Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: TomFrerichs on October 24, 2017, 04:08:42 pm
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Warning: really long post...
The good news
Lightroom 6 (perpetual) will satisfy my needs for many years, particularly since Adobe has promised to release Nikon D850 support later this month. I don’t expect to purchase an unsupported camera for some time, and Windows 10 isn’t slated to suddenly change. I’ve got time.
What’s wrong with Lightroom – even Classic?
Not a damn thing. It’s a great program, integrating ingest, DAM, processing, exporting, and printing in one simple, easy to use application. I know some have complained about performance or have claimed that other RAW processors offer better image quality. I have not found any of these to be an issue for me. Lightroom has some warts, but it’s at least as good if not better than any alternative applications currently available…for my needs.
Then why exit? Just suck it up!
Let’s get one thing out of the way. The subscription fee does not bother me. Indeed, it’s amazingly inexpensive for what’s offered. I know some do consider it important, illustrating their point with all sorts of calculations. For me, the 10 USD per month is not a problem. Heck, I just spent $5000 on a new camera body, grip, and lens. That’s a lot of ten-dollar months.
If it isn’t cost that going to cause me to end my subscription, what would? I can only speculate, but I’m not feeling the Adobe love right now.
As Thom Hogan and, I think, Jeff Schewe have pointed out, photographers like me (and I think many other LuLa readers) are not a major component of Adobe’s customer base. If we all discontinued the use of Adobe’s products, we’d have a tiny impact on Adobe’s bottom line. Adobe is not here to serve us; their duty is to their shareholders, which they satisfy by producing applications that generate income. It’s because we like the product that they get that income.
What I fear is that in the future Adobe may either discontinue Lightroom Classic or make such modifications to the program that it would become, for me, unusable. Oh, I’m sure they will support Classic “indefinitely.” I don’t trust their definition of that word.
If you think that Adobe wouldn’t do such a thing, harken back to the great import dialog crisis. To their credit, Adobe rolled back that change fairly quickly, but if some other change proves as unpopular, yet better serves a larger customer base, would they roll back? I don’t think so. I think Adobe is looking to get a piece of the cloud-based pie: the Instagram, smartphone, connected customer and their work. If a feature added to serve those new customers conflicted with something a desktop using, unconnected-camera owning, old fart like me uses, then I don’t think my view would win. I’d think they’d follow the money, as they should.
I also dread the new names, “Classic” and “Lightroom CC,” the latter of which took over the previous name for the subscription version of LR 6. It’s as though Adobe is expecting the new “CC” to take on the role of primary Lightroom application, while “Classic” will be maintained for compatibility.
So what if your subscription ends?
At least currently, if I subscribe and my subscription ends, then my raw and JPEGs will still be spinning on my drive. I will still be able to access my catalog, print, and export from those image files. What would I lose?
Of course, I’d lose the ability to modify previously processed images; this is understood. What I’d really lose is the ability to apply anything I’d learned or done to anything new. I couldn’t add new images to the catalog, so I’d end up either redoing everything or maintaining two different systems for DAM. It’d almost be like two epochs, BSE and ASE (Before Subscription Ended and After Subscription Ended).
If I migrate from Lightroom now, I’ll still face that same messy problem. All I’ve done is move the transition to an earlier date, with one exception: by doing so now, while I still have a perpetually licensed version of Lightroom, I avoid losing functionality in the future. I understand that LR Classic updates the catalog, making it incompatible with LR6. This is the same behavior as previous major releases have done. So long as I don’t upgrade, I can continue to use LR 6 for many years, even after I’ve migrated to a different workflow. If I go subscription, I don’t have this backout.
So what am I going to do?
I’ve come to the conclusion that one of Lightroom’s primary strengths, the integration of ingest, DAM, etc., is also a weakness. With LR, I can’t realistically keep one part and ignore the rest. If I want to print, the image has to be in the catalog. If I want to add something to the catalog, it has to be supported by the develop module. With LR I get all or none.
For this reason I’ve decided that I’m better off using separate applications to handle the major divisions of my workflow. I know this means that I’m going to be paying more money and that there’ll be frustrations getting it all to work together, but I honestly don’t see a better way forwards.
For example, I’m leaning towards using Photo Mechanic to do ingest. I know very well it’s not a DAM, but it does offer a configurable way to ingest and store image files. It also allows some simple, and in some cases automated, methods of initial DAM work such as keywording, etc. From my very initial look, it writes standard XMP sidecars.
There are a number of DAM solutions at various price points and capabilities. I’m a bit leery of open source solutions because I am concerned about future support. Some open source software is very, very good, but in time interest wains and it becomes stuck in the past. Of course there’s no way I’m going to look at Cantos Cumulus, at a mere $30,000 per license, but I am taking a look at Media One SE. I’m still trying to figure out how well it integrates with Capture One. I don’t want to get stuck using Capture One’s DAM, even if I use CO’s raw processor. That’d put me back into the one application to rule them all prison.
There’re a number of raw processors, and almost every raw processor allows JPEG and TIFF exporting, which would allow me to provide cooked files to my clients and permit processing by Photoshop, Affinity, or other raster editors as necessary.
So far I’ve just looked at QImage Ultimate for printing, and it looks as though it will be satisfactory. But there are other alternatives to explore, including high priced RIPs.
If anyone has suggestions, I’d be more than interested in learning of your experiences.
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Concise answer: wait and watch. Adobe have only shot themselves in the foot, not in the head.
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Foolish...fearing the future and allowing it to negatively impact your present is foolish. But it's your life to spend (or waste) as you will...
Adobe "may" do a lot of things but to cut off your nose now because at some point in the future Adobe may not support Lightroom in the flavor you want it is really giving Adobe too much power over your life. Use whatever tool you want to use but for heavens sake, why use anything that negatively impacts your work?
Personally, I really question the the behavior and thinking of so many photographers who seem to feel the whole world revolves around them and scream bloody murder when things change and force them to alter their habits...
Go right ahead and assemble a variety of replacement apps to use instead of Lightroom. Have fun...I'm sure it will make your life far more complicated and inefficient. Be sure to stop by and fill us in on your success (or failure to do so).
In the meantime, a lot of people will be getting a lot of work done slightly more efficiently and a little bit better with Lightroom Classic vs the previous iterations of Lightroom.
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If anyone has suggestions, I’d be more than interested in learning of your experiences.
Two points:
(1) I'm on the LR/PS bundle subscription using LR 6.x. It performs beautifully. I'm staying there until I'm satisfied no serious non-repaired bugs will affect usability of the new upgrade.
(2) I shall continue to pay my 10 USD/month for this bundle and upgrade to LR Classic 7 once the aforementioned waiting period is over with. It remains the most practical, fully-featured and efficient solution from camera to print/slides/web/books on the market, and the output quality is fine in the hands of competent users.
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Concise answer: wait and watch.
Agreed.
If you're happy with LR6 on Win10 and aren't expecting to buy an unsupported camera there's no need for any urgent concern or change. Just carry on enjoying working with LR6 and be happy not to be spending more cash on something you've lived without until now anyway. There's no need to panic. You only have a concern when it might stop working for you.
Schewe's comment is somewhat debatable though;
"Go right ahead and assemble a variety of replacement apps to use instead of Lightroom. Have fun...I'm sure it will make your life far more complicated and inefficient."
Picking up other software when on offer and cheap, may well prove helpful in the long term. Having, say, Qimage and Affinity sitting on the hard drive won't break the bank, but both have options that neither LR or PS offer that might help you regardless.
More importantly, looking at other approaches broadens one's experience and knowledge and can lead to new ways of approaching post processing that may in turn improve what you do in LR.
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Schewe's comment is somewhat debatable though;
But don't you remember before Aperture / Lightroom? I recall stringing together a "workflow" that involved a series of apps. You can do it, and it was wonderful once DNG meant I could see my adjustments in my catalogue (Extensis, tehniView), but what a fxxxing waste of time and energy!
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"Personally, I really question the the behavior and thinking of so many photographers who seem to feel the whole world revolves around them and scream bloody murder when things change and force them to alter their habits..."
Like an election???
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"Personally, I really question the the behavior and thinking of so many photographers who seem to feel the whole world revolves around them and scream bloody murder when things change and force them to alter their habits..."
Like an election???
Pulease, let's not go there!
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Pulease, let's not go there!
Thank you for that.
Tom
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Picking up other software when on offer and cheap, may well prove helpful in the long term. Having, say, Qimage and Affinity sitting on the hard drive won't break the bank, but both have options that neither LR or PS offer that might help you regardless.
That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.
Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)
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That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.
Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)
This point is bang on. I personally don't have the time to waste playing around with some new software when I can be doing something more productive with my time.
If it ain't broke...don't try and fix it...that's how I feel about LR / PS. That might change next year or 5 years from now...but today...it just trucks along.
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That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.
Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)
But one can stay with LR6 and use Affinity Photo as a PS replacement if one did not already have PS CS6. One can wait to see what Affinity does with their DAM project which should come out next year. It may or may not be as good as LR but right now Affinity are not on a subscription model.
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Like an election???
Kevin, please keep this type of comment away from this discussion.
Chris
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currently Windows only.
My comment was addressed to the OP who is on Windows, BUT Affinity is both Mac and Win and Qimage is now in beta for the Mac anyway.
but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps ...........How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles?
Hardly a steep learning curve on those programs. Anyone fluent in PS will know the fundamentals well enough to get on with productive work fast.
However you fail to acknowledge that these programs can offer new and better options than LR & PS which can be well worth the minor effort of getting to grips with them.
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But again, don't you remember the old world before LR / Aperture? You didn't just need fluency, you needed ingenuity and time to make a series of "best of breed" apps work together smoothly. We easily forget the advantages of managing, tagging, adjusting and outputting in a single app.
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But again, don't you remember the old world before LR / Aperture?
Yes, you're right LR is undoubtedly the slickest solution to RAW workflow. We'd love to see it's licencing model continue as it has done in the past, but many of us aren't going to be Adobe's cash cows so we look elsewhere.
It might not be more efficient to use other programs, but alternatives can sometimes offer ultimately better results anyway. For those that don't rely on photo software for a living don't need to worry too much about some minor inefficiencies, end results matter.
Yes, those with financial interests in Adobe (or just plain fan bois) will try to defend whatever it does to the end, but the clear heads will make up their own minds.
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Yes, you're right LR is undoubtedly the slickest solution to RAW workflow. We'd love to see it's licencing model continue as it has done in the past, but many of us aren't going to be Adobe's cash cows so we look elsewhere.
It might not be more efficient to use other programs, but alternatives can sometimes offer ultimately better results anyway. For those that don't rely on photo software for a living don't need to worry too much about some minor inefficiencies, end results matter.
Yes, those with financial interests in Adobe (or just plain fan bois) will try to defend whatever it does to the end, but the clear heads will make up their own minds.
Sorry, but I don't think I said anything insulting to you, but you come back with that? Is that your best response?
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Yes, those with financial interests in Adobe (or just plain fan bois) will try to defend whatever it does to the end, but the clear heads will make up their own minds.
Paul, I don't think it provides value-added here to dumb-down the discussion by categorizing people in this false manner. One can choose to buy a subscription or not for rational objective reasons supporting either option without having any financial interest in the company, without being a fan-boy and while still being very clear-minded. Different people in different circumstances will do what they think is best for themselves for sensible reasons. A discussion in a Forum like this should help to inform these decisions rather than to denigrate the contributors with suppositions of defective character traits. We are trying to keep this forum at a professional and decent level, devoid of personal innuendo which contributes nothing constructive to the dialog.
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A discussion in a Forum like this should help to inform these decisions
quite right. A point that I've tried to make is that there are options available today if one wants to stay with LR6 (provided no new cameras are in the equation) or even stop paying the subscription for current LR CC. If only the develop module is disabled one can still stay on LR for the DAM and printing abilities and use an external program such as Affinity Photo to do the developing tasks. Sure it's a somewhat convoluted but not like adding a hodgepodge of different programs. For those on LR6 'perpetual' one doesn't have some of the new features that the subscribers have but it will still do more the 90% of what users need. This way one can keep their powder dry to see what Affinity or MacPhun do with their DAM/develop programs that are supposed to be released in 2018. If they are not as robust as LR one can always subscribe to LR and move forward.
I don't think things are as difficult as some have posted.
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To add my nickel's worth of comment here. I started my 'digital photography life' with Bridge and Photoshop, and that was fine. then I purchased a Leica M9 which came with Lightroom 4, I think. I found LR to be most useful, especially after viewing the LR video from LULA. I moved to the subscription model a while ago, and now have updated to the Classic, which works just fine.
LR very much duplicated my darkroom methods, even at keeping printing notes: I used to make copious notes on paper grade, burning, dodging, development time, and so on for my prints just so that I would be able to reprint a negative with at least a good start. With LR, that is all kept together with the image or the virtual copy, simply amazing.
I really don't think that there are that many new features that can be aded to LR, refining masks methods is about all that I am looking for. LR today is just like a kitchen appliance, at some point there is no possible new useful feature for stove or kettle.
I look upon the continuing cost of using LR to be similar purchasing darkroom chemistry: every roll or sheet used up some amount of the chemistry and you purchased new supplies. LR is far less expensive!
I am not keen on the non-Classic CC. I prefer to keep all my files at home.
I am also quite certain that at some point, far in the future I hope, LR or our current digital methods will become obsolete; our files in the cloud or on hard drives will not be readable by the newest and bestest whatever. So, any image worth keeping should, must, be printed. Prints will remain human-readable well after the digital era is replaced by something else.
Jean-Michel
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quite right. A point that I've tried to make is that there are options available today if one wants to stay with LR6 (provided no new cameras are in the equation) or even stop paying the subscription for current LR CC. If only the develop module is disabled one can still stay on LR for the DAM and printing abilities and use an external program such as Affinity Photo to do the developing tasks. Sure it's a somewhat convoluted but not like adding a hodgepodge of different programs. For those on LR6 'perpetual' one doesn't have some of the new features that the subscribers have but it will still do more the 90% of what users need. This way one can keep their powder dry to see what Affinity or MacPhun do with their DAM/develop programs that are supposed to be released in 2018. If they are not as robust as LR one can always subscribe to LR and move forward.
I don't think things are as difficult as some have posted.
Fully agree.
I'd like to add that, despite my close to 20 years of experience with Photoshop, I've been pleasantly surprised by many of Affinity Photo's features. I've also added their Affinity Designer application to my alternatives, for specific Vector based and page layout tasks, but both can handle Raster images and Vector images up to a point.
It's interesting to see some of the much better implementations of relevant tools in these products that do not lean on past choices. So there is a learning curve for the new functionality or the new ways of doing the same things as before, but all in all, it's been a pleasant trip preparing for future contingency (especially when not under time pressure, so I started early, at a discount). They do need to work a bit more on speed (especially on huge file sizes), but they're a clever lot so I have confidence. They also run a public Beta program for the next versions, so users can see in advance what's cooking and follow the progress on their forums.
Cheers,
Bart
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That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.
Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)
Good thing I didn't suffer from the the fear of a daunting learning curve experience when exploring various options when I first looked into Photoshop 25 years ago or Lightroom over a decade ago or when seeking out a top drawer sharpening solution like PK Sharpener in between .... my curiosity served me well and the time invested checking out those options was well spent.
It's not all that different from learning the nuances and placements of controls when purchasing a new car. Sliders are sliders. It doesn't take long to discover if a new alternative is worthy of further investigation. It's better to make an informed decision by actually kicking the tires and taking a test drive rather than to dismiss all other options out of hand.
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Good thing I didn't suffer from the the fear of a daunting learning curve experience when exploring various options when I first looked into Photoshop 25 years ago or Lightroom over a decade ago or when seeking out a top drawer sharpening solution like PK Sharpener in between .... my curiosity served me well and the time invested checking out those options was well spent.
It's not all that different from learning the nuances and placements of controls when purchasing a new car. Sliders are sliders. It doesn't take long to discover if a new alternative is worthy of further investigation. It's better to make an informed decision by actually kicking the tires and taking a test drive rather than to dismiss all other options out of hand.
But then if your car still works properly...do you still go into all the different dealers, kick the tires and do a test drive just to stay informed with what’s out there? Personally when it’s time for a new vehicle ( image processing software ) that is when I do my homework, not when what I have functions just fine.
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I really don't think that there are that many new features that can be aded to LR, refining masks methods is about all that I am looking for. LR today is just like a kitchen appliance, at some point there is no possible new useful feature for stove or kettle.
I keep hearing that from some, but I just don't buy it... Think of having the power of Photoshop/Affinity, but completely non-destructive (therefore also hopefully smaller file sizes as well). Among that, the possibility of compositing multiple unrelated images to a scene-referred DNG - just like the HDR and panos we have now. I think there's plenty more that can be done - or so I hope.
I am not keen on the non-Classic CC. I prefer to keep all my files at home.
You're not alone on that. I don't want even a single catalog to be stored on their servers. I don't use anything mobile, except for a cellular phone app - and a laptop. (Albeit for me, that's really due to medical issues.)
I am also quite certain that at some point, far in the future I hope, LR or our current digital methods will become obsolete; our files in the cloud or on hard drives will not be readable by the newest and bestest whatever. So, any image worth keeping should, must, be printed. Prints will remain human-readable well after the digital era is replaced by something else.
I could be one of the rarer ones.. I haven't printed a single photo yet. I also keep meaning to scan old photos/negatives -- but it's turning out that if it isn't digital, it just doesn't seem to exist for me. 8)
Digital, or 'electronic', just isn't going to go away. It will only advance and change forms gradually. And if we limit this to our personal lifetime, images will only have to be moved to different mediums: cassette drives, floppy drives, Zip Disks, hard drives --- CD's, DVD's, BD-r(25-100 or more?)'s. Readability-wise, Jpg and and even Tiff's are so ingrained that they will be readable for very VERY long time to come - and DNG has the best chance of becoming similar for our raws, save for some remaining sticks in the mud. If not, they could be converted to something else - as there will always be a [very] long interim period... Take printed photographs for example, and how long that 'fad' lasted ;D --- but printed photographs and negatives fade over time - digital doesn't... Only the media changes.
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But then if your car still works properly...do you still go into all the different dealers, kick the tires and do a test drive just to stay informed with what’s out there? Personally when it’s time for a new vehicle ( image processing software ) that is when I do my homework, not when what I have functions just fine.
Sure why not? You have never driven by an auto dealer lot, saw an interesting vehicle and want to know more about it?
How do you know if your current vehicle (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?
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How do you know if your current vehicle (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?
I guess because at some point I want to stop kicking tyres and just enjoy the drive in what I have.
Discussions like this are very helpful, but one size is not going to fit all.
For example I think what I have now works, and new features or cameras will not make me a better photographer. If I need to do something new, I want to roll up my sleeves and make what I have do the job.
I have no intention of cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I'd prefer not going the subscription route. Each to his own. It doesn't make sense for me workflow wise, or financially, but good luck to Adobe.
I only upgrade LR when I have a new camera. When I went to LR6 to see my Fuji X-T2 files, I appreciated the panorama stitching. Being able to quickly see how the stitches were turning out speeded up my workflow. I use stitching a lot to change the effective focal length and f stop of a lens.
On the other hand, lights out no longer works with two screens, so I have to turn one screen off for cropping. The tech chap at Adobe was working to a script and was unable to help. Also I see that Adobe have tightened up their verification in a tiresome way, and LR appears to want to report back to Adobe regularly. I've disabled this feature. There's to much snooping nowadays under the guise of "product improvement".
CS5 is doing everything I want. I can finally make it dance under my fingertips. I wouldn't mind having the the dithering option on masks in CS6 to deal to banding, but adding noise to the mask is effective. Using Tony Kuyper's luminosity masks, Margulis's workflow panel, Nik and sundry plug-ins are more important for me and I don't want to find some random upgrade has stuffed them up à la what we see with our operating systems.
Curiously, now I've switched to Fuji, I mainly use LR as a base to load other software. I do my raw conversion in other programs, never use the sharpening or de-noising, I use Autopano for detailed stitching, and white balance the highlights, midtones and shadows separately in CS5 setting the white and blackpoints for the specific paper and profile.
The only thing I really use a lot is the print module as it's faster than Qimage and mostly the quality is just as good if the file is properly prepared.
I'm so over new cameras and software. I want to focus on where that lens is pointing and translating what I see in my mind's eye onto a lovely piece of paper on a wall.
I think this camera will do me for a long time, and when I need to go to a new model there will likely be lots of options from Affinity, One1 and others. Though I will probably go to Capture 1.
David
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After trying other apps I still prefer Lightroom but Adobe as a company is like nails scratching on a blackboard. So I'm gritting my teeth and will continue to subscribe to the photography plan.
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After trying other apps I still prefer Lightroom but Adobe as a company is like nails scratching on a blackboard. So I'm gritting my teeth and will continue to subscribe to the photography plan.
Yep.. That's where I'm at too. It's still the best, most comprehensive one for now, but I abhor their business practices so much that I'm keeping my eyes open now. I'm not rich, I'm 'only' a hobbyist, I don't know how to use Photoshop - and I'm a very low volume shooter. I largely like to just redo previous edits to get them in a new direction, or even use new tools on them sometimes, like the wonderful range masking now available for Classic. Not having a fully-functioning 'escape clause', even after say 3/4/5 years of subscribing really has me on edge. I would really love to stick with Lightroom Classic, and may end up doing so, but....
But I digress... I'm trying my best to stay out of this one on this board since I seem to be in the minority on that here. :-X
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Sure why not? You have never driven by an auto dealer lot, saw an interesting vehicle and want to know more about it?
How do you know if your current vehicle (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?
Nope...never window shop at the auto dealer...that's just lust out of control.
Always doubting what you have and looking over the fence to see what the neighbour has is just a loosing battle. I don't need the "best"...I just need what works for me and allows me to produce my art the way I like. I don't get onto the rat wheel and continuously chase the latest greatest thing just to have the latest greatest thing. I'd rather spend my time in much more productive activities...some of which involve photography...life's to short to continually chase.
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I keep hearing that from some, but I just don't buy it... Think of having the power of Photoshop/Affinity, but completely non-destructive (therefore also hopefully smaller file sizes as well). Among that, the possibility of compositing multiple unrelated images to a scene-referred DNG - just like the HDR and panos we have now. I think there's plenty more that can be done - or so I hope.
Hi,
In fact, Affinity Photo has a lot (most, and then some) of that. It has "Live Filter Layers" (see attached) that can be saved and reversibly (often incorrectly called non-destructively) changed in 'real-time'. It has quite decent Pano Stitching (with the possibility to adjust the individual input image tiles and seam blending), it has Focus Stitching, and it has specific (HDRI) tonemapping functionality.
Cheers,
Bart
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Sure why not? You have never driven by an auto dealer lot, saw an interesting vehicle and want to know more about it?
How do you know if your current vehicle (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?
My wife and I agree that our 1999 Camry is the best car we've ever owned.
My 2012 Prius gets better gas mileage, but it's a pain in so many other ways.
I'm sticking with LR6 and CS6 (perpetual licenses) until the crankshaft freezes. ;)
P.S. I've just driven by the showroom of Affinity and I've decided to take it for a test spin.
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Nope...never window shop at the auto dealer...that's just lust out of control.
That comment is so absurd it's difficult to take you seriously.
It's rather silly you would twist a comment illustrating natural curiosity with uncontrolled lust. The premise is purely ludicrous.
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That comment is so absurd it's difficult to take you seriously.
It's rather silly you would twist a comment illustrating natural curiosity with uncontrolled lust. The premise is purely ludicrous.
Well Butch you are the one that indicated doing test drives to see if your vehicle was up to snuff compared to the latest standards...not I. Otherwise..."How do you know if your current vehicle (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?"
I'll leave it at this since this is way off topic. You go ahead an keep looking for that greener pasture...I'll just use my old and trusty LR.
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Adobe is herding.. Counting on complacency, and a cycle of: Noooo! -- eh, well, what are ya gonna do? -- Here, please take my money! A billion dollar virtual monopoly fully planned for this to happen.
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If you're going to stick with one piece of perpetual license software such as LR6 far into the future, you might want to make a list of all the used computers that can run it on the OS it's compatible with.
Software needs hardware to run on and computers don't last forever but software does especially perpetual licenses.
I'm still using CS5 ACR on a 2010 Mac Mini and OS 10.6.8 even though I have LR4 which I don't like to use due to its design and cludges that affect black point previews.
I'm still working on Raw images as we speak. It still takes too long as it did with LR4 but I enjoy it as a hobby.
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.... Of course, lest not forget there's always going to be virtual machines, too. It may or may not end up running slower, but at least you should be able to run it. :)
Heck, I've even used Commodore 64 and Commodore AMIGA emulators for nostalgia. I keep meaning to get back to playing around with them some more.
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Heck, I've even used Commodore 64 and Commodore AMIGA emulators for nostalgia. I keep meaning to get back to playing around with them some more.
If I still had my Commodore 64, with its version of Frogger (much better than the later translations to PC), I might be willing to give up Lightroom and sell my remaining cameras! ;D
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If I still had my Commodore 64, with its version of Frogger (much better than the later translations to PC), I might be willing to give up Lightroom and sell my remaining cameras! ;D
I still have an actual working (last I checked) 'portable' SX-64 and a bunch of floppy's (and a 300 or 1200 baud modem, IIRC).. Back when portable meant ~23 lbs! :o
Don't think I got Frogger though.. I was into ones like the Ultima's, Questron, Bard's tale, and Telengard, etc.
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Here, please take my money! A billion dollar virtual monopoly fully planned for this to happen.
Here's some insight Adobe investor handout October 2017 (http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/investor-relations/pdfs/ADBE-Investor-Handout-October2017.pdf)
Financial analyst briefing slides October 2017 (http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/investor-relations/pdfs/adobe-financial-analyst-briefing-slides-18OCT2017.pdf)
Adobe Reports Record Revenue September 2017 (http://news.adobe.com/files/press_release/additional/AdobeQ317Earnings_0.pdf)
Adobe Financial Targets September 2017 (http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/investor-relations/pdfs/91907102/4A23iMf9fEl1.pdf)
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To avoid the appearance of prejudice, please supply equivalent links for other public companies.
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To avoid the appearance of prejudice, please supply equivalent links for other public companies.
I was looking analyticaly just at the two companies in my interest: Adobe and Phase One. Here's the Phase One's Annual Report 2016 (https://regnskaber.cvrapi.dk/99698871/ZG9rdW1lbnRsYWdlcjovLzAzLzNiL2JkLzgyLzIxLzFlNmEtNDJjNC04MDlkLTVkYTk3ZTYwNTg0MA.pdf)
Disclaimer: I use C1, but have previously used Lightroom 1 & 2. I still use Photoshop CS3, though.
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While the financial strengths of Adobe and Capture One are of great interest, aren't we wondering a bit from the original topic just a bit? I'm just tickled that Adobe is doing so well because I think one of my investment portfolios include Adobe. However, please remember, I'm the whiny photographer who thinks the world revolves about him, objects to change, and is looking at alternatives to Lightroom. Apparently I'm also good at facial mutilation, although I could probably do with a nose job when all's said and done. (grin)
Thank you all for your comments, even those that suggest I'm an idiot. Those last aren't going to change my mind, but they are framing the discussion.
Yes, I am aware of hardware and OS changes that could affect me and am prepared. Fortunately, I use Windows, which amazing seems to be more stable in versioning that the OS on Macs. Notice I said versioning, not operational stability. It does seem that the Mac folks have had more recent challenges when Apple retires deprecated APIs for various functions or makes other OS changes.
I've been working with Affinity and DxO's new PhotoLab. At this point I'm starting to find my way around the UIs, and I can probably accomplish whatever I need to do with either. My DAM software search is continuing, although I am discovering an advantage I hadn't thought about when using a non-LR DAM. (Just add "clueless" to whiny in the description above.) I have a large number of non-image documents to keep track of, and I've been using the old standby of directory structure to do so. I hadn't considered that a full featured DAM could help there as well as keep my image assets in order.
Tom
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My DAM software search is continuing, although I am discovering an advantage I hadn't thought about when using a non-LR DAM.
This is just one of many DAMs for Windows iMatch (https://www.photools.com/imatch/) I am on a Mac without a need for DAM, but they exist also for the Mac, like NeoFinder (http://www.cdfinder.de/en/info.html)
A while ago I did try Media Pro SE though and it was crashing all the time.
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Two points:
(1) I'm on the LR/PS bundle subscription using LR 6.x. It performs beautifully. I'm staying there until I'm satisfied no serious non-repaired bugs will affect usability of the new upgrade.
(2) I shall continue to pay my 10 USD/month for this bundle and upgrade to LR Classic 7 once the aforementioned waiting period is over with. It remains the most practical, fully-featured and efficient solution from camera to print/slides/web/books on the market, and the output quality is fine in the hands of competent users.
Mark, this sounds like my situation (I have Lr 2015.6.1 though). How will you determine the time is right for the upgrade?
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Mark, this sounds like my situation (I have Lr 2015.6.1 though). How will you determine the time is right for the upgrade?
Hi Jeffrey - if another couple of months goes by with no signs of serious unattended issues I'll feel comfortable making the upgrade. So far it's looking pretty good from what I've been reading.
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I value your voice here, Mark. If a couple of months is right for you, so it will be for me.
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I upgraded from LR1.1 to LR5.7. It seems to work fine on Windows... and I generally believe that if an image needs lots of work, it would probably be better to go out and try to make a better one in the camera.
So while I have no interest in the subscription model atm, I'm not in any rush to find an alternative either. I'd guess I'll be good for another few years.
Maybe at that stage Adobe will re-discover an interest in an LR-lite sold with perpetual license.
YMMV, of course.
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I migrated from LR to Capture One Pro for Sony almost two years ago but still use PS6. It is not a DAM like LR although it does have Catalogs and a keyword search function. No time needed (or very little) to adapt to it's interface and tools if you are comfortable with LR.
I am also using Affinity Photo more now with it's very impressive Focus Stacking and Live Filter Layers, quite similar to PS in many ways, a bit different in others, impressive. Quimage has been my go-to for printing for years now, takes a bit to warm up to the interface but well worth the short investment in time (there is a MAC beta out now). I prefer dedicated programs for panoramas and tone-mapping (HDR) although as Bart mentioned Affinity does a good job at those. I am not anti-Adobe at all, have just explored alternatives and like them.
Dave
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I don't have an exit strategy, just a strategy to not (or not quickly) move to the CC model.
I'll just keep LR6.13 "perpetual" and forego the "upgrades" to the development module for some time. Most other feature upgrades are of no interest to me and even the develop module upgrades are marginal for my use. When a future camera is no longer supported I could even hold out longer by converting the files to dng and import those in LR6.
When all of that becomes unpractical or I feel I'm missing out on key upgrades I might go to CC, but I think I can hold out like I currently work for several years to come and when the time has come I'll look at the available options then, no need to worry about that today.