet. A good holiday can do as much, even if you sometimes just end up throwing the odd meal up and - with luck - into the pan.

I don't think there are many sound reasons to upgrade. In most cases, I also wonder if there are ever any great photographic reasons to expensive ownership at all.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: rdonson on September 08, 2018, 08:37:26 pm
Why does one upgrade?
What are you getting when you get the new model that your old camera/system din't offer for your photography?

Dave S

I have an X-T1 and X-T2.  When I upgrade to the X-T3 it will be for better features and capabilities.  YMMV

- 2EV improvement in low light
- more PD AF sites
- faster processor
- improved shooting for sports and wildlife
- ETERNA color emulation for video
- better 4K video
- somewhat better battery life
- and much more

The best part, to Fuji's credit, they didn't screw around with the analog controls on the outside of the camera except in very small ways that make things even better.  I love the design of the X-T1, 2 and 3 cameras.

I'm also addicted to Fuji's periodic firmware updates that improve the capabilities of the camera and add new features.  KAIZEN forever!!!!

Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: armand on September 11, 2018, 11:35:25 pm
Why does one upgrade?

Dave S

Because we must, resistance is futile.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on September 11, 2018, 11:46:02 pm
A camera that you actually want to pick up and take pictures with...

That's an interesting point of view. I guess you mean the excitement and novelty of the new toy makes you more likely to play with it? Sure. But you also know what kids do to new toys when the novelty wears off? If not, watch the Toy Story and the yard sale part. Off to a new toy, or new hobby.

That's what happens if it is the camera that makes you want to pick it up and take pictures with. If creating pictures is what makes you pick up a camera, however... ;)
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Rand47 on September 11, 2018, 11:49:34 pm
I upgrade for the absolute fun of chasing the technology.  I’m both photographer, and technology junky, which makes chasing the technology both a great hobby in itself, and fun in seeing incremental increases in what I can do with image making, and how I go about it.  Focus stacking “in camera” being a great example.  Like the AWB “lock” coming up in the X-T3.  Like the out of this world IBIS in my X-H1.  They don’t necessarily allow me to do things I couldn’t do before, but they sure make it more efficient and more intuitive in the use of the cameras themselves. 

Add advances like Topaz’s AI Gigapixel and even resolution limitations are going by the board.

Rand
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Kirk_C on September 12, 2018, 03:17:00 am
Why does one upgrade?
What are you getting when you get the new model that your old camera/system din't offer for your photography?


Because a camera like the XT-3 is a big step forward for a good price from a company with great lenses. And they're really just getting started from the looks of it.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: 32BT on September 12, 2018, 03:38:22 am
I guess you mean the excitement and novelty of the new toy makes you more likely to play with it?

Interesting guess but not a very accurate one. It's obviously not the novelty i was refering to but the handling, though you probably knew that. (Sony should really take seriously the remarks about its cameras being like glorified gameconsoles. There is a distinct feel of 1980s walkman in their tactility.)

Having said that, however, the good thing about the internutz may be that when novelty wears out, that the toys can easily be resold. So these days kids may get a lot of new toys, but under the condition that they sell the old toys first, which increases awareness of what it means to just "own" stuff for the sake of all the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 12, 2018, 04:09:17 am
Wonderful new cameras (systems) from Canon, Fuji, and Nikon and everyone seems to think they are better.
But what do they offer to cause us to upgrade.

Why does one upgrade?
What are you getting when you get the new model that your old camera/system din't offer for your photography?

Interesting question indeed, there are a few things to say:
- A new mirrorless body could be an addition to an existing DSLR line up
- The value would be to handle better some shooting situations thanks to the characteristics of a given mirrorless system: impossibility to carry a bulky or heavy load, very dark shooting situation, need to shoot with a IBIS for a lens without VR/IS (bright zooms or primes), preference for the rendering/sharpness/lack of chromatic aberrations of some mirrorless lenses, better video,...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on September 12, 2018, 06:29:09 am
Because as much as I believe that a good photographer doesn't need the latest and greatest and that the newest won't make me a better photographer every now and again I lose the plot and get seduced by a new shiny thing.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Two23 on September 12, 2018, 09:22:20 am
Before I buy ANY camera gear now, I ask the fundamental question:  "What will it do/allow me to do that my current gear can't?"  If I can't come up with a solid answer to that, I don't buy it.  The second question I ask is:  "What else could I do with the money that would give me better photos?"  The answer to that question is to spend it on travel, more often than not.


Kent in SD

Below photo:
Propane tanks,
Redwood Falls, MN
Camera:  1904 Kodak Brownie No.2
Film:  Ilford Pan F

(I have since upgraded to the 1932 Kodak Brownie No.2 Model F.) ;)
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Kirk_C on September 12, 2018, 10:15:23 pm
  The answer to that question is to spend it on travel, more often than not.


Kent in SD

Below photo:
Propane tanks,
Redwood Falls, MN
Camera:  1904 Kodak Brownie No.2
Film:  Ilford Pan F


So you traveled all the way from South Dakota to Minnesota. My you are judicious with your money.  ;D
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: DP on September 12, 2018, 10:39:50 pm
I'm also addicted to Fuji's periodic firmware updates that improve the capabilities of the camera and add new features.  KAIZEN forever!!!!
Fuji's kaizen is the way for them to sell untested, undeveloped cameras ... case in point Sony APS-C dSLM with that same 24mp Sony sensor had AF @ -1 EV several years before Fuji kaizened that into X-T2... it is just the nice buzzword to cover the lack of investment in firmware development...
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: jeremyrh on September 13, 2018, 03:42:22 am
Technology has always been a part of photography, whether it's stroboscopic pictures of speeding bullets or the shadows of wet collodion. People have different likes and dislikes, and different sizes of wallets. I can see the interest in making a picture as pin-sharp as possible, but at the same time some of the pictures that have had the biggest emotional impact on me have been pretty blurry. Diff'rent strokes!!
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on September 13, 2018, 09:10:50 am
I have one Sony A7 and one Sony A7II. Guess I don't upgrade much...
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: chez on September 13, 2018, 09:39:19 am
I say why not upgrade. If you have the money and get pleasure out of upgrading and discovering new tech...what's the problem. Most of us are into photography as a hobby...so let's enjoy our hobby even if it means different things to different people.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Telecaster on September 13, 2018, 04:18:12 pm
I like trying out different camera systems and new tech. It makes the geek in me happy. At the same time it's a good way of discovering that once you cross a certain performance/reliability threshold, the particular tools you use don't matter much from a technical POV. In my experience that threshold is lower than many folks, the fanboy communities in particular, care to admit. At that point the geekery recedes and gear choices come down more to ergonomics and ćsthetics.

-Dave-
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: NancyP on September 14, 2018, 04:35:23 pm
I upgrade when the new camera  is significantly better for my needs than my old camera, enough so that it is worth the annoyance of having to "learn" the new camera (buttons in different location, menu different, grip a bit different....).

Lenses however - I don't need an excuse to "upgrade". Upgrading really means, get a lens with new focal length, tilt-shift, light / compact and good enough at f/5.6 - f/8 landscape lens for hiking, lens that is considerably sharper than current lens of its type, or other new capacity.....

Support and bags: well, we all are suckers for straps, new tripod heads with additional capacities, better flash bracket, etc
Lighting and modifiers, home-made and store-bought: where did that adapter go????
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Rob C on September 15, 2018, 06:13:41 am
I upgrade when the new camera  is significantly better for my needs than my old camera, enough so that it is worth the annoyance of having to "learn" the new camera (buttons in different location, menu different, grip a bit different....).

Lenses however - I don't need an excuse to "upgrade". Upgrading really means, get a lens with new focal length, tilt-shift, light / compact and good enough at f/5.6 - f/8 landscape lens for hiking, lens that is considerably sharper than current lens of its type, or other new capacity.....

Support and bags: well, we all are suckers for straps, new tripod heads with additional capacities, better flash bracket, etc
Lighting and modifiers, home-made and store-bought: where did that adapter go????
[/b]



My God, Nancy, what a misfit you make me feel! I share none of that need.

Rob
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Rob C on September 15, 2018, 06:20:50 am
I like trying out different camera systems and new tech. It makes the geek in me happy. At the same time it's a good way of discovering that once you cross a certain performance/reliability threshold, the particular tools you use don't matter much from a technical POV. In my experience that threshold is lower than many folks, the fanboy communities in particular, care to admit. At that point the geekery recedes and gear choices come down more to ergonomics and ćsthetics.

-Dave-


And the inevitable truth of the reality of the user's abilities with any camera equipment ends up being the governing factor in the results - if those actually matter to some people.

Also, you're right that equipment quality is already overkill for folks not making huge gallery prints selling for a zillion bucks a piece. If I was, I'd probably be into Phase.

Rob
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: jeremyrh on September 17, 2018, 04:51:03 am
[/b]
My God, Nancy, what a misfit you make me feel! I share none of that need.

Rob
Are you sure you're actually a photographer at all ? :-)
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Rob C on September 17, 2018, 09:31:45 am
Are you sure you're actually a photographer at all ? :-)

Well, I was a peripatetic lensman... now I'm just a wanderer.

;-)

Rob
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on September 17, 2018, 09:39:22 am
... Support and bags...

Can a photographer (or a lady) with just one bag even call themselves photographer (or lady)? ;)
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: jeremyrh on September 17, 2018, 11:02:45 am
Can a photographer (or a lady) with just one bag even call themselves photographer (or lady)? ;)

And can a photographer (or a lady) with just one bag even call themselves lady (or photographer)? ;)
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: faberryman on December 12, 2018, 04:05:16 pm
Support and bags: well, we all are suckers for straps, new tripod heads with additional capacities, better flash bracket, etc. Lighting and modifiers, home-made and store-bought: where did that adapter go????
I don't know who "we" is. i have one tripod head, one bag, no flash, flash brackets, lighting, and modifiers etc. but I know the type that has a compulsion to buy all that stuff. Sometimes they even need it.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: BAB on December 12, 2018, 08:50:08 pm
The upgrade I'm awaiting will be a 4x5 sensor on a camera with tilt shift and swings both ends with all the digital distance scales, in camera stitching w/in camera bracketing and integrated focus bracketing firing simultaneous images in less than 1000/sec. With a screen resolution that sucks your eyeballs out and  able to show you channel view of a RAW histogram before taking the image. Some glass that can handle a 20 stop DR. Until then we have to use what we can find.
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: Two23 on December 13, 2018, 12:43:13 am
The upgrade I'm awaiting will be a 4x5 sensor on a camera with tilt shift and swings both ends with all the digital distance scales, ....


Mine already does all that. :)


Kent in SD
Title: Re: Why upgrade?
Post by: NancyP on December 21, 2018, 11:50:57 am
The bag situation is pretty easy to explain. Packs that seem to work in the store can be awful at the end of long day of an 8 to 10 mile hike with photo stops. Why? Well, I found that my torso length is short, close to child-sized, and that the only packs that carry more than 5 pounds well (and I hike with about 4 pounds water and some other "10 essentials" stuff) are hiking/camping backpacks that are both sized and adjustable within that size range (women's extra-small to small). So, I need to get the photo-specific also-ran packs onto the photo club email list for sale. Now I have three sizes of panel-access hiking pack (25, 38, 55 liter) and 4 sizes of padded inserts, plus a super-reliable dry bag duffel with padded liner for kayak/canoe. The packs also serve as ordinary luggage - 25 liter pack fits under airline seat even in regional jets and between legs in 4 to 12 seat puddle-jumper prop planes, so the camera / 2 lenses / laptop is directly in sight at all times, and I don't have to sweat about getting an overhead bin. For casual walkabout use where the bag is on the ground more than on the shoulder, I have a used Domke bag bought from another photo club member who moved to Fuji and got smaller bag.

If my back or shoulders hurt, I am not happy. Fashion isn't a huge issue, I just try to find packs in any muted dark color.