Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: Rand47 on February 15, 2018, 11:58:13 am
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Fuji X-H1 formally announced as new "flag ship" camera body. Improved build quality for increased ruggedness. Enhanced video capability. 5 stop in-body image stabilization which will also work in conjunction with any of the OIS lenses.
Preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRs_1_0f08
Mine is pre-ordered! Shipping on March 1.
Rand
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Do you already shoot video?
Lots of nice new features like IBIS, larger body, better focus on video, etc. I'm just not sure if they matter enough for me to upgrade from my X-T2. I may wait to see what the X-T3 brings.
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Fuji X-H1 formally announced as new "flag ship" camera body. Improved build quality for increased ruggedness. Enhanced video capability. 5 stop in-body image stabilization which will also work in conjunction with any of the OIS lenses.
Interesting; and with a clear push for not only video but cinematic-grade video, when you note the related expansion of Fujifilm's cine-lens line.
Am I right that this is Fujifilm's first offering on sensor-shift IS? So now every one except the "old guard" (Canon, Nikon, Leica) offer both sensor-shift and lens-based IS, capable of working in tandem. And high quality EVF cameras of course.
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5 stop in-body image stabilization which will also work in conjunction with any of the OIS lenses.
except when OIS of Fuji lenses takes over IBIS those 5 stops will drop a lot...
16-55 w/o OIS, w/ IBIS = 5+ stops
18-55 w/ OIS and IBIS where OIS takes over certain axis compensation = 3.5 stops
Hilarious !
somebody glue that OIS dead shut.
PS: and OIS in 10-24 will drop you to 2.5 stops... so what gives ? can't we just knock that OIS off
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Do you already shoot video?
Lots of nice new features like IBIS, larger body, better focus on video, etc. I'm just not sure if they matter enough for me to upgrade from my X-T2. I may wait to see what the X-T3 brings.
EFCS + gentler shutter... and praise Fuji - you can set the exposure time where EFCS will switch off and turn into a classical mech. all curtains shutter... Sony shall learn something from this
and PDAF sensitivity after so many years finally matching Sony A6500... Fuji is finally on record stating that X-T2 PDAF was rated only for >= 0.5 EV (X-H1 >= -1EV, Sony A6500 >= -1EV, Sony A7R2 >= -2EV, Sony A7R3 >= -3EV)... no wonder Fuji barely functioned speedwise in a dim light
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Interesting; and with a clear push for not only video but cinematic-grade video, when you note the related expansion of Fujifilm's cine-lens line.
Am I right that this is Fujifilm's first offering on sensor-shift IS? So now every one except the "old guard" (Canon, Nikon, Leica) offer both sensor-shift and lens-based IS, capable of working in tandem. And high quality EVF cameras of course.
This is after claiming for about 2 years that IBIS will degrade image quality for them as the designed image circle for their lenses doesn't accommodate for it.
I would really want to hear an explanation for this, so far the options are:
a) that was BS
b) expect worse image quality in the corners
EFCS + gentler shutter... and praise Fuji - you can set the exposure time where EFCS will switch off and turn into a classical mech. all curtains shutter... Sony shall learn something from this
and PDAF sensitivity after so many years finally matching Sony A6500... Fuji is finally on record stating that X-T2 PDAF was rated only for >= 0.5 EV (X-H1 >= -1EV, Sony A6500 >= -1EV, Sony A7R2 >= -2EV, Sony A7R3 >= -3EV)... no wonder Fuji barely functioned speedwise in a dim light
Yes, it does struggle in lower light. It might get it but it slows down considerably.
The EFCS on/off based on exposure time shows that they get it. Their current autoISO implementation is the best (I could maybe get close on Nikon if I were to use the U1 and U2 settings but I don't), you have 3 auto ISO settings which I mapped to one of the 4-way controllers. It would be perfect if you can change to auto one to be 1/2-3FL to 2-3/FL instead of just 1/FL.
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X-T2 132.5 X 91.8 X 49.2 mm, 457g weight
X-H1 139.8 X 97.3 X 85.5 mm, 673g weight
Statement of the obvious; more inside -> bigger and heavier.
I like the smaller and lighter, and as I am not into video ( serial input to brain rather than parallel input of a still), I will stick with my X-T2. No IBIS does not worry me, wind up the ISO or dig out the tripod. Love the prime lenses. Others will like the new camera, I'm sure.
Jonathan
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what I still can't understand - why in the world Fuji did not opt for PDAF to cover more of the sensor area from the very beginning ? did Sony Semi charge them extra $ ? literally per each PDAF point ? now of course they might simply want to continue cost saving by using the same sensor as in X-T2
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wind up the ISO
it does not help w/ exposure (for raw shooters) ... it might help w/ readout noise a little when second gain in Sony sensor is engaged @ nominal ISO800 (???)
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Do you already shoot video?
Lots of nice new features like IBIS, larger body, better focus on video, etc. I'm just not sure if they matter enough for me to upgrade from my X-T2. I may wait to see what the X-T3 brings.
No, re the video, but it is something I've wanted to explore and start doing for my teaching. I'm attracted to the new grip and other features like the better EVF and the thicker more robust body. I also have large hands, so the slightly larger body will be a plus, not a minus in my case. I love Fuji's philosophy re the buttons and dials, but I'll not be sorry to lose the exposure comp. That's the one dial I often move accidentally on my X-T2.
Rand
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except when OIS of Fuji lenses takes over IBIS those 5 stops will drop a lot...
16-55 w/o OIS, w/ IBIS = 5+ stops
18-55 w/ OIS and IBIS where OIS takes over certain axis compensation = 3.5 stops
Hilarious !
somebody glue that OIS dead shut.
PS: and OIS in 10-24 will drop you to 2.5 stops... so what gives ? can't we just knock that OIS off
Not a big deal, just turn the IBIS in the body off when using those lenses, or the OIS off in the lens - whichever yields the best results.
Rand
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I am in Los Angeles and will be heading to a private as well as public camera launch this evening. I'll publish photos and more tomorrow. As many of you know I am a Fuji user and have a very extensive Fuji set-up. I saw this camera last October and was really impressed with it. While I have touched it and such I really haven't shot with it yet but I do plan to do some extensive shooting with it in early March. Frankly, I think Fuji listened well to their customers and added what was needed and didn't screw with the things that were working. The whole user interface experience with a Fuji is something that I believe many users really enjoy about the camera.
So stay tuned. I'll have more on this on Friday.
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This is after claiming for about 2 years that IBIS will degrade image quality for them as the designed image circle for their lenses doesn't accommodate for it.
I would really want to hear an explanation for this, so far the options are:
a) that was BS
b) expect worse image quality in the corners
My guess: for general optical reasons, image circles are usually only that tight with wide-angle to normal focal lengths, and even then only near the wide end of zoom lenses — so Fujifilm PR did a little "over-emphasis" on that limitation while they did not have IBIS.
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I'll not be sorry to lose the exposure comp. That's the one dial I often move accidentally on my X-T2.
Interesting. I probably use it—quite intentionally, I hasten to add—in at least one out of three shots. That's the only change (so far, at least) which inclines me to wait for the X-T3.
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Never been a fan either of the exposure comp dial. Using the front scrolling wheel on the X-T2 with its 10 stops of compensation makes more sense. Much faster than trying to find that dial on the top.
For those of us who don't shoot much video, and don't need to hand hold at 5 to 10 seconds like some reviewers are doing, the X-H1 may not make sense as an upgrade yet. I can already shoot hand held at 30/sec at the 35mm frame equivalent of 600mm, and have sharp images.
David
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Never been a fan either of the exposure comp dial. Using the front scrolling wheel on the X-T2 with its 10 stops of compensation makes more sense. Much faster than trying to find that dial on the top.
For those of us who don't shoot much video, and don't need to hand hold at 5 to 10 seconds like some reviewers are doing, the X-H1 may not make sense as an upgrade yet. I can already shoot hand held at 30/sec at the 35mm frame equivalent of 600mm, and have sharp images.
David
I would venture to say that unless you are a superhuman the above is 1/30 sec (likely on m43) and not 30 sec?
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I would venture to say that unless you are a superhuman the above is 1/30 sec (likely on m43) and not 30 sec?
I was never a red cape and tights chap, so I think you are probably quite correct.
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This is after claiming for about 2 years that IBIS will degrade image quality for them as the designed image circle for their lenses doesn't accommodate for it.
I would really want to hear an explanation for this, so far the options are:
a) that was BS
b) expect worse image quality in the corners
I was wondering the same. It appears they may have been correct in that it wouldn't work with the existing body size. Their IBIS system takes up more space which is why the X-H1 body is larger.
David
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They are also emphasising here (https://fujifilm-x.com/uk/x-stories/x-h1-development-story-1/) the larger body is to provide greater robustness for heavier "devices" because "in near future there will be lenses that weigh more than 2kg." (illustrated with the forthcoming 200 f2).
John
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Had the opportunity to see and hold an X-H1 yesterday here in Seattle at the Kenmore Camera Annual Sale. There is a lot more heft to this camera from the X-T line. In fact it seems to me to have more roots in the GFX than the X-T. It is definitely feeling more like a professional camera and operates very quickly. The shutter button is very soft with a minuscule difference between 1/2 press and full shutter release, something that would be quickly learned.
The touch screen is only active on live view and not the menus. I wanted to tap the tile on the Q menu, but still have to scroll around.
The AF-L button isn't the most convenient location for me. I like the X-T2 location better for back-button focus. And an everlasting complaint of mine on Fuji battery grips is they put the buttons in different positions on the BG from the Camera, so you have to adapt for portrait and landscape.. just bugs me.
I'll be sticking with the X-T. May need to move this conversation out of the "Compact" forum.. Ha.
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Good representation of the Fuji film profiles.
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X-H1 manual on line:
http://fujifilm-dsc.com/en/manual/x-h1/x-h1_omw_en_s_f_202.pdf
Rand
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spent time with X-H1 since March 1 ::
slowpoke AF (I have XF50/2, I can only imagine how the first generation of XF lenses are working), no one button Eye AF, no face detection exposure metering (with known placement of face skin areas in terms of sensor saturation), IBIS humming (Sony is dead silent), flimsy & cheap command dials ... now I know what Kaizen is firsthand... it is a short for inability to design tech and write firmware ;D ...
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spent time with X-H1 since March 1 ::
slowpoke AF (I have XF50/2, I can only imagine how the first generation of XF lenses are working), no one button Eye AF, no face detection exposure metering (with known placement of face skin areas in terms of sensor saturation), IBIS humming (Sony is dead silent), flimsy & cheap command dials ... now I know what Kaizen is firsthand... it is a short for inability to design tech and write firmware ;D ...
Curious, why did you spend the time with it?
You did not really have the intention to buy a Fuji, did you?
I have no experience with it and don’t plan to buy it but unless they cheapened on the dials vs the X-T2, on the latter they are fine. The ergonomics are pretty good and along with the menu and the configurable buttons make the X-T2 my easiest to use camera.
On my X-T2 I configured a button where I access the face/eye focus menu and you can choose from auto or you can specify exactly which eye should be in focus. Fast enough for me and a little more flexible.
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Btw, on the X-T2 the focus is not the fastest but is serviceable. Has some issues with acquisition in particular, more so when the light in poor. On the X-H1 they allegedly improved it.
It wouldn’t be my choice for fast sports or maybe fast moving nature (birds on fly for example) but it’s good enough for the rest. I would like it to be faster but it’s not the limiting factor in most shots.
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Curious, why did you spend the time with it?
I like to render my opinions after enough time with the gear... so I purchase gear ;)
And oh dear, when you want to review a picture and press review button - Fuji stops IBIS operation with loud bang & shake indicating sensor parking (the only time when IBIS humming actually stops) and when you exit picture review Fuji starts IBIS operation back with again loud bang & shake of sensor unparking... now that is some fit of Kaizen engineering ;D
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You did not really have the intention to buy a Fuji, did you?
I actually did purchase X-H1 :D
On my X-T2 I configured a button where I access the face/eye focus menu
do you understand a difference between just pressing a button once to lock on an eye at any moment even when face detection disabled, so not to interfere with your regular focusing (Sony) and pressing a button go to to menu, scroll in menu, activate face/eye detection, locking on eye, then after shooting, going back to that menu, disabling face/eye detection, etc (Fuji) ? Kaizen !
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Btw, on the X-T2 the focus is not the fastest but is serviceable.
that will be a polite way to put it :P
On the X-H1 they allegedly improved it.
lucky me for not experiencing X-T2 then ;D
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I actually did purchase X-H1 . . .
I’m guessing you don’t plan to keep it. It’s a shame you didn’t rent instead - less money wasted.
Rand
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It's a different mindset between buying to keep and get one just to see what's wrong with it.
Sony was pretty bad in beginning, and before Fuji convinced the masses, followed by Olympus, that kaizen is the way to properly do things Song's answer was a new model.
Remind me, on which "pro" Olympus model were the buttons or wheels falling off?
Fuji has issues but no manufacturer has a perfect model. You make it sound like that button is the difference between a good camera and a bad one. That's quite laughable as there are only a few instances where it could really make a difference. There are more ways to skin a cat. Would it be nice if Fuji would be able to do it? Maybe. Does it offer a good alternative? Yes.
I think I have less bias in this compared to some. Even if I use the Fuji the most I have 2 other systems, the Nikon and m43 that get their fair share. I also have cameras from Sony and Panasonic (and Canon but that doesn't get used these days) so I'm brand agnostic.
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It's a different mindset between buying to keep and get one just to see what's wrong with it.
I am giving a fair try to Fuji and unlike people who praise everything that comes their way I report things as they are - there is no point to whitewash things ... if Fuji X-H1's rotating control dials (front and rear) are flimsy and feel like cheap plastic, w/o any good ribs on them that has to be said... it is a good solid body and grip - but most of controls are subpar to it (except AE-L & AF-ON buttons and may be a joystick)... hopefully Fuji will get to matching controls to a camera body in X-H2 version... meanwhile we will be getting used to what we have.
Sony was pretty bad in beginning
it was (think A7R with shutter shock)... however Sony already did good on 2nd iteration of FF dSLMs and better on 3rd iteration... Fuji ? X-H1 is a 3rd generation camera body (1st gen X-T1 -> 2nd gen X-T2 -> 3rd gen X-H1) already ... they had enough time... certainly cameras are their per project and they don't want to invest in a massive effort to fix everything
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I’m guessing you don’t plan to keep it. It’s a shame you didn’t rent instead - less money wasted.
Rand
money come and go, I once purchased a newly released Olympus E-PL-something just to pry sensor from it to see if the markings on that 16mp were from Sony or Panasonic (turned out it was a Sony sensor) - that was when no reports from ChipWorks about new 16mp sensors used by Olympus were yet available ...
as for X-H1 I will keep it - it still can be used as a daylight camera to shoot non faces... for more challenging tasks it will be Sony - one need a camera that can find an eye instantly with a press of a button and w/o a hassle ;) and a camera that has firmware written to actually meter the exposure of the face AF locks on.
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money come and go, I once purchased a newly released Olympus E-PL-something just to pry sensor from it to see if the markings on that 16mp were from Sony or Panasonic (turned out it was a Sony sensor) - that was when no reports from ChipWorks about new 16mp sensors used by Olympus were yet available ...
as for X-H1 I will keep it - it still can be used as a daylight camera to shoot non faces... for more challenging tasks it will be Sony - one need a camera that can find an eye instantly with a press of a button and w/o a hassle ;) and a camera that has firmware written to actually meter the exposure of the face AF locks on.
Now I'm really curious. What is it about the X-H1 that makes it worth keeping, then?
Rand
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I’ve had my X-H1 for a day or so now. All configured they way I like it. I’m very much enjoying this camera. Much better high ISO than my X-T2 (figure a firmware update will make them even again at some point). Grip is MUCH better than X-T2 - that was the only “take down” for me from going from dSLR to Fuji when I bought my X-T1 (large hands). EVF is very detailed and bright. With grip and boost mode there is zero lag/drag in the EVF.
And the IBIS is nothing short of excellent. Hand-holding the 16-55 @ 55mm down to 1/8th second is easily doable/repeatable with good camera holding technique.
The body feels more rigid/rugged. The grip fitment is more organic, following the lines of the camera much better than the “attached square brick” with the funny vertical “add on” of the X-T2 grip.
Shutter button improvement is very nice, indeed. Some complain that it is too soft... but I find it just about perfect. After about one minute using it, finding the half-press, vs the “shoot” press is quite easily dialed in, and makes for very accurate shutter trip w/o inducing camera movement. Shutter is very quiet.
I love the e-ink top sub lcd that retains frames remaining, EC settings (or not), and battery status even with the camera off. VERY nice.
Some have lamented the loss of the dedicated EC dial. I sure don’t. Setting the EC button to “toggle on and off” (which is remembered even with camera off) makes for very easy EC adjustment with rear command wheel. Since EC setting is visible in EVF, LCD and on sub lcd panel, there’s still obvious indication of EC settings. I like it better and am much less apt to accidentally adjust EC with this set up.
The Eterna Film Simulation is really nice, even for stills photos. I’ve not yet ventured into video.
I’m very pleased with this machine, it is a worthwhile upgrade to X-T2 based on my own preferences in ergos, the IBIS, the EC implementation, robustness of the body construction, and a lot of other small refinements like the push button (rather than fiddle slide button) for releasing the LCD for vertical tip-out, etc.
Rand
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I certainly hope some of the features will trickle down to the X-T2.
Regarding better high ISO, as far as I know the sensor is the same; are you talking about jpegs?
IBIS would be nice and maybe I would have put up with the increase in size for it but I find it unacceptable that they didn't use this opportunity to increase the battery size. It's a new line, people would have accepted it same as they are for the new Sony A7iii. Now the next body will feature a new battery which means it will be messy to keep using the current one as a backup or it will be even more limited by it. This feels like too much cost cutting or/and trying to rush the product out.
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I certainly hope some of the features will trickle down to the X-T2.
Regarding better high ISO, as far as I know the sensor is the same; are you talking about jpegs?
IBIS would be nice and maybe I would have put up with the increase in size for it but I find it unacceptable that they didn't use this opportunity to increase the battery size. It's a new line, people would have accepted it same as they are for the new Sony A7iii. Now the next body will feature a new battery which means it will be messy to keep using the current one as a backup or it will be even more limited by it. This feels like too much cost cutting or/and trying to rush the product out.
I wondered about the battery also, but so far (with the grip attached) I’m getting easily a typical day’s shooting w/o having to swap batteries. It makes me wonder if Fuji is betting on advances in size/performance for their batteries.
High ISO, yes, so far only seen differences in jpegs (just beginning to test seriously). Here’s a link that is quite amazing:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/fuji-x-h1/fuji-x-h1A7.HTM
I’ve always found that the high ISO noise handling of Fuji’s jpegs to be superior to what I can squeeze out of raws in Lightroom. Kinda makes me grumpy, and I’m not too bad at post-processing. I shoot raw+fine jpeg so have my choice. I’ll even take a step over the line here and say that Fuji’s jpegs are pretty malleable in terms of doing adjustments in LR w/o having them go all wonky with artifacts. I’m going to experiment with film simulation bracketing + raw over the next month or so.
Rand
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One week on . . . I’m very impressed with this camera. I appreciate the ergonomics and robust construction. BUT - Fuji’s strong suit IS NOT intelligible instruction manuals. The implementation of Bluetooth being a good example.
Kevin.... any chance of doing a deep-dive video as you did with the earlier X camera? This one really needs it!
Rand
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I'm getting to know the camera myself. Only had mine for a few days. I'll have to see if the HDMI output will allow menu capture. If it does I'll consider doing a video on this camera. I also got the Macro lens and will be testing it.
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I'm getting to know the camera myself.
how is your finger in gloves (put gloves on for the sake of testing) feels to move selector from spot metering to average and back... happy finger ?
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how is your finger in gloves (put gloves on for the sake of testing) feels to move selector from spot metering to average and back... happy finger ?
There’s a little more room than with the X-T2, but it is still a snug fit. So, “better” but still challenging with thick gloves.
Rand
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There’s a little more room than with the X-T2, but it is still a snug fit. So, “better” but still challenging with thick gloves.
Rand
so XT-2 was even more PITA w/ those levers... good to know (that Fuji was even worse ergonomically before X-H1)... even w/o gloves I rarely can move lever from average to spot back to average w/o moving exposure dial (so I have to lock it and unlock it, which I hate to do)... again goes to the point as to why design a bigger body and yet leave a lot of controls aimed as if they are on tiny P&S sized body... as if the thought process got stopped half way.
not to mention that 4-way control which is almost sunken into the body...
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so XT-2 was even more PITA w/ those levers... good to know (that Fuji was even worse ergonomically before X-H1)... even w/o gloves I rarely can move lever from average to spot back to average w/o moving exposure dial (so I have to lock it and unlock it, which I hate to do)... again goes to the point as to why design a bigger body and yet leave a lot of controls aimed as if they are on tiny P&S sized body... as if the thought process got stopped half way.
not to mention that 4-way control which is almost sunken into the body...
You should sell that lousy piece of junk Fuji and rejoice in your Sony, which is a fine camera indeed. I, for one, am tired of your incessant carping. If I owned something that I didn’t like, I’d drop it like a hot rock.
You’re now on my ignore list.
Rand
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You’re now on my ignore list.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/picard-facepalm.jpg)
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You should sell that lousy piece of junk Fuji and rejoice in your Sony, which is a fine camera indeed. I, for one, am tired of your incessant carping. If I owned something that I didn’t like, I’d drop it like a hot rock.
You’re now on my ignore list.
Rand
+1
It was funny in the beginning but it's kind of annoying now. How is the gloved handling of your Sony or Olympus? Try not to lie.
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DP, I think you have made your point and like others said if you don't like it get rid of it. I so far am enjoying shooting with the X-H1 and haven't experienced some of the issues you mention. I did some focus tests and it focuses pretty fast. I have the full line up of Fuji as well as Sony. The Fuji is a fun camera to shoot with and I have taken the XT-2 and lenses to Greenland, and Antarctica and never had any problems shooting with gloves on. Maybe you need thinner gloves. In any case enough is enough. I'll be shooting with the camera for the next few weeks with a trip to Portugal thrown in. After that, I'll give my review.
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I used with gloves the X-T2 side by side with the Nikon D750. They were similar, if anything the joystick on the X-T2 made things easier. Moderate thickness gloves.
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How is the gloved handling of your Sony or Olympus? Try not to lie.
both terrible, but unlike you & co, I am not shy to say this ... beats me why do you have issues w/ dissenting opinions ;D ... I am not trying to shut you when you express yours, you and co on the other hand ;)
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I used with gloves the X-T2 side by side with the Nikon D750. They were similar, if anything the joystick on the X-T2 made things easier. Moderate thickness gloves.
the question was if you did not notice about a particular operation w/ a particular control, not in general ... and that was not joystick
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both terrible, but unlike you & co, I am not shy to say this ... beats me why do you have issues w/ dissenting opinions ;D ... I am not trying to shut you when you express yours, you and co on the other hand ;)
Actually you are quite shy about it, you only mention it when you are specifically asked about it and you don't volunteer it on every single topic like you do with Fuji.
This is my problem, not that you criticize it or you have dissenting opinions. Give the other the fair share otherwise you look very biased.
My other issue is that you keep repeating the same thing over and over, it gets old fast.
While none are perfect, the fact that I was able to handle the X-T2 as well as the D750 is a positive in my book, after all the latter is a well viewed camera handling wise.
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I for one think that careful investigation of a camera's usability with gloves on honours the spirit of Michael Reichmann.
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both terrible, but unlike you & co, I am not shy to say this ... beats me why do you have issues w/ dissenting opinions ;D ... I am not trying to shut you when you express yours, you and co on the other hand ;)
Final warning, DP. Behave or be banned.
Jeremy