Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: deliberate1 on April 08, 2018, 10:42:23 pm

Title: Why does this work: screen to print match without paper profile
Post by: deliberate1 on April 08, 2018, 10:42:23 pm
I have been printing with an Epson 7800 for well over ten years. And during that time I have tried myriad papers with standard soft proof workflow in PS CS5, mostly using the Epson profiles for their papers, or canned profiles for third party media. Printer settings  instruct the use of Photoshop to manage colors based on the assigned profile. I think I am doing it right. And usually the results are generally disappointing, either with color mismatch, or wacky tonality or both. Not a monitor issue, as I have a professional grade NEC screen which I calibrate on a regular basis.
After much trial and error, I have found a workflow that gives me consistently excellent results, but I do not know why. Rather than involve Photoshop in the printer driver, I use the ICM Advanced setting, with Adobe 1998 and Relative Colorimetric instructions. The printer controls the colors, and the only "profile"  referenced on the main print page is the "Document," which designates "Profile ProPhoto RGB." No paper profile in sight.
Just this weekend, I printed up an image with new Hahnemuhle paper and used the canned profile. And the results were disappointing. I then went back to my old workflow, and the got dead on screen match in color and tonality. The results were even better when I recalibrated the monitor with a brightness reduced for 140 to 120.
So I can only say that this works brilliantly for me. I just do not know why. I am shooting Raw files, first doing color and tonality adjustments in LR4, with an export to CS5 for more intensive work.
Not looking to change this workflow. Just curious why it works.
Obliged.
David
Title: Re: Why does this work: screen to print match without paper profile
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on April 09, 2018, 07:46:06 am
This topic has been discussed ad nauseum over on the Color Management section of this forum.  I suggest you go over there and read some of the comments.  You will likely receive some very pointed comments to your question from some longtime contributors.
Title: Re: Why does this work: screen to print match without paper profile
Post by: deliberate1 on April 09, 2018, 09:52:35 am
This topic has been discussed ad nauseum over on the Color Management section of this forum.  I suggest you go over there and read some of the comments.  You will likely receive some very pointed comments to your question from some longtime contributors.

Will do.
Title: Re: Why does this work: screen to print match without paper profile
Post by: digitaldog on April 09, 2018, 10:25:22 am
ICC printer profiles have two tables; one for the actual output, one for the soft proof. In a perfect world, they would be in sync. This isn't a perfect world and not all ICC profiles are created equally. And that's another reason having a color reference display system that allows you to calibrate multiple ways, for differing output (and profiles), like NEC SpectraView is so ideal.

Not all ICC profiles are created equally

In this 23 minute video, I'll cover:
The basic anatomy of ICC Profiles
Why there are differences in profile quality and color rendering
How to evaluate an ICC output profile
Examples of good and not so good canned profiles and custom profiles on actual printed output.


High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Not_All_Profiles_are_created_equally.mp4 (http://digitaldog.net/files/Not_All_Profiles_are_created_equally.mp4)
Low resolution (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdR_tIFMME&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdR_tIFMME&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Why does this work: screen to print match without paper profile
Post by: deliberate1 on April 09, 2018, 12:50:17 pm
ICC printer profiles have two tables; one for the actual output, one for the soft proof. In a perfect world, they would be in sync. This isn't a perfect world and not all ICC profiles are created equally. And that's another reason having a color reference display system that allows you to calibrate multiple ways, for differing output (and profiles), like NEC SpectraView is so ideal.

Not all ICC profiles are created equally

In this 23 minute video, I'll cover:
The basic anatomy of ICC Profiles
Why there are differences in profile quality and color rendering
How to evaluate an ICC output profile
Examples of good and not so good canned profiles and custom profiles on actual printed output.


High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Not_All_Profiles_are_created_equally.mp4 (http://digitaldog.net/files/Not_All_Profiles_are_created_equally.mp4)
Low resolution (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdR_tIFMME&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdR_tIFMME&feature=youtu.be)


Rodney,
Obliged for the link. I will spend some time with "you" this evening.
Best.
David
Title: Re: Why does this work: screen to print match without paper profile
Post by: Doug Gray on April 09, 2018, 03:16:19 pm
Might be useful to have more info. Like what computer, OS, driver settings. There are differences between Macs and Win. as well as multiple selections under the (Windows) ICM tab. I have Win. and a 9800 (same drivers) and can provide specific info for that combination.