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Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Kevin Raber on October 25, 2017, 04:15:14 am

Title: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 25, 2017, 04:15:14 am
Check out the home page of this site for news on the NEW Sony a7r III camera and 24-105mm G lens.  More information will be coming as I have a chance to shoot with this lens.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on October 25, 2017, 11:18:26 am
I wonder if with this version, you don't have to start hitting it with the heal of your hand every time the IBIS sensor on springs gets repeatedly stuck?

Sony Sensor Sticking Problem? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFbtVEzDzy0)

Which is something I find myself having to do more and more these days - when I was a boy living in Sheffield way back when, we used to rent our TV from a local rental store called Wigfall's (which was more commonly known as Wiggies to all their customers) and if ever your TV stopped working, they would send an engineer round (I use the term engineer loosely here), who rather than actually do any work on the TV or take it back to the shop, would instead explain that the valves in the TV had probably developed a dry connection and all the TV really needed was a knock and a few well placed hits with the heal of the hand to rectify the situation (which then became known locally as the "Wiggies Knock"). So they would bash it on the sides a few times and generally try to knock the crap out of it and then turn it back on to see if it worked, which amazingly it sometimes did. So moving on 50 years and I now find myself owning a camera that regularly needs a "Wiggies Knock" just to make it work  :(

None the less, this does sound like an exciting development from Sony and even though I hate the A7R2, I love the quality of the images I can get out of it when it lets me use it, albeit after I have had to spit swear and scream at it and then kick it around the car park a few times, just to make the damn thing work, yet here I am thinking I might get this new version, just for the pixel shift technology and higher capacity battery life, which means I am obviously just a glutton for punishment  ::)

Dave
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Chairman Bill on October 25, 2017, 12:41:42 pm
Dave, my Nikon works fine. Just saying.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 25, 2017, 01:14:33 pm
I have never had an IS issue with my a7r II.  I have taken that camera to both poles and lots of places in between.  They have taken a beating and seems to work fine.  I have spent some time with the a7r III this morning and I am impressed.  Shooting with it for the rest of the day in a few hours.  The joystick and rear focus button are nice additions.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Internaut on October 25, 2017, 01:26:37 pm
It looks like an awful lot of right moves by Sony.  It is to the A9 what the D850 is to the D5.  Sony needed to do this to keep up with Nikon.  By virtue of not having to recalibrate lenses alone, I regard this as a better, more hassle free camera than the Nikon.

Erm... I recently picked up the 24-70 f4.  Am I permitted to cry into my beer?
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on October 25, 2017, 01:35:15 pm
Dave, my Nikon works fine. Just saying.

You know what Bill, if I hadn't got so much money invested in my collection of much superior Canon L lenses, I might have gone for the enviously good D850, even though it does still retain that ridiculous double click mirror lock up nonsense.

But seriously, Canon need to produce something similar to the D850 in association with Sony and their sensors as quickly as possible, if Canon is to survive not just for the next few years, but survive in the camera industry at all.

So hang onto your L lenses guys, as they may become classic relics and highly sought after when Canon cameras finally go pop..

Dave
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on October 25, 2017, 01:48:19 pm
I have never had an IS issue with my a7r II.  I have taken that camera to both poles and lots of places in between.  They have taken a beating and seems to work fine.  I have spent some time with the a7r III this morning and I am impressed.  Shooting with it for the rest of the day in a few hours.  The joystick and rear focus button are nice additions.

Well Kevin that's good for you and I truly am happy for you, but with over 20,000 hits on the link above and lots of comments from other users who do seem to be having the same sticky sensor problem as me, means it isn't the same level of satisfaction for everyone.

But if I am honest, I don't suppose the sticky sensor is really that much of a problem is it, once you realise that all you need to do when the camera refuses to work and doesn't tell you why, is just give it the old "Wiggies Knock" treatment and bash it around a bit, instead of grabbing a few shots of that quickly fading sunset instead :(

OK, so you probably think I am nothing but a complete moaning so-and-so, but I do love the images and the quality that you can get with this camera and I would still recommend it to other Canon users and I am even thinking of stumping up for this new version - oh woe betide me ;)

Oh and the fact that with the A7R3's 'pixel shift technology', which means that it would give me the equivalent of a 126 Mbit native image file, that will compete with and quite possibly blow the top Phase One 100 Mbit MFD sensor out of the water, has really got me salivating already  ;D

Dave
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: StuartOnline on October 25, 2017, 06:48:56 pm
Check out the home page of this site for news on the NEW Sony a7r III camera and 24-105mm G lens.  More information will be coming as I have a chance to shoot with this lens.

Hi Kevin,

Watched the Live Event this morning and have viewed a number of YouTube videos.  It looks impressive. Question for you? With the new feature “pixel shift technology” with Lightroom and or Capture One Pro currently be able to process these files? Or will both programs need updates? This pixel shift technology should be incredible for shooting landscape or arechture.

Cheers!

Stu
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: hsteeves on October 26, 2017, 05:31:45 pm
well, since Pentax has had this pixel shift capability for years, you might want to see how Adobe implemented dealing with the resulting Pentax files - if I remember, it took a while.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: ramd41@gmail.com on October 26, 2017, 08:30:37 pm
Kevin - wow, that's as much of a fan boy post as could have been written by Sony marketing themselves!  Loses a little credibility.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Farmer on October 27, 2017, 12:34:06 am
Kevin - wow, that's as much of a fan boy post as could have been written by Sony marketing themselves!  Loses a little credibility.

From someone with 3 posts to their name?

You know he stated up front that he was a fan.  Does that mean you think he's not telling the truth in any of his assessments?  3 post flames lose a lot of credibility.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: rodney.dugmore on October 27, 2017, 02:51:59 am
 
From someone with 3 posts to their name?

You know he stated up front that he was a fan.  Does that mean you think he's not telling the truth in any of his assessments?  3 post flames lose a lot of credibility.

I have only got a few posts but I have to agree-  In-fact if its not mirror-less or medium format Kevin isn't interested in publishing articles lets be honest here.
So  what do we expect? - probably the truth through rose tinted glasses.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Farmer on October 27, 2017, 04:51:07 am

I have only got a few posts but I have to agree-  In-fact if its not mirror-less or medium format Kevin isn't interested in publishing articles lets be honest here.
So  what do we expect? - probably the truth through rose tinted glasses.

24 of the last 30 articles had nothing to do with either.

Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: rodney.dugmore on October 27, 2017, 06:26:25 am
24 of the last 30 articles had nothing to do with either.


but we were not discussing the non camera related articles or even the number of posts! Simply  the article in questions style and substance. 

In regard to the other content if you are a paid subscriber (as I am) you better like the editorial contents focus and biases else review your subscription.

I fully appreciate that some will not accept criticism in any form -
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on October 27, 2017, 06:41:15 am

I have only got a few posts but I have to agree-  In-fact if its not mirror-less or medium format Kevin isn't interested in publishing articles lets be honest here.
So  what do we expect? - probably the truth through rose tinted glasses.

Kevin and Lula in general post about equipment they use. It has always been mostly like that in the past. They report about what they use and interests them.

I have no problems with biased enthusiasm from users with credibility, which is obviously where Kevin stands.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Farmer on October 27, 2017, 06:56:05 am
but we were not discussing the non camera related articles or even the number of posts! Simply  the article in questions style and substance. 

In regard to the other content if you are a paid subscriber (as I am) you better like the editorial contents focus and biases else review your subscription.

I fully appreciate that some will not accept criticism in any form -

Criticism is fine, but bland name calling and accusations aren't valid criticism.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 27, 2017, 07:09:33 am
I made it clear in my article I use the Sony system as well as others and that I believe in the benefits of mirrorless.  I also know that is you are on youtube or other sites you're going to see the same enthusiasm about this camera.  Why?  Because it is that good.  Sony listened and addressed all the little things they have been bugged about.  As a photographer, I get pretty excited when I shoot a model with EYE-AF and every shot is in focus.

I report objectively but with enthusiasm.  Frankly, there are not many cameras that have many faults like the good ole days. I do like what Sony is doing.  They are listening and they are taking the latest technology and pushing the envelope to create tools that are helping photographers. To me, that's something to get excited about.  I know my fellow journalists like that too.

We have always written about products we use, like and buy here at LuLa. I made it clear I use the gear in the article so there was no doubt I have some bias.  I own the a9 and G-Master lenses and now with this camera replacing my a7r II I have a set-up that can handle just about any subject.  I took the a9 to Greenland and the images are incredible.

I don't know too many photographers who enjoy photography that won't find the a7r II a worthy camera.  I'll be shooting more with this camera over the coming weeks and waiting anxiously like I am now waiting for my iPhone X to arrive.

Early next week I'll publish sample images with this camera with a short video overview.   The images will be ones you can click on the see at 100%. 

For, now I am headed back to the show to find a few more things that interest me and share those with my readers next week.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: DaveCurtis on October 27, 2017, 06:22:03 pm
Great article Kevin.

I currently have the A7R2 with metabones and using with Canon/Zeiss glass. I presume the new A7R mrkIII should focus faster with this combination given the AF upgrade should flow though .

Dave
Title: My take...
Post by: ErikKaffehr on October 28, 2017, 10:02:11 am
Hi,

It seems like a decent update from Sony. Small improvements in image quality and more improvements in usability.

The 24-105 zoom is quite attractive and even decently priced.

Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Chris Kern on October 28, 2017, 11:39:46 am
Is anyone aware of a technical paper describing Sony's implementation of pixel-shift technology?
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Telecaster on October 28, 2017, 02:36:31 pm
Is anyone aware of a technical paper describing Sony's implementation of pixel-shift technology?

I’m not. Seems to be a straightforward process, though. Given that Sony is creating separate files for each (sub-)exposure it could be interesting to see how (or if) 3rd-party developers handle ‘em.

-Dave-
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Jim Kasson on October 28, 2017, 02:47:32 pm
Is anyone aware of a technical paper describing Sony's implementation of pixel-shift technology?

This is Sony. They are usually closed-mouthed about the details of their cameras. AFAIK, they never published a Craw spec, leaving it to the world to reverse-engineer it. They have published nothing about he star-eater algorithm. That's been reverse-engineered now, too. They've published no details about the IBIS implementation in a7x cameras, upon which the px-shift is probably based.

Jim
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Chris Kern on October 28, 2017, 06:13:20 pm
They have published nothing about he star-eater algorithm.

I read the analysis on your website.  I don't do astrophotography, but in my opinion the star-eater problem is yet another of many recent examples where high-tech companies have metaphorically shot themselves in the proverbial foot by not involving a wide enough sample of Beta testers prior to launching a product, even when industrial secrets could not plausibly have been at stake.

They've published no details about the IBIS implementation in a7x cameras, upon which the px-shift is probably based.

Yup—at least, according the the reports in the trade press.  I'm curious about how they account for the interaction of motion by the person operating the camera and the shifting of the matrix of the light sensor between captures.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Tony Jay on October 28, 2017, 06:42:05 pm
In support of Kevin, and before that Michael, I would much rather read a camera review by someone who actually uses the camera.
Cameras are much more than the sum of their technological specifications and both Kevin and Michael were able to get down-and-dirty on the important aspects of real-world use.
This kind of data may be meh to a techno-geek but to those of use who actually shoot and have to invest in and use a camera we all know that cameras with very similar technical specs may differ vastly when it comes to real-world usability...

Kevin's first look was nothing much more than a recital of the technical specs but once he has had a good play with the camera there is no doubt that a much more in-depth review will follow and it will be a warts-and-all appraisal that deals with all the issues that are relevant to photographers as opposed to the techno-geek...

Neither Kevin nor Michael were scared of criticising cameras that they nonetheless liked and used and I don't expect anything to change going forward.

Nuff said

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: DougDolde on October 28, 2017, 06:52:47 pm
Have they fixed the Star Eater ?  Caused small stars to be removed as noise
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Farmer on October 28, 2017, 07:56:26 pm
Neither Kevin nor Michael were scared of criticising cameras that they nonetheless liked and used and I don't expect anything to change going forward.

Well said, Tony.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Jim Kasson on October 28, 2017, 08:07:54 pm

Yup—at least, according the the reports in the trade press.  I'm curious about how they account for the interaction of motion by the person operating the camera and the shifting of the matrix of the light sensor between captures.

If I were designing it, I'd

Compute the sensor motion required to steady the image on the sensor.
Add 0,1,1,1.414 pixel offsets for the four exposures
Tag the images with added shift in the metadata
Let the post software sort it out, including sub-pixel shifts are required to correct for camera sensor position errors.

Jim
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Jim Kasson on October 28, 2017, 08:08:43 pm
Have they fixed the Star Eater ?  Caused small stars to be removed as noise


No, and it's gotten worse in recent FW releases.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: kers on October 29, 2017, 05:39:34 am

No, and it's gotten worse in recent FW releases.

ow!
I think that is a very bad thing.
The integrity of the image should always be intact and it is for the photographer to decide what to do with the data.
As far as i know Nikon has always been very strict about that, also because their cameras are being used for scientific and forensic research.
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: davidgp on October 29, 2017, 06:25:38 am
Have they fixed the Star Eater ?  Caused small stars to be removed as noise

We will need to see the camera in the market to be sure, but TCSTV was saying that they asked to Sony people during the event in New York and nobody wanted to comment about Star Earter... so I’m not hopeful this is fixed



http://dgpfotografia.com
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 29, 2017, 07:00:39 am
I'll be shooting some more with this camera over the coming weeks.  I'll be traveling out west and have my 14mm lens that I use for night photography with me.  I'll give it a try.  I will also try with the Phase One TriChromatic at night.  We'll see what we see. 
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: bjanes on October 29, 2017, 11:17:17 am

I have only got a few posts but I have to agree-  In-fact if its not mirror-less or medium format Kevin isn't interested in publishing articles lets be honest here.
So  what do we expect? - probably the truth through rose tinted glasses.

I have quite a few posts myself, but I don't think a post should be judged solely by the author's number of posts. Sound reasoning and references to respected sources are also important criteria for judging the value of a post, as is the poster's track record. There is no doubt that the Sony mirror-less cameras are an important development in the photo industry and it is good that Kevin is reporting on them. I have been shooting Nikon for nearly 50 years and switching to a different system at this time and at my point in life does not make much sense. If I were younger or independently wealthy, I might well choose the Sony mirror-less route. Since LuLa is increasingly becoming mirror-less and MFDB oriented, it has less to offer me. Diglloyd and Thom Hogan are more to my taste, and I find myself increasingly going to DPReview.

Michael is sorely missed. The breadth of his career both in photography and industry seems to be much broader than Kevin's and his contacts in photography and industry allowed him to recruit authors to supplement his personal experience and preferences. Kevin may not be interested in Nikon (or Canon) but many of his readers are and he needs to broaden the scope of LuLa. A recent thread questioned whether LuLa was past his prime, and regretfully I have to concede that it probably has, at least for me.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: Just published a NEW article on the NEW Sony a7r III
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 29, 2017, 11:49:43 am
Sorry, you feel that way, Bill.  Times are changing.  I am not against Nikon or Canon.  I report on what I use and like.  Canon and Nikon have sort of blacklisted this site after a few run-ins Michael has with them.  Never the less I am trying to look at Nikon and Canon closer again and reestablish relationships.  If you are such a Nikon user maybe you'd like to volunteer to take on being the editor for Nikon related topics and reviews.  If you are interested then PM me. 

There is only so much that a small team like we have here at LuLa can do.  I have made it very clear where I stand gear wise.  I made my choices and have no regrets.  Doesn't mean I play favorites.  I may disagree with you about breadth and career.  I have been shooting and making a living in this industry since 1972.  I have had a large studio, a software company, worked at one of the largest color labs in the country and of Course 13 years at Phase One.  I know a lot of people. 

I am working on structuring LuLa to cover more hardware but that can only be done if someone wants to step up to the plate and handle a particular segment, just like Mark Segal has for printing and papers.  That offer stands for anyone interested. 

All of miss Michael.  Even he saw how things were changing and you may remember he didn't cover much on Nikon and Canon in the last few years.  He like myself concentrated on where we saw the industry and technology going. We both were proponents of image quality and that came at a particular time with MF.

Bill, and anyone else if you are interested in covering a particular hardware or software segment and want to share your knowledge on the site then let me know by PM.  I can get you the gear to work with if needed.  Like I said I do know people and have resources to reach out to.