Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: DavidPalermo on June 17, 2018, 06:40:38 pm
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I print on mat paper with wide borders and would like to coat only the image area leaving the mat surface of the borders alone. Basically I want the image to look glossy or "wet" and the surrounding borders to retain it's mat look.
Today I tried a can of krylon "glossy" but it didn't work the way I expected it to. It also smells terrible! I think the label "glossy" meant it is to be used on glossy paper. The guy in the store said it would make wherever I sprayed have a glossy look but it doesn't.
Have any of you successfully tried what I want to do? What product did you use?
Thank you!
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Putting aside for a moment the question of whether you're likely to find any spray-on coating that gives a print on matte paper a "wet" look (which I interpret as meaning very glossy), the products to use or not use may depending on the ink you're spraying onto. What printer / ink are you using?
But more generally, I tend to suspect that you might do better just printing on a glossy or super-glossy paper and then using a matte-finish over-mat.
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I am using an Epson 3800 with UltraChrome inks. Printing on Hahnemuhle Bamboo paper.
I've thought about your idea about printing on glossy paper etc... and matting it etc.... that's not what I want to do.
If what I am asking cannot be done that's ok... I just want know if anyone here has had any success with this.
Thanks!
David
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I am using an Epson 3800 with UltraChrome inks. Printing on Hahnemuhle Bamboo paper.
I've thought about your idea about printing on glossy paper etc... and matting it etc.... that's not what I want to do.
If what I am asking cannot be done that's ok... I just want know if anyone here has had any success with this.
Thanks!
David
You have two separate requirements here, one to get a "wet" look and second the coating must only be on the printed area. So even if you get a spray you like, how are you going to restrict it precisely. Do you already have a process to do this (using a removable tape etc.) I also spent quite a bit of time and effort a long time ago before all these baryta papers came out. Nothing seemed worthwhile for a variety of reasons. One idea that I got the materials for but did not follow through was putting a layer of gloss optimizer using third party refillable ink and cartridge (the printer I was going to use for this purpose, an Epson 1280, died before I could carry out the experiments.) Anyway, that might be something you can try. This will take care of the second requirement as well. I don't know how much "wetness" you can get from a coat of the GO, though.
:Niranjan.
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An epoxy coating like the ones you can find at https://www.artresin.com/ will certainly give you that wet look but I am skeptical that you can apply it without having any spill over onto the matte part of the paper. Also, you should know that is it very hard to use these epoxy products without having any bubbles or slight waviness in the surface. But it definitely gives a great wet high gloss look that adds a lot of depth to your image.
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Don't know how well it would work for you, but this is designed for inkjet prints: https://www.lexjet.com/clearjet-original-type-a2000-3
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I print on mat paper with wide borders and would like to coat only the image area leaving the mat surface of the borders alone. Basically I want the image to look glossy or "wet" and the surrounding borders to retain it's mat look.
Today I tried a can of krylon "glossy" but it didn't work the way I expected it to. It also smells terrible! I think the label "glossy" meant it is to be used on glossy paper. The guy in the store said it would make wherever I sprayed have a glossy look but it doesn't.
Have any of you successfully tried what I want to do? What product did you use?
Thank you!
It does work.
You may need 4 or 5 coats though.
It will take 2 or 3 coats to seal the print. Once it is sealed it will start to build a gloss.
A much better (easier way) is to print on a high gloss paper. Then mount it to the heavier matte paper with a mounting adhesive similar to Print Mount Ultra.
If you go the spray route you will have to tape the image off to keep over spray off the borders. With all those coats you will have a builup of spray along the edges.
Not worth the effort in my opinion.
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5mil gloss laminate would be the best option. And I would recommend at least starting with a gloss paper, not matte.
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Thank you for all your suggestions! Some of you misunderstood me I think but it might be the way I explained it. I don't want any area on the mat paper to be glassy except the image so I cannot start with glossy paper. I realize I can print on glassy paper and cut the image out and then mount or glue it to mat paper but I want to find a way to paint on the print before I do any other option.
There is a photographer (Luis González Palma ) who paints on his Hahnemuhle mat paper to get a glossy look. I will explore his technique and see if I might apply it.
http://gonzalezpalma.com/actualidad2/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/faam10_60_gonzalez_palma.pdf. ("Virginal, 1993–2011, hand-painted photograph on Hahnemühle watercolor paper, 413⁄4 × 413⁄4 in., edition of 5."
There is a print of "Vriginal" hanging in my favorite restaurant just down the street from me! How lucky is that!???
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Thank you for all your suggestions! Some of you misunderstood me I think but it might be the way I explained it. I don't want any area on the mat paper to be glassy except the image so I cannot start with glossy paper. I realize I can print on glassy paper and cut the image out and then mount or glue it to mat paper but I want to find a way to paint on the print before I do any other option.
There is a photographer (Luis González Palma ) who paints on his Hahnemuhle mat paper to get a glassy look. I will explore his technique and see if I might apply it.
http://gonzalezpalma.com/actualidad2/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/faam10_60_gonzalez_palma.pdf. ("Virginal, 1993–2011, hand-painted photograph on Hahnemühle watercolor paper, 413⁄4 × 413⁄4 in., edition of 5."
There is a print of "Vriginal" hanging in my favorite restaurant just down the street from me! How lucky is that!???
David:
Nice...kind of like monochromatic Mona Lisa. I am intrigued....does he simply apply a clear paint on globally to give it a sheen or some reflective quality or does he actually create a texture/structure or even a tint to enhance his nearly painting-like photographs?
Also, I am wondering why do you need the borders to be matte. Does it add to the print visually to have that contrast of two different surfaces. Can you not reverse your process and print on a glossy paper like many suggested here, but coat a matte material on the border. There are also sprays available that will give a "flat" look. May be even white paints that could do the same. Just thinking out loud here...
After your post I decided to do an experiment with GO printing over matte paper. I own a Epson p400 which has a built-in GO channel. So I simply printed a white block with glossy paper parameters over an already printed Canson Photographique Rag paper . First coat, I could see that the area became a little darker - clearly dermarking the area from the rest of the print. Dmax probably went up but no "wet" look or added sheen. Printed 2 more times over the same area, got progressively darker, still no sheen to speak of. Canons have what they call Chroma Optimizer that might be different/better (or not.)
Finally, as I mentioned I pursued the same thing long time ago. One of things I tried that I came close to liking was applying a water-based "varnish" that painters use routinely (Liquitex High Gloss Varnish, for example.) If I remember the major problem with this was that the paper, being very porous and hydrophilic, sucked up the varnish too much resulting in a disfigured print. A solvent based varnish may work better in that respect.
Good luck. If you find something that works, please do share...
:Niranjan.
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I could print on glossy paper I suppose but I’m not sure what I’d use to make the surrounding border a nice mat texture. Anyway, I want to explore printing on mat paper and painting over the image part, keeping the surrounding part of the paper mat.
I stopped into the restaurant this morning and snapped a photo of the photo I mentioned above. It has beautiful brush strokes hopefully that you can see here. He uses asphaltum paint mixed with turpentine.
I bought some Liquitex gloss varnish that I’ll try on some test prints. I may have to spray a protectant on the image before applying the Liquitex.
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1st test looks good! It’s not dry yet but encouraging so far. I’ll let it dry then apply another coat.
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I could print on glossy paper I suppose but I’m not sure what I’d use to make the surrounding border a nice mat texture. Anyway, I want to explore printing on mat paper and painting over the image part, keeping the surrounding part of the paper mat.
I stopped into the restaurant this morning and snapped a photo of the photo I mentioned above. It has beautiful brush strokes hopefully that you can see here. He uses asphaltum paint mixed with turpentine.
I bought some Liquitex gloss varnish that I’ll try on some test prints. I may have to spray a protectant on the image before applying the Liquitex.
Thanks for those photos. Looks real good. I can see the texture. Almost like lacquer.
I forgot to mention, by the way, Liquitex works real good on canvas. Depending on the number of coats, you can make it look like a painting. I was going for a slight sheen and protection for displaying without glass so a couple of coats with diluted varnish seemed to do very well. I have not made those for some time so I forgot. On canvas, it also stayed largely at the surface so I didn't need any primer coat.
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1st test looks good! It’s not dry yet but encouraging so far. I’ll let it dry then apply another coat.
Damn, that looks awesome. I can see a little bit on the border - clearly a nice gloss. I wonder if I was using a wrong paper at the time that was super absorbent. Are you using Hahnemuhle? One thing great about the Liquitex is it is water-based with no smell, no need for ventilation etc and no waste spraying all over the place.
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So far I am pretty happy with it. Let's hope it's still "archival". I'm not worried about the borders at this point. I'm just testing on throw-away-prints. If this all works out I will make a stencil to keep the stuff on the image.
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So far I am pretty happy with it. Let's hope it's still "archival". I'm not worried about the borders at this point. I'm just testing on throw-away-prints. If this all works out I will make a stencil to keep the stuff on the image.
Considering this is used by painters (careful bunch) routinely, and the fact that it is simply an acrylic emulsion in water, my guess is it should be archival. I didn't mean to nit-pick about the border by the way. I was just pointing out that the effect of the coating was quite evident there too.
How did you apply it? Foam brush?
If those were throw away prints, I will take them... :)
:Niranjan.
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Thank you for your compliments! So, I just brushed on a second coat and I also coated one un-protected print to see if it has any adverse affect. The first ones I spray-coated with Hahnemuhle protective spray (https://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/protect-authenticate/hahnemuehle-protective-spray.html).
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I wonder if this is the same formula as the Liquitex Varnish?
https://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/protect-authenticate/hahnemuehle-varnish.html
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I wonder if this is the same formula as the Liquitex Varnish?
https://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/protect-authenticate/hahnemuehle-varnish.html
May or may not. Liquitex calls it an acrylic emulsion in water and lists no other ingredient and Hahnemuele calls it acrylic copolymer, but lists 6-8% of unspecified ingredients. I also notice that they are touting it as an UV protection coating. I suspect perhaps they have some other small molecules that are UV absorbents. I didn't see Liquitex making that claim. The base is most likely similar if not the same, perhaps an off-the-shelf item from the polymer industry.
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FYI...
According to Hahnemuhle:
"I checked with our Traditional FineArt rep, Joe Domeier, who is familiar with the Liquitex varnish. He thinks the results, using the Hahnemühle varnish should be very similar.
Both are acrylic varnishes, which leads him to think you will achieve similar results."
Hahnemuhle varnish does include UV protection.
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Good to know, thanks. Price-wise Liquitex seems a little cheaper but then Hahne has the UV protection.
If you don't mind, please keep us updated on your progress....
:Niranjan.
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I know the kind of look you're going for and I did a number of 24x30" prints a couple of years ago on Epson Cold Press Natural and coated them with Premier Eco Print Shield and then Satin. It had the more saturated look I was looking for and toughened up the surface, too. I liked the look.
In Canada we could only get the roll-on products - however, even if you can get the easier-to-apply spray your problem is how to mask the white border. With spray you could lay down some foam core scraps. With roll-on it will be tougher to get a sharp line.
http://www.ecoprintshield.com/
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Liquitex will have a UV blocking version too. Like Lascaux has. I doubt very much the UV blocking character if the varnish layer thickness is minimal like normally created with the spray cans. However the layer will reduce degradation of inks and OBAs but gases like oxygen and ozone. UV blocking agents in thicker varnish layers will be effective. Like done on matte canvasses and to create gloss on matte papers like discussed in this thread.
Never done it but my approach would be to use magnetic vinyl strips for the masking, steel plate underneath. Tape the joints between the magnetic strips. Spray a solvent version type varnish first lightly to close the surface and the gap between mask and paper. Either roll or pour a glossy varnish emulsion on top of that. Let it dry long. A UV curing or two component version could speed up the last step. Remove the masking. All over liquid laminations like that exist already. Longevity has never been tested properly.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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I tried Frog Tape but it stuck to the paper so I will return it. My next task will be to buy a few 8x10, 11x14 and 16x20in picture mats and use them as a masking template. I will place the mat over the print and line up the edges and paint inside the 8x10 cut-out area. Should work. I don't quite get the steel and vinyl solution you mentioned. I think even a metal ruler would work though I'd have to move it to each edge as I paint which doesn't sound good.
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I tried Frog Tape but it stuck to the paper so I will return it. My next task will be to buy a few 8x10, 11x14 and 16x20in picture mats and use them as a masking template. I will place the mat over the print and line up the edges and paint inside the 8x10 cut-out area. Should work. I don't quite get the steel and vinyl solution you mentioned. I think even a metal ruler would work though I'd have to move it to each edge as I paint which doesn't sound good.
Try using Post-it Notes. They are most likely to not to leave adhesive behind or rip the surface. You can get it in the tape form as well.
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Try using Post-it Notes. They are most likely to not to leave adhesive behind or rip the surface. You can get it in the tape form as well.
On microporous inkjet paper coatings, even the lowest tack adhesives like those used in Post-it notes are indeed likely to leave some residue. Does it matter? I have no clue. It will be an acrylic adhesive polymer not likely to yellow any time soon, so in that sense the residue may well remain colorless for as long as the image colorants resist fading and the paper resists yellowing, but again, the adhesive residue is still there, and longevity of the entire processing methodology becomes an unknown factor.
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Breathing Color Timeless Gloss, diluted 4 parts Timeless to 1 part de-ionised water. You can add a drop of Photo-Flo if you wish, for improved wetting.
Spray it onto printed matte paper with a HVLP sprayer. 5-6 coatings for high gloss, allowing each one to sink in, but not dry, before applying the next.
For extra-smooth results, after applying the final coating (which you may want to make slightly thicker than the others), sandwich it face-down against a sheet of teflon-coated glass. It will take on the ultra-smooth surface of the glass, and, due to the teflon coating, won't stick to it and will peel right off.
Works better for some papers than for others.
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For extra-smooth results, after applying the final coating (which you may want to make slightly thicker than the others), sandwich it face-down against a sheet of teflon-coated glass. It will take on the ultra-smooth surface of the glass, and, due to the teflon coating, won't stick to it and will peel right off.
That idea of using teflon coated glass is really interesting. Is that something you purchase or is there a spray or liquid that you can use to make your own? I see different Dupont products on Amazon but it is unclear if they are appropriate for this application.
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That idea of using teflon coated glass is really interesting. Is that something you purchase or is there a spray or liquid that you can use to make your own? I see different Dupont products on Amazon but it is unclear if they are appropriate for this application.
The spray-on dry lubricants containing Teflon work fine.
If you're doing a lot of it, you can also spray on a more permanent Teflon coating, but this needs to be baked on at 400 degrees Celcius, so isn't practical to do on large sheets of glass at home.
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Spray it onto printed matte paper with a HVLP sprayer. 5-6 coatings for high gloss, allowing each one to sink in, but not dry, before applying the next.
One last question. Is there a reason why you are using matte paper? I would have thought starting with a glossy paper would have given you the glossiest surface with the best dmax and most depth but I've never tried spraying photos so I have no idea.
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One last question. Is there a reason why you are using matte paper? I would have thought starting with a glossy paper would have given you the glossiest surface with the best dmax and most depth but I've never tried spraying photos so I have no idea.
The only thing that really matters in terms of glossiness is the smoothness and reflectiveness of the topmost layer, not what the underlying paper is like. Timeless won't sink into a glossy paper, so you need to use matte.
The other thing is, with some matte papers, you can get Timeless to sink so deep into the paper that it can't possibly delaminate - even if you try to peel it off, the entire image layer (and some of the paper) comes with it, fully intact.