Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: jlamont on May 25, 2017, 09:14:02 am
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I am considering the purchase of an Epson 9000 for my business and need to have answers to various maintenance issues before deciding. I have been very satisfied during my six years with an Epson 7900, though at times I have been concerned by the news of random head (piezo electric?) failures in this class of printers. Based on this experience my most pressing question is:
* How do I change the wiper blade that cleans the head?
Please note that I said "I"; I really do not want to have to bring in tech support for such a simple and relatively frequent job. During the six years with my Epson 7900, for example, I have had to change the wiper blade at least four times, each time a five minute job using a $25 part. A near certain diagnostic for when the wiper (very soft rubber) needs replacing is random, sporadic ink spattering.
Epson Canada does not appear to want to tell me this information. All I know at this time is that I cannot use precisely the same method as for my 7900, since the 9000 does not appear to have the same interface that lets me move the print head away from the wiper with the 7900.
Many thanks.
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The silence is deafening!
I am surprised. I believe there are a number of you who have one of the new Epson widebed printers, either 24" or 44". How are you planning to maintain them? What do you plan to do, for example, when the wiper blade of your machine needs changing? Maybe I'm missing something here?
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Yes, you are missing how relatively quiet this forum is. There are only a handful of posts each day. I am sure someone will provide some insights eventually.
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I imagine that most people who have spent 5 figures on a new printer will follow the user guide and not attempt to touch parts that are not designed for end-user maintenance.
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I ran a 9900 for several years, pulled the wiper on several occasions, and it didn't even need cleaned, let alone replaced.
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Interesting opinion, Farmer. I hope not everyone shares it and will be willing to share their secrets for managing their new printer longterm. Here's why I think that is a reasonable hope (despite what I take, perhaps mistakenly, to be the tone of your reply):
1. Your pricing for these printers is a trifle exaggerated. Vistek is currently selling these machines for $3599 CDN (P7000) and $5649 CDN (P9000). This is low-to-mid four figures, not "five" as you state. It is comparable to the prices I paid for my Nikon D810 and D2Xs. I have always semi-regularly cleaned my own camera sensors despite the fact that Nikon does not intend me to do this and cleaning this way takes a camera out of warranty. I further believe that I am not alone in doing this. Changing the wiper blade is comparable to cleaning a camera sensor, perhaps even easier and certainly less risky.
2. I believe many people have changed their own wiper blades with the 7900. There was (is) a famous thread on this very website in which many people discussed doing their own maintenance; one of the extraordinarily helpful people in this thread, Eric, even created a video showing how to change the wiper blade. And the point is, changing the wiper blade is not like doing head replacement surgery; it is a fast, easy, and low risk maintenance task.
3. Having Epson change a wiper blade for me is going to cost several hundred dollars and perhaps more importantly take my printer offline for at least several days. This for a five minute, low risk task using a $25 part if I do it. I would prefer not to incur these costs in time and money. Again this is like my decision to do my own sensor cleaning with my camera; I could send it away to Nikon for them to do it, but at a cost. As someone who depends on my printer to work properly every day, having to shut down the printer and wait an uncertain amount of time for Epson to come out is something I would prefer to avoid.
4. The widebed print people whose operational methodologies I have observed in the past always did their own basic maintenance; not necessarily the complicated or risky stuff, but always the simple, low risk, high impact stuff. Admittedly I have not known a lot of such "professionals" but I respected them for keeping a high quality operation going. Again this is like many dedicated camera owners who do their own sensor cleaning rather than send it away and wait idly while someone else to does it.
Please note that I am not saying you are wrong to prefer to have Epson change your wiper blade and other basic maintenance tasks. I am only saying that it is perfectly reasonable to have a different opinion. I will also be surprised if your opinion represents the majority in this forum, given the previous willingness of many 7900 owners to do such things, as I have described above.
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Sounds like you were one of the lucky ones, Wayne. Of course it is a statistical thing. The likelihood of needing to change the wiper may also increase somewhat as the printer ages so it may be you avoided the problem by only running your machine for several years. This observation also applies to the various other maintenance tasks. One of the very few things an Epson rep very reluctantly told me is that there are maintenance requirements for the new printers measured in at most a couple of years, just like with the previous generations of printer. I and many people I suspect would like a five to seven year operational life, which essentially guarantees that you are going to be into a variety of maintenance issues if you keep your machine running long enough. (Please note this is not a criticism of the machines; this is a fact with any industrial grade machine I have ever heard of.)
So I take it your plan is simply to let Epson come in, if/when required? Even for the "simple" things. No worries.
Do you plan to do any (regular) maintenance?
Do you know the maintenance schedules for the various components in the new printers? Such knowledge might let us bring in Epson before a problem occurs rather than after; preventative maintenance is a proven strategy but we need to know what the maintenance schedules are if we are to enact such a programme.
I believe I saw sometime back a statement in a bootlegged manual on the web for these machines that their wipers should be replaced every year, for example. Though I cannot now find this reference again, if you have ever seen how soft and apparently fragile the wiper is on these machines, you like me might believe it could need this sort of periodic replacement. (Heck, we periodically replace the much tougher looking windshield wipers on our cars. "Rubber" hardens and suffers damage over time.) I have never heard of any machine, especially industrial grade machines, that did not benefit from regular maintenance.
As I describe in my reply to Farmer above, many owners of the previous generation of printers, the x900s, clearly felt the need to be able to do certain basic maintenance tasks despite your very fortunate experience. Why should there be any difference now?
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The recommended wiper blade change interval is once per year on the 79/99** series. Not doing so doesn't necessarily mean you will encounter more issues with your printer, as Wayne's experience bears out. But in the spirit of an abundance of anal-retentiveness and frugality, when I had the 9900, I inspected the wiper blade every 4-6 months and cleaned it gently with a swabbit and warm water and also changed the wiper blade yearly. It is easy basic maintenance that a user can accomplish without any fret at all. I rarely if ever had problems with my old 9900. I suspect that the expected life of these "pro" wide format printers is typically 3-5 years, amazingly the period after which warranties expire ::). After that period, it really becomes a bit of russian roulette to determine the cause when/if a printer has problems, whether it is the head, capping station, dampers, pumps, etc. The typical service call will be to make an educated guess and start with the least expensive repair/replacement part and then move on to the next if that doesn't fix-it. The printer may be big, but there really are quite few vital parts to replace, albeit at a heavy hit to the pocketbook. Similar to a car blowing blue smoke out of the exhaust, sometimes it's best to just get a new vehicle.
I assume the maintenance interval on the wiper blade on the P9000 (P series) is the same, and I do believe I have read that the procedure to replace the wiper is much the same as the 79/99** series as well. I have had ZERO issues with my P9000 and it actually seems better than the previous generation printers in terms of usage and nozzle checks. (recently back from a workshop in UT---gone over two weeks, printer nozzle check did not show even a single tiny line missing, perfect!). The P9000 is a much better printer than the previous generation.
I think the previous common sense maintenance thoughts still make sense: monitor humidity levels, keep the area around the printer and deck clean (vacuum), print frequently, and change/clean the wiper blade periodically. Imho, if your printer is five years or older, it is on borrowed time. Kudos to you if your printer lasts that long or longer!
Ken
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Thank you, Ken. Very helpful. Your information on the recommended change interval is consistent with my experience, and suggests many of us will face this issue one way or the other.
One difficulty though: the procedure to change the wiper on the new machines cannot be exactly the same as for the x900 series because there does not seem to be a way I can access to move the print head out of the way. I have tried with a demo model. In my 7900 I did this by going into Service Mode and then entering the right commands. Although the new machines have what is called "Service Mode", this is not the same as the x900 Service Mode and does not appear to let me move the head out of the way to do wiper changes, nor many other things the old "Service Mode" allowed. Furthermore, I would need a part number and source for wipers for the new machine. Do you have any information about either how to move the head away to get access to the wiper and/or how I might buy the actual part. Thanks again.
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We service Epson printers at my shop and my partner has full access to all of Epson's documentation, procedures and service software. We've also built up a pretty good relationship with Epson service over the years (not the provider but with Epson themselves.). I'll see if he can dig up the information on the wiper assembly as far as recommended replacement as well as procedures for the px000 series printers.
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Thanks, Wayne. That would be enormously helpful. Would you also sell me replacement wiper blades, in the event I need them?
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Interesting opinion, Farmer. I hope not everyone shares it and will be willing to share their secrets for managing their new printer longterm. Here's why I think that is a reasonable hope (despite what I take, perhaps mistakenly, to be the tone of your reply):
1. Your pricing for these printers is a trifle exaggerated. Vistek is currently selling these machines for $3599 CDN (P7000) and $5649 CDN (P9000). This is low-to-mid four figures, not "five" as you state. It is comparable to the prices I paid for my Nikon D810 and D2Xs. I have always semi-regularly cleaned my own camera sensors despite the fact that Nikon does not intend me to do this and cleaning this way takes a camera out of warranty. I further believe that I am not alone in doing this. Changing the wiper blade is comparable to cleaning a camera sensor, perhaps even easier and certainly less risky.
2. I believe many people have changed their own wiper blades with the 7900. There was (is) a famous thread on this very website in which many people discussed doing their own maintenance; one of the extraordinarily helpful people in this thread, Eric, even created a video showing how to change the wiper blade. And the point is, changing the wiper blade is not like doing head replacement surgery; it is a fast, easy, and low risk maintenance task.
3. Having Epson change a wiper blade for me is going to cost several hundred dollars and perhaps more importantly take my printer offline for at least several days. This for a five minute, low risk task using a $25 part if I do it. I would prefer not to incur these costs in time and money. Again this is like my decision to do my own sensor cleaning with my camera; I could send it away to Nikon for them to do it, but at a cost. As someone who depends on my printer to work properly every day, having to shut down the printer and wait an uncertain amount of time for Epson to come out is something I would prefer to avoid.
4. The widebed print people whose operational methodologies I have observed in the past always did their own basic maintenance; not necessarily the complicated or risky stuff, but always the simple, low risk, high impact stuff. Admittedly I have not known a lot of such "professionals" but I respected them for keeping a high quality operation going. Again this is like many dedicated camera owners who do their own sensor cleaning rather than send it away and wait idly while someone else to does it.
Please note that I am not saying you are wrong to prefer to have Epson change your wiper blade and other basic maintenance tasks. I am only saying that it is perfectly reasonable to have a different opinion. I will also be surprised if your opinion represents the majority in this forum, given the previous willingness of many 7900 owners to do such things, as I have described above.
No intended tone, just a factual statement. You're looking for information, so I was looking to present some and to let you draw your own conclusions based on the sum of all the information you collect. That's still my intent, not tone :-)
Most people who post here aren't even vaguely close to most people who use the machines. It's ever the case on the net, and the majority of people who bother to post are those who have had issues, so the sample group is generally poor as a representation of the wider user base.
1. We're not all North American, and most people invest in a system, rather than just a single printer, and I was a little broad in my comment as I was thinking of the wider range of products across various ink technologies as well, which did take us off the path a bit. Even at mid to high 4 figures with a total system investment, doing something (particularly during the warranty period) which you are not trained to do, do not have the specific tools and utilities to do, is not something for everyone. The new machines, too, have new heads, so a direct comparison to the *900 series may not be applicable. You've already noted that you can't just move the head out in the same way. I simply suggest caution and consider the real value to the business of a few hundred dollars to have a tech preventatively maintain your unit, compared to the risk of doing it yourself. You might be a very well trained technician, but most people aren't. Also, if it's done preventatively, there's little reason your machine should be down for more than an hour or so.
2. Many people have, but most don't. The choice is yours. Some people do their own plumbing or service their own cars. Most businesses, though, engage other professionals to do that work and instead focus on their core competencies to generate revenue. If a professional that you engage gets it wrong, you have recourse to them and not so much if you get it wrong. If you're a hobbyist, of course that might change the balance.
3. I think there's a misconception when you compare a wiper blade with a sensor cleaning. There are levels of sensor cleaning. The automated, the manually invoked but camera performed, and then physically doing it yourself. The functionality is in the camera to gain access to do it and it's designed for it to be done. In the case of the wiper blade, you're talking about replacing part of the cleaning mechanism, and you're missing the complete package, as it were. That might be enough, which is great. Again, the cost, I've already discussed that so I won't labour the point nor about the downtime. I will say I understand your need to have it working every day, which to me says it's a critical piece of capital in your business and that's why I find it difficult to understand why you wouldn't make a small outlay to have a professional keep it at its peak, but if you've done your sums then only you can make that decision.
4. Yes and no. Do you mean solvent and dye sub? Sure. Dye sub mostly because they were bastardising machines to run the inks so they couldn't get manufacturer support and solvent because that was more akin to the big metal type press guys in the sense of who and how they were operating the machines. When you move over to graphics, photo, proofing, CAD and that sort of thing, very few do their own maintenance. Solvent is also changing as the units become more mainstream and wider in application, and even dye sub in some instances as more manufacturing support appears.
So, yeah, more opinion above but in response to your thoughts and points. It's just information for you to use to make your final decision, but again, the reason you're not seeing a lot of people comment here about these units I believe is because most of them are not doing this themselves.
However you go, I hope it works out and you get great use out of your machine :-)
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. . . Do you have any information about either how to move the head away to get access to the wiper and/or how I might buy the actual part. Thanks again.
Go into Service Mode
Choose "Mecha Adjustment"
Choose "PG Adj." - The display will read "Un Cap"
Push the "OK" button
This will release the head off of the capping station and allow you to gently move it to the left out of the way.
Power off the printer.
Replace wiper, clean flushing box, clean capping station, etc. as needed.
Ensure there are no obstructions inside the printer carriage area (left over swabs etc.)
Close front lid, power on.
The head will seek to the home position and then the printer will startup as usual.
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I have not had to replace the wiper blade in my 9890 in 5 years of use . It's still in great condition. The reason is I clean it with a cotton lint free glove and distilled after every printing session. I also dampen the cap station at the same time to keep it from drying out and loosing its shape. Compared to my thermal head printers these Epson wiper blades are flimsy and cheap as is the dinky little capping station. But with this kind of maintenance they can possibly last the life of the printer.
Go into Service Mode
Choose "Mecha Adjustment"
Choose "PG Adj." - The display will read "Un Cap"
Push the "OK" button
This will release the head off of the capping station and allow you to gently move it to the left out of the way.
Power off the printer.
Replace wiper, clean flushing box, clean capping station, etc. as needed.
Ensure there are no obstructions inside the printer carriage area (left over swabs etc.)
Close front lid, power on.
The head will seek to the home position and then the printer will startup as usual.
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Thanks, Datro, however I think you have specified the method for printers other than the new 7000/9000 ones. What you describe is how I do it with my 7900. However, I do not know how to get into a true "Service Mode" with the 7000/9000 series. What these machines call "Service Mode", visible in the LCD menu for all to see, does not appear to have the capabilities that the "Service Mode" with my 7900 has, and specifically I did not see what you are describing when I looked at a demo machine a while back. Am I missing something here? I think we need to know how to put these new machines into a "true" Service Mode.
Thanks again.
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Thanks, Dean. I agree that cleaning the wiper blade goes a long while to ensure the wiper's longevity. However, the problem is that even cleaning the wiper requires that we move the print head away from the wiper via a true Service Mode. What is called "Service Mode" in the generally visible menu of these machines does not appear to me to give us this capability.
Do you know how to put these new printers into a true Service Mode, as we could with the previous generations of printers?
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Hi Wayne,
Do you know when you might be able to let me have the information you were going to go looking for, about how to replace the wiper blade and maintenance schedules for the SureColor 7000/9000 printers? I am under some time pressure to make some key decisions for which this information would be very useful.
Thanks again.
Best wishes,
Jim
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No it doesn't. You simply turn the printer off, turn it back on and while it boots up the head moves back and forth charging the head and you simply open the front cover, move the head to the left side, pick up a flash light, look on the right side, and clean it and the cheap little capping station. It's a no brainer. The other way is just to insert a sheet of plain paper and start doing a nozzle check procedure
when the head moves out, open the cover.
Thanks, Dean. I agree that cleaning the wiper blade goes a long while to ensure the wiper's longevity. However, the problem is that even cleaning the wiper requires that we move the print head away from the wiper via a true Service Mode. What is called "Service Mode" in the generally visible menu of these machines does not appear to me to give us this capability.
Do you know how to put these new printers into a true Service Mode, as we could with the previous generations of printers?
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Thanks, Datro, however I think you have specified the method for printers other than the new 7000/9000 ones. What you describe is how I do it with my 7900. However, I do not know how to get into a true "Service Mode" with the 7000/9000 series. What these machines call "Service Mode", visible in the LCD menu for all to see, does not appear to have the capabilities that the "Service Mode" with my 7900 has, and specifically I did not see what you are describing when I looked at a demo machine a while back. Am I missing something here? I think we need to know how to put these new machines into a "true" Service Mode.
Thanks again.
The steps I outlined above are for the P9000. I have both the 7900 and the P9000 here in my studio.
Yes, the Service Mode menu is very different between the two printers, however the way to get there is the same on both series of printers. If you know how to get into Service Mode on a 7900 then you know how to get there on a P9000. Once in Service Mode on a P9000, you will see only a very small set of options (compared to the older printers). There is no longer a "Wiper Exchange" menu, however the "PG Adj." and "Un Cap" does exactly the same thing: it releases the carriage and allows it to be carefully moved out of the way.
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Thanks, Datro! Tomorrow I will try the method you outline. Very much appreciated!
Just one further question for you then: Is the wiper blade I purchase for the 7900 the same as the one I need for the 9000? If not, do you know where I can get a 9000 wiper?
Again, thank you. If I can find a way to get the proper wiper blade for these machines I think my last major hurdle to purchase has just been removed by you.
p.s., I'm thinking there must still be another, true Service Mode on the 9000 for the technicians to use, since the one visible does not appear to allow all that they would require. But it sounds like that is not my concern, as I don't intend to do "head surgery" on my machine.
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Hello Datro,
So I tried the method you described and things did not go as expected:
1. When I moved the head away, I could not see the wiper blade assembly, at least not like I do with the 7900. I could see the capping station, and below it a wide, white strip of material that looked like course fabric. I have attached a picture. To repeat, I did not see a wiper blade assembly. Could you direct me to what I should be seeing for the wiper.
2. When I closed the front lid and tried to power on, nothing happened. The printer did not respond to the power button, nor to the OK button. Nothing.
To recover the machine, we pulled the power plug and then re-plugged and powered on.
That seemed to work but it gave us, briefly, a terrifying message about total system malfunction and the need to call Epson Service. This message stayed on the screen only briefly during startup, but…
I went through the procedure you outlined three times, each time with the same results as noted above.
Could you advise me further on how to proceed?
Thanks.
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Sorry for the delayed reply...I've been on the road. Please understand I'm a user just like you wanting to make sure I can maintain my machines. I've done a fair amount of repair work on my 7900 and I'm familiar with its internal mechanics. I'd like to be clear about the following:
DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the procedure you are asking about in this thread is NOT a EPSON-supported procedure. Depending on the sequence you use (powering down, opening lid while head is moving, etc.), you may see error messages generated by the printer firmware. This is to be expected. You are completely on your own. If you are not comfortable with doing this kind of procedure or fully understand how the mechanism works, I recommend that you simply do not attempt it.
The reason you don't see the wiper or flushing box is that it is hidden up in the cap assembly. To access it, you have to gently pull it down, then push it back up when you are finished. AGAIN, if you aren't familiar with how this mechanism works it's best not to mess with it.
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Thank you, Datro. Yes, I completely understand and agree with your disclaimer. I very much appreciate your assistance and do not hold you responsible for what I choose to do with it.
I would like to clarify what you said if I might. You said, pull "it" down. By "it" you are referring to the capping station, correct? I should gently pull the capping station down to reveal the flushing box and wiper blade assembly (as I can see them in my 7900)?
Also does the wiper blade appear to be the same as for the 7900 or do I need to find a source for 9000 series wiper blades, should I ever want to replace the wiper?
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Watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8NkgKw7mDw) to understand more about the mechanism.
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Thanks, Datro.
Was able to take out the wiper blade and examine it. It is not the same as on the 7900: though overall the assembly seems to be about the same size, the rubber wiper itself is a totally different design and construction.
So, do you know where we can purchase the new wiper assembly?
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Thanks, Datro.
Was able to take out the wiper blade and examine it. It is not the same as on the 7900: though overall the assembly seems to be about the same size, the rubber wiper itself is a totally different design and construction.
So, do you know where we can purchase the new wiper assembly?
Hello,
Having owned and operated an SP9900 for 6+ years I am very familiar with the Wiper Blade cleaning/replacement procedure, as well as cleaning the capping station and flushing box. I have since moved my business to my home and will be downsizing to a P7000, after selling the 9900 to a fellow in Toronto, close to my former business location. After the first year using the 9900 I extended the warranty for another year and also a third year after that. I considered it an insurance policy that helped me sleep at night without worrying about the centre of my business, the printer(s). If you are using your P9000 for any sort of business activity I would strongly suggest extending the warranty for as long as possible(max 3 years). I would also suggest that you not do any of the "maintenance" procedures you have discussed here while under warranty, since said warranty could be voided if a service tech were called in at some point. As far as purchasing the wiper blade is concerned, I might have a source if you live in Canada. I have just been in touch with a tech I know, about that possibility for myself as well. I'll let you know what I find.
And one more thing - In all of the years I have been accessing and cleaning/replacing the wiper blade as well as the cap assembly/flushing box, I have never powered down when working in that area. I do understand the possible reason for doing so, in case one might accidentally contact the OK button while the assembly(s) are out of place, but that has never been an issue with me, since I always take care to cover that area of the panel to prevent such "accidents". By not shutting down while performing these procedures you only have to close the cover when finished and the head will locate its parking position, and NO heart-stopping messages to deal with.
Gary
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Just me again,
I had a reply from my printer tech contact. He told me that although some of the part numbers have been changed on the Px000 series, the parts are basically interchangeable in some cases. I was interested because when I sold my 9900 I kept two new wiper blades that he had told me would work in the P7000 as well. He also mentioned that the print head in the new printers can be used in the older printers and the older print heads can be used in the newer printers, and that the improvements were made for reliability. Of course he would be hard pressed to put an older print head in a newer series printer, since he was only referring to the actual compatibility issue. He assured me that the older wiper blades would also work in the Px000 series printers, although if necessary I would probably opt for the newer version if possible.
Gary
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Hello Garnick,
Thank you for your posts.
1. I would very much appreciate your telling me your source here in Canada for P9000 / P7000 wiper blades.
I am surprised that he said the x9000 wipers can be used at all; they look quite different.
Anyway, yes, please tell me your Canadian source (or send it to my e-mail if you wish: jmlamont@magma.ca)
2. I agree that an extended warranty period can be useful and worthwhile. However, I believe from reading the warranty document carefully that maintenance activities are specifically EXCLUDED. Many printers have been doing wiper blade replacement and other easy routine maintenance activities on the previous generations of Epsons or at least want to have that ability even if they choose most times to bring in Epson and pay the cost in down-time and money. (It is similar to cleaning your camera sensor yourself; it is not covered by warranty, but many consider it a risk worth taking.) Incidentally, do you know the maintenance schedules for the various components of the P7000 / P9000? If we are to bring in Epson to do the routine maintenance, it is essential that we know these.
3. I agree that we do not want to power down the printer while doing these activities. However, the P9000 does not have the same menu interface as the 9900 and specifically does not have the explicit wiper replacement capability. So, as Datro has outlined above, other methods must be used. If someone in the group knows the "official service tech" method it would be very nice if they shared it here. Thus far none of the other experienced members of this group have done so. Nor has anyone yet come forward with the official, Epson maintenance schedules for the various components of these new machines. Without these schedules, how does anyone know when to schedule Epson to come in and do routine maintenance?
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Hello Garnick,
Thank you for your posts.
1. I would very much appreciate your telling me your source here in Canada for P9000 / P7000 wiper blades.
I am surprised that he said the x9000 wipers can be used at all; they look quite different.
Anyway, yes, please tell me your Canadian source (or send it to my e-mail if you wish: jmlamont@magma.ca)
2. I agree that an extended warranty period can be useful and worthwhile. However, I believe from reading the warranty document carefully that maintenance activities are specifically EXCLUDED. Many printers have been doing wiper blade replacement and other easy routine maintenance activities on the previous generations of Epsons or at least want to have that ability even if they choose most times to bring in Epson and pay the cost in down-time and money. (It is similar to cleaning your camera sensor yourself; it is not covered by warranty, but many consider it a risk worth taking.) Incidentally, do you know the maintenance schedules for the various components of the P7000 / P9000? If we are to bring in Epson to do the routine maintenance, it is essential that we know these.
3. I agree that we do not want to power down the printer while doing these activities. However, the P9000 does not have the same menu interface as the 9900 and specifically does not have the explicit wiper replacement capability. So, as Datro has outlined above, other methods must be used. If someone in the group knows the "official service tech" method it would be very nice if they shared it here. Thus far none of the other experienced members of this group have done so. Nor has anyone yet come forward with the official, Epson maintenance schedules for the various components of these new machines. Without these schedules, how does anyone know when to schedule Epson to come in and do routine maintenance?
Hello again,
RE: 1. "I am surprised that he said the x9000 wipers can be used at all; they look quite different". He didn't say the wiper blade was the same, he said the Wiper Assembly was interchangeable. In other words, if you choose to do so you could use an older Wiper Assembly in a newer machine and vice versa. I apologize for my lack of clarity on that issue. I believe I also mentioned that I would not put an older version of the wiper assembly(blade) in a newer printer, even though it would work. Probably not as efficient as the newer version.
2. Since I don't yet have the P7000 I haven't of course read the warranty documentation. By "EXCLUDED", do you interpret that as the warranty would be voided if the owner had previously carried out certain maintenance procedures themselves? I would imagine not, since otherwise it would seem to imply that the warranty would also cover scheduled maintenance calls. Not likely I would think.
3. I will question my techie contact on that matter and pass it along when I have that info. He is pretty open about selling certain parts, but I will have to get his permission to forward his name and contact info before I do so. I have done that once before after I had secured his permission, so I suspect he will be OK this time, but I will not jeopardize my contact without checking in. I imagine the official Epson Field Repair manual will be available soon, probably from https://www.2manuals.com.
Gary
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Oh man, I am so glad that I'll never have to buy one of these Epsons ever again. What a waste of time and energy. Everyone thought after all that mess of the last series they were going to completely revamp their head - pressure-cap assembly design. Just didn't happen.
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Hi Deanwork,
I'm sure you don't mean to hijack this thread but I would prefer that everyone here stay focussed on the maintenance issues I've raised. I would ask everyone to open a new topic if you want to discuss or compare the maintenance issues of the three manufacturers. (This might well be a very worthwhile discussion that I have not seen elsewhere; I just ask everyone not to do it in this thread because I fear it will make it even more difficult to get answers to the questions I have raised.)
All large format printers, indeed all industrial grade machines, require maintenance to operate at their best. I am merely trying to find out how I should do that. HP's and Canon's have their maintenance issues too, I'm sure.
Many thanks in advance.
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Hi Deanwork,
I'm sure you don't mean to hijack this thread but I would prefer that everyone here stay focussed on the maintenance issues I've raised. I would ask everyone to open a new topic if you want to discuss or compare the maintenance issues of the three manufacturers. (This might well be a very worthwhile discussion that I have not seen elsewhere; I just ask everyone not to do it in this thread because I fear it will make it even more difficult to get answers to the questions I have raised.)
All large format printers, indeed all industrial grade machines, require maintenance to operate at their best. I am merely trying to find out how I should do that. HP's and Canon's have their maintenance issues too, I'm sure.
Many thanks in advance.
John has been a long time member of this forum and I've often communicated with him(on forum) concerning various issues etc. However, in this case I agree that a negative reply to this thread offers absolutely no positive information of any sort. Nuff said.
Even though I no longer have the 9900, I still have the information I used concerning the use of the Service Mode for cleaning/replacing the Wiper Blade or the complete assembly. Initially I was using the "Wiper Exchange" menu, but then found that the Temporary PG menu seemed to be more efficient, another pointer from my techie contact. I understand that the Temp PG menu on the P series printers might not have exactly that same capabilities as on the SP79/9900 machines. On the 9900 in Temp PG mode, once I had gently pushed the Flushing Box/Wiper assembly back up into place it was simply a matter of closing the cover, after which the carriage would move back to the Capping Station. No shutdown necessary at all. It would seem that this is not the case with the SC P series printers.
Gary
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Thanks, Garnick.
Re:1. Yes, I understand the distinction you are making and I agree that I do not want to use the wiper assemblies that were not designed for the new machines. I think that means that both of us may need to have a source for the new wiper blades/assemblies if we buy one of the P7000 or P9000 machines. I am having great difficulty in finding a source, and perhaps the equivalent difficulty in finding a non-heart-stopping way to change the wiper blades/assemblies. So anything you or anyone else here in the group can do to assist me in finding this information would be really appreciated. I should note that I very much appreciate the information I have received, from Datro and others, just so I am not misunderstood here. It's just not quite all there yet.
Re:2. Regarding the warranty information: I have only looked fairly quickly at the warranty document for the P9000, and I am not a lawyer. That said, I think it is clear that their warranty covers equipment failures, not maintenance, in general. (Despite the fact that several maintenance procedures should likely be done in the three year period that one gets total after adding the 2-year extension to the basic 1-year warranty.) That is, they will not come out and do routine maintenance on your machine as part of their (extended) warranty program. I have been told verbally that if the owner while doing maintenance such as wiper blade replacement damages the machine, that damage would not be covered under their warranty. That's fair, I think. But it leaves owners with the need to know what the official maintenance schedule is for the various components. Epson has it; so do Epson reps. But so far no one will copy me the official Epson references on this. More information that I have been trying to get here and would really appreciate someone passing on my way.
3. Thank you for checking with your technical contact. I completely understand, and share, your concern not to jeopardize anyone in this endeavour. I have been searching the source you reference and any others that are brought to my attention. So far no joy. My impression is that there is a much greater effort to suppress the public dissemination of such information, but I could be wrong there. In any event, my purchase decision can't wait and I really (really!) don't feel comfortable going forward without at least the basic information I have been seeking here.
Thanks again.
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Hi Garnick,
It is the "Wiper Exchange" menu item that is no longer there with the P9000. I was able to do everything you describe, and indeed when I closed the cover the carriage appeared to move back to the Capping Station. However, I could not then do anything further by the menu: hitting the power button to turn the printer back on did not work, nor anything else. Perhaps the problem lies in my turning the machine off immediately after I uncapped the head. That was what I understood I was supposed to do, and I am always nervous opening the cover with a "live" machine. But since I subsequently could never turn the printer back on (and had to pull the plug, re-plug, and then power on) maybe that's the root cause of the problem. It would be nice to have the exact instructions the Epson service techs must have.
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I'm sorry. I totally understand . My sarcasm about this new series was not useful or helpful to your situation. You might do a google search to see if there are any tech manuals available online. We used to find them fairly easily and they helped to understand how to work on things. There is an Epson Large Format list online and a guy named Mark Savoia is the moderator and he might be able to help you. I'll see if I can find the link to it.
John
Hi Deanwork,
I'm sure you don't mean to hijack this thread but I would prefer that everyone here stay focussed on the maintenance issues I've raised. I would ask everyone to open a new topic if you want to discuss or compare the maintenance issues of the three manufacturers. (This might well be a very worthwhile discussion that I have not seen elsewhere; I just ask everyone not to do it in this thread because I fear it will make it even more difficult to get answers to the questions I have raised.)
All large format printers, indeed all industrial grade machines, require maintenance to operate at their best. I am merely trying to find out how I should do that. HP's and Canon's have their maintenance issues too, I'm sure.
Many thanks in advance.
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https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat/topics
They have 6000 members now and deal with similar issues regularly.
I'm sorry. I totally understand . My sarcasm about this new series was not useful or helpful to your situation. You might do a google search to see if there are any tech manuals available online. We used to find them fairly easily and they helped to understand how to work on things. There is an Epson Large Format list online and a guy named Mark Savoia is the moderator and he might be able to help you. I'll see if I can find the link to it.
John
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https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat/topics
They have 6000 members now and deal with similar issues regularly.
Hi John,
Thank you, this more like the John I remember. I can't be sure about this, but I think you might have been a member of the EWF forum quite a few years ago when it was a Yahoo sponsored Group. We have shared information here on LuLa, and I seem to recall communicating on EWF as well many moons ago, but of course I could be mistaken. I hadn't visited that forum for a long time and then found it again about a year ago, and of course Mark Savoia is still the moderator I believe. Back then I would occasionally call Mark and pick his brain, a very nice fellow and loves sharing information as well. However, once I found LuLa and this forum I was hooked, although I still log in to EWF occasionally and compare the info there, still a lot of the old group I remember. I just ordered a P7000 to downsize from the 9900 I sold, as I'm in the process of moving my business to my home. I'm anxious to get it up and running and see exactly what I can do in regard to the maintenance questions posted here. I also have a very good relationship with a tech close to where I live and he's a genius when it comes to these printers, all makes. As a matter of fact he has trained a lot of the techs that work for Epson, as well as those for the other two biggies(Canon & HP). I just lucked out on that one I guess.
Hopefully we'll figure out what's actually going on with the latest iteration of Epson Pro Graphic printers and their maintenance requirements. I've never been one to be afraid of trying something just to see if it would work, and now I have a backup plan as well, with the tech I referred to.
Thanks again John, take care. My reply to your post was not meant to jump all over you, but to perhaps give you an opportunity to join in on the conversation. I hope you realized that was my only intention.
Gary
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Hi Garnick,
It is the "Wiper Exchange" menu item that is no longer there with the P9000. I was able to do everything you describe, and indeed when I closed the cover the carriage appeared to move back to the Capping Station. However, I could not then do anything further by the menu: hitting the power button to turn the printer back on did not work, nor anything else. Perhaps the problem lies in my turning the machine off immediately after I uncapped the head. That was what I understood I was supposed to do, and I am always nervous opening the cover with a "live" machine. But since I subsequently could never turn the printer back on (and had to pull the plug, re-plug, and then power on) maybe that's the root cause of the problem. It would be nice to have the exact instructions the Epson service techs must have.
I may not have made my point well enough, wouldn't be the first time. I believe I mentioned that originally I was using the "Wiper Exchange" menu as well, until the tech showed me that the Temporary PG offered more options. From that time forward I always used the Temp PG menu to clean/replace the Wiper Assembly as well as clean the cap station and flushing box. Of course here I am referring to the 9900. At no time did I ever shut down the printer while working on it. Therefore, when finished I would simply close the cover and the carriage would seek its position on the capping station as usual and I would proceed as usual, no problem. I do believe that your issue was related to the fact that you did indeed power off after releasing the carriage, but I will check that with my tech as soon as possible.
Gary
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Hi Garnick,
I think you were very clear, in fact. Thank you for checking with your tech contact.
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Hello Deanwork,
Thank you for your excellent suggestion about the Wide Format group, which I will follow up for sure. I have always been grateful for and admired your contributions to LuLa. I myself sometimes feel very frustrated with EPSON. I was just in my clumsy way trying to ensure that the discussion here didn't descend into an unproductive flamewar ("PC versus MAC" style).
This may be a good time to try to summarize my understanding of where we are so far. The discussions have been about finding answers to the following three questions:
1. What is the proper procedure to change the wiper blade / wiper assembly of a SureColor P7000 or P9000?
What is certain is that it cannot be exactly like the methodology for older generations of printer, such as the x900, since the Service Mode is missing the Wiper Exchange feature.
So far, we have received several possibilities, but all of them can apparently result in some heart-stopping moments and/or printer messages. This leads me to think that there must be an official methodology, documented in a yet-to-be revealed service manual for the service techs. Thus far I don't believe we have seen this.
2. Where can we get replacement wiper blades / wiper assemblies for a SureColor P7000 or P9000?
a. So far, we have heard that the older wiper assembly for older printer series such as the 9900 will probably work in the P9000. However, these older wiper assemblies do not have the same wiper blade as the P9000, and it would probably be preferable to use the official P9000 wiper blade.
b. No one has yet identified a source for the SureColor P7000 or P9000 wiper blades / assemblies.
3. What is the official list of maintenance schedules for the various components in a P7000 / P9000?
So far we have heard various opinions, but I am not aware of any definitive list. In short, I don't believe we have seen the pages from the yet-to-be-revealed Epson maintenance manuals for the P7000 / P9000. While better than nothing, opinions without this sort of official corroboration may be faulty; many of us tend to remember how things were for our older generation machines and forget that they may be different for these new machines. Without such a list, we cannot properly schedule maintenance, regardless of whether we plan to do it ourselves or have EPSON do it for us.
Anyway, that's where I think we are at this time. There are other things I would very much like to know, of course, but this list is a concrete and useful start.
Thanks again to everyone for their help. I hope it will benefit everyone, including EPSON (having their printers well maintained has to be good for them).
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If you want an official list of required maintenance, I suggest you refer to the user guide or contact Epson directly.
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Good idea, Farmer. Unfortunately neither appears to give us the answer:
1. I and the commercial sales person from whom I would buy the printer if I could get these questions answered have tried for over a month to get Epson / the Epson sales rep to give us the official maintenance schedules for the P9000. So far, they have not released this information to us despite repeated requests from us.
2. I of course checked the Epson P9000 User Guide online before asking this group (after checking my hardcopy 7900 User Guide first to see if Epson has provided such information in the past in their User Guide; nope, they don't seem to have in the past). I do not see any list of maintenance schedules; nothing leaps out to me about the replacement schedule for wiper blades or lubrication of the carriage guide and so on. But perhaps I missed something; it happens. Perhaps you could assist the group here by posting the maintenance schedule details you have suggested I can find there? Or maybe you have the leverage or magic touch with Epson to get them to give the list to you? Much appreciated if you can clear this up.
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Back again,
I've been in touch with my tech guy again with some further questions, for myself and for you. My last email to him was late last evening and I do not yet have a reply. When we converse through email sometimes the tech lingo between us does not translate properly, especially in my case of course. So last evening I asked him to verify my latest translation of what he had sent earlier. When I passed along the difficulty you were having with the P9000 and trying to access the Wiper etc. and then the not able to power up the printer properly, he agreed with my take on why that might be happening. He mentioned two possible scenarios as follows. If you want to power down the printer while doing the maintenance routine you must be certain to leave the carriage/print head in approximately the middle of the machine before powering up again, so that it will re-seat properly on the cap station. That is the case for each scenario actually, both for powering off and leaving the power on during maintenance. Also, and very important, once you are finished cleaning/replacing the wiper you must be sure to very gently push the wiper assembly back up to its initial position. Otherwise you could encounter some rather nasty results, accompanied by some not so pleasing messages before you are able to power up the printer again. It's really no surprise to me that Epson has deleted the Wiper Exchange menu in Service Mode, since the Temporary PG menu covers all you need for maintenance purposes. This is the exact procedure I followed with my 9900 for general maintenance purposes, although I'll leave out the first step, since it would not apply to the Px000 series. I also asked about the “Maintenance Schedule”, but haven’t heard back yet. He’s a very busy man!
All of the following is carried out while the printer is on. There is no need to power down for this sort of maintenance. If you have any reservations about that, simply place a piece of cardborad over the control panel so that you cannot touch the OK button by mistake. If you do wish to turn off the printer while the maintenance procedure is carried out, I cannot guarantee that the following will work in quite the same way.
1. In Service Mode, go to MECHA ADJUSTMENT
2. Scroll down to TEMPORARY PG > ENTER/OK(or for the your printer perhaps PG Adj.) to release the carriage/print head and expose the Capping Station for cleaning etc.
3. Open the cover and move the carriage/print head toward the middle of the printer for easier access to the maintenance area
4. To access the Flusing Box and Wiper Assembly, GENTLY pull that unit downward
5. When finished, GENTLY push the unit(Flushing Box & Wiper Assembly) back up to its initial location
6. Check carefully to make sure there are no foreign objects(cleaning supplies etc.) left in the maintenance area!
7. Close the cover and the carriage/print head will re-seat itself on the Capping Station
8. To return to Standard Mode, simply shut down the printer and then restart
And by the way, the answer is YES, we can order the Wiper Assembly from my tech contact. Good news for both of us! I just have to confirm whether he wants me to offer his information on the forum or forward it to you personally, although I’m pretty sure the forum approach will be OK with him. I'll be in touch again as soon as I have further information.
Gary
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Just an fyi. I found this supplier online that lists the same wiper assembly being compatible with both the older 79/99** series as well as the new Surecolor P9000/et al series.
see, https://www.unicompparts.com/spare-parts-c27/miscellaneous-c16/epson-wiper-assy-asp-1504179-p68
Compass Micro lists parts for the older printers but doesn't appear to list parts for the newer Surecolor P9000 printers (yet). A search of the part numbers for wiper assemblies 1504179 and 1616679 do turn up wiper assemblies on Compass Micro for the various printers, but not the P9000.
Ken
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Just an fyi. I found this supplier online that lists the same wiper assembly being compatible with both the older 79/99** series as well as the new Surecolor P9000/et al series.
see, https://www.unicompparts.com/spare-parts-c27/miscellaneous-c16/epson-wiper-assy-asp-1504179-p68
Compass Micro lists parts for the older printers but doesn't appear to list parts for the newer Surecolor P9000 printers (yet). A search of the part numbers for wiper assemblies 1504179 and 1616679 do turn up wiper assemblies on Compass Micro for the various printers, but not the P9000.
Ken
Hi Ken,
I just took a peek at the one displayed on the link you sent. The overall assembly is somewhat different from the one in the 9900. There's some sort off addition on the right side, which is the left side as shown. Unless that addition can be easily removed there's no way it would fit the 9900. Since I don't yet have the P7000(in transit) I haven't seen one of these up close and in person. Also, there's really no point in checking Compass Micro unless they have recently decided to ship to Canada. Of course all of this is moot, since I have a reliable source near Toronto, ON.
Thanks for the reply regardless Ken. I imagine there will be others who will find it helpful.
Gary
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Thanks so much for your extremely helpful reply, Gary. The procedure you list is almost the same as the one Datro kindly posted earlier, but the slight difference I expect will take the scariness out of it. Your news that your tech contact can provide the component and possibly also the maintenance schedules is very good news indeed. I look forward to hearing back from you once your tech contact gets some time to address these concerns.
Thank you again.
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Thanks so much for your extremely helpful reply, Gary. The procedure you list is almost the same as the one Datro kindly posted earlier, but the slight difference I expect will take the scariness out of it. Your news that your tech contact can provide the component and possibly also the maintenance schedules is very good news indeed. I look forward to hearing back from you once your tech contact gets some time to address these concerns.
Thank you again.
Still awaiting another reply from my very busy tech guy. I will not put his contact info on the forum until he OKs it, as I'm sure he will. By the way, have you tried the procedure I sent along, just wondering how it worked out for you if you did. However, I'll be talking to my tech friend before I wander into Service Mode on my new, Warranted P7000, as well as reading Epson's Warranty info very carefully. I think it might have changed somewhat since the 9900 days, not sure.
Gary
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I tried the procedure Monday. Works perfectly; no scariness at all.
I believe that the Warranty for the new printers is the same as for the previous generations at least concerning the potential misuse of Service Mode. Specifically, I believe that if you break something while in Service Mode, Epson will not consider the printer under warranty. That seems fair to me; it is analogous to breaking your camera while cleaning the sensor yourself -- the camera manufacturer is not going to consider that a warrantee issue. As long as your use of Service Mode does not break the printer, I can't see how Epson could object or even know. Of course, I will be very interested in what you conclude from reading the Warranty carefully.
Thank you again.
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I tried the procedure Monday. Works perfectly; no scariness at all.
I believe that the Warranty for the new printers is the same as for the previous generations at least concerning the potential misuse of Service Mode. Specifically, I believe that if you break something while in Service Mode, Epson will not consider the printer under warranty. That seems fair to me; it is analogous to breaking your camera while cleaning the sensor yourself -- the camera manufacturer is not going to consider that a warrantee issue. As long as your use of Service Mode does not break the printer, I can't see how Epson could object or even know. Of course, I will be very interested in what you conclude from reading the Warranty carefully.
Thank you again.
Great, I'm glad you tried it already. Now we both know that procedure works as I suspected. Did you leave the printer powered on while doing the maintenance, as I always have? It really isn't scary at all as long as you take the proper precautions as I mentioned. I sometimes use a small box placed over the control panel to prevent accidental contact with the "OK" button, but beyond that it's simply a matter of taking the time and not hurrying the job.
I'll be in touch again when I hear back from the tech fellow.
Gary
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Yes, the key difference between the procedure you outlined and what I understood Datro to suggest, is that after uncapping I did not turn the printer off before I opened the lid etc.
Looking forward to word from your tech contact.
Best wishes,
Jim
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Yes, the key difference between the procedure you outlined and what I understood Datro to suggest, is that after uncapping I did not turn the printer off before I opened the lid etc.
Looking forward to word from your tech contact.
Best wishes,
Jim
Hi Jim,
Would please let me know if you received the information I emailed to you through this site. If not, Ill send again.
Thanks,
Gary
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Hi Gary,
No I have not received an email from you or the site. Thanks for re-sending: jmlamont@magma.ca
jim
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Hi Gary,
I have not received anything from you directly or via the site. I see you are on the forum now and then. Could you re-send the information to: jmlamont@magma.ca
Thanks again.
Jim
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Hi Gary,
I have not received anything from you. If you are still visiting this site, could you let me know what the situation is?
Other members on this site,
Could you help me contact Gary as I suspect that somehow our communication link here isn't working. Don't know why. Am attempting to keep this thread visible to Gary (and/or other friends here) by re-posting.
Thanks.
p.s., In summary, what we are still in need of is:
1. Epson maintenance schedules for the various components of the P7000 / P9000, such as wiper blade changes, lubrication, and so on.
2. Source for wiper blades for the P7000 / P9000. The new design that comes installed in these machines; I already have a source for the x900 design.
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Anyone?