Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: mcbroomf on March 30, 2018, 08:23:11 am
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(4/13/2018 : Title modified to reflect discussion of other brands)
(8/13/2018 : Title modified to reflect 2 in 1 or clamshell laptops)
At CES this year Dell announced a new 2 in 1 version of the XPS 15. It would have the new Intel i7 with the CPU/GPU chip, GPU courtesy of AMD. I had my eye on it as I want to upgrade my laptop which is pretty pedestrian on LR and PS and with a 13" screen I find a little too small. I want a 2 in 1 with touchscreen that would fold as well, and it comes with an option of 32GB of RAM which I would spring for.
It's just been released and in addition (or maybe I missed it in the original brief) it has a 4k anti-glare screen that covers 100% Adobe RGB. So far as I know most if not all 4k laptop touchscreens on the market are glossy.
For me this seems to check all the boxes as a fast LR/PS mobile editing tool. I don't see the 32GB RAM option yet, and I've been burned as an early adopter so I will wait for a few months ...
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I checked this out last night after I read your post. Looks REALLY nice. I've been looking at three or four other notebooks to replace my 4 year old Asus. (The others are the Asus Zenbook UX550VE, the Surface Book 2, and the Lenovo 720 -- though the 730 was just announced.) The one thing I'm disappointed about is that ALL the ports are USB-C. I would have liked it if the XPS had at least 2 USB-A ports for my TON of legacy USB 3.0 drives. This necessitates having to buy (at obviously additional costs) a USB hub. Otherwise, the specs look great... though it's about $800 higher than the Zenbook.
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You can get cables with USB-C at one end and USB-A at the other, I use several with my current HP despite having both ports on it.
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I've started to convert over to Thunderbolt and USB-c. My new desktop has 2 TB3 ports and my old XPS13 has a TB3. I use a Blackbird USB-c dual SSD drive dock on the road and in addition to a NAS a 4 bay TB3 enclosure at home. I still have some old USB A type devices and use C-A cables rather than a dock, but I think if I used my laptop for primary editing at home that's what I'd get in any case (a dock) to avoid constant wear on the ports.
I'm still waiting for the 32GB version to show up.
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You can get cables with USB-C at one end and USB-A at the other, I use several with my current HP despite having both ports on it.
Yeah, I found some C to full-size B and micro B USB cables. That would certainly work. Thanks for the suggestion.
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If a 2 in 1 is not needed then I noticed that Dell are about to release the 2018 standard version of the XPS 15. It doesn't have the i7 "G" processor with the CPU/AMD graphic chip, it uses a separate GTX 1050 (not sure if thee are other options) and also up to the newer i9 CPU. Like the 2 in 1 it should be offered with 32GB RAM (still not there for the 2 in 1). Supposed to be available for ordering mid April.
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If a 2 in 1 is not needed then I noticed that Dell are about to release the 2018 standard version of the XPS 15. It doesn't have the i7 "G" processor with the CPU/AMD graphic chip, it uses a separate GTX 1050 (not sure if thee are other options) and also up to the newer i9 CPU. Like the 2 in 1 it should be offered with 32GB RAM (still not there for the 2 in 1). Supposed to be available for ordering mid April.
For those who don’t care as much about a 4K screen and touch in a laptop, I just got an email from MSI. They are introducing a killer laptop (or so it seems). If I remember correctly, it’s called the G65 Thin, weighs about 4.1 lbs, 1080 screen (no touch), BUT uses a 6 core i7. Also, can be had with either the GTX 1060 or 1070. It’s about .7 thick overall and supposedly has an 8-hr battery life and small brick charger. The specs certainly sound interesting. Guess we’ll have to watch for reviews. B&H has it for pre-order so you can see more online. Also a plethora or ports.
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......
I'm still waiting for the 32GB version to show up.
Just saw that it will be Q4 before the 32GB RAM option is available
https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/980865737207238657
I might try the 16GB version and see if it has enough oomph. It would certainly save me some money if it can do well enough
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The hits keep coming. I just read about the new HP Studio x360. It's also available with a 6-core i7 and also, like the Dell, comes with a 4K matte touch screen. Decisions, decisions, decisions. I had hoped to get a new laptop by the end of April, or certainly by the beginning of May. Now I may have to wait to see what reviews come out since there are a lot of nice choices, all less expensive than the very nice Surface Book 2.
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This is definitely going to make me wait. I thought Dell were the only one out there with combo of 2 in 1, anti glare and 32GB. I imagine it's a typo but CNET is saying their 4k Dreamcolour display only offers 100% sRGB, while Engadget are saying 100% Adobe RGB tbd no doubt. Also 600 NITs though which I think is a good bit brighter than the Dell. This is handy as I occasionally find myself outdoor trying to show images (casually) and it's usually a losing proposition.
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It was a typo or just incomplete. The HP website says 99 or 100% AdobeRGB. The brightness is nice, but I honestly don't use mine more than about 200-250 nits because I'm doing everything for print reproduction. (i1 would default to 150 if i let it. My NEC monitors I use 200.) For me, 16GB is enough RAM since I really just use the laptop on location and have a well equipped desktop at home.
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Here's a link to the datasheet that lists all of the options for the HP ZBook Studio x360
http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=4AA7-2495ENUC&jumpid=in_r12139__us/en/psg/hp_zbook_studio_x360_workstation_mdp/resources/datasheet
(4/13/2018 : Title modified to reflect discussion of other brands)
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We should see the new Dell workstations before too long as well.
Ill probably be picking up either a Dell or HP this year, I'll be looking hard at their international service / warranties though as im abroad so much. Id rather lose a bit of performance and have stellar service.
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I keep looking at the specs for the new MSI GS65 Stealth Thin, and it seems very appealing. so far, it hasn't been released anywhere in the country yet, though i did stumble upon a review a little while back. B&H has it listed, but no further info as to the release date. I almost pulled the trigger on the XPS 15 2-in1, but by the time I added tax and the pen, it was almost as expensive as the Microsoft Surface Book 2. I think I'll wait to see what comes along in the next month. My notebook is down to two working USB 3 ports, so the writing is on the wall.
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I just saw this on Engadget. Not sure what the functional differences will be with the XPS version.
"Dell has unveiled its new professional PC lineup, and among them was the intriguing 15-inch Precision 5530 2-in-1. Dell calls it the "world's smallest 15-inch 2-in-1 workstation," and it packs a lot of nice specs into a small, 4.36 pound body. Most interestingly, though, it comes with up to Intel's Core i7-8706G with "Radeon Pro WX Vega M GL graphics" -- the first mention of a "Pro WX" version of Intel and AMD's new compact chipset.
Other specs include 32GB of RAM max, up to 2TB of SSD storage, two Thunderbolt 3 and two USB-C 3.1 ports (that also charge it), and an all-new InfinityEdge 4K with 10-point multi-touch, optional active pen support, and 100 percent Adobe RGB coverage. In other words, the Precision 5530 2-in-1 is aimed at graphics professionals, not gamers."
https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/25/dell-2-in-1-precision-5530-radeon-pro-wx/
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For those with TB3, the Sonnet eGFX Pucks look interesting, especially for someone who has 2 large monitors but wants something they can walk around with. It adds GPU horsepower via the AMD XConnect.
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/egfx-breakaway-puck.html
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For those with TB3, the Sonnet eGFX Pucks look interesting, especially for someone who has 2 large monitors but wants something they can walk around with. It adds GPU horsepower via the AMD XConnect.
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/egfx-breakaway-puck.html
Interesting concept. I know a few MacBook users who don’t have desktops who could probably use that.
On this topic. I almost pulled the trigger to get the new XPS 15 2-in-1. Who knows? Maybe I was saved. I couldn’t get it before I leave on my next big shoot next week. I’m still torn between that and the MSI GS65. The question is truly, do I want 4K touch and all c-ports in something that occasionally can be a large tablet (good for the plane/movies/cramped seats), or go with FHD, and no touch, but beefier CPU and GPU? The hard thing to reconcile is that the MSI, when fully configured is the same cost as the Dell.
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I saw 12% off the Dell XPS15 2 in 1 yesterday (still there) and thought about getting the 16GB version (with 4k screen) to see if it might do the job even though I want the 32GB version. I also held off. I'll be pounding my old XPS13 in a few weeks while away for a week, the 1st time since the LR upgrade that improved performance, so I'll see how it does (it also has 16GB) and if much better then I might get the current version ...
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Had the XPS 15 notebook for 2 weeks. Old Sony vaio 8 gb laptop and dell all in one 8gb desktop really bogged down with newest lr/ps cc update. Got 4 k with 32gb. Pricey but really a screamer. Slave it to desktop monitor but may just upgrade to solo monitor. High memory stuff like hdr and panos no problems at all. So far extremely happy with the upgrade. Routine optimization in lr and photoshop instantaneous.
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Had the XPS 15 notebook for 2 weeks. Old Sony vaio 8 gb laptop and dell all in one 8gb desktop really bogged down with newest lr/ps cc update. Got 4 k with 32gb. Pricey but really a screamer. Slave it to desktop monitor but may just upgrade to solo monitor. High memory stuff like hdr and panos no problems at all. So far extremely happy with the upgrade. Routine optimization in lr and photoshop instantaneous.
Sounds promising. Any buggyness? Driver problems etc? I returned an early XPS13, XPS12 and Surface book and one other make I can't remember a couple of years ago due to some odd things that I wasn't confident would be fixed (properly). I rebought the XPS13 when it appeared they were solved.
Just have to wait now for the 32GB 2 in 1 version ...
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Had the XPS 15 notebook for 2 weeks. Old Sony vaio 8 gb laptop and dell all in one 8gb desktop really bogged down with newest lr/ps cc update. Got 4 k with 32gb. Pricey but really a screamer. Slave it to desktop monitor but may just upgrade to solo monitor. High memory stuff like hdr and panos no problems at all. So far extremely happy with the upgrade. Routine optimization in lr and photoshop instantaneous.
So, Is that the XPS 15 2-in-1, or the older XPS 15 (2017). The new XPS 15 isn't being released until May 22, I thought I read.
I've owned several Asus notebooks and always been really happy with them. I seriously thought about the ZenBook Pro 15, but then realized a whole slew of new notebooks were being released based on the newer CPUs. I just came across the ZenBook update. It sounds good. The new i9-8750H hex core, nut even better, the UHD screen is 100% AdobeRGB. I'm glad I delayed getting a new laptop. Now I think I'm still between the XPS 2-in-1 and the yet to be released ZenBook.
https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ASUS-ZenBook-Pro-15-UX550GE/
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Ha choices ...
It looks like the Asus has the i9 8950HK rather than the i8750H. Here's a comparison. Prices not available but the i9 CPU's have had eye watering prices in desktops so not sure what the Asus will come in at. It's also not a 2 in 1 so far as I could tell (?) so maybe a comparison to the New XPS 15 might be appropriate. So far as I can tell (comparing 16GB versions) the adder to go to a 2 in 1 is $300 for the Dell but you can't configure the same CPU/GPU (and I think the 2 in 1 is better)
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-8950HK-vs-Intel-Core-i7-8750H/m486215vsm470418
If Sam's model is last years then that bodes well for the newer version with the i7-8k chip.
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Found the cost of the i9 8950HK, $583, about $200 more than the i7 8750H ($395), so not nearly as big a difference as the i7 vs i9 desktop prices.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12607/intel-expands-8th-gen-core-core-i9-on-mobile-iris-plus-desktop-chipsets-and-vpro/2
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This is all very useful, but... My existing windows laptop, admittedly about 6 years old, works well and has an early i7 processor but the screen is not good in that the view changes with angle, both side to side and up and down. This means that the brightness and contrast vary according to how I tilt the screen. What is the screen like on the machines? At the moment I am inclining to a Mac but am open to persuasion.
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Another entry to the 15" market, by Razer. 32GB RAM available (user replaceable), i7 8750H, GTX 1060 or GTX 1070 graphics card. 3 different screens with the 4k version having touch and 100% Adobe RGB
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/22/17378790/razer-blade-2018-update-bezels-15-inch-display-gaming-laptop-nvidia-max-q-redesign-intel
https://www.razer.com/comparisons/blade-15
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Another entry to the 15" market, by Razer. 32GB RAM available (user replaceable), i7 8750H, GTX 1060 or GTX 1070 graphics card. 3 different screens with the 4k version having touch and 100% Adobe RGB
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/22/17378790/razer-blade-2018-update-bezels-15-inch-display-gaming-laptop-nvidia-max-q-redesign-intel
https://www.razer.com/comparisons/blade-15
It looks like whomever developed the 4K AdobeRGB screen is making a killing. Seems any company serious about wider color gamut has that screen. Except Apple. I think they are still mired in sRGB+.
Glad I decided to hold out for replacing my notebook till later in the summer. There’s an “embarrassment of riches” for PC notebooks coming out — powerful CPUs, powerful GPUs and AdobeRGB gamut.
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To continue the discussion of photo editing on some of the new notebooks the XPS 15 I ordered last week (clamshell not 2 in 1) showed up yesterday.
Dell XPS 15, i7 8750, 32GB (2666), 1TB NVMe and the 4k Infinity Edge screen (touch) with 4GB GTX 1050 Ti GPU.
Some observations so far;
30 mins or less to set up Win 10, LR and PS downloaded soon after. No screen calibration yet and I only need a few more programs. I won't load MS Office until I know I'm going to keep it.
This morning I went out for a couple of hours and took some photos to see how LR performs. On Prime day I had bought a pair of 2TB Sandisk Exteme Portable SSD's. Tiny, USB-3 and about $300 off at the time, so I plugged one of them into the TB3 port to copy the images onto (on all of my PC's I keep images on external drives and keep C pretty small). Blue screen ... argh! ... restarted OK and has not repeated, so perhaps an issue invoking or finding the driver? No idea. I do have the 2nd one to try, but both have worked OK on my other PCs. This has been the only issue I've seen so far.
I used LR to copy and import 225 images from 3 SD cards onto the Sandisk SSD. The LR catalog was new, not from my desktop, and left on the C drive. The files were a mix of 42mp files from two Sony A7R3's and 16mp from a Sony Nex 5R. All imports went smoothly and nice and fast. The laptop has an SD card reader on the side (also 2 USB 3 type A ports and one TB 3 and an HDMI), I'd guess the reader uses the USB 3 interface as imports were much faster than on my older desktop that had USB 2 and probably about the same speed as my newer desktop that has an external USB 3 card reader.
I processed a few straight images. No lag that I noticed while moving sliders, then processed 3 HDR images from the 42mp files, one of them from 3 shots, 2 from 5 shots, then a 14 shot pano. The previews came up fast, maybe not as fast as my desktop but way faster than my old one that had an i7 4790/32GB. Once I OK'd it the processing of the files to a dng was also very fast. Sorry I have no measurements but even the 14 file pano was quick. No time to get to the kitchen to start a cup of coffee, let alone sit and drink.
In every case the fan kicked on almost as soon as the CPU got to work, although it turned off or down once the files were processed. It's not a quiet fan. I had the laptop on a counter so I don't know how hot it was and didn't think to check, but considering how fast the images processed I doubt it would have been uncomfortable if I'd had it on my lap. When the processing was done the dng displayed quickly. Something my old desktop would take a long time thinking about.
When I turned on the Task Manager to look at the CPU I noticed that the system was using 17GB of memory. Later I had the TM open when I started an HDR merge and saw it pop up to 20GB, then down to 18GB. It stayed there even after everything was done. When I closed LR it gave the memory back and use dropped down to 3.6GB (with no other programs open), and when I reopened LR use went up to 7.2GB.
I never learned to type formally but I type fast (with loads of errors). I think this keyboard might be a little worse than my XPS 13 (for my use that is), and also worse than the old type with big keys that I use on my desktop, but I think I'll get used to it.
No observations about the touchscreen. I found that with the clamshell style I never really used it. Also no comments on the touchpad. I hate them and use a mouse. Bluetooth mouse is working OK and wakes up properly with the computer, something that was always glitchy with my XPS13.
Next test is to do some lightpainting image processing to see how LR and PS work. I'll have anything from 10-30 files (42mp) in LR that will move to PS then stack as layers. Each will have a mask added so that I can erase areas that have too much light. The final files range from ~5GB to 12GB so it looks like I'll need all of the 32GB I have, although once in PS I can shut down LR.
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I gave the laptop a workout with a couple of lightpainted images. One 8 and the other 16 files (42mp) transferred from LR to PS, layered, blended by lighten mode and various masks made and adjustments to the files in ACR (they were loaded as smart objects). Resulting files are 2.4 and 2.8GB (ended up deleting some layers in the larger one). Saving the psb file took a couple of minutes (definitely a cup of coffee on my older systems) with no real slow downs while processing. Opening all of the files in PS initially took some time as it still does even with my desktop, but nothing I'm concerned with.
I generated the new lightpainted images from files I'd taken in June, so to get them into the Dell I removed the Sandisk SSD and copied a full set of 6 days worth of files, then imported them into the catalog I'd set up yesterday on the Dell. I left them on the SSD so the Add import was almost instant. I set it up for Standard Previews and no Smart Previews. 2022 files took 30 mins to create previews. I don't know how long it would be on my desktop, I'll have to check.
Only bad news is that when I plugged the SSD back into the Dell it crashed again, although properly recognized and functional after the reboot. I used the TB3 port again so I'll have to test it on one of the USB-A ports and also connect another USB-C drive dock to the TB3 port to see if it does the same. The Sandisk drive on a TB3 port on my desktop is fine. I'll contact Dell once I have a little more information.
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After some major screw ups with FedEx and the delivery of my XPS 15 2-in-1, I finally got it the early part of last week. Since it's not my primary computer, I've been taking my time getting it up and running. Initially, I thought of using PCMover or WinWin to transfer from my old laptop, but decided against that and am now goin through the laborious task of deactivating on the old/installing on the new all the software I usually run on my laptop (Adobe CC, Capture One, Photo Mechanic, and other -- biggest pain is all my plugins!).
A few observations first. The keyboard takes some getting used to. I'd read a number of reviews and it seems to be a love/hate kind of thing -- not unlike, apparently, the new Mac laptops. I'm not "naturally" a touch typist. I never really learned to touch type (I was always closed out of that course in school), and so type via a combo of hunt-and-peck and moderate touch (tactile memory as it were). So, my initial going has been a bit slow as I "relearn" the keyboard. The sensation isn't bad, but it's ironic that my iPad keyboard from Logitech as a bit more key travel! I thing I miss incredibly from my old Asus is the number pad. There's more than enough room to have installed that and wish that had been designed in. I do like the combo of traditional laptop and touch screen. I've used in in tablet mode a few times. Not bad. A MUCH bigger tablet than my iPad, heavier, but a nice experience. And speaking of weight, I'm somewhat surprised by the heft of the laptop. It's skinny but solid. The Dell is not that much heavier than my old Asus, which tipped the scales at around 5lbs.
The screen is pretty spectacular. I run it at about 75% brightness. I feel 100% is way to bright, and in a dim room I would be happy with 50%. Since much of my work goes to print, about 25-50% of the time, I end up working in CMYK. For proper pre-press, you traditionally don't work at super bright levels since it gives you an artificial sense of contrast not seen in print. My desktop is calibrated at at a level of 200, and this is way brighter than that. I have included screen shots of the calibration done with my Spyder5. As one can see, it isn't 100% AdobeRGB, but it damn close at 98%! My old notebook struggled to even get a full sRGB gamut. My NEC monitors on my desktop are also 98% aRGB gamut. The "out of the box" color and calibration are actually quite good -- I almost hesitated calibrating, but as it turned out, color was on the cool side, though not horrible (especially compared to some PCs I've seen. Part of me would still have loved the Pantone certified screen that will be in the 4K versions of the Gigabyte 15x v8 and the new Asus UX580GE.)
One weird thing that seems to go on, and I'm not sure what it's related to. A few times, using the laptop casually in the evening, low light levels, the screen would flicker a little, sometimes brighten, then go back to "normal levels". It's happened twice, so I'll have to see if that continues and, if so, under what conditions.
As I mentioned, I haven't done any major work with the laptop yet. I may use it to browse images I shot over the weekend. Maybe even experiment with retouching some of those images using the pen I bought.
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I see that B&H are now offering the HP ZBook 360 G5 with 32GB. This has a 4k screen, flips like the Dell XPS 2 in 1, and has the same CPU as the regular Dell XPS 15 (i7 8750H)
They are doing the RAM upgrade in house, so it's not returnable.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with my regular XPS 15. No more problems with the Sandisk and the Dell just did a F/W update so I need to checking it's OK. I have until the end of the month to buy a 3rd yr warranty.
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Just to keep it interesting Lenovo have just announced a new 15" workstation laptop
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P1/p/22WS2WPP101
Not a 2 in 1 but looks like a serious contender to all the other makes mentioned in this thread and in fact may go a couple of steps higher as the i7 CPU is the 8850, a good bit faster than the 8750 (and Xeon is an option), and it can be configured with 64GB RAM (2666 MHz) and up to 4TB NVMe drive. 4K touch (adobe RGB) or FHD screens and NVIDIA Quad P2000 graphics. a pair of TB3 and a pair of USB-A 3.1 ports.
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Just to keep it interesting Lenovo have just announced a new 15" workstation laptop
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P1/p/22WS2WPP101
Not a 2 in 1 but looks like a serious contender to all the other makes mentioned in this thread and in fact may go a couple of steps higher as the i7 CPU is the 8850, a good bit faster than the 8750 (and Xeon is an option), and it can be configured with 64GB RAM (2666 MHz) and up to 4TB NVMe drive. 4K touch (adobe RGB) or FHD screens and NVIDIA Quad P2000 graphics. a pair of TB3 and a pair of USB-A 3.1 ports.
3.8 lbs for a performance 15.6" is something.
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Lenovo have added another to the 15" high performance market; the thinkpad X1 extreme
8th gen i7, i9 later this year, up to 64GB DDR4, 2TB storage. 4k touchscreen (no comment on gamut), no 2 in 1 option
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-extreme-preview/