Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Kees_1948 on June 16, 2017, 05:28:52 am
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Trying different papers on my new P800
Iford Fine Art Smooth, I oaded the profiie by Iford, and chose it in LR Print mode, in the right column. But when I try and set it in Print settings under Media Type, that paper doesn't show. Which of the showing papers do I chose.
My supplier suggests it needs MK, but the article by Mark Segal her in Lula https://luminous-landscape.com/whats-the-gold-standard-of-inkjet-papers/ suggests PK
THe article itself is a bit over my head. I don't make my own profiles, I prefer to chose one that is already available...
Same question for Gold Fibre Silk I have the profile, but it doesnt show as an option in Media Type
I seem toremember a recommedation for PPPL or UPPPS
Can anyone confirm that?
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For IGFS it's EPSG.
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:)
Thank you Jeff, printing it now....an A2 proofsheet of 12 images....
Or I thought I was, getting an error message that reads
"The paper source selected in the printer driver doesn't match the paper loaded in the printer. To print on paper, remove the DC/DVD tray and thwn close the front Manual Feed tray."
???
I selected Premium Semigloss in the printer, GPGFS as the color Management profile, (Which is the Ilford icc that was given to me by my supplier, who sold me both printer and Ilford paper) and Premium Semi Gloss as Media type.
What am I doing wrong here?
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IMHO, they are making it confusing, by requiring you put the media type in the control panel of the printer, as well as in the profile box under Color Management in Lightroom and also in the Lightroom Print settings. three times?
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I can't help with that, sorry. I don't use LR and print via Mirage.
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I will research Mirage, thank you
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Trying different papers on my new P800
Iford Fine Art Smooth, I oaded the profiie by Iford, and chose it in LR Print mode, in the right column. But when I try and set it in Print settings under Media Type, that paper doesn't show. Which of the showing papers do I chose.
My supplier suggests it needs MK, but the article by Mark Segal her in Lula https://luminous-landscape.com/whats-the-gold-standard-of-inkjet-papers/ suggests PK
THe article itself is a bit over my head. I don't make my own profiles, I prefer to chose one that is already available...
Same question for Gold Fibre Silk I have the profile, but it doesnt show as an option in Media Type
I seem toremember a recommedation for PPPL or UPPPS
Can anyone confirm that?
Over time, manufacturers can amend their recommendations for Media Type. The Media Type determines whether the printer should use MK or PK ink. The Media Type needs to be an Epson Media Type corresponding with the Epson Media Type the 3rd party paper manufacturer used for making the profile. In its latest information on their website, Ilford recommends keying their Fine Art Smooth paper to Epson Ultrasmooth Fine Art Paper. If I remember correctly, this paper uses MK ink, but it doesn't matter - with your P800, once you select the Media Type the printer will automatically select the correct ink.
The only Media Types you can select are Epson Media Types in the Epson driver, so all 3rd party papers are keyed to the closest Epson Media Type for their profiling.
In printing from LR, the ONLY place where you set the Media Type is in the printer driver, Printer Settings tab (if you are on Mac, the construct is a bit different on Windows, but the same idea: you set the Media Type in the driver, which you access through the Print panel in LR - the button on the lower left side of the Print panel, where you can set-up the driver correctly and Save those settings. Best is to save them as a new preset which you name anything you want allowing you to recognize what it is. (At the same time choose the speed and quality you want for the printing.) In LR, again in the LR Print panel, make sure you have selected application manages colour (not the printer), and then in the profile dropdown you select the Ilford profile for your Ilford FA Smooth paper (you may first need to load it into LR). Then DO NOT click Print - but click Printer, which again opens the driver - make sure the driver preset you created is the one showing. If it isn't select it, and then in that same dialog, click Print.
And you don't need to spend a bunch of money on Mirage or any other printing software to do this - printing from Lightroom works to a very high standard once you master these few easy steps for doing it correctly.
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When you download the icc profiles from Ilford’s website, it comes with a README Document that outlines the correct media types for each of it’s papers. For the fine art smooth paper the profile is named IGPFAS_EPSC800_USFAPn.icc This indicates that the media type to set in the driver is USFAP = Ultra Smooth Fine Art Paper, and should use MK ink.
Likewise, as has been mentioned previously Gold Fibre Silk uses a Premium Photo Paper Semigloss media type and PK ink.
Regarding your error message, when printing from Lightroom you don’t need to set any media types in your printer itself. The driver settings will override the printer settings anyways. The error message probably relates to where you have the paper loaded. Paper can be loaded in either the front “fine art” tray for thicker fine art media one sheet at a time, or in the regular top paper tray for thinner media. If there is a mismatch between where the printer senses the paper is loaded and where the driver is set to take paper from you will get the error message. And if you are loading fine art media from the front, make sure you push the tray back up after it is loaded.
There is a video in this site showing the basic usage of the P800 which you might find useful for watching here:
https://luminous-landscape.com/videos/back-to-the-print/epson-p800-printer/
Mike
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Thank you both for this useful additional information.
I reloaded my printer driver, watched the video, thought I folllowed all instructions.
I loaded an A4 sheet of GFS, through front loader, it loaded as per video
Chose Gold Fiber Silk, chose the GFS profile downloaded from Ilford, Chose media type PPPSG , went to the Printer button, then in the Printer Window checked my media type, correct , then pressed Print.
Error message.
See these three screen photos
Am I dumb?
What am i doing wrong?
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My speculation is that GFS paper may be too thin to use in the front feeder. I have always used the top feeder for Ilford GFS and similar papers, both in my old Epson 3800 and now in my P800. Try the top (stack) feeder and see if it works.
In fact I've never yet had occasion to use the front feeder for any of the papers have used.
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Thank you, I will try. I thought 310 gsm, 315 micron, pretty heavy...
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Bingo!
Thank you Eric.
Sometimes the solutions are so simple....
Took me four days...
Yes, a bit dumb, jumping to conclusions...
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I'm going to hypothesize that it worked in the top feeder because you had the top feeder set as the paper source previously... hence the error message.
You may run into similar problems in the future when you try other fine art papers that won't work well with the top loader.
When you want to print on a paper that is loaded in the front fine art manual feed, you need to specify in the driver (In Lightroom Print module click the Page Setup... button then the Paper Size drop down) a paper size that says FRONT FINE ART beside it. See attachment for my epson printer (in LR CC on a Mac) and page 111 of the p800 User Manual.
For what it's worth, I load Ilford GFS in the front fine art method all the time and have never had a problem.
Mike
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Thank you both for this useful additional information.
I reloaded my printer driver, watched the video, thought I folllowed all instructions.
I loaded an A4 sheet of GFS, through front loader, it loaded as per video
Chose Gold Fiber Silk, chose the GFS profile downloaded from Ilford, Chose media type PPPSG , went to the Printer button, then in the Printer Window checked my media type, correct , then pressed Print.
Error message.
See these three screen photos
Am I dumb?
What am i doing wrong?
No you are not dumb. This stuff can be confusing.
But you are doing something wrong.
Firstly - Eric - you can load GFS or any other such papers either through the FFA path or the top feed path. It doesn't matter as long as both the printer and the driver are in agreement about the chosen paper path. FFA is required for heavy paper to avoid damaging the printer. Anything from GFS lighter is usable in the top feed, which has the advantage of being easier to load.
Secondly, back to Kees - the point above is the key - assuring agreement between the printer and the driver on the paper path.
Thirdly - Mike - something about your version of the P800 driver and mine that don't cohere. I believe mine is the latest version for OSX. Epson has cleaned-up the paper path business between Page Set-up and the Printer settings in the driver.
Fourthly, back to you Kees - please have a look at my appended screen grabs using the current version of the Epson driver for the P800 on OSX. In Page set-up you select the paper size and whether it is sheet or roll, border or borderless. This example, sheet with borders. This menu has been reduced from previous driver versions, because the paper path is now specified in the Printer tab (except for Posterboard which is selected in Page Setup). In the printer tab you specify the Paper Source where here I have chosen Front Fine Art (and that means the paper really must be loaded from the FFA feed otherwise the mismatch error message will appear).
Fifthly, Kees, please note my settings underneath. I use Superphoto 2880 to assure highest quality from the printer (slower but better, they say). I keep High Speed OFF for the same reason, and keep Finest Detail OFF, because that is not useful for most normal photographs - it is more applicable to graphics and very high density images.
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Thirdly - Mike - something about your version of the P800 driver and mine that don't cohere. I believe mine is the latest version for OSX. Epson has cleaned-up the paper path business between Page Set-up and the Printer settings in the driver.
Fourthly, back to you Kees - please have a look at my appended screen grabs using the current version of the Epson driver for the P800 on OSX. In Page set-up you select the paper size and whether it is sheet or roll, border or borderless. This example, sheet with borders. This menu has been reduced from previous driver versions, because the paper path is now specified in the Printer tab (except for Posterboard which is selected in Page Setup). In the printer tab you specify the Paper Source where here I have chosen Front Fine Art
Mark,
I have a P800 and Mac running 10.10.5 but my driver interface is the "old" one, not the "cleaned up" version you showed. My driver version is 9.86. But strangely, Epson Software Updater says I'm current. On Epson's web site, they also list 9.86 as the current driver version, and say it supports OS from 10.7 thru 10.12. What OS version are you running, and what is your driver version number?
Brad
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Well, isn't this fun - mine also says Version 9.86, but I'm running El Capitan, which is OSX 10.11.6.So why should we have different driver interface for the same printer and ostensibly the same driver version? Perhaps it has to do with your OS being one version behind mine, but frankly, I don't understand why that should matter.
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Mark,
Oh well. Just one more example of the strange behavior of the hardware/system software/application software interactions.
Brad
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I'm also in OS X 10.10.5
I guess I'll have to upgrade before High Sierra to keep getting security updates
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In addition to what Schertz suggested at the top to read the README document for the paper you may also care to read the printer user guide. This actually tells you the thickness of paper acceptable in each feed. You can then Dymo it to the front of the machine. You could use a micrometer to measure it but you don't have to. Epson has already measured it and decided which papers fit in which feeds and they are the only options it gives you. Anything else will give an error.
I don't have this printer but the User Guide says there are TWO front feeds through the same slot. One with rear flap open and one closed. They have different thicknesses.
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In addition to what Schertz suggested at the top to read the README document for the paper you may also care to read the printer user guide. This actually tells you the thickness of paper acceptable in each feed. You can then Dymo it to the front of the machine. You could use a micrometer to measure it but you don't have to. Epson has already measured it and decided which papers fit in which feeds and they are the only options it gives you. Anything else will give an error.
I don't have this printer but the User Guide says there are TWO front feeds through the same slot. One with rear flap open and one closed. They have different thicknesses.
The front feed with the rear support closed is for flat throughput of posterboard, sheet-metal or any other similarly stiff heavy media that cannot be bent.
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I don't remember precisely where it is in the menus of the SC P800 (I no longer have it), but there is a place where you can turn off paper type settings "in the printer." Go do that. The printer will no longer fight the driver settings re which paper source, type, etc., that you've selected in the driver via access from Lightroom.
This drove me nuts for a while before i figured it out w/ my P800.
Rand
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Rand,
For the P800, in general the hierarchy is structured by default such that what one specifies in the driver menu on the computer over-rides the paper settings on the printer LCD. One can, for most purposes, ignore the paper settings on the LCD screen if you are printing from a computer.
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Rand,
For the P800, in general the hierarchy is structured by default such that what one specifies in the driver menu on the computer over-rides the paper settings on the printer LCD. One can, for most purposes, ignore the paper settings on the LCD screen if you are printing from a computer.
Mark,
All due respect for your expertise, but it just wasn't so on my P800. I'm wondering if there could be some difference with the Windows driver vs. printer settings as opposed to Apple.
Rand
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Mark,
All due respect for your expertise, but it just wasn't so on my P800. I'm wondering if there could be some difference with the Windows driver vs. printer settings as opposed to Apple.
Rand
Possibly, but I don't work with Windows so I don't know; what I do know is that I had a discussion of this issue for the P800 with a senior Epson staffer - in the context of the Epson driver for OSX - and what I suggested here was the advice I received at the time. It would appear from your experience that perhaps this advice was not universally portable.
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Possibly, but I don't work with Windows so I don't know; what I do know is that I had a discussion of this issue for the P800 with a senior Epson staffer - in the context of the Epson driver for OSX - and what I suggested here was the advice I received at the time. It would appear from your experience that perhaps this advice was not universally portable.
Mark,
Thanks for the feedback. I'm certainly not any kind of expert, more a typical end-user. But I can say with certainty that my SC P800 did all kinds of wrong paper feed choice, wrong paper type, various kinds of mismatches that really drove me nuts (never experienced on 1280, 2000, 2200, 4880, R3000, etc.) until I found and turned off the paper type monitor (or whatever the proper terminology is) in the 800's printer menu. After that, zero issues printing from LR.
Rand
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Mark,
Thanks for the feedback. I'm certainly not any kind of expert, more a typical end-user. But I can say with certainty that my SC P800 did all kinds of wrong paper feed choice, wrong paper type, various kinds of mismatches that really drove me nuts (never experienced on 1280, 2000, 2200, 4880, R3000, etc.) until I found and turned off the paper type monitor (or whatever the proper terminology is) in the 800's printer menu. After that, zero issues printing from LR.
Rand
Yes, I hear you Rand, and I have no issue believing what you say reflects the experience you had. I am only puzzled by it for two reasons: (i) I had this discussion with Epson twice over back in the days when I was testing and reviewing this printer about the relationship between the printer LCD settings and the computer-based driver settings and twice over they assured me I could safely ignore the LCD and just focus on the driver using my computer, so I did that. It stays forever on 13*19 inch Premium Luster and I don't even think of it. (ii) You can peruse on this website how many different kinds of papers I've tested with that printer between December 2015 and this year, including odd-ball stuff like Breathing Color Aluminium sheets. I have carried on using the printer exactly as Epson advised in (i) and I have been getting excellent results from rigorous custom profiling verification. So I have to say I'm mystified by the apparently huge difference between your experience and mine; could be there is something I'm not understanding, bit that wouldn't be a first! -:).
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Two days on, and the fog is beginning to lift, thank you all. I learned a lot in a short time, and should be back in the groove again now.
I suppose it was good to have made some mistakes in he beginning, because it forced me to look at things and also generated this discussion.
The silly thing is, I have used the 3850 and the 4900 for years, and the issues of what feed is used and borderless or not also need to be addressed there. I should have looked at that. But for the past two or three years have exclusively used Enhanced Matt and Velvet, because they suited my subject, which means never changing ink and also using only one entry port.
I think I got it sorted now I even used a box of very old Canon FA-ME1, a Hahnemulle produced Museum Etching, 350 gsm, which I loaded from the front, choosing Legacy Etching as profile and as Media type, and it came out fine!
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I have quite a bit of stoc left in A2 Epson Enhanced matte, but my ist of choices in the profile list doesn't give me that option.
Any suggestions which option to choose?
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I have quite a bit of stoc left in A2 Epson Enhanced matte, but my ist of choices in the profile list doesn't give me that option.
Any suggestions which option to choose?
It's not called Enhanced Matte any longer. The most recent name is Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte, or UPPM. If you find that in your profile list you should be OK.