Post by: Ivo_B on June 20, 2018, 11:30:49 am
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on June 20, 2018, 12:27:02 pm
Post by: Ivophoto on June 20, 2018, 04:39:31 pm
B&W please.
What would be the benefit to convert to B+W? Where do you see the gain, Slobodan? I can try it out.
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on June 20, 2018, 05:09:20 pm
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on June 21, 2018, 01:17:22 am
Post by: Ivophoto on June 21, 2018, 04:50:49 am
Color in this case introduces unnecessary distractions. B&W would allow you to darken and reduce contrast for everything but the girls (à la Eugene Smith). The same thing done with color just looks weird.
I will dig out the BW version. I remember I struggled with the red coke pub. Converting with red or orange filter made the pub to pale and overruled the girls. I give it another shot tonight and post the result.
Post by: Ivophoto on June 21, 2018, 05:01:44 am
I am not so fond of this one Ivo. It’s just don’t get it. First thing I thought was someone is going to run off with that bag.
I understand, this is probably an example of an image that needs context to survive.
It is shot on a black market. A very cumbersome social place where cheap and second hand is for sale. Live music is played in one hall and the fun is killed be the habituation of the regular customers.
These girls are there because mom is probably having fun shopping, ....
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on June 21, 2018, 05:03:30 am
Post by: Ivophoto on June 21, 2018, 05:33:08 am
Ah, OK. I didn’t get any of that at all. Thanks.
Than it is a fail, this image.
Post by: RSL on June 21, 2018, 09:40:52 am
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on June 21, 2018, 09:49:22 am
Than it is a fail, this image.
Hey you can’t take my opinion on it. I have been wrong about loads of stuff.
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on June 21, 2018, 10:06:21 am
This is the kind of thing Slobodan was suggesting...
Plus a Farmer’s reducer for the background ;)
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on June 21, 2018, 10:12:04 am
Plus a Farmer’s reducer for the background ;)
Wow. Haven’t heard that mentioned for a while. I think we slider for that now.
Post by: RSL on June 21, 2018, 10:22:04 am
Plus a Farmer’s reducer for the background ;)
Well, that's what Gene Smith would do, Slobodan, but the balance looks pretty good without it. Once the color's gone your eye jumps to the faces. And yes, Gene's post-processing almost always produced incredible art.
Post by: Ivophoto on June 21, 2018, 11:40:59 am
Wow. Haven’t heard that mentioned for a while. I think we slider for that now.
Well, I played with Farmer reducer in my analogue time. As well as I used pyro to develop.
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on June 21, 2018, 12:03:03 pm
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on June 21, 2018, 12:24:34 pm
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on June 21, 2018, 05:49:35 pm
Actually, I tried Farmer's reducer a couple of times, back in the middle of the previous century, but I never liked it.
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on June 21, 2018, 07:08:04 pm
C'mon guys, we must be confusing the hell out of kids reading this. There ARE youngsters on LuLa, right? Right!? ;)
Does young at heart count? ;)
Cheers,
Bart
Post by: Rayyan on June 22, 2018, 12:37:48 am
Post by: Ivophoto on June 22, 2018, 12:56:15 am
And this image is supposed to be a showcase for ‘ street ‘ at LuLa?
For me, yes it is. Maybe not the best, but it is. It asks more from the viewer than only looking to a running person in a street or a couple of baskets on a pile.
And I’m reacting not any further on this style of reaction. I know very well what street photography is.
Post by: Rayyan on June 22, 2018, 01:17:07 am
So ‘ street ‘ is what each one of us thinks it is.
Sort of wastes all the time I spent reading what is, should, might, could be ‘ street ‘ in LuLa threads.
And the names of photogs galore, mostly dead, which were thrown about as being associated with the masters of ‘ street ‘.
Please, it is not my intention to be rude or diss the image you or anyone posts; but unfortunately the image posted and the ensuing discussion in this thread, leaves me very confused.
And, for sure, I ascribe it mostly to my limited intellectual development and understanding. As a consequence, the image posted makes no sense to me; in a thread devoted to ‘ street ‘.
Not unlike images, I would make of my grandchildren; without any merit and of no significance
for anyone else but me.
For me, yes it is. Maybe not the best, but it is. It asks more from the viewer than only looking to a running person in a street or a couple of baskets on a pile.
And I’m reacting not any further on this style of reaction. I know very well what street photography is.
Post by: Ivophoto on June 22, 2018, 02:32:21 am
So ‘ street ‘ is what each one of us thinks it is.
Sort of wastes all the time I spent reading what is, should, might, could be ‘ street ‘ in LuLa threads.
And the names of photogs galore, mostly dead, which were thrown about as being associated with the masters of ‘ street ‘.
Please, it is not my intention to be rude or diss the image you or anyone posts; but unfortunately the image posted and the ensuing discussion in this thread, leaves me very confused.
And, for sure, I ascribe it mostly to my limited intellectual development and understanding. As a consequence, the image posted makes no sense to me; in a thread devoted to ‘ street ‘.
Not unlike images, I would make of my grandchildren; without any merit and of no significance
for anyone else but me.
Dear Fursan,
I respect your opinion.
And I understand that strict definition or boundary is an important guideline and framework for some.
It is not for me, I cross pass these boundaries on purpose.
I’m happy to reply to questions about why I keep this image, but I can’t do anything with your initial remark because I have a different mindset ( not better, not lesser)
Kind regards
Ivo
Post by: Ivophoto on June 22, 2018, 02:35:24 am
So ‘ street ‘ is what each one of us thinks it is.
Sort of wastes all the time I spent reading what is, should, might, could be ‘ street ‘ in LuLa threads.
No, it was not a waste of time. I did the same.
Your choice is to stay within the definition, my choice is to seek the boundaries and go over it.
Post by: drmike on June 22, 2018, 03:16:52 am
No, it was not a waste of time. I did the same.
Your choice is to stay within the definition, my choice is to seek the boundaries and go over it.
This is mainly a reply to Fursan.
I think the discussion was interesting as a discussion about photography but for myself I don't think you can apply hard rules and definitions to styles of photography.
Consequently I think those that spend ages categorising photographs and disputing their place within a forum are wasting their time :) while you followed an interesting discussion and possibly benefited.
Does anyone think a master like Martin Parr cares one bit if I think his empty parking spaces are fine art or street?
Mike
Post by: Rayyan on June 22, 2018, 03:24:52 am
Hello Ivo.
Thank you for your response.
I, too, disagree with the definitions that I have read, and inferred, about ‘ street ‘ on LuLa.
Most of what I would term ‘ street ‘ would fall outside the archaic, restrictive constraints that are in place.
To be honest, I neither have the time nor inclination to wander around the ‘ streets ‘ in search of ‘ the decisive moment ‘. I prefer the interaction of people with each other and/or their environment.
‘ street ‘ to me should more appropriately be loosely considered as ‘ public ‘. With the acceptance that ‘ public ‘ might not necessarily mean where people interact. And I do realize that different countries and cultures further restrict photography on the street or in public places.
Furthermore, I am not averse to photojournalism on the ‘ street ‘ as the boundaries are very fluid between the two.
I wish you the best in stretching the ‘ street ‘ boundaries. And don’t be alarmed if you find me hanging out there with you.
Kindest regards.
No, it was not a waste of time. I did the same.
Your choice is to stay within the definition, my choice is to seek the boundaries and go over it.
Post by: Rayyan on June 22, 2018, 03:30:42 am
Hi there Mike.
No disagreement to what you posted.
Not even to empty streets or car parks!
Take care.
This is mainly a reply to Fursan.
I think the discussion was interesting as a discussion about photography but for myself I don't think you can apply hard rules and definitions to styles of photography.
Consequently I think those that spend ages categorising photographs and disputing their place within a forum are wasting their time :) while you followed an interesting discussion and possibly benefited.
Does anyone think a master like Martin Parr cares one bit if I think his empty parking spaces are fine art or street?
Mike
Post by: Ivophoto on June 22, 2018, 04:21:22 am
And don’t be alarmed if you find me hanging out there with you.
Kindest regards.
It will be a pleasure, Fursan
Post by: RSL on June 22, 2018, 08:07:12 am
So ‘ street ‘ is what each one of us thinks it is.
Sort of wastes all the time I spent reading what is, should, might, could be ‘ street ‘ in LuLa threads.
Opgr said it best on the 19th, Fursan: ". . .if we establish a general concept like Haiku in poetry, and then make a forum specifically for Haiku, it seems rather odd to post sonnets there instead. It doesn't mean they are bad poems, but they might not receive the appreciation they perhaps deserve."
Problem is, "Haiku" has a pretty specific standard, though when I was getting Haiku published in "little" magazines there were a few deviations allowed from that standard. At least the basic definition was a poem. Unfortunately, "Street photography" means something that has nothing to do with a street.
Post by: OmerV on June 22, 2018, 09:34:45 am
Unfortunately, "Street photography" means something that has nothing to do with a street.
Russ, you’re a chameleon, maybe, in a good way. You’ve stated that “street photography” neededn’t be done on a real, like paved street. So in your statement above, the last word, “street,” is not meant to be the paved kind but the intention. Maybe? Not sure if I’ve got this right so,...
I was thinking of this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nGvu-F2GEKU/TuGGcJd8o8I/AAAAAAAAmH8/M4pHBM_5JHE/s640/The+Americans+by+Robert+Frank+%252815%2529.jpg
Post by: Rayyan on June 22, 2018, 10:21:29 am
Without any prejudice, I would like anyone interested to read the following article if you have not read it before...
Street Photography? (http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/08/07/what-is-street-photography-2/)
Russ, thanks for your response.
Post by: RSL on June 22, 2018, 10:43:37 am
Russ, you’re a chameleon, maybe, in a good way. You’ve stated that “street photography” neededn’t be done on a real, like paved street. So in your statement above, the last word, “street,” is not meant to be the paved kind but the intention. Maybe? Not sure if I’ve got this right so,...
I was thinking of this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nGvu-F2GEKU/TuGGcJd8o8I/AAAAAAAAmH8/M4pHBM_5JHE/s640/The+Americans+by+Robert+Frank+%252815%2529.jpg
I guess this chameleon doesn't understand what you're saying, Omer. I said that street photography means something that has nothing to do with a street, and you used one of Robert Frank's classic street shots from The Americans to illustrate that fact. ???? Help me out here. (Hasn't anything to do with urinals, either, by the way.)
Post by: RSL on June 22, 2018, 11:19:32 am
Without any prejudice, I would like anyone interested to read the following article if you have not read it before...
Street Photography? (http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/08/07/what-is-street-photography-2/)
Russ, thanks for your response.
Eric makes some good points in that article, Fursan, but mostly what he does is illustrate once again that you can't define the street photography genre with words. You need to become familiar with the photographs that defined it to understand what's involved. You can't really do that on the web. You have to sit down with the books, one of which is The Decisive Moment, and study what's there. And when you study The Decisive Moment you also have to realize that HCB's early work is street photography, but later on he became a photojournalist and was shooting photojournalism, not street. His later stuff, Ghandi's funeral for instance, is a long way from street even though it's still Henri's poetic soul at work.
It's sort of like the definition of Haiku. There's a lot of poetry that fits the supposed 5/7/5 rule that doesn't really fall within the spirit of Haiku. I once was a visitor at a lecture on Haiku at Colorado College given by a Japanese professor who was big in the Haiku world. One of the things he pointed out is that Haiku really has to be written in Japanese because the visual effect of the characters is part of the effect. But he bypassed that point and got into the spirit of Haiku, which, as he pointed out, is it's most important characteristic. He illustrated his lecture with examples, since Haiku is like street in that words can't really define the genre.
Here's an example of my own:
Silent house! Darkness!
Children breathing softly. Wind. . .
Outside in the night.
In Haiku, as in street photography, within the genre's meaning there's great stuff at its core, but as you move away from that core it becomes less great, then less good, then, finally, just plain crappy. If you run through the pictures in this section of LuLa you'll be treated to that entire panoply of stuff that calls itself street photography.
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on June 22, 2018, 11:59:58 am
To freeze the moment
In seventeen syllables
Is very diffi.
Jeremy
Post by: RSL on June 22, 2018, 12:10:11 pm
To freeze the moment
In seventeen syllables
Is very tricky
Post by: Ivophoto on June 22, 2018, 12:25:44 pm
Exactly the problem, Jeremy! But a better approach would be:
To freeze the moment
In seventeen syllables
Is very tricky
Or
To freeze the moment
In seventeen syllables
Is very silly
Post by: OmerV on June 22, 2018, 12:27:40 pm
I guess this chameleon doesn't understand what you're saying, Omer. I said that street photography means something that has nothing to do with a street, and you used one of Robert Frank's classic street shots from The Americans to illustrate that fact. ???? Help me out here. (Hasn't anything to do with urinals, either, by the way.)
Okay, guess I got confused by the double negative in your sentence:
“Unfortunately, "Street photography" means something that has nothing to do with a street.”
And no, urinals have nothing to do with anything. I know that you know the photograph is from The Americans, that’s why I linked to it. My point was that “street” does not mean on a street necessarily, a point which you have made a number of times. So, hey, we agree. In a chameleon sort of way.
Post by: RSL on June 22, 2018, 01:44:09 pm
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on June 22, 2018, 03:43:19 pm
Exactly the problem, Jeremy! But a better approach would be:
To freeze the moment
In seventeen syllables
Is very tricky
True. Both this and Ivo's are haiku and both make sense. But neither is funny.
Jeremy
Post by: RSL on June 22, 2018, 03:49:53 pm
Post by: Ivo_B on June 23, 2018, 03:29:24 am
Without any prejudice, I would like anyone interested to read the following article if you have not read it before...
Street Photography? (http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/08/07/what-is-street-photography-2/)
Russ, thanks for your response.
I was an early follower of Eric's work on Tumblr. At a certain moment I found his opinions about photography a ventilation of frustration and a bit bloated. And he shifts to be a guru (not only on photography) I guess it has to see with his high intelligence and his 'young' age. But he surely produce good photo's!
Take a look at his recent work and see what kind of photography he is doing in the series 'Only In America' (not the 'Bruce Gilden' copy cat work 'Color Street Portraits')
Personally, I like more Tatsuo Suzuki (http://tatsuosuzuki.com), because he is no nonsense, not bloated, but you have to dig in his work to find true gems!
Post by: OmerV on June 23, 2018, 08:39:17 am
Personally, I like more Tatsuo Suzuki (http://tatsuosuzuki.com), because he is no nonsense, not bloated, but you have to dig in his work to find true gems!
Well, he has a stylistic sense, but it borders on the kind of street fashion work done in the sixties. Most of Tatsuo’s subjects tend to be young, attractive females whom he portrays as emotionally withdrawn, but without the consequences of that isolation.
As both flickr and instagram have proven, photographing attractive people, especially teens, is an easy way of getting “liked.”
I do like this this one:
http://tatsuosuzuki.com/photo/52344/2938
Post by: RSL on June 23, 2018, 09:57:15 am
Post by: degrub on June 23, 2018, 01:09:35 pm
http://tatsuosuzuki.com/photo/52323/2938
make you wonder what the raven was thinking.
Frank
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on June 23, 2018, 01:15:34 pm
...make you wonder what the raven was thinking.
Thinking? Not much... happily singing along :)
Post by: Rob C on June 26, 2018, 11:24:40 am
I was an early follower of Eric's work on Tumblr. At a certain moment I found his opinions about photography a ventilation of frustration and a bit bloated. And he shifts to be a guru (not only on photography) I guess it has to see with his high intelligence and his 'young' age. But he surely produce good photo's!
Take a look at his recent work and see what kind of photography he is doing in the series 'Only In America' (not the 'Bruce Gilden' copy cat work 'Color Street Portraits')
Personally, I like more Tatsuo Suzuki (http://tatsuosuzuki.com), because he is no nonsense, not bloated, but you have to dig in his work to find true gems!
Thanks for the Tatsuo link; the guy defines street.
Rob
Post by: RSL on June 26, 2018, 04:17:57 pm