Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: David Watson on September 12, 2017, 03:18:51 pm
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I just watched the Apple keynote presentation as I have done for the past ten years - I like their stuff. Having been amazed at the image quality from my iPhone 7 I will have no hesitation in buying a new iPhone 10 ASAP if only to upset my great-nieces and great-nephews. For serious "considered" photography I have my D810 and my Hasselblad but am I a Neanderthal and threatened with extinction? I don't think so as long as I keep printing (the bigger the better) and perhaps someday a distant descendant will look at my prints in an archive, as we do now with cave paintings, and say gosh "this oldie stuff is cool" but where does our AR tour take us next.
Goodbye prints, goodbye travel - hello brave new world??
Just an old guys thoughts.
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Probably better to have been posted in the mobile photography forum. I use my phone, but I prefer a different camera experience for most things, so I doubt cameras and lenses will be replaced by anything apple pops out for the mobile market. A fixed lens is limited, add on lenses are junk for the most part.
Alan
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I find cellphones OK for on the run stuff. But if I'm traveling, I'd rather use a real camera, even a point and shoot is better that I can see what I'm shooting in the strong sun and the ergonomics are terrible on cell phones. Also, no zoom. Having said that, you can get good shots, but it takes more work. This is from a 4 year old Samsung S4. I've upgraded to a S7. But the problems are still the same.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums/72157683436803336
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I look at it from a slightly different perspective. With 4K video I could keep me from a GoPro purchase.
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I look at it from a slightly different perspective. With 4K video I could keep me from a GoPro purchase.
No kidding. To say nothing of 1080P/240fps and OIS.
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Here in Portugal this type of phone ruins close to EUR 1,000. For my photography, I would rather spend the money elsewhere.
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I just watched the Apple keynote presentation as I have done for the past ten years - I like their stuff. Having been amazed at the image quality from my iPhone 7 I will have no hesitation in buying a new iPhone 10 ASAP if only to upset my great-nieces and great-nephews. For serious "considered" photography I have my D810 and my Hasselblad but am I a Neanderthal and threatened with extinction? I don't think so as long as I keep printing (the bigger the better) and perhaps someday a distant descendant will look at my prints in an archive, as we do now with cave paintings, and say gosh "this oldie stuff is cool" but where does our AR tour take us next.
Goodbye prints, goodbye travel - hello brave new world??
Just an old guys thoughts.
Another old guy's thought is that it's just another sinking asset status symbol.
However, a new steel bracelet for a Rolex Submariner will cost you north of €1200, so go figure... I decided to keep the old, stretched-beyond-springs'-capacity one I have had since '72. Keeping the watch, too. That comes in, apparently, at more than €12,500 today - for something that cost me around £100 back in the 70s. Amazing. Wish my other "investments" had been as clever. Had I known, I'd have bought a box of watches instead of wasting money producing now useless stock images, I'd be sitting pretty, selling one off each year just to make the pension feel better...
As for the cellphone - simply more greedy nonsense from the electronic world of games. Apple and its market deserve one another.
Rob
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Here in Portugal this type of phone ruins close to EUR 1,000. For my photography, I would rather spend the money elsewhere.
I have printed some iPhone photos and at 100% they look awful but in print hold up to A4-A3. A quality good enough for magazine covers as evidence has showed.
I look at it as a very different type of camera than my FF It can do things my FF cannot do and vice versa and you always have it with you and you get a phone + mobile computer extra.
Would like to see if the quality again has improved with the latest models.
One of my main problems is how to get the real quality of my photos published- Internet rules.
and also here- Bernard shows his 100MP files small, we have never seen the true quality of his photos; and to be honest at this small size i cannot see anything special, or it must be the look of a lens.
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Am I missing something regarding iPhone replacing compact cameras? For reasons of lifestyle I am frequently caught out with nothing but my iPhone 5S. The pictures are fine shared with another phone but opened up on a laptop screen or printed out A4 they are awful and sometimes default to a sort of impressionistic water colour style. Not remotely comparable to pictures from my 9 year old Lumix LX3
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I have printed some iPhone photos and at 100% they look awful but in print hold up to A4-A3. A quality good enough for magazine covers as evidence has showed.
I look at it as a very different type of camera than my FF It can do things my FF cannot do and vice versa and you always have it with you and you get a phone + mobile computer extra.
Would like to see if the quality again has improved with the latest models.
One of my main problems is how to get the real quality of my photos published- Internet rules.
and also here- Bernard shows his 100MP files small, we have never seen the true quality of his photos; and to be honest at this small size i cannot see anything special, or it must be the look of a lens.
My comment was more on the price they charge for this stuff. Not only from Apple, mind you; Samsung top phones are also very expensive. People are willing to pay this sort of money to get the phones as status symbols, go figure where the values of society have gone to...
Sure, I will never buy a small sensor compact camera again, since my phone takes adequate snapshots and videos. But I also refuse to pay these ***nographic prices.
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My comment was more on the price they charge for this stuff. Not only from Apple, mind you; Samsung top phones are also very expensive. People are willing to pay this sort of money to get the phones as status symbols, go figure where the values of society have gone to...
Sure, I will never buy a small sensor compact camera again, since my phone takes adequate snapshots and videos. But I also refuse to pay these ***nographic prices.
And yet we'll pay upwards of $4,000 for a camera and another $5,000 in lenses...when older generation cameras and lenses do just fine and can be purchased for 1/10 the price of new. Look at all the sheeple lining up to purchase the D850 when they already have very capable gear...just like the sheeple lining up for the latest iPhone even though they already have a phone.
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And yet we'll pay upwards of $4,000 for a camera and another $5,000 in lenses...when older generation cameras and lenses do just fine and can be purchased for 1/10 the price of new. Look at all the sheeple lining up to purchase the D850 when they already have very capable gear...just like the sheeple lining up for the latest iPhone even though they already have a phone.
You're right. Many, many people have toys that they really enjoy and they always want the latest and greatest. Whether it is cameras, watches, cell phones, golf clubs or audio, or you name it, they can justify the latest and greatest when they already have the latest and greatest from 8 months ago. Whereas other people have those same classes of toys that they really love, but one or two or three generations old because they recognize that they more than meet their needs (as opposed to their wants).
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I take lotsa pics with my phone 'cuz it's the camera I always have with me. Image quality is good enough for most purposes despite being a 4-year-old gizmo.
I'll likely get an iPhone 8 Plus for Xmas due to the increases in speed & storage capacity as well as the higher-res camera(s). The X looks a bit too form over function for my taste, though we'll see if that plays out in actual use.
The two cameras I've used most during 2017, not counting the phone, are now 8 and 5 years old and lack autofocus. :)
-Dave-
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I just watched the Apple keynote presentation as I have done for the past ten years - I like their stuff. Having been amazed at the image quality from my iPhone 7 I will have no hesitation in buying a new iPhone 10 ASAP if only to upset my great-nieces and great-nephews. For serious "considered" photography I have my D810 and my Hasselblad but am I a Neanderthal and threatened with extinction? I don't think so as long as I keep printing (the bigger the better) and perhaps someday a distant descendant will look at my prints in an archive, as we do now with cave paintings, and say gosh "this oldie stuff is cool" but where does our AR tour take us next.
Goodbye prints, goodbye travel - hello brave new world??
Just an old guys thoughts.
Who says you can't do serious photography with any camera; never mind a camera phone or pocket digital camera.
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Here is a shot from this morning with my iPhone 7 plus
(http://hanskrusephotography.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p2518096689.jpg)
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Am I missing something regarding iPhone replacing compact cameras? For reasons of lifestyle I am frequently caught out with nothing but my iPhone 5S. The pictures are fine shared with another phone but opened up on a laptop screen or printed out A4 they are awful and sometimes default to a sort of impressionistic water colour style. Not remotely comparable to pictures from my 9 year old Lumix LX3
About the IQ from the iPhone 5S I agree, but the newer phones from 6S and onward which can shoot in RAW and is supported in Lightroom Mobile camera, the quality is worlds apart from the 5S. The 1:1 view from the 7Plus using the Lightroom camera looks good, although not quite as sharp as my 5DSR, but still quite impressive for a phone.
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I have printed some iPhone photos and at 100% they look awful but in print hold up to A4-A3. A quality good enough for magazine covers as evidence has showed.
I look at it as a very different type of camera than my FF It can do things my FF cannot do and vice versa and you always have it with you and you get a phone + mobile computer extra.
Would like to see if the quality again has improved with the latest models.
One of my main problems is how to get the real quality of my photos published- Internet rules.
and also here- Bernard shows his 100MP files small, we have never seen the true quality of his photos; and to be honest at this small size i cannot see anything special, or it must be the look of a lens.
As mentioned I think the IQ from the 7Plus using Lightroom Mobile is pretty good and not awful at all.
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And yet we'll pay upwards of $4,000 for a camera and another $5,000 in lenses...when older generation cameras and lenses do just fine and can be purchased for 1/10 the price of new. Look at all the sheeple lining up to purchase the D850 when they already have very capable gear...just like the sheeple lining up for the latest iPhone even though they already have a phone.
No, some of us won't.
When I was actively running my photography business I bought whatever I needed and knew was going to extend my range and make my life both better and easier. I kept a couple of Hasselblads and always at least three Nikons and a battery of lenses for both systems. Back in the 60s/70s that cost a lot of money that makes the 5 grand (dollars) of today chicken feed. I always bought new for obvious business reasons.
Today, long retired, I use two digital Nikons - my old D200 as well as a D700. I have two af lenses and a few more that are manual.
As you mentioned later in your post, it makes no sense for me - today - to spend more when there is no return other than a few images for my website. Buying equipment was never something I did because I was a gearhead. I bought what I needed - and nothing more. I see no sound reason for changing my ways today.
Some believe that new, more costly cameras will make them new photographers. Instead, all the bigger 'n' better stuff will do for them is let them make exactly the same exciting/boring stuff they always made. It never is the camera that thinks. It's inert. If you have no vision, the best glasses in the world won't help you. That's the bitter pill many refuse to accept, constantly attempting to buy what isn't for sale.
Rob
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So I think the Iphone now costs more than the new replacement price of my K3. Admittedly, without a lens the Pentax is not so great for photos.
In the other direction, the Android phone I bought a couple of months back for 220-ish Euros also does "good enough" photos under many of the same conditions... and I feel about as motivated to swap the Android for an i-phone as the Pentax for a Nikon.
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Some believe that new, more costly cameras will make them new photographers. Instead, all the bigger 'n' better stuff will do for them is let them make exactly the same exciting/boring stuff they always made. It never is the camera that thinks. It's inert. If you have no vision, the best glasses in the world won't help you. That's the bitter pill many refuse to accept, constantly attempting to buy what isn't for sale.
What's new? ;)
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What's new? ;)
Yes and no.
The expansion of creativity should be considered from the angle of removing mental blocks along some of the multiple dimensions that photographers can play with.
New camera capabilities such as an orientable screen can help experiment and therefore improve.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I will be preordering my iPhone X as soon as preorders begin.
Hooray!
Regards,
Bud James
www.budjames.photography
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Now here's a minor question for phone camera enthusiasts - how do you carry your phone? Mine lives in my pocket (Apple 6SE, stays in an aftermarket waterproof nuud case), and the lens is always dusty. I try to clean it if I am going to be shooting with it, but it is not pristine most of the time. Do you phone camera fans use belt holsters, or what? Are you also faced with needing to clean the phone from fingerprints and dust?
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Nancy, I keep my phone in shirt and pants pockets, or resting on various surfaces, and make no particular effort to keep the lens clean. It stays pretty clean despite this. :) The phone has a red leather skin "case" that covers the back & sides…don't remember the maker (could be Apple). This shields the lens quite well despite its thinness. Every so often I'll notice a bit of whatever on the glass cover and will then swab it with a Q-Tip dipped in rubbing alcohol. Still no lens scratches after four years!
-Dave-
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Nancy, I keep my phone in shirt and pants pockets, or resting on various surfaces, and make no particular effort to keep the lens clean. It stays pretty clean despite this. :) The phone has a red leather skin "case" that covers the back & sides…don't remember the maker (could be Apple). This shields the lens quite well despite its thinness. Every so often I'll notice a bit of whatever on the glass cover and will then swab it with a Q-Tip dipped in rubbing alcohol. Still no lens scratches after four years!
-Dave-
Thank the grade of alcohol you're using; a light dab with some Gordon's Gin on a pristine napkin works wonders. (Only pre- the ice and tonic.)
Rob
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Thank the grade of alcohol you're using; a light dab with some Gordon's Gin on a pristine napkin works wonders. (Only pre- the ice and tonic.)
Still have some of The Glenrothes I bought last year in honor of Michael. :) (Though less than in the attached photo.) [Edit: I remembered last night, while treating myself to a "wee nip," that the bottle of The Glenrothes I currently have is a second one, having finished Michael's late last year.]
-Dave-
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So I think the Iphone now costs more than the new replacement price of my K3.
Photographic and video features are amongst the marketing points for high-end phones, but are far from everything that ones gets for the price. For one thing, recent testing suggests that the A11 processor in all this year's iPhone models is faster than many entry level laptop processors from just a few years ago. So maybe price comparisons should be smart-phone vs:
cheap basic laptop — for those whose personal use is mostly "communication": web browsing, email, photo-video viewing and minor tweaking, Skype or other video chat tools, simple note-taking and check lists with apps like Apple's Notes and Reminders or Microsoft's OneNote.
plus
basic compact camera — for those who just do snap shots and simple video clips.
plus
PDA (remember those?)
plus
basic mobile phone — one that just does phone calls and text messages (the cheapest part of the kit!)
I wonder if there will soon be a market for smart-phone docking solutions (wireless?) to replace low-end home computers: connect wirelessly to a large screen and full keyboard, along with cloud storage etc.
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I am impressed with the quality of lens cleaning fluid some people use! ;D
I just wipe off the phone lens at work, using the microscope cleaning fluid and lens paper. It doesn't much matter - back into the pocket - dusty in minutes. A local naturalist and amateur photographer did have a good phone tip. Get that bug's eye view (and the bug in the scene), because the phone lens axis can be just 1 cm from the ground surface.
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I don't use mobile phones often. I try to remember to put mine in my pocket for emergencies but I can go months without using it to make a call. The camera on mine is pretty poor though and I've been thinking about buying a new one just to get a better camera so I recently had a play with a family members new smartphone and it looks good... but it's so much bigger and heavier than my phone that I started to question if I want to carry something that big and heavy.
I didn't like moving to a smartphone when my old style mobile died, that old style non smartphone fitted in my trouser pocket but the smartphone needs to be in my jacket pocket and moving to a newer bigger again phone seems a step too far, I might as well carry a compact camera.
Don't people care that smartphones are now the size of a small tablet computer?
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iPhone 6SE is very capable, yet it is relatively small - 123.8 mm / 4.87 inches) by 58.6 mm / 2.31 inches
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Good small smart phones are an underserved market sector! Samsung has had some, but not offered in North America, and I think no longer updated. Apple has the smaller SE, but with lower specs than it could have, and past due for an update.
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One reason I've kept my 5s so long is its size. It's small. Fits in any pants/shirt/jacket pocket. The 8+ will take some getting used to in this respect, though my aging eyes will appreciate the larger display.
I don't even think of these things as "phones." They're pocket whiz-bang do-it-alls. Wherever I go (outside of my house) mine goes with me.
-Dave-
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One reason I've kept my 5s so long is its size. It's small. Fits in any pants/shirt/jacket pocket. The 8+ will take some getting used to in this respect . . .
I worried about that, but succumbed to a 6s, and at 138x67mm (5.44" x 2.64") it still fits easily in all my front pants pockets, and the iPhone 8 is essentially the same size. And weirdly the X is a bit smaller than the 8+ at 144x71mm, so would probably fit too. The worse problem is ergonomics: it is harder to reach all of the screen with my thumb without adjusting my grip, so I more often need to use two hands. And the ones that I see dangling more than half out of back pockets scare me.
. . . though my aging eyes will appreciate the larger display.
Yes, that's the other side of the quandary for me when considering phone size!
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Yes, there is a market out there for phones for people with small hands or small pockets. A year ago I decided that the iPhone 4 was elderly enough to retire, and got the best newish small phone, which was the 6SE. Many of my M.D. peers who can well afford to drop 800 bucks on a phone just happen to like their old 5/6SE - sized phones.
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Regarding the specific title of the thread.
This happened years ago. Pocket cameras are already pretty much dead and have been for years. Those that buy them do so because the phone in their camera isn't enough. Those buyers are few and far between, and while they may continue to decline, the trend is due to all camera phones getting better.
I own a camera store. We used to have two tables with 10 different models each on them. We stopped selling them 3 years ago.