Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: enduser on March 26, 2018, 04:41:12 am
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When I print this it always comes out with a magenta border - profiled, or printer manages color.
The actual border is grey. It's a color chart with many color squares surrounded by a border. The original, from the web, has a wide surrounding border which is grey on my monitor, grey on a different color calibrated monitor, but prints with a strong magenta cast. The central colors all print true.
What's going on? Thanks.
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Most printers have a great deal of difficulty producing a perfectly neutral gray even when the original file is perfect since they usually a little colored ink to try to balance it out.
Have you checked whether it's actually a perfectly neutral gray?
Also, which printer and printing software are you using?
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When I print this it always comes out with a magenta border - profiled, or printer manages color.
The actual border is grey. It's a color chart with many color squares surrounded by a border. The original, from the web, has a wide surrounding border which is grey on my monitor, grey on a different color calibrated monitor, but prints with a strong magenta cast. The central colors all print true.
What's going on? Thanks.
It would be helpful if you could attach a shot of the actual print, so that we can see the magenta border. I agree that a totally neutral grey is rather difficult for any printer, but I have never experienced the issue you have described with any of my wide format printers. Along with a shot of the print, please answer the questions "mearussi" posed. I'll add another question - under what light source are you viewing the printed version?
Gary
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if you cut part of the grey border and put it in a blank paper is it still magenta?
IOW could it be your vision is influenced by the other strong colours? and the grey border is actually grey?
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Most printers have a great deal of difficulty producing a perfectly neutral gray even when the original file is perfect since they usually a little colored ink to try to balance it out.
Have you checked whether it's actually a perfectly neutral gray?
Also, which printer and printing software are you using?
Good questions to ask, but your first statement is both true and not true, depending. "perfectly neutral gray" means that the a* and b* values of a read "gray" patch are both 0. This seldom happens throughout the grayscale because as you say the printers aren't perfect. However, the deviations from 0 can be small enough to be imperceptible to human eyes even though the spectrophotometer reads the value of the deviation. Technically deviations below dE 1.0 are supposed to be imperceptible to humans. I have produced plenty of grayscales that average dE far less than 1.0 in the a* or b* channels, with maximum deviations being contained within the range of 1.0 or so. Normally, the good profiles I test show better performance of the grayscale than of the colour channels.
There isn't enough information yet to diagnose the O/P's problem.
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When I print this it always comes out with a magenta border - profiled, or printer manages color.
First, test this with a color reference image just so we know it's not in your document: http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip
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I've put up three images. The first is as printed. The second is a print of Digital Dog's image showing (amongst other errors) - magenta in many images but not between images. The third is the Qimage nozzle check - no evidence of bad color mixing.
This is a 24" roll equipped HP Designjet of only MCYK inks that has been faultless until now.
Photos of prints were shot on an EOS camera, outdoors in overcast conditions. Prints are on pollycotton canvas but look the same on a variety of papers. Printed using a couple of icc profiles they look the same. These prints were done using "Printer/driver manages color" by Qimage. The blues look better using the printer driver. We've been using Qimage for over ten years on a variety of wide format machine from Canon to HP.
Phew!
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My test image is WAY off! Clogged nozzle?
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When I print this it always comes out with a magenta border - profiled, or printer manages color.
Printing light and with a magenta cast is a sign of double color management while printing dark and with a green cast is a sign of no color management. Your issue seem to indicate double color management (applying management in both the application and the print driver0). What exactly are your print settings?
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Almost certainly double profiled and, looking at the digital dog test image, a blocked nozzle or two.
First use the printer driver's own utility to run a nozzle check and clean. Once you're sure the printer is working correctly go through the settings and ensure you only apply a profile one. Either apply a profile in Qimage with the driver set to no colour management or not applying a profile in Qimage and using the driver to colour manage.
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Printing light and with a magenta cast is a sign of double color management while printing dark and with a green cast is a sign of no color management. Your issue seem to indicate double color management (applying management in both the application and the print driver0). What exactly are your print settings?
Jeff - "enduser" says he's getting this effect whether he uses Application or Printer Color Management, if I read correctly. In the case of the latter is it possible to have double colour management? I would think not, but please advise.
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Jeff - "enduser" says he's getting this effect whether he uses Application or Printer Color Management, if I read correctly. In the case of the latter is it possible to have double colour management? I would think not, but please advise.
My thought too, hence the idea it's the printer hardware rather than the user. The massive banding I see in my reference file seems to indicate not all inks are hitting the paper.
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Jeff - "enduser" says he's getting this effect whether he uses Application or Printer Color Management, if I read correctly.
Actually what he wrote was, uh, not very usefull in determination of anything...
The op needs to indicate that hat printer, OS, application and the settings used. Otherwise it’s a guessing game and I already guessed (prolly correctly :-)
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Actually what he wrote was, uh, not very usefull in determination of anything...
The op needs to indicate that hat printer, OS, application and the settings used. Otherwise it’s a guessing game and I already guessed (prolly correctly :-)
We know it's an HP Design Jet, OP is using QImage for printing with Printer Manages Color. That's a start, but I agree, not enough information to diagnose anything really, so you're right it is a guessing game. It's happening all too often that posters are asking other Forum members to help analyze/resolve printing issues without providing all the basic information needed to to do so - let's see how it evolves.
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Well it's Windows 10. The comments so far lead me to think it's a hardware issue, probably the head, or possibly double profiling. I doubt the latter having been using this printer for three years using Qimage. With Qimage the automated job log means that what you printed in the past is always available down to the smallest detail of the whole job, and in this case the resulting images are heavily magenta. When last printed they weren't.
We know about using profiles and whether printer or Qimage manages color etc.
Thanks to all for the comments.
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That does lean in the direction of a printer issue - some problem creating ink delivery failure; printing with a magenta bias suggests an inadequacy of Cyan and possibly Yellow.
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Do a standard printer nozzle check (not the Qimage one).
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We can get good prints now by using "Printer manages color" and using Adobe, (not rgb.) Still get a magenta cast if we use a profile in the application.
The above situation applies in Qimage, Lightroom and Paint Shop Pro.
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Then it leans back in the direction of a profiling issue.
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Absolutely agree, Mark. There's a lengthy post on the Qimage forum where there is some discussion about a Windows 10 update being the culprit. Apparently Microsoft are looking at a fix! Is it Win 10, will they fix it?Who knows but at least we've got a usable workaround. Using printer managing color gives a surprisingly good result.
Thanks for you interest.
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Absolutely agree, Mark. There's a lengthy post on the Qimage forum where there is some discussion about a Windows 10 update being the culprit. Apparently Microsoft are looking at a fix! Is it Win 10, will they fix it?Who knows but at least we've got a usable workaround. Using printer managing color gives a surprisingly good result.
Thanks for you interest.
Is this the “lengthy post” you are talking about?
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage/overall-mgenta-tint/msg22623/#msg22623
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No, it was much earlier, not by me.
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No, it was much earlier, not by me.
Reference it.
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Reference it.
Possibly this one:
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate/canon-imageprograf-pro-1000-redpink-tint/?action=printpage
And similar pink cast threads
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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I seem to vaguely remember an issue with v4 profiles that caused a magenta issue.
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I seem to vaguely remember an issue with v4 profiles that caused a magenta issue.
I've been making and using V4 profiles for a long time and never had such issues. It's not V4 on its own.
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Qimage supports V2 and V4 profiles.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
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Well, all along a "Profile" problem seemed likely. My printer was an early suspect, but good nozzle checks, new carts and using HP's diagnosis app, it didn't seem that printer problems were the culprit. So I thought, what about letting the printer take care of color output?
In the various menus I set the printing to let printer manage color. There were two options -"Let printer/driver manage color" and then the ability to choose between sRGB and AdobeRGB.
I put this in the wrong post. It's my final summary for now.
I went for no application color management. The setup is "Let printer/driver manage color.
I chose sRGB first and there was no improvement. Not expecting a better print I then chose AdobeRGB. An excellent print was the result of that.
In summary, printer manages color using Adobe RGB is good. All else, using a profile done for me and multple HP profiles and printer manages color using sRGB all gave the same amount (apparently) of magenta excess.
I'm not a newby at this, I've done lots of printing on Canon and HP 24" printers using Photoshop initially in 2005, and Qimage for 9 years. I know how to print unmanaged samples for profile creation etc.
I'm currently trying an earlier Qimage on a Windows 8.1 machine to see what happens. I'll report on that.
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We can get good prints now by using "Printer manages color" and using Adobe, (not rgb.)
Not what?
Yes, you can get 'good prints' using PMC. You can get better and soft proof, and control rendering intents with a good ICC profile. Don't use crappy ICC profiles seems to be the take-home here.
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Sorry for not making it clear. In my installation of Qimage and an HP printer, under printer properties/color/color management/printer manages color ... there are two possibilities, either "sRGB" or "Adobe RGB". Only AdobeRGB gives proper color. As for crappy ICCs, they have been used hundreds of previous times. Now they don't. This is a new problem.
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Well, all along a "Profile" problem seemed likely. My printer was an early suspect, but good nozzle checks, new carts and using HP's diagnosis app, it didn't seem that printer problems were the culprit. So I thought, what about letting the printer take care of color output?
In the various menus I set the printing to let printer manage color. There were two options -"Let printer/driver manage color" and then the ability to choose between sRGB and AdobeRGB.
I put this in the wrong post. It's my final summary for now.
I went for no application color management. The setup is "Let printer/driver manage color.
I chose sRGB first and there was no improvement. Not expecting a better print I then chose AdobeRGB. An excellent print was the result of that.
In summary, printer manages color using Adobe RGB is good. All else, using a profile done for me and multple HP profiles and printer manages color using sRGB all gave the same amount (apparently) of magenta excess.
I'm not a newby at this, I've done lots of printing on Canon and HP 24" printers using Photoshop initially in 2005, and Qimage for 9 years. I know how to print unmanaged samples for profile creation etc.
I'm currently trying an earlier Qimage on a Windows 8.1 machine to see what happens. I'll report on that.
I am using the latest Qimage Ultimate on Windows 7 for my Z3200 and do not have that problem. Profiles made with the Z3200 and Color Center or APS (the last showed starting up issues lately but the old profiles still work). HP OEM profiles for the HP Premium ID Satin gave no issues either. Calibration still works fine. usually I start that up from the printer panel.
Is there an issue with the Z3200 spectrometer and by that with the calibration as you have the problem with all workflows but Printer Driver CM ? And as I wrote before Mike says there are issues with the W10 printer drivers, more than one BTW.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots