Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: rollsman44 on June 12, 2018, 01:51:27 pm
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If you were looking for a Camera and Just 1 Lens for your personal use and mainly do portraits and some group shots using a 80mm 2.8 lens. Limited funds . I know all of these would work. Use Flash off camera and Max ISO 800. All suggestions appreciated.
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Hasselblad X1D + 90mm lens
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If I were starting from scratch I'd give the Fuji a shot. (I have a Pentax 645D and use it mainly with the 75/2.8. Great combo!)
-Dave-
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Any of those three cameras will make excellent pictures. Which do you prefer?
Personally I would steer clear of the Leica S 006. While the IQ is very good, it suffers from sensor corrosion and as far as I understand there is no permanent fix like there was for the M9. It's a time bomb.
I think the Pentax 645z is the most underrated medium format camera. It's exceptionally good and ridiculously cheap these days, the only expense is the extra bulk. But those who own it rave about it and say it is very well designed.
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I agree about the Leica. Also, The Pentax 645Z is an Excellent choice and the Lenses are reasonable and Very good IQ. I am going to see if the Z comes down in price. Its about the same price as the GFX. GFX newer Technology and Lighter but the Lenses are Much more, In time I will see what happens to the 645Z in price. Thank you
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I agree about the Leica. Also, The Pentax 645Z is an Excellent choice and the Lenses are reasonable and Very good IQ. I am going to see if the Z comes down in price. Its about the same price as the GFX. GFX newer Technology and Lighter but the Lenses are Much more, In time I will see what happens to the 645Z in price. Thank you
The Fuji and Hassy are novel mirrorless body and lens designs, which will scale well to 100Mp sensors and above in a few months and will probably have a 10-20 year run. The Pentax and its lenses, are now a good system approaching a dead end and new and used prices will evolve accordingly. Phase XF and Hassy H are in a similar position, but on all these dinosaurs one more refresh seems probable, as Sony’s sensors make the electronics redesign trivial
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it suffers from sensor corrosion
And the laisser aller of the CS...
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And the laisser aller of the CS...
the laconic master has spoken his mysterious words ...
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the laconic master has spoken his mysterious words ...
Laisser aller is not used in english? I think I heard it sometimes. C'est la vie mon ami.
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GFX with zoom...done...if you need to go longer, the 110 or 120 are both excellent and even with the 2 lenses should come in at about the same as XD1 with one...
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I reckon the only reason to wade into medium format digital these days is if it gets you a kit that can deliver something quite different in terms of working process or image quality than what you can get out of a high end full frame digital camera like the A7RII. What I am not sure about is what the CMOS system 645Z or Fuji GFX can do that the A7RII or similar high end full frame CMOS system cannot do for about half the price? Or if legacy MF digital CCD kits like the Leica S06 has some special magic that can deliver files with a very different look than the files out of a camera like the A7RII? If not we are just wasting money and time revolving deckchairs that perhaps could be better used photographing?
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I would go for a Sony a7rIII, eye AF is such a great feature for portrait work.
Second best choice would be the X1D with its excellent leaf shutter lenses. If you shoot at f5.6/f8, this becomes the first choice I believe.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I reckon the only reason to wade into medium format digital these days is if it gets you a kit that can deliver something quite different in terms of working process or image quality than what you can get out of a high end full frame digital camera like the A7RII. What I am not sure about is what the CMOS system 645Z or Fuji GFX can do that the A7RII or similar high end full frame CMOS system cannot do for about half the price? Or if legacy MF digital CCD kits like the Leica S06 has some special magic that can deliver files with a very different look than the files out of a camera like the A7RII? If not we are just wasting money and time revolving deckchairs that perhaps could be better used photographing?
i would take the leica out of this discussion....price (especially lenses) is in a completely different league and performance is not there once you take off the red dotted glasses.....
the sony (or nikon) is very close in IQ and obviously has major advantages....
the price difference really is not that big anymore.....GFX plus zoom should be around 8K soon, A7RIII plus zoom is about 5500....yes, still a good chunk but there is a difference in IQ....but for 95% of applications the sony, nikon will probably be the easier and better cameras....
it will be hard to find a review that puts the X1D over the GFX, especially when taking the lenses into consideration....not saying there is a lot between them, it's more a matter of taste and a certain brand nostalgia....
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it will be hard to find a review that puts the X1D over the GFX, especially when taking the lenses into consideration....not saying there is a lot between them, it's more a matter of taste and a certain brand nostalgia....
If anything the X1D lenses have overall been reviewed as being slightly superior to the Fuji ones I would say (themselves excellent). But these 2 lenses sets are the best there are in any format IMHO, so trying to tell them apart is mostly a moot point.
We live in a great era really. The freedom of lens design offered by mirrorless combined with various progress made in terms of lens design simulation, test benches, manufacturing techniques,... are opening totally new opportunities.
Cheers,
Bernard
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If anything the X1D lenses have overall been reviewed as being slightly superior to the Fuji ones I would say (themselves excellent). But these 2 lenses sets are the best there are in any format IMHO, so trying to tell them apart is mostly a moot point.
We live in a great era really. The freedom of lens design offered by mirrorless combined with various progress made in terms of lens design simulation, test benches, manufacturing techniques,... are opening totally new opportunities.
Cheers,
Bernard
i definitely agree with you about us living in great times....choices all around, different formats and lots of glass to use on all kinds of bodies....
my own experience with testing the X1D lenses was so so at best which ended up (reluctantly) pointing me towards the fuji....can you share a few reviews? i have read a lot but must have missed all the ones putting them ahead of the fujis....
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i definitely agree with you about us living in great times....choices all around, different formats and lots of glass to use on all kinds of bodies....
my own experience with testing the X1D lenses was so so at best which ended up (reluctantly) pointing me towards the fuji....can you share a few reviews? i have read a lot but must have missed all the ones putting them ahead of the fujis....
The one that comes to my mind right now is that by Loyd Chambers, but I believe I read others too.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I have the S 006 and just spent a few weeks testing a GFX that a friend lent me. In terms of quality of output, they are not so far apart. Personally, I found the S to have more pleasing color, while the GFX had a slight edge on detail and snap at times. I felt that the raw files looked like they had 10 more points of clarity than the S. (Adding 10 points to the S made them extremely close). I think this is just how they have decided to tune their RAW output. The files were done in Lightroom. I found that the 63mm lens in the Fuji was excellent and sharp in nearly all situations. The 70mm from Leica has a bit more pleasing bokeh, but on landscape images it is a bit trickier to handle at times if the subject matter is very distance, as it has some field curvature (the sharpest areas are not equidistant to the camera). I would prefer the Leica 70mm for portraits. Personally I much prefer the handling of the Leica S, both in the interface and in the optical viewfinder. The EVF in the Fuji is not what I would consider great...both the A7Rii and Leica M10 EVF seem better to me. The interface in the GFX is not bad, and there are some nice touches, but I prefer the way Leica has set up the S. Tastes differ. In terms of sheer quality of output, given time to tweak everything in RAW conversion, I would give the edge to the GFX. It is, of course, something like five or six years newer. But if you asked me which camera I would prefer to use and work with, it would still be the S by a mile. The GFX is where the future is headed, but I still think there are too many compromises, especially around the EVF, which is really critical -- the viewfinder is our contact to the subject matter, it needs to communicate a huge amount of information more or less instantly and with as little disruption as possible. I have yet to see an EVF that could do that satisfyingly, not even from a camera like the SL. Meanwhile, SLR's, RF's and large format cameras do this nearly perfectly. I take the best pictures with the cameras I feel disappear in use...cameras like a good 4x5 camera, Mamiya 7ii, Leica S, Hasselblad 200 series, a Konica Hexar....all those cameras don't get in the way of the relationship between the photographer and the subject. For me all the EVF cameras I have owned or used could not meet that criteria. They might have beautiful output and a lot of great things going for them, but at the end of the day, you are still watching low quality screen image of the subject, as opposed to the directly reflected, unfiltered light coming off of it. I think this is not that important for everyone. For me it still is.
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Stuart this is very helpful advice.
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mainly do portraits and some group shots using a 80mm 2.8 lens. Limited funds .
why MF then at all ? is there something in 50mp MF so better for the stated purposes than 42-46-50mp dSLR or dSLM from Sony, Nikon or Canon ? used Sony A7R2 you can have for <= $1500 for example and its Eye AF will still run circles around all MF Fuji, Pentax or Leica...
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is there something in 50mp MF so better for the stated purposes than 42-46-50mp dSLR or dSLM from Sony, Nikon or Canon ?
+1
I wish there was but suspect there isn't... apart from completely different ergonomics, like writing with a pencil instead of typing.
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why MF then at all ? is there something in 50mp MF so better for the stated purposes than 42-46-50mp dSLR or dSLM from Sony, Nikon or Canon ? used Sony A7R2 you can have for <= $1500 for example and its Eye AF will still run circles around all MF Fuji, Pentax or Leica...
the files from the 50mpix chip are a very small but noticeable step up from A7RIII and D850.....A7RII, 810 and canon are a little further behind (all for different reasons)...we can argue about sharpness (a lot depends on lenses) and detail , maybe even DR but there is definitely more room for adjustments in post....for 95% of all applications the smaller cameras will be a much better choice...and even for the last 5% the real advantage is debatable....
that does not mean that there is no difference and i simply prefer the files.....
the next 100mpix chips will be better all around and will hopefully help narrow the gap in terms of AF but the A7RIII and D850 will still be a better choice for 95% of applications just because these cameras are so great already......and for me the difference between the existing 50mpix cameras and the future 100 pix models will mostly be what i will be able to do with the files afterwards....better color for post and more room for cropping....better AF would be nice but i fine working with the GFX now, so that is bonus....
there are plenty of raw files available for download from all systems....
there is no magic to any of these systems...so pixel peeping with raws shows what one camera can do over the other.....
optical vs EVF is personal preference.....to me the choice has been clear for a while....
there are situations and applications that have specific needs....the 4shot file from the sony A7RIII is clearly more detailed then one shot from the 50mpix.....so if that is something that might work for one person, the answer is simple and the solution is cheaper.....
for wide open and fast moving people and situations, none of the DMF systems can compete.....and the minor advantages in IQ will completely pointless......
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I sold off my Phase One IQ180 kit for a Nikon D850, it's plenty good
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Hi Bernard,
I have not seen some good tests on the X1D lenses, while there were a lot of very good tests by Jim Kasson on the Fuji lenses.
Hasselblad traditionally publishes MTF data for their lenses, and they are pretty excellent. Fuji's MTF data they publish is probably calculated.
My impression is that Hasselblad has priority on compact lenses while Fuji makes lenses a bit larger.
Another consideration may that Hasselblad has leaf shutters while the GFX has focal plane shutter. LS allows for a lot of flexibility for flash while the focal plane shutter allows for a great variety of lens options.
I would guess that Hasselblad puts more effort in the X1 system than in the H-system? What is your take?
Best regards
Erik
If anything the X1D lenses have overall been reviewed as being slightly superior to the Fuji ones I would say (themselves excellent). But these 2 lenses sets are the best there are in any format IMHO, so trying to tell them apart is mostly a moot point.
We live in a great era really. The freedom of lens design offered by mirrorless combined with various progress made in terms of lens design simulation, test benches, manufacturing techniques,... are opening totally new opportunities.
Cheers,
Bernard
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the files from the 50mpix chip are a very small but noticeable step up from A7RIII and D850.....A7RII, 810 and canon are a little further behind (all for different reasons)...we can argue about sharpness (a lot depends on lenses) and detail , maybe even DR but there is definitely more room for adjustments in post....for 95% of all applications the smaller cameras will be a much better choice...and even for the last 5% the real advantage is debatable....
that does not mean that there is no difference and i simply prefer the files.....
the next 100mpix chips will be better all around and will hopefully help narrow the gap in terms of AF but the A7RIII and D850 will still be a better choice for 95% of applications just because these cameras are so great already......and for me the difference between the existing 50mpix cameras and the future 100 pix models will mostly be what i will be able to do with the files afterwards....better color for post and more room for cropping....better AF would be nice but i fine working with the GFX now, so that is bonus....
there are plenty of raw files available for download from all systems....
there is no magic to any of these systems...so pixel peeping with raws shows what one camera can do over the other.....
optical vs EVF is personal preference.....to me the choice has been clear for a while....
there are situations and applications that have specific needs....the 4shot file from the sony A7RIII is clearly more detailed then one shot from the 50mpix.....so if that is something that might work for one person, the answer is simple and the solution is cheaper.....
for wide open and fast moving people and situations, none of the DMF systems can compete.....and the minor advantages in IQ will completely pointless......
OP stated a very specific case = "Just 1 Lens for your personal use and mainly do portraits and some group shots using a 80mm 2.8 lens. Limited funds . I know all of these would work. Use Flash off camera and Max ISO 800." , not sure where the " noticeable step up " from any of 40+ mp dSLR/dSLM will be there ;D ... not in DR for sure... resolution will be barely noticeable even in staged tests with targets... and I doubt that he has cash to jump into not yet released 100mp brand new MF dSLMs (44x33mm class - not the likes of P1 backs)
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OP stated a very specific case = "Just 1 Lens for your personal use and mainly do portraits and some group shots using a 80mm 2.8 lens. Limited funds . I know all of these would work. Use Flash off camera and Max ISO 800." , not sure where the " noticeable step up " from any of 40+ mp dSLR/dSLM will be there ;D ... not in DR for sure... resolution will be barely noticeable even in staged tests with targets... and I doubt that he has cash to jump into not yet released 100mp brand new MF dSLMs (44x33mm class - not the likes of P1 backs)
as i said earlier, the GFX with the 32-64 zoom will cover it perfectly and better then the pentax and definitely leica....
but i would recommend a A7RIII or D850 over either system.....
what i meant to say about the not yet released 100mpix systems is that even those wont be that big of a step up over the existing sony or nikon solutions for the applications he described....
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I decided on the Fuji GFX 50 and the 63/2.8 for now. Thank you everyone for all your input
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I decided on the Fuji GFX 50 and the 63/2.8 for now. Thank you everyone for all your input
Now that you've had it for a few weeks what do you think ?
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I decided on the Fuji GFX 50 and the 63/2.8 for now. Thank you everyone for all your input
Great choice! You won't regret!
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Image Quality is Fantastic. The camera and the lens is Not heavy. I shot my nieces wedding with the GFX and the colors were awesome