Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Juanito on March 27, 2017, 12:42:09 pm
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I was going to post this as an answer to another thread, but the I figured it might be worthwhile on its own. I've had possession of my X1D for all of five days now so I'm still at the early stages of understanding the capabilities of this camera and its operation. I've shot with it on the streets of NYC, the beachfront in San Diego and for a variety of environmental portraits along the way.
Before deciding on the X1D, I looked at the GFX in the store. I picked it up and then put it down never to consider it again. First, the low sync speed is a real issue for me. I regularly use strobes to overpower sunlight so I need the higher sync speed. Second, to the eye and to the hand, the Hasselblad is a Ferrari and the Fuji is a Ford Pinto. While I'll grant you aesthetics are on their own no reason to drop a stack of cash on a camera, if you are going to spend the money, better to spend it on something that just looks and feels amazing - which the X1D is and does.
The X1D is the most elegantly designed camera I've ever held in my 27 years of professional experience. It feels great in the hand. You just want to pick it up and shoot with it. More than that though its compact and sleek size makes it a capable daily shooter. My H5 generally stays in my bag unless I'm doing a setup shot where weight isn't an issue. (I've tried doing environmental projects with it, but you've really got to want it and be prepared to make some sacrifices.) The X1D can do double duty: it will handle the pro work and the street shooting. Put a camera strap on it and head out the door. In looking at the GFX, while I'm sure you can use it like you might a smaller format camera, its boxy, oversized shape makes it unlikely that you'll want to.
I weighed my Fuji XT2 with an 18mm lens, Nikon D810 with 28mm f1.8 and the X1D with 45mm lens. The Fuji was a full pound lighter than both of the other two. The X1D weighed in two ounces less than the Nikon! (Two pounds, eight ounces for the X1D.) For the most part, the X1D acts less like a traditional MF camera and more like a small format camera, albeit a slower one. The AF is much faster than the H series though slow by DSLR standards. 6400 ISO is highly usable. A 6400 ISO test print at 11x14 looked great. The soft clicking of the leaf shutter is both quiet and doesn't sound like a traditional shutter - a big plus for working unobtrusively.
For my walking around images, I found myself using the Aperture priority mode - which was generally spot on even in backlit situations. I haven't dug too deeply into the files themselves. Overall, they look like what I expect - sharp, good color, plenty of highlight and shadow detail.
In the things-I-don't-like category, I'm having an issue with the shutter release that needs to be resolved. Also, when shooting with polarized sunglasses, the viewfinder is completely unviewable in landscape orientation (works fine when leaned over to vertical). There's some odds and ends bugginess as well that I hope will be cleaned up in future firmware upgrades. The camera itself takes some effort to learn and adapt to its ways. The viewfinder blackout took me back at first, but now I'm used to it and it doesn't unduly slow me down. A thorough reading of the user manual is essential.
What I love about the X1D is that for the first time, I can truly embrace medium format as a viable format for my daily photographic needs. I can use it for my studio work, street work, landscapes, and even tourist snaps (if I'm so inclined). It will become my primary camera. If I need more speed and even less weight, I can turn to my Fuji XT2. The loser in all of this is my Nikon because it's in the middle getting squeezed. The day may soon come when I sell it off and stick with mirrorless formats.
The final question to be answered is: Will the X1D offer results that you can't get with cameras costing a fraction of the price? Excepting for possibilities offered by high sync speeds working with a flash (which for me is big), I'll say no. Though I shot with MF film cameras and have owned the Hasselblad H series now for almost 10 years, I don't subscribe to the whole MF "look" thing. I just don't see much difference between formats in the final images anymore. If you've got the money, the X1D is a great camera just like a Ferrari is a great car. If you don't have one though, don't worry, you'll still get to where you're going.
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I really didn't want to, but I couldn't resist with your car comparison.
If Ferrari would sell me such a unfinished product they would be in trouble. But the X1D is more like a tesla. Super stylish super fun, with its quirks.
The most important part is that it's fun to use for you. As in the end that's the most important part.
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Love your galleries Raymond ....
In practice, how would you say the EVF is in every day use, for example compared to your Fuji X-T1?
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I really didn't want to, but I couldn't resist with your car comparison.
If Ferrari would sell me such a unfinished product they would be in trouble. But the X1D is more like a tesla. Super stylish super fun, with its quirks.
LOL. Yes, a Tesla. It's definitely a Tesla.
John
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Love your galleries Raymond ....
In practice, how would you say the EVF is in every day use, for example compared to your Fuji X-T1?
EVF is great. I don't think twice about it. It's bright. Excellent detail. Shadows hold up well. It doesn't refresh as fast as the XT2 so if you're moving quickly, you'll notice a little hesitation. I only noticed it though when doing a comparison between the two cameras. In practical use, I don't think you'll notice it.
John
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The sunglasses issue is an evf thing. That's happened to many on various evf based cameras.
Can you speak a bit of your hand holding experience? I can't hand hold my H in ambient light under 1/250 and expect a really sharp image. My V i am lucky at 1/250 handheld and usually need 500 to have something that remotely is tripod sharp. And this is with a long normal to short tele length.
I wonder if the x1d without a mirror allows for a much slower handhold.
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Profoto and Elinchrom are both working on HSS/HS support for Fuji.
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Profoto and Elinchrom are both working on HSS/HS support for Fuji.
And so is Cactus, that will work with most strobe brands, and even with TTL.
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The sunglasses issue is an evf thing. That's happened to many on various evf based cameras.
Can you speak a bit of your hand holding experience? I can't hand hold my H in ambient light under 1/250 and expect a really sharp image. My V i am lucky at 1/250 handheld and usually need 500 to have something that remotely is tripod sharp. And this is with a long normal to short tele length.
I wonder if the x1d without a mirror allows for a much slower handhold.
No problem with handholding. Here's a test I did at ISO 1600, f3.5, 1/15 sec. The image has softened through the jpeg compression. No sharpening added.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-kb4pJ9b/0/X3/John_Mireles-X1D%20test_0193-X3.jpg)
John
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I got my X1D, and I will report on it in a day or so, but I need an extra battery. No one has them. If anyone has an extra battery or know where I can buyone, on either side of the Atlantic, please let me know by a message here. I could pay more than list, since I need a backup. Thanks for listening, and my first impression of the X1D is that is is way better than I thought. More soon.
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I got my X1D, and I will report on it in a day or so, but I need an extra battery. No one has them. If anyone has an extra battery or know where I can buyone, on either side of the Atlantic, please let me know by a message here. I could pay more than list, since I need a backup. Thanks for listening, and my first impression of the X1D is that is is way better than I thought. More soon.
The word is that the batteries must be shipped by boat since airline regulations don't allow lithium batteries to be shipped by air anymore. So we have to weight for a slow boat to cross the ocean.
John
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I am starting to get into the menus, etc. I have one crucial question:
I shoot with LiveView in the D810, where I turn one dial to change the shutter speed and see the change reflected in LiveView, and with the other dial I change the aperture and see it get darker or lighter in LiveView. Can we do this in the X1D, and how?
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I am starting to get into the menus, etc. I have one crucial question:
I shoot with LiveView in the D810, where I turn one dial to change the shutter speed and see the change reflected in LiveView, and with the other dial I change the aperture and see it get darker or lighter in LiveView. Can we do this in the X1D, and how?
Sure, in the menu system, go to General Settings/Display and check Exposure Simulation for all exposure modes.
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Sure, in the menu system, go to General Settings/Display and check Exposure Simulation for all exposure modes.
Thanks! Another question I have is how to I move the focus point around the screen so that I can zoom in on it. I can't seem to find how that is done?
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Thanks! Another question I have is how to I move the focus point around the screen so that I can zoom in on it. I can't seem to find how that is done?
Hold down the AF/MF button on top of the camera for 2 seconds and the AF point grid will appear in both the EVF and the rear LCD. You can move the AF point on the rear LCD either by pressing on the desired AF point on the screen or by using the front and rear dials. If you are looking through the EVF, you have to use the front and rear dials. In Manual Focus mode, you can use back button autofocus by pressing the AF-D button on the back of the camera.
One glitchy thing is that it is easy to accidentally switch from MF to AF when you press the AF/MF button for two seconds. Hasselblad should come up with a menu item that lets you completely turn off AF that is triggered by the shutter button.
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Touchscreen
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Thanks! Another question I have is how to I move the focus point around the screen so that I can zoom in on it. I can't seem to find how that is done?
The easy way is to double tap the screen where you'd like to zoom in. Double tap to zoom out. It's instantaneous.
John
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Too bad a FW upgrade can't add a small joystick.
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First day with the X1D and the 90mm, as so far it relates to my personal workflow, which is all about close-ups, stacking, and mini-dioramas/landscapes. At first feel, I can say that the haptics are better than any camera I have ever used, so far. Indeed, it is very elegant.
And I (thanks to some help here) managed to wrestle myself into being able to get a little of what I want out of the camera today. I did some focus-stacking with the X1D and results are very promising. I can say a little. The BLACKS are not as good IMO as those in the D810 (ISO 64), but they just fine. What so far is most amazing to me is the roll-off for the WHITES/highlights. There is (much like a long focus-throw, to use an analogy) a very wide bandwidth to pull down the highlights, much better than the D810, IMO. This is good news because harsh highlights are hard to “make pretty.” In fact, this is VERY good news for my work.
And the sharpness (90mm lens) is fine, good enough to satisfy my demands, which was a big worry for me. And the color is as I like it, gentle, not too saturated and with no trace of the HDR look about it.
In short, I have satisfied my worst fears and doubt that I will be sending it back, as I have many other systems, except the Nikon D810. It has some quirks and something that I just can’t like at all (like the lack of a 4-way controller), but I tell myself to be grateful and heaven knows I am used to suffering all kinds of bad design for the sake of a good image. And the X1D has that, and better than I even hoped.
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Hi Michael,
Congrats on the new camera and glad to read that you like it!
I was 99% sure you would wait for the D820, so it comes as an interesting surprise.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi Michael,
Congrats on the new camera and glad to read that you like it!
I was 99% sure you would wait for the D820, so it comes as an interesting surprise.
Cheers,
Bernard
Well, it's not over yet! I have returned many a system because I did not love it, but in this case I believe I really like the X1D and can put up with the features that make no sense to me, etc. I still may find something that is a showstopper, but I have crossed the main bridges to my work, IMO, and it still looks pretty good. The image quality beckons me, which I did not find with the Pentax K1 or the Fuji GFX. It is these kinds of features where we can agree to differ, and also find our differences. As they say, "Horses for Courses."
And it is so elegant!
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P.S. I also had a little "Come to Jesus" moment when I realized that the GFX, as nice as it is, was essentially an extension or continuation of what I have in the Nikoin D810, but in my experience not as good, and certainly not better than the D810, and note this phrase..."for my work." On the other hand, the X1D can't replicate what I do with the D810, so we really do have two different kinds of systems here, again: for my work.
And while the GFX points to an extension of my past, the X1D holds the possibility of liberation from that past to a degree, and my learning a bit of another song (photographically speaking) than just the one that I have been singing. So it is more promising IMO... and the color and lens sharpness is really something to see and use.
And I may still get the D810 upgrade when it appears. In other words, I now work with two different systems.
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P.S. I also had a little "Come to Jesus" moment when I realized that the GFX, as nice as it is, was essentially an extension or continuation of what I have in the Nikoin D810, but in my experience not as good, and certainly not better than the D810, and note this phrase..."for my work."
Perhaps you've covered this elsewhere, if so point me in the right direction, but what do you see as the key differences between the X1D and GFX and how does that relate to the D810?
John
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Perhaps you've covered this elsewhere, if so point me in the right direction, but what do you see as the key differences between the X1D and GFX and how does that relate to the D810?
John
This thread is about our impressions of the Hasselblad X1D so, although I mentioned the GFX, another thread would be more appropriate. And I may start one after I learn more about the X1D. But, in passing, I will mention one obvious difference between the X1D and the GFX, and that is that the GFX, via an adapter, can take Nikon F-Mount lenses, while the X1D, because it (at this point) only has leaf shutters, cannot take F-Mount lenses. So, my collection of exotic and industrial lenses, which work on the D810 and the GFX (although not to my satisfaction), do not work on the X1D.
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Next question for those who know.
Since the X1D does not have a port for a wired remote, and I prefer not to use Phocus, I can use the inter TIMER set to 2 seconds. The problem is I want to set the Timer to go off each time I press the shutter release, so I can stack focus. I tried activating the time for 2 seconds, and saving the setup to C1, but it only works one time and then the timer goes back to not working unless reset. How can work around this?
And second, as for updates to the firmware, I cannot find where is says what version of the firmware I am currently using. It only allows me to check for updates and tells me there are none. How does it do that? Look for Wi-Fi. I have no idea, but I hope someone among you does.
Thanks in advance.
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Next question for those who know.
Since the X1D does not have a port for a wired remote, and I prefer not to use Phocus, I can use the inter TIMER set to 2 seconds. The problem is I want to set the Timer to go off each time I press the shutter release, so I can stack focus. I tried activating the time for 2 seconds, and saving the setup to C1, but it only works one time and then the timer goes back to not working unless reset. How can work around this?
And second, as for updates to the firmware, I cannot find where is says what version of the firmware I am currently using. It only allows me to check for updates and tells me there are none. How does it do that? Look for Wi-Fi. I have no idea, but I hope someone among you does.
Thanks in advance.
Camera Settings/Self Timer/When Finished. Set it to "Stay" and not "Exit."
Firmware is listed under General Settings/About.
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Camera Settings/Self Timer/When Finished. Set it to "Stay" and not "Exit."
As to the "STAY," I find nowhere that is offered. Let me be clear. I set the timer to 2 seconds. and mark it active. Where then is the STAY option?
Ultimately, I want to put in in C1 or one of the custom user settings.
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As to the "STAY," I find nowhere that is offered. Let me be clear. I set the timer to 2 seconds. and mark it active. Where then is the STAY option?
Ultimately, I want to put in in C1 or one of the custom user settings.
In the Camera Settings menu, you will find the Self Timer submenu. In that submenu, there are two options under the "When Finished." section. "Stay" or "Exit". You want it to be on "Stay."
What firmware are you using?
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In the Camera Settings menu, you will find the Self Timer submenu. In that submenu, there are two options under the "When Finished." section. "Stay" or "Exit". You want it to be on "Stay."
What firmware are you using?
OK. Thanks. I did not know where to find it, but I did.
The version of firmware I have is V1.15.0.6541
But on the firmware site, it just says V1.15.0, so I don't know why they are not more specific.
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I'm noticing some pretty heavy vignetting with the 45mm lens. It's removable in Lightroom, but I'd expect a $3,000 lens to be more uniform in its exposure.
Image with only global density adjustments:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-jfKr8q5/0/L/B0000964-2-L.jpg)
After lens compensation using the profile for the HC 50 f3.5 and moving the vignetting slider to 100.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-CDWXHsN/0/L/B0000964-L.jpg)
John
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..
John
still i like the first better ;)
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still i like the first better ;)
Me, too, but the vignetting makes it hard to stitch composites. Hopefully they'll ship an accurate profile for these lenses soon for LR.
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My First Impressions
Since it might be fun to hear some first thoughts on encountering the X1D, here goes. I am using the X1D and the 90mm, as regards how it relates to my personal workflow, which is all about close-ups, stacking, and mini-dioramas/landscapes. At first feel, I can say that the haptics are better than any camera I have ever used. Indeed, it is very elegant. It’s not too heavy and not too light, not too big and not too tiny. And it looks smaller than it feels when you pick it up.
I have been using Nikon digitals pretty much since the beginning. I still have my first DSLR, the mighty 6 Mpx Nikon D1x, which cost $5K. And all these years I have always had to tweak the color for this or that color cast. There are a lot of reasons why I find the X1D just the camera I need, but right up there near the tip of the top is the color. Right now I am shooting raw (of course) and developing using Adobe ACR with a sensor profile custom-created by Ming Thein. Even without his profile, the color is almost good-to-go. If I add the profile, there is just a gentle settling into even more delicate color. This makes the image color superb as far as I can see and much better than what I’m used to. What a treat after years of tweaking!
Although the lens I am using (90mm XCD) is not as sharp as my Otus lenses, it is quite sharp enough. Moreover, the total style or impact of the combination of color, sharpness, delicateness of color, etc. is better than what I can achieve with my beloved Nikon D810.
As mentioned, I am not used to being treated to such pure corrected color, with less not having the guess work or attempts to remember what a particular shoot was supposed to look like. This alone would endear me to any camera.
I have taken enough close-up photos at this point to confirm to myself that getting the X1D was a great decision on my part. There is no doubt in my mind that the color that comes out of this camera is much closer to reality than I get from my Nikon D810. Much better.
I am amazed at how little post color-work has to be done with the X1D images.
And I (thanks to some help here) managed to wrestle myself into being able to get a little of what I want out of the camera today. I did some focus-stacking with the X1D and results are very promising, especially what I call “short stacks, stacks of.4-5 layers. But shining through that is the simple fact that with the X1D, a single shot, with some preparation on my part, is so good that I may not need to stack all that much. I wonder what I will do with all the time I’ll save.
The BLACKS are not as good IMO as those in the D810 (ISO 64), but they are just fine. What so far is most amazing to me is the roll-off for the WHITES/highlights. There is (much like a long focus-throw, to use an analogy) a very wide bandwidth to pull down the highlights, much better than the D810, IMO. Much better. This is good news because harsh highlights are hard to “make pretty.” In fact, this is VERY good news for my work.
And the sharpness (90mm lens) is fine, good enough to satisfy my demands, which was a big worry for me. And the color is as I like it, gentle, not too saturated and with no trace of the HDR look about it.
In short, I have satisfied my worst fears and doubt that I will be sending it back, as I have many other systems, except the Nikon D810. It has some quirks and some things that I just can’t like at all (like the lack of a 4-way controller), but I tell myself to be grateful and heaven knows I am used to suffering all kinds of bad design for the sake of a good image. And the X1D has that, and even better than I could have hoped.
I will perhaps have more notes in a few days.
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I had the same concern with the 45, vignetting, and panos. And yes, my 45 has same kind of vignetting like Juanito's at max aperture.
While I haven't done any serious panos yet, stitching bunch of handheld f/8 shots in LR produced no visible issues, to my surprise. I don't know what kind of sorcery LR does, but it works.
Alex
Me, too, but the vignetting makes it hard to stitch composites. Hopefully they'll ship an accurate profile for these lenses soon for LR.
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While I haven't done any serious panos yet, stitching bunch of handheld f/8 shots in LR produced no visible issues, to my surprise. I don't know what kind of sorcery LR does, but it works.
Interesting. I shot a three-shot pano with the 45 yesterday, overcast daylight scene, and the edge vignetting was plainly visible in the result. Maybe LR "gets it" sometimes and not others, or maybe it was related to the projection I selected. (?)
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Interesting. I shot a three-shot pano with the 45 yesterday, overcast daylight scene, and the edge vignetting was plainly visible in the result. Maybe LR "gets it" sometimes and not others, or maybe it was related to the projection I selected. (?)
Light fall off correction with dedicated pano software such as PTgui or Autopsno has been standard and flawless for 10 years or so... ;)
Cheerz,
Bernard
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Questions about the X1D:
Is there a way to turn Live View on and have it remain on? It keeps turning off, which is a hassle.
How else is Live View turned on other then pressing the shutter-release half-way down?
Is there an AC adapter for the X1D?
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Questions about the X1D:
Is there a way to turn Live View on and have it remain on? It keeps turning off, which is a hassle.
How else is Live View turned on other then pressing the shutter-release half-way down?
Is there an AC adapter for the X1D?
I haven't figured out a way to keep Live View on. That would be a great option for a future FW update if there's not some double top secret setting that already does that. There's also no AC adapter. The camera is always going to pull power from the battery even if you're tethered.
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I haven't figured out a way to keep Live View on. That would be a great option for a future FW update if there's not some double top secret setting that already does that. There's also no AC adapter. The camera is always going to pull power from the battery even if you're tethered.
Look under "Power & Timeouts," thanks to a note from Ming Thein. And there is no AC-Adapter for the X1D at this point.
This is the best camera I have ever used, so far. Here is a single shot with the 90mm lens. Don't mind the variation in the background, which is just a wrinkled piece of black velvet.
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##My comments below
Alex
Questions about the X1D:
Is there a way to turn Live View on and have it remain on? It keeps turning off, which is a hassle.
## I'm not sure if the value specified in General / Power & Timeouts / Display Off affects live view. I'm under the impression live view timeout is a set value. Need to test to verify.
## Another thing I noticed was, especially having the camera in portrait orientation, it's really easy to accidentally turn off live view when your left hand is over the EVF eye sensor (when you try to pinch zoom, etc).
How else is Live View turned on other then pressing the shutter-release half-way down?
## As far as I know, the only way to turn on live view is half-press shutter while EVF eye sensor is not blocked.
Is there an AC adapter for the X1D?
## Nope
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##My comments below
Alex
Questions about the X1D:
Is there a way to turn Live View on and have it remain on? It keeps turning off, which is a hassle.
## I'm not sure if the value specified in General / Power & Timeouts / Display Off affects live view. I'm under the impression live view timeout is a set value. Need to test to verify.
That seems to leave Live View on.
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I can confirm that regardless of the value set in General / Power & Timeouts / Display Off, Live View on LCD screen times out at 15 seconds from last operation (dials dialed, shutter half-pressed, etc). This really needs to be a longer, preferably configurable value.
Alex
That seems to leave Live View on.
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Headed out over the mountains from San Diego into the Anza Borrego desert to do some more camera testing and check out the wildflowers that are still in bloom. The wind was gusting at over 60 mph - which cut short my day, but I still got some workable photos.
I'm really enjoying shooting with this camera. It's not as convenient to use as my XT2 with its pop out LCD and wider range of lens options. (Once I get the converter, I'll be able to use my HC lenses including the 28mm which is perfect for this kind of work.) I wore a different set of sunglasses today than the day that I wrote my initial report. This time I didn't have a problem with my polarized sunglasses blocking out the EVF. The viewfinder is still dim with my shades, but it's usable. The sharpness and detail of these images is impressive. Very user friendly files with plenty of DR. Easy to pull detail out of the shadows and knock down the highlights.
The focus magnification was really helpful a number of times today. When I'd go in close for a tight shot, I'd manually focus so that I could see a tight crop of the image and really nail my focus. There's times with the H5 when I'm just sort of guessing on the focus (same with the D810; it back focuses too).
I'd love to see a profile in Lightroom for the lens. The vignetting can be difficult to remove with the available adjustments.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-7S8BmM9/0/XL/John_Mireles-Anza_Borrego-1003-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-DFRJ73V/0/XL/John_Mireles-Anza_Borrego-1013-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-2xQmwfD/0/XL/John_Mireles-Anza_Borrego-1104-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-TtkbXBx/0/XL/John_Mireles-Anza_Borrego-1144-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-hcxkBX4/0/XL/John_Mireles-Anza_Borrego-1116-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-vhJkcdS/0/XL/John_Mireles-Anza_Borrego-1131-XL.jpg)
John
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I am very pleased with the iQ of the images from the Hasselblad X1D. Here is one with the 90mm.
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So... anyone had to pick between the X1D and GFX?
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So... anyone had to pick between the X1D and GFX?
Sure, I had both systems and had to decide. The GFX had all the bells and whistles, but the X1D had the IQ that I need. So I returned the GFX.
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Other way around here. Used both for a week. Saw that the X1D has to many problems or let's say inconveniences for me and no value benefit. The GFX is fun to use. Has good IQ and has some far more interesting lens choices.
(I have to add that I shoot mainly with an IQ3100 on a XF and IQ180 on my Arca)
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So... anyone had to pick between the X1D and GFX?
I owned both, and have now returned the GFX after shooting with it for 30 days alongside the X1D. For me, the choice between these two camera systems turned out to be very easy to make, and should be quite obvious to anyone who picks up an X1D and a GFX side-by-side and tries the different lenses. The DNA of both cameras is fundamentally different. The most important thing to me is the form factor. I already have a Hasselblad H2 with a Phase IQ 180 back and a full complement of Hasselblad lenses. I do not look forward to travelling with it. I look forward to hiking with it even less. So, as a more portable alternative to the H2 system, I wanted... a more portable alternative. A medium format system that is small, light, easy to carry, and simple to operate, with minimal knobs, buttons and menu options. That is the X1D. The GFX body is heavier and much bulkier. The lenses are even bulkier. The user interface on the GFX and all of those buttons and dials are a turn off to me. I would forget after three weeks which button and which dial controlled which function, and have to relearn it. OTOH, there are others that love all of that stuff and dislike the minimalism of the X1D.
If the image quality or the lenses with the GFX were superior to the X1D, or if better software options were available for the GFX, my decision may have been different, but that was not the case. There will be endless arguments comparing the color from the two systems, high ISO performance, lens performance at 250% magnification, etc. Everyone will have an opinion, but at the end of the day it's personal and I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone that the X1D is a dog and the the GFX is fabulous, or vice versa. Those opinions are personal and subjective. As it turned out, the one area where I thought the GFX would have an advantage that would have been important to me is the EVF. The GFX EVF has much better specs on paper, but in practice the X1D EVF is actually better. The EVF for the GFX shimmers, which is very distracting to me. More significantly, the magnified live view of the GFX EVF is poorly implemented. Try it with both cameras. The difference is readily apparent. Of all the "features" that a mirrorless camera offers, the single, most important feature to me is the ability to accurately focus the lenses using magnified live view.
Lens lineup? Hasselblad has released 3 lenses so far. A 30mm, a 45mm and a 90mm. They are superb lenses. Four more have been announced. A 120mm Macro, a 65mm, a 22mm and a 35-75mm zoom. I expect that those lenses will also be superb. That's a pretty complete lineup for my needs. Fairly comparable to Fuji's announced lenses for the GFX. I am sure Fuji will fill out its lens lineup with a bunch of other lenses that are f/2 or f/2.8 lenses or zooms and are the size of bazookas. I have zero interest in such lenses.
One other thing. The X1D is the most beautifully designed and enjoyable to operate camera that I have used in over 50 years of photography. It is a joy to use. The GFX is a very workmanlike camera system. It can get the job done. However, there was no particular pleasure in using it. Sort of like the difference between driving a 911 and a minivan. Both will get you from point A to point B, but they are very different experiences.
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This is getting interesting... seems like we have a draw. ;) The truth is that these 2 cameras have a lot it common, but also enough differences that they will appeal to different people.
The GFX is a standalone system that is designed to attract APS-C of FX shooters to replace their current line up, while the X1D is IMHO more a second system for people already owning something else.
As far as I am concerned though, I have just read the very positive review of the GFX at Preview, but to me the most relevant part is the conclusion that you can get 90% of the performance of it with a a7RII, D810, 5DRs... those bodies being due for replacement and offering a wider set of lenses options, better AF,...
Not trying to convince anyone, I may get a X1D at some point of time... or an X2D more probably if I can afford it then. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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This is getting interesting... seems like we have a draw. ;) The truth is that these 2 cameras have a lot it common, but also enough differences that they will appeal to different people.
The GFX is a standalone system that is designed to attract APS-C of FX shooters to replace their current line up, while the X1D is IMHO more a second system for people already owning something else.
As far as I am concerned though, I have just read the very positive review of the GFX at Preview, but to me the most relevant part is the conclusion that you can get 90% of the performance of it with a a7RII, D810, 5DRs... those bodies being due for replacement and offering a wider set of lenses options, better AF,...
Not trying to convince anyone, I may get a X1D at some point of time... or an X2D more probably if I can afford it then. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
That 10% is so worth it tho
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That 10% is so worth it tho
The perception thereof will determine the decision to invest or not 15,000 US$ in the GFX/X1D.
Owning both a H6D-100c and D810, I am personally not convinced that a 33x44mm sensor will be that valuable compared to a good FX body with great lenses such as the Otus series, but great if you can see a difference justifying the investement. ;) I can fully understand the desire to move to MF, and I was myself very close at some point in time to cancel my H6D order and go for a X1D instead, but I now realize that this was an attempt to cut the costs while still feeling MF...
I am fully convinced that the GFX and X1D are great cameras in their own right, but that we need to be realistic about what they offer relative to other options.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Very uncertain between X1D and GFX though in the last 4 days I've started leaning towards the Hasselblad mainly due its color/tonal response and its being an essential photographic tool, not overloaded with a billion of functions and set up (a sort of Leica M approach).
Though I can perceive that the GFW has some clear advantages in terms of (tilting) lcd and evf. So it surprises me to hear that the X1D evf looks better but that's a good news.
The other concern is the reported sluggishness of the Af and the overall system. Can someone report on this?
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For me, the choice between GFX and X1D turned on the lenses, which I must admit I am sensitive to. The native GFX lenses I had were nothing special, while the native lenses for the X1D were good enough. The X1D lenses were not Otus level, but they managed to impress me. And the color tone on the X1D, which is a little reserved IMO, was just what I need to build on. And there was the fact that when I adapted the Zeiss Otus series to the GFX, I was just not impressed by the results. I had given up on the X!D, canceled my order after waiting seven months, and bought the GFX. But when to my eyes saw the results (the images) I took with the GFX were really not any better than what I can get with the Nikoin D810 at base ISO of 64, I had a moment of truth. I can't speak to street or sport photography, since I don't do it.
In my case, the Hasselblad X1D is a second camera, opening up new vistas (anything's possible) for me, while the GFX appeared to me as a replacement or another attempt at what I already have with the Nikon D810, which I continue to use. Plus, the haptics were worse IMO than the D810 (which I like). Everything about the GFX seemed less than what I expected from so expensive a system, while the X1D met those expectations.
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Michael thanks a lot for your opinion.
I just sold all my canon equipment and the X1D/GFX would be my only camera (apart from my X100f), that's why I'm carefully evaluating my next step.
I don't do sport photography so the fastest AF is not a priority provided that it is enough to work under normal conditions...
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Michael thanks a lot for your opinion.
I just sold all my canon equipment and the X1D/GFX would be my only camera (apart from my X100f), that's why I'm carefully evaluating my next step.
I don't do sport photography so the fastest AF is not a priority provided that it is enough to work under normal conditions...
Because of having (relatively) a lot of Nikon F-mount lenses, I continue to value my Nikon D810 and use it all the time. The X1D has quality lenses above that of the native GFX lenses (to my eyes). And the color with the X1D is very refined on Adobe ACR as far as I can see. I do need a closer lens (the coming macro) for the X1D, but I can work with this camera. It does what I need done.
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For me, the choice between GFX and X1D turned on the lenses, which I must admit I am sensitive to. The native GFX lenses I had were nothing special, while the native lenses for the X1D were good enough. The X1D lenses were not Otus level, but they managed to impress me. And the color tone on the X1D, which is a little reserved IMO, was just what I need to build on. And there was the fact that when I adapted the Zeiss Otus series to the GFX, I was just not impressed by the results. I had given up on the X!D, canceled my order after waiting seven months, and bought the GFX. But when to my eyes saw the results (the images) I took with the GFX were really not any better than what I can get with the Nikoin D810 at base ISO of 64, I had a moment of truth. I can't speak to street or sport photography, since I don't do it.
In my case, the Hasselblad X1D is a second camera, opening up new vistas (anything's possible) for me, while the GFX appeared to me as a replacement or another attempt at what I already have with the Nikon D810, which I continue to use. Plus, the haptics were worse IMO than the D810 (which I like). Everything about the GFX seemed less than what I expected from so expensive a system, while the X1D met those expectations.
Do you mean that the D810+Otus is superior than the X1D+Lenses?
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Do you mean that the D810+Otus is superior than the X1D+Lenses?
No. They are two different cameras and are good at different things, IMO. I do my technical camera work with the D810 because I have all the lenses setup up for that mount. I do my "exploring" with the Hasselblad X1d... and am learning what I can do, but also waiting for their macro lens in June-ish to really find out.
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Yes they are. As is any Leica r Apo to any gfx lens.
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Here are a few other comments after having used the Hasselblad X1D for a while:
I did a series of test shots using my D810 and the Otus 85mm lens as compared to using the X1d with the 90mm lens. While there is no question in my mind that the D810/Otus is better (and the X1D is less sharp, etc.), the difference with the X1D is not enough to make me “dislike” the performance of the X1D. It is good enough for what I do, which (to me) is saying something.
There is a quality to shooting with the X1D that (I guess) I like. It is quite different than using the D810/Otus and I am working on getting used to that difference. Operationally, I am used to (and like) the D810 and I find trying to return to LiveView after taking a photo with the X1D not a fun experience. I would rather have a dedicated button (or the ability to assign one) so that I have a 100% positive press, rather that pussyfooting around to make sure I don’t take a photo when I only want to have LiveView again.
I have gotten used to using the 2 sec. timer instead of a hard-wired remote, so that is not a problem. I don’t like the focus-by-wire method of the X1D lenses, but I do like the results of X1D Focusing, which are clear and positive, so I can live with that.
I am still trying to decide whether I like the overall look of the IQ with the X1D. It is “bright” and a bit transparent compared to the more “viscous” look of the Nikon D810. As Obama said to Hilary Clinton “You’re liable enough, Hilary.” I am leaning in that direction with the “look” of the X1D. I can learn to use it for what I need and that is a form of “liking it,” IMO.
The form factor and haptics are perfect, and the magnesium body is really a chunk. The lenses are not too big, although I am preparing myself for the shock of the much larger 120mm macro, after having owned a Hasselblad HC 120mm. The macro lens is what I miss right now with the X1D, because I need to get a little closer. I find myself liking the X1d and seem to be preparing a kit to take this little camera on the road. However, I have learned to like my D810 even more than I used to after my experience with the Pentax K1, the Fuji GFX, and now the X1D.
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Michael: what's about the "MF look" which is said to render better the tridimensionality of the image? Can you perceive that (in relation to the look coming out from the D810) or not at all?
For me, the sharpness is not the goal as I rather prefer a more 3-d look provided by the tonal response and the gradual transition from black to white areas.
Thanks!
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Michael: what's about the "MF look" which is said to render better the tridimensionality of the image? Can you perceive that (in relation to the look coming out from the D810) or not at all?
For me, the sharpness is not the goal as I rather prefer a more 3-d look provided by the tonal response and the gradual transition from black to white areas.
Thanks!
The style of the lens, for me, gives (or does not give) the dimensionality of the lens. What I look for in MF is accutance, micro-contrast, and more light, etc. (whatever terms you want to use). I expect a MF to have those qualities over the FF sensor. However, lots of things are involved, including that it looks like the Nikon D810 (perhaps) did something in hardware/firmware to make their Blacks stand up better. I don't know the details, but I know what I see.
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It seems the X1D has the sensor of the already amazing H5D, so technically the IQ is better than D810.
But it's really slow and difficult to use. I don't think it's as versatile as the Nikon...
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It seems the X1D has the sensor of the already amazing H5D, so technically the IQ is better than D810.
But it's really slow and difficult to use. I don't think it's as versatile as the Nikon...
For me, it's "Horses for Courses;" I still am using my Nikon D810 for all kinds of things, but the X1D i am going to try to make a "traveling" camera. Time will tell.
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It seems the X1D has the sensor of the already amazing H5D, so technically the IQ is better than D810.
But it's really slow and difficult to use. I don't think it's as versatile as the Nikon...
Yes, D810 is one of the most flexible cameras: wildlife, landscape, street, ... I have unfortunately never used D810 with Otus lenses, but have heard that the results are astounding. Micheal's comparison is very interesting. Funny how an MF system is lighter and cheaper (at least the lenses) than a 35mm one :-).
I do not feel that X1D is slow or difficult to use. Yes, it takes a long time to turn on, but once in "sleep" it is instantly ready. Together with Leica M and Q it is one of the easiest cameras to use, IMHO.
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It seems the X1D has the sensor of the already amazing H5D, so technically the IQ is better than D810.
But it's really slow and difficult to use. I don't think it's as versatile as the Nikon...
I would agree, I own a D810 alongside my Hasselblads (and soon an X1D). In my 25 years of shooting professionally I have never found one camera that would do everything and I don't think that will ever be the case. Different cameras for different jobs/approaches and they produce different results (partly due to form factor).
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I can't really understand if the camera is really slow or just slow in comparison with a DsLR.
I don't expect its AF to be nikon/canon like, so the question is: does its AF impair its use under normal conditions? Internet (FB X1D user group) is full of people complaining about its slow AF and the impossibility to get the focus right.
Thanks for your answers
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I never (or seldom) use AF, so I know little about it. I am worried more, at this point, by manual focus.
I ’m caught between the devil and the deep-blue sea, with the X1D and the D810. For example, I do a test indoors in a room with not too much light. And I focus on a particular object and shoot (for each camera) at f/16, f/8, and f/3.2.
Well, with Live View on the D810 (Otus 85) I can hardly see (I can’t see!) to focus clearly in LiveView and I need the Z-finder even to do that. While, with the LiveView on the X1D (90mm), I can actually see to focus.
As for results, the D810/Otis is sharper and the X1D/90mm is less sharp, but still just sharp enough to be usable. The problem with focusing on the X1D, if I press the magnify button it goes up to a certain point, but no farther. There may be a way to go to a higher maginfication, but I have not found it (I probably have not yet found a lot of things on the X1D). And the focus-by-wire on the X1D is so touchy that even the slightest move is often too much, but I “CAN” do it. I can focus.
In the above case, the ability to focus and see in LiveView on the X1D makes it the camera for this particular “darker” environment, simply because the D810 can’t really see. Yes, I could get a flashlight to focus with and then turn it off, but there is a point where the work being done is not worth the work being done, etc.
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Michael can you post some similar shots taken with the D810 and the X1d so to understand the difference you are referring to?
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I can't really understand if the camera is really slow or just slow in comparison with a DsLR.
I don't expect its AF to be nikon/canon like, so the question is: does its AF impair its use under normal conditions? Internet (FB X1D user group) is full of people complaining about its slow AF and the impossibility to get the focus right.
Thanks for your answers
AF speed is not a problem for me. Maybe because I run X1D in MF mode with back-button focus (same way I work with all of my cameras). The AF speed may bother you more if you couple it to the shutter button. Do not have any problems getting autofocus right.
Best advice would be to try it out yourself.
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I've posted a more complete review of the X1D on my Medium page. (https://medium.com/@johnmireles/hasselblad-x1d-camera-review-a69bbf21b249) It may not be technical enough for many of you, but it covers a more of my experience and thoughts on this camera.
In my experience, the camera does a great job at focusing. The AF is pretty darn good most of the time. Manual focus is fantastic. The zoom feature on the EVF allows for spot on focusing and it's really easy to use. Focus is much more reliable than that of my H5 and my D810.
I haven't done a head to head comparison between the D810 and the X1D for sharpness, but in looking at the files, there's a level of detail and sharpness there that I'm not used to seeing in my Nikon files.
The one big drawback to the Hasselblad however: The service. If you have to send your camera off to Sweden for repairs, you're screwed. My H5 has been out of my hands for going on three months now due to a damaged IR filter. It's supposedly awaiting a QC check before getting sent out - but it's been in that status now for two weeks. It's completely ridiculous that a company that specializes in professional cameras can have a repair system that keeps cameras out of the hands of working pros for so long. This just tells me that they're underinvested in service likely because they are trying to save money. This is not a good sign in regards to the health of the company. It also really sucks if you're photographer trying to do your job. >:(
If you're on the fence between the two cameras (Fuji and Hasselblad), consider that you can easily go a quarter of the year or longer without your camera if your Hasselblad goes down. Not sure about Fuji but I've never heard of such stories from their repair department.
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Michael can you post some similar shots taken with the D810 and the X1d so to understand the difference you are referring to?
It's not the resulting images; I can live with that. It is here the process of taking them with the poor LiveView of the D810 as compared with the Live View of the X1D.
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I haven't done a head to head comparison between the D810 and the X1D for sharpness, but in looking at the files, there's a level of detail and sharpness there that I'm not used to seeing in my Nikon files.
Depends on the lenses you are using. I am using the Zeiss Otus series and they are definitely better than files produced with the lenses I have (90mm and 45mm) on the X1D.
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Thanks for your feedback, I feel better now ;D
Next Saturday, I'll test both the GFX and the X1D for a couple of hours. My aim is to support my decision to put my money on Hasselblad.
As to the camera service, at present I can't comment; btw I'm from Italy and hopefully the closer you are the less it takes the repair service;)
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The problem with focusing on the X1D, if I press the magnify button it goes up to a certain point, but no farther. There may be a way to go to a higher maginfication, but I have not found it (I probably have not yet found a lot of things on the X1D). And the focus-by-wire on the X1D is so touchy that even the slightest move is often too much, but I “CAN” do it. I can focus.
Go to the General Settings section of the Menu system. Select Display, then Live View. Under Zoom Level, you can check 50% or 100%. Select 100%.
NTB: By pressing the Soft Button marked with the * next to the LCD when you are in Live View, you can go into and out of Magnified Live view without touching the focus ring on the lens.
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Depends on the lenses you are using. I am using the Zeiss Otus series and they are definitely better than files produced with the lenses I have (90mm and 45mm) on the X1D.
What *are* you shooting that makes the D810's sensor better than the X1D?
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What *are* you shooting that makes the D810's sensor better than the X1D?
I keep saying that it is the "lenses," not the sensor.
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I am likely about to switch my main camera platform to either the X1D or GFX and have been reading just about everything I can on the Internet (and looking at images) before buying into one or the other platform. As a result, I am beginning to become a believer that the X1D is superior for my needs (landscapes, short hikes, macros, a little street work).
BUT one big thing weighing on my mind is future proofing. Having flipped around from Nikon, Canon and Sony over the years, I know well there's real costs and inconveniences from switching -- lenses, flashes, L plates, mechanics, etc.
In this regard, in a recent interview with Hassleblad's CEO, Perry Oosting about the X1D (see http://www.digitalrev.com/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-hasselblads-new-x1d), Mr. Oosting stated "We have no plans to put [a 100MP sensor] into that camera. So the existing 100-MP sensor on the market will remain as an exclusive for the H6D-100C." The implication, to me at least, is that Hasselblad may not soon if ever upgrade the camera back to higher resolutions. On the contrary, Fuji states explicitly that their new GFX lenses are designed for 100 megapixel sensors (see e.g., http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujinon_lens_gf63mmf28_r_wr/), the implication seemingly being that they plan to offer 100MP backs in the future.
That is perhaps the main issue holding me back from the H1D. We buy into systems, not cameras. And granted currently the Hassy may have somewhat better IQ (everything to me), but from images I've scrutinized, it's not all THAT much better, especially given headaches a year or two from now I might suffer when Fuji comes out with a 100MP back and Hasselblad stands pat.
Anyone else struggling with this one?
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In this regard, in a recent interview with Hassleblad's CEO, Perry Oosting about the X1D (see http://www.digitalrev.com/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-hasselblads-new-x1d), Mr. Oosting stated "We have no plans to put [a 100MP sensor] into that camera. So the existing 100-MP sensor on the market will remain as an exclusive for the H6D-100C." The implication, to me at least, is that Hasselblad may not soon if ever upgrade the camera back to higher resolutions.
At this moment Fuji has no 100MP back Camera as Hasselblad does with the 32.000$ Hasselblad H6D-100c. I can imagine Perry Oosting does not want to cannibalize the sale of this camera.
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I am likely about to switch my main camera platform to either the X1D or GFX and have been reading just about everything I can on the Internet (and looking at images) before buying into one or the other platform. As a result, I am beginning to become a believer that the X1D is superior for my needs (landscapes, short hikes, macros, a little street work).
BUT one big thing weighing on my mind is future proofing. Having flipped around from Nikon, Canon and Sony over the years, I know well there's real costs and inconveniences from switching -- lenses, flashes, L plates, mechanics, etc.
In this regard, in a recent interview with Hassleblad's CEO, Perry Oosting about the X1D (see http://www.digitalrev.com/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-hasselblads-new-x1d), Mr. Oosting stated "We have no plans to put [a 100MP sensor] into that camera. So the existing 100-MP sensor on the market will remain as an exclusive for the H6D-100C." The implication, to me at least, is that Hasselblad may not soon if ever upgrade the camera back to higher resolutions. On the contrary, Fuji states explicitly that their new GFX lenses are designed for 100 megapixel sensors (see e.g., http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujinon_lens_gf63mmf28_r_wr/), the implication seemingly being that they plan to offer 100MP backs in the future.
That is perhaps the main issue holding me back from the H1D. We buy into systems, not cameras. And granted currently the Hassy may have somewhat better IQ (everything to me), but from images I've scrutinized, it's not all THAT much better, especially given headaches a year or two from now I might suffer when Fuji comes out with a 100MP back and Hasselblad stands pat.
Anyone else struggling with this one?
Might consider the GFX system when Fuji releases central shutter feature for flash sync.
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In this regard, in a recent interview with Hassleblad's CEO, Perry Oosting about the X1D (see http://www.digitalrev.com/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-hasselblads-new-x1d), Mr. Oosting stated "We have no plans to put [a 100MP sensor] into that camera. So the existing 100-MP sensor on the market will remain as an exclusive for the H6D-100C." The implication, to me at least, is that Hasselblad may not soon if ever upgrade the camera back to higher resolutions. On the contrary, Fuji states explicitly that their new GFX lenses are designed for 100 megapixel sensors (see e.g., http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujinon_lens_gf63mmf28_r_wr/), the implication seemingly being that they plan to offer 100MP backs in the future.
What he was saying is that the large MF sensor used in the H6D-100c will never fit in the X1D.
He was not commenting on possible use of future higher resolution sensors in the 33x44mm format. sony has just announced a plan to release a 100 mp 33x44mm sensor and I am sure that it will be in the X2D when available... and also in the GFX.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'm facing the same issue of Brad P from the opposite side: I strongly hope that Hasselblad does not come out with a X2D in a year.
Whereas Fuji is well known for taking care of existing products through continuous firmware update, my concern with Hasselblad is that they could go with the sony approach that is replacing a camera every year and half instead of improving it.
I changed so many systems in the last 4 years (leica, nikon, sony and canon) that I'd like to stand with one a bit longer...
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What he was saying is that the large MF sensor used in the H6D-100c will never fit in the X1D.
He was not commenting on possible use of future higher resolution sensors in the 33x44mm format. sony has just announced a plan to release a 100 mp 33x44mm sensor and I am sure that it will be in the X2D when available... and also in the GFX.
Yes, you probably are right, and as a practical matter that makes good sense (although the article still seems at least ambiguously written on future intentions with the line). I suppose I would feel a bit better if I saw some marketing material or other company statements stating that the Nittoh manufactured lenses were designed With 100MP sensors in mind, which I haven't seen in the specs or any other material I have found anyway. The MTF charts look pretty good.
I gotta say I am swooned by the looks of the X1D. I know I shouldn't be ....
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At this moment Fuji has no 100MP back Camera as Hasselblad does with the 32.000$ Hasselblad H6D-100c. I can imagine Perry Oosting does not want to cannibalize the sale of this camera.
Agreed. Your $ sign makes the point better than I did about what Hasselblad's decision tree might look like during the next few years.
Here is some info on sensors scheduled to come from Sony over the next few years. https://petapixel.com/2017/04/04/sony-plans-release-150mp-medium-format-sensor-2018/ The 100MP 44x33mm sensor presumably will become available to Fuji, Hasselblad, Pentax and any other manufacturers that might enter the MF market. Hasselblad might be forced by the market to put that sensor in the X1D to compete in the lower end MF market -- if they choose to continue to compete in that market. Then they and Phase One's high end MF cameras might need to move into the 55x41mm 150MP sensor. Pure meaningless speculation on my part maybe. But I'd still feel more comfortable spending the $20K or so I'm about to spend with some kind of rudimentary roadmap articulated by Hasselblad. I get the sense from my readings that Fuji is more committed at least publicly with aggressively advancing its mirrorless MF platform. After all, Fuji has nothing it will have to cannibalize.
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Any suggestion on the lens choice?
My idea would be to get the 30 and the 90 and the 63 once available in the future. However, at least in Italy, the 30 is a scarce resource whereas the 45 is largely available.
Should I get just one lens to start with, which one?
What's your thoughts on this?
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Any suggestion on the lens choice?
My idea would be to get the 30 and the 90 and the 63 once available in the future. However, at least in Italy, the 30 is a scarce resource whereas the 45 is largely available.
Should I get just one lens to start with, which one?
What's your thoughts on this?
Pick your favorite focal length and roll with it
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My favorite is the 63 (50 equivalent in fullframe) :(
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I wouldn't worry about whether Hasselblad will or won't upgrade the sensor to more megapixels in the future. Whatever they do, you can bet that they will respond to market conditions. If their competition upgrades to a 100mp sensor, you can bet that they'll either want to match that or beat them to it - if they feel that the market is there. None of these companies operate in a vacuum.
In response to what lens to get, I'm loving the 45mm. I'm a wide angle kind of guy though. A normal lens is long for me.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-mM9bxvF/0/O/John_Mireles-Neighbors_South-2110.jpg) X1D: ISO 3200, 45mm lens - 1/20 sec, f3.5
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I sent back the Fuji GFX, the Pentax K1, and so on. I also came close to sending the X1D back as well, but I got at least a little breath of fresh air in all this.
I feel I am beginning to understand the X1D and perhaps medium-format cameras in general. I used to have a Mamiya RZ67, which I probably never understood well enough; anyway, I never really learned to use it.
Using the Hasselblad X1D these days, I begin to (perhaps) better understand what the old hands with medium-format cameras have been trying to point out to those of us coming in from the DSLR. For one, these small medium-format cameras like the X1D and GFX are not just the next version of the DSLR, like many of us are looking for. I know that, because Nikon has failed to update the D810, I am looking for the next version of that camera, if not from Nikon, then from somewhere else.
However, what is starting to sink in or at least come through is something a little different from what I imagined the X1D (or GFX) is all about. We can imagine that cameras like the X1D are the next step beyond full-frame DSLRs, as I did, but this is really a different kind of camera, not simply an extension of the full-frame DSLR. I am starting to understand that.
No, the X1D (at least so far) is not as “sharp” as what I can get with the Nikon D810. That’s true. It’s a different take on photography, one with some subtlety, at least for me. It is hard to put into words, but I will try, so please don’t shoot the messenger. I am just trying to grasp the nature of these little medium-format mirrorless cameras, and to get with the program.
There is somehow more space with the 50 Mpx sensor, and certainly more light. I have never seen as gentle a roll-off for highlights than with the X1D. There is something similar with the Nikon D810 blacks at ISO 64 that is magic. This I know. But I can see there is a corresponding thing happening with highlights and the Hasselblad X1D.
My question now is how to learn to use this particular approach to light. At least I am respectful and realize I have been barking up the wrong tree by trying make the X1D the future of full-frame DSLRS. What’s new for me is that I don’t (yet) know how best to use the lightness and space of the X1D images. At least I know I don’t know.
The images from the X1D are not as sharp, and they seem to need a little extra contrast. But most of all, at least right now for me, they need more time for me to work with the process of taking images with this camera. Focus has to be done (and checked) very deliberately. What I call in focus-stacking “short stacks” (a few layers only in a stacked image) seem to lend themselves very naturally to the X1D. Larger and longer stacks do not.
My whole approach with the X1D has to be more like a movie set, where infinite pains are made to arrange an impression before we make the impression by actually taking a photo. It reminds me of the old view cameras and, of course, it is all about process. Process in using the X1D is as much a part of the result as any resulting images could be. And attention to such process, very careful attention, results in the kind of images I didn’t even know I was looking for. Yet, I like them.
So the Hasselblad X1D speeds up my process in photography by further slowing me down with that very same process, so that the resulting images improve as the process improves through more painstaking. I am sure other photographers will push other envelopes, although this really is not a sports or event camera, but more a still-life camera, at least for me.
In other words, this may well be what I have been looking for, but it is not what I expected. Expectations cannot define, and you can’t expect to find what you expect. I get that now and that is the future.
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I sent back the Fuji GFX, the Pentax K1, and so on. I also came close to sending the X1D back as well, but I got at least a little breath of fresh air in all this.
I feel I am beginning to understand the X1D and perhaps medium-format cameras in general. I used to have a Mamiya RZ67, which I probably never understood well enough; anyway, I never really learned to use it.
Using the Hasselblad X1D these days, I begin to (perhaps) better understand what the old hands with medium-format cameras have been trying to point out to those of us coming in from the DSLR. For one, these small medium-format cameras like the X1D and GFX are not just the next version of the DSLR, like many of us are looking for. I know that, because Nikon has failed to update the D810, I am looking for the next version of that camera, if not from Nikon, then from somewhere else.
However, what is starting to sink in or at least come through is something a little different from what I imagined the X1D (of GFX) is all about. We can imagine that cameras like the X1D are the next step beyond full-frame DSLRs, as I did, but this is really a different kind of camera, not simply an extension of the full-frame DSLR. I am starting to understand that.
No, the X1D (at least so far) is not as “sharp” as what I can get with the Nikon D810. That’s true. It’s a different take on photography, one with some subtlety, at least for me. It is hard to put into words, but I will try, so please don’t shoot the messenger. I am just trying to grasp the nature of these little medium-format mirrorless cameras, and to get with the program.
There is somehow more space with the 50 Mpx sensor, and certainly more light. I have never seen as gentle a roll-off for highlights than with the X1D. There is something similar with the Nikon D810 blacks at ISO 64 that is magic. This I know. But I can see there is a corresponding thing happening with highlights and the Hasselblad X1D.
My question now is how to learn to use this particular approach to light. At least I am respectful and realize I have been barking up the wrong tree by trying make the X1D the future of full-frame DSLRS. What’s new for me is that I don’t (yet) know how best to use the lightness and space of the X1D images. At least I know I don’t know.
The images from the X1D are not as sharp, and they seem to need a little extra contrast. But most of all, at least right now for me, they need more time for me to work with the process of taking images with this camera. Focus has to be done (and checked) very deliberately. What I call in focus-stacking “short stacks” (a few layers only in a stacked image) seem to lend themselves very naturally to the X1D. Larger and longer stacks do not.
My whole approach with the X1D has to be more like a movie set, where infinite pains are made to arrange an impression before we make the impression by actually taking a photo. It reminds me of the old view cameras and, of course, it is all about process. Process in using the X1D is as much a part of the result as any resulting images could be. And attention to such process, very careful attention, results in the kind of images I didn’t even know I was looking for. Yet, I like them.
So the Hasselblad X1D speeds up my process in photography by further slowing me down with that very same process, so that the resulting images improve as the process improves through more painstaking. I am sure other photographers will push other envelopes, although this really is not a sports or event camera, but more a still-life camera, at least for me.
In other words, this may well be what I have been looking for, but it is not what I expected. Expectations cannot define, and you can’t expect to find what you expect. I get that now and that is the future.
Welcome to perfectionism!
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The images from the X1D are not as sharp, and they seem to need a little extra contrast. But most of all, at least right now for me, they need more time for me to work with the process of taking images with this camera. Focus has to be done (and checked) very deliberately. What I call in focus-stacking “short stacks” (a few layers only in a stacked image) seem to lend themselves very naturally to the X1D. Larger and longer stacks do not.
My whole approach with the X1D has to be more like a movie set, where infinite pains are made to arrange an impression before we make the impression by actually taking a photo. It reminds me of the old view cameras and, of course, it is all about process. Process in using the X1D is as much a part of the result as any resulting images could be. And attention to such process, very careful attention, results in the kind of images I didn’t even know I was looking for. Yet, I like them.
Hi Michael - huge fan of your work. Years ago your website and pics inspired me to dive pretty deeply into focus stacking. That cost me a bit of dough (but was worth it!). I've also had great results with those techniques on more intermediate range subjects and backgrounds.
In that regard, I've been trying to figure out how well the H1D or GFX would do with focus stacking and can't find anything very helpful. You say short stacks work well with the X1D. If I remember correctly you're talking about 5 or 15 shots through a flower, for example, and not 50 or so shots through extraordinary detailed subjects. Is that about right? I'm sure any additional thoughts you might share on how well the X1D or GFX does focus stacking generally, and any limitations you have found, will end up helpful to a number of readers here.
I share the slow down points too. I forgot the name of a photographer I read about years ago whose practice for years was to take only one shot a day...
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Hi MichIn that regard, I've been trying to figure out how well the H1D or GFX would do with focus stacking and can't find anything very helpful. You say short stacks work well with the X1D. If I remember correctly you're talking about 5 or 15 shots through a flower, for example, and not 50 or so shots through extraordinary detailed subjects. Is that about right? I'm sure any additional thoughts you might share on how well the X1D or GFX does focus stacking generally, and any limitations you have found, will end up helpful to a number of readers here.
I am thinking of 3-6 images to make a short stack. If the forthcoming 120mm macro lens is very sharp, then perhaps more regular (longer) stacks will be dictated.
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I (believe) I have finished many weeks of testing the Hasselblad X1D and the Fujifilm GFX, both frontier-pushing cameras. As for which one I will keep, the answer is neither. I have talked about the GFX before, so I will just leave some comments on the Hasselblad X1D. I don’t think my particular problems with these cameras will probably affect most other photographers, but here they are.
The problem I have with the Hasselblad X1D has to do with lenses. At this point, it does not have a focal-plane shutter, although there was some talk that it could be added to firmware, but I consider chances of that slim to none.
What this means is that the lenses that have been announced up to now by Hasselblad are f/3.5, not the fastest lenses. And lacking that speed means that if I want to focus-stack by painting focus with the lens wide open where I want it to be (while leaving the rest go to bokeh), with f/3.5 I don’t really have the kind of blurry bokeh that a fast lens (f/1.4) can produce. So, photos taken with the X1D are going to have the background more in focus than I like. Another point is that the lenses for the X1D I have (90mm and 45mm) are sharp, but not Zeiss Otis sharp or, for that matter, all that well corrected. They are fine for many tasks, I will agree. I have been spoiled by the Zeiss Otus lenses, the APO Zeiss 135mm, and a rather large group of industrial lenses that I have collected over the years, all of which can’t be mounted on the X1D.
As mentioned, the Hasselblad lenses are “sharp enough,” just barely for what I like to do, but if I look too close, they are not really, really THAT sharp. I can see the limit (and the difference) and I focus with LiveView magnified (and check aperture preview, etc.) very carefully. So, right now, that’s it for sharpness. Is that something I can live with? I know that many people are happy with the degree of sharpness offered by the XCD lenses, but am I? I go back and forth. Sure, I can put up with it, but does it make me happy? No. It makes me feel resigned or limited. That’s just me, but I found it an inhibiting factor.
Part of me says, forget-about-it, and just take some photos. They will be sharp enough. But there is another part of me that keeps nagging me with “It’s not really sharp, but just barely sharp enough.” Given that bokeh depends on its contrast with sharpness elsewhere in the photo, for me this is kind of a losing proposition. Anyway, that war is still waging inside me. I like the X1D. It is easy-to-use, clean, small, great haptics, everything I could ask for, but it does not take all the lenses I have collected over the years that are highly corrected (APO). It’s that simple. I know. This should have been clear to me from the start, but I always have to see for myself what I can and cannot do. There was a chance that all would be copasetic. It did not turn out that way.
For me that means I have to use all of my APO lenses elsewhere and with another camera. I can see that, but for me that makes the X1D a very expensive “alternate” camera to my Nikon D810 and other technical cameras. The X1D then becomes a large money sink against getting whatever new camera that either Nikon or Sony will debut in the next year. I can’t afford to have all the new cameras that pop up.
I also carefully tried the Pentax K1 and the Fuji GFX, looking for Mr. Good-Camera (for my work) each of which also had problems I found these problems hindered what my work. All are great systems, but not for what I do. And so I wait for Sony or Nikon to debut something that I can perhaps work with. I will, in the meantime, continue to work with the D810 and the Sony AR7 II in a variety of ways. That’s my two-cents.
Here is a photo taken with the Hasselblad X1D, an example of what kind of photos I tend to do.
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What this means is that the lenses that have been announced up to now by Hasselblad are f/3.5, not the fastest lenses. And lacking that speed means that if I want to focus-stack by painting focus with the lens wide open where I want it to be (while leaving the rest go to bokeh), with f/3.5 I don’t really have the kind of blurry bokeh that a fast lens (f/1.4) can produce. So, photos taken with the X1D are going to have the background more in focus than I like. Another point is that the lenses for the X1D I have (90mm and 45mm) are sharp, but not Zeiss Otis sharp or, for that matter, all that well corrected. They are fine for many tasks, I will agree. I have been spoiled by the Zeiss Otus lenses, the APO Zeiss 135mm, and a rather large group of industrial lenses that I have collected over the years, all of which can’t be mounted on the X1D.
Given that you want focus stacking, more bokeh, and aren't taking the GFX or X1D, have you considered the Phase One XF? It has focus stacking built in, and with a full-frame 645 sensor like an IQ3 100mp (at the high end) or refurb IQ160 or refurb IQ260 (https://digitaltransitions.com/product/phase-one-iq260-m-mount/) (on the low end) you can get some very creamy bokeh.
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Given that you want focus stacking, more bokeh, and aren't taking the GFX or X1D, have you considered the Phase One XF? It has focus stacking built in, and with a full-frame 645 sensor like an IQ3 100mp (at the high end) or refurb IQ160 or refurb IQ260 (https://digitaltransitions.com/product/phase-one-iq260-m-mount/) (on the low end) you can get some very creamy bokeh.
The question is can I use alternate lenses?
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The question is can I use alternate lenses?
On a tech camera...
If you have the budget for an IQ3 100mp you can use just about any lens ever made; it can use a fully electronic shutter (https://digitaltransitions.com/iq3-100mp-electronic-shutter/). Whether any given lens will be sharp, cover a full 645 frame sensor, etc is of course a separate question. Slap it on an Universalis or Actus or similar and you can use the rail markings for nice consistent focus stacking, and best yet the lens won't move so point of view will stay identical.
If you're using another back (e.g. IQ260) then you'll need a lens with a shutter built in on a tech camera.
On an XF...
The XF has a focal plane shutter and can use any lens you can get to mount on it. For infinity focus you need lenses that were designed for Mamiya 645, or for 6x6 or larger (e.g. Hassy 200, Hassy 500, Pentax 67, Pentacon 67 etc). Since these lenses will not have autofocus on the XF you cannot focus stack automatically, but you can of course do as you'd do with any other camera and simply turn the focus of the lens manually.
If you use a Mamiya/Phase/Schneider autofocus lens then you gain automatic focus stacking. It's very helpful, especially on tuning or repeating a stack (e.g. you decide you need another frame in the stack, you just turn one knob to increase the number of frames and then push one button to start the stack (with the new number of frames).
I'd love to see a focus stack done with the Schneider 130/2 Cinelux Projector lens that I highlighted in my Big Buttery Bokeh series (https://digitaltransitions.com/fast-portrait-lens-phase-one/).
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I'd love to see a focus stack done with the Schneider 130/2 Cinelux Projector lens that I highlighted in my Big Buttery Bokeh series (https://digitaltransitions.com/fast-portrait-lens-phase-one/).
Interesting information. Thanks. I will study it. Of all those lenses you discuss at your link, which are better corrected or equal to the Zeiss Otus lenses?
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One more thing to report and see if maybe there's a workaround. When shooting with strobes and exposure preview is turned off, the EVF is heavily affected if by white subjects. For example, when shooting a subject with a white shirt, the EVF goes very dark thinking that the scene is overly bright. I've tried using spot metering and then placing the focus point on the face (which isn't so light) but that doesn't help any. It's bad enough that I can hardly make out the detail on the subject's face.
When shooting a darker toned subject, the EVF doesn't blow it out so this only seems to be an issue with light colored subjects.
John
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The Eleventh Hour with the X1D
Recently, after about ninth months of studying and waiting, I finally decided that the Hasselblad X1D was not ready for Prime Time, at least for my work. And since I can’t afford all the cameras I would like to have, after weeks of testing, I decided to return the X1D while I still could for full credit.
I carefully packed the X1D and the various lenses in their original packing, carefully putting each piece in a plastic bag and otherwise preparing it for the UPS truck. The shop I purchased it from was on Jewish holiday, so I had to wait an extra day in order to cancel the return and put the packages in transit. I could have used the X1D for another day but, no, I had made up my mind, so instead I spent that last day shooting with my trusted Nikon D810 and some of the various great lenses i have, like the Otus 55mm APO, the El Nikkor 105mm APO, and the legendary CRT Nikkor.
Since I often stack focus, the post-processing work always takes much longer than taking the actual photographs. Well, I did all that and when I was done, the photos looked pretty good. As I looked through my photos for my favorites, it hit me that something was missing here. It took some time to figure out, but finally I decided that what wasn’t there was a certain lightness of feeling, call it luminosity or whatever. It was not sharpness, because the lenses for my Nikon are sharper than the X1D. I probably can’t find words to describe it, but it was a certain spaciousness or brightness or simply “light” that was missing in my Nikon photos. That was a surprise.
Despite whatever warts or failings I had found in the Hasselblad X1D, there was some quality that it has that could not be denied and I was suddenly finding myself not denying that fact. “Parting is such sweet sorrow” as Shakespeare said. A certain kind of sadness came over me about having to say goodbye to this lovely camera, even though it did not do everything I needed it to do. Still, there was something about the X1D that I suddenly missed. It was almost like being condemned to not stretch any farther than I had with my Nikon D810. Ouch!
Yet, it was clear to me that I could not afford to keep the X1D, in case Nikon or Sony came out with something in the same ballpark that would work better for what I do. I must say I was a little depressed by all this and suddenly felt limited by my Nikon D810 for the first time. This kind of thinking and feeling went on for some time and it was no fun at all.
Then I realized that I had a lot of high-end video equipment sitting in my main studio that was depreciating these days at lightning speed. I don’t use it and pretty soon it will be worth just pennies on the dollar. I’m just going to sell that and be done with it, and so I am. I am keeping my Hasselblad X1D, if for no other reason than to keep that little bit of light it offers in my life. So, there you have it, a 180-degree flip on my part. The Hasselblad stays in the family of cameras I use.
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Michael,
Thanks for keeping us entertained with your changes of heart. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Michael,
Thanks for keeping us entertained with your changes of heart. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
Glad I'm good for something. :)
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The X1D is really slow and a pain to use, but the sensor is really good, even when compared to D810 and Otus.
I'm still thinking whether the IQ is worth the hassle...
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The X1D is really slow and a pain to use, but the sensor is really good, even when compared to D810 and Otus.
I'm still thinking whether the IQ is worth the hassle...
It is not that slow; depends on what you are doing. I find it easy to use and no more painful than the D810, the A&RII, and so on. But then, I am used to the pain of careful setup, etc. As for the IQ, I find the color good and better than the D810... so far, but I am still learning. However, I like it, but it is not an FF DSLR. It is a small MF camera, with all that entails.
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The X1D is really slow and a pain to use, but the sensor is really good, even when compared to D810 and Otus.
I'm still thinking whether the IQ is worth the hassle...
Slow and a pain compared to what?
- Compared to MF film cameras? No. Manual focus and winding film is no speed walk session in the park.
- Compared to Hasselblad Hx series? Far from it. The H series is a slow-to-do-everything overweight brick by comparison.
- Compared to the D810? Yes, the X1D is slower to autofocus and shoot. But it's less bulky and actually lighter.
- Compared to every other MF system out there? I haven't tested nor used them all, but from what I've seen, the X1D is the speediest and lightest of the bunch.
Despite the X1D's quirks, I find it easier or at least easy to use than most DSLR's, albeit slower. It's a different sort of camera so it does take some getting used to. If you only pick up and use it for ten minutes at the camera store, you probably will find it awkward. I'd suggest using it for a full day before coming to conclusions on its usability.
Medium format in general is definitely slower and a pain compared to most small format systems. For most folks, the difference in IQ is probably not worth it relative to the price either. If you've got the cash and you want that last little bit of IQ, then it makes sense (maybe).
John
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i was really excited when the X1D was announced, i had just re-organized a lot of older files and was amazed how all my older DMF files from aptus, P20 and P40 backs (all with a variety of mama and rollei cameras) just popped out and just looked different then what i was getting with everything else (incl. my A7RII)....so i had just gone through that and was actually looking at the H6 (just for a short, very short moment) and then the X1D was announced and then the GFX....before switching to digital i almost exclusively shot fuji (680, 690, 645) and have always like their smaller digital cameras.....the size and in lens shutter steered me towards the X1D right away....until i tried it...maybe the problem is that compared to the H system it is fast? and the AF is usable? i mean the size and handling is amazing, i really liked the software...but AF is slow, slow, slow....being forced to move the AF point with the 2 wheels is idiotic....clearly an afterthought and a victim of making the camera small and simple....the worst to me was though that i shot the X1D with 45mm head to head with A7RII and 24-70 GM and i just did not see that much difference in the files....i understand we are splitting hair here anyway but it just did not give me that instant pop that i was even used to seeing with my old Phase files.....
so i benched that idea.....and then the GFX files started appearing....and i reluctantly started looking at them.....
long story short...i own the GFX now...i already figured out how to use my studio and location flash with HS (which was the first reason i did not even think about the fuji) and the AF, while not perfect or sony level is heads and shoulders above anything i have ever used in digital medium format....the body is clunky at first but man....it is nice to have all these dials and things right where you need them....and the software makes it a dream to set the camera up in any way possible....the lenses are maybe the best i have ever used....and just when i thought it could not get better i got the rotating finder attachment....best solution ever...ever...i have dreamed about this...i have used loupes attached to back screens of cameras.....this is just the way things should be....
i understand that this is the X1D thread and i understand that different people have different needs....i shoot people, most of them move around....i wish hasselblad would have put a AF selector nipple on he back (they probably do too)...i am surprised how much better i like the fuji glass over the hasselblad...the same goes for the files....i do understand that fuji is relying on software correction for the final files....but with results like these, i think everybody should....
the X1D with the 45...reminds me of the sony RX1RII (that 42mpix with fixed 35mm) but just the perfect size....and i would get that over any leica right now....but as a system the GFX just works much better for me....
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i was really excited when the X1D was announced, i had just re-organized a lot of older files and was amazed how all my older DMF files from aptus, P20 and P40 backs (all with a variety of mama and rollei cameras) just popped out and just looked different then what i was getting with everything else (incl. my A7RII)....so i had just gone through that and was actually looking at the H6 (just for a short, very short moment) and then the X1D was announced and then the GFX....before switching to digital i almost exclusively shot fuji (680, 690, 645) and have always like their smaller digital cameras.....the size and in lens shutter steered me towards the X1D right away....until i tried it...maybe the problem is that compared to the H system it is fast? and the AF is usable? i mean the size and handling is amazing, i really liked the software...but AF is slow, slow, slow....being forced to move the AF point with the 2 wheels is idiotic....clearly an afterthought and a victim of making the camera small and simple....the worst to me was though that i shot the X1D with 45mm head to head with A7RII and 24-70 GM and i just did not see that much difference in the files....i understand we are splitting hair here anyway but it just did not give me that instant pop that i was even used to seeing with my old Phase files.....
so i benched that idea.....and then the GFX files started appearing....and i reluctantly started looking at them.....
long story short...i own the GFX now...i already figured out how to use my studio and location flash with HS (which was the first reason i did not even think about the fuji) and the AF, while not perfect or sony level is heads and shoulders above anything i have ever used in digital medium format....the body is clunky at first but man....it is nice to have all these dials and things right where you need them....and the software makes it a dream to set the camera up in any way possible....the lenses are maybe the best i have ever used....and just when i thought it could not get better i got the rotating finder attachment....best solution ever...ever...i have dreamed about this...i have used loupes attached to back screens of cameras.....this is just the way things should be....
i understand that this is the X1D thread and i understand that different people have different needs....i shoot people, most of them move around....i wish hasselblad would have put a AF selector nipple on he back (they probably do too)...i am surprised how much better i like the fuji glass over the hasselblad...the same goes for the files....i do understand that fuji is relying on software correction for the final files....but with results like these, i think everybody should....
the X1D with the 45...reminds me of the sony RX1RII (that 42mpix with fixed 35mm) but just the perfect size....and i would get that over any leica right now....but as a system the GFX just works much better for me....
You are right. This post does not belong here.
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You are right. This post does not belong here.
Why do you think so? The OP clearly states his experiences with the X1D and why he didn't like it.
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Why do you think so? The OP clearly states his experiences with the X1D and why he didn't like it.
+1
a typical case of first impressions...
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You are right. This post does not belong here.
I think it just shows how different impressions and needs are.
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
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For what it's worth, my review of the X1D is up on Petapixel. (https://petapixel.com/2017/04/25/hasselblad-x1d-review-expensive-gadget-worthy-performer/)
John
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Hi,
Thanks for sharing!
Best regards
Erik
For what it's worth, my review of the X1D is up on Petapixel. (https://petapixel.com/2017/04/25/hasselblad-x1d-review-expensive-gadget-worthy-performer/)
John
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For what it's worth, my review of the X1D is up on Petapixel. (https://petapixel.com/2017/04/25/hasselblad-x1d-review-expensive-gadget-worthy-performer/)
John
I enjoyed it and am also busy learning the X1D. I have never used flash (or... don't use it except for family photos), but I can see that the leaf shutters used outdoors in sunlight for fill flash could actually improve my work. I hate to be such a dummy, but can anyone tell me in a simple way how to best use fill-flash with the X1D outdoors for close-up nature photography... please and thank you. Michael
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Don't do macro, but, one option of many that won't have you getting in way of own light:
A used Profoto AcuteB and an Acute 2/D4 Ringflash. Cost next to nothing (now) thanks to newer TTL-ready units, dials-down low, small and light, batteries last a good while. Non-OEM SLA batteries are cheap as chips and re-celling older tired batteries takes 10 minutes w/a soldering gun.
Flash duration is not the fastest at HIGHER power, so at 1/2000 sync and HIGHER power you will lose some light (sync faster than duration), but the AcuteBs duration at lower levels is very fast and given will be close up, won't need much power. Can also be used while charging (lasts all day)
Can then just diffuse and/or use cinefoil as is and/or painted white on one side (to be able to shape) to block off parts of ring to get light from sides or top & bottom only, create some aide bounce, etc. If want even less light than minimum power allows, tape an ND gel on the RF to drop power by stop(s) desired.
Profoto also sells indirect reflectors in white and silver for say 'portait distances' and a close-up silver one that mount to the RF to create indirect fill (think a beauty dish for ringflash). RF makes a nice fill as light is 'there' but direction is often not discernable.
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Hi Michael,
I often use a small portable flash with a small umbrella for shooting flowers outside. This may be a typical sample:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Close-up/i-RSsP3MX/1/cf8383d4/X3/20150502-CF046587-X3.jpg)
This may be typical of such a setup:
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13179127_1299752113372624_6628481924110014920_n.jpg?oh=b146c4f2f5527c88d185092971fb9d0f&oe=59BF05A9)
Best regards
Erik
I enjoyed it and am also busy learning the X1D. I have never used flash (or... don't use it except for family photos), but I can see that the leaf shutters used outdoors in sunlight for fill flash could actually improve my work. I hate to be such a dummy, but can anyone tell me in a simple way how to best use fill-flash with the X1D outdoors for close-up nature photography... please and thank you. Michael
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Hi Michael,
I often use a small portable flash with a small umbrella for shooting flowers outside. This may be a typical sample:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Close-up/i-RSsP3MX/1/cf8383d4/X3/20150502-CF046587-X3.jpg)
This may be typical of such a setup:
Best regards
Erik
Thanks. Is this with the X1D and how does this relate to learning to use leaf shutters and flash.
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Hi Michael,
It is about using flash outdoors. It is absolutely not about the X1D.
I have been shooting both my Hasselblad 555/ELD and the Sony A7rII with this kind of setup. The Sony is limited to something like 1/160s with the setup I have. On the Hassy I can go to 1/500s and sometimes it is an advantage.
Best regards
Erik
Hi Michael,
I often use a small portable flash with a small umbrella for shooting flowers outside. This may be a typical sample:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Close-up/i-RSsP3MX/1/cf8383d4/X3/20150502-CF046587-X3.jpg)
This may be typical of such a setup:
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13179127_1299752113372624_6628481924110014920_n.jpg?oh=b146c4f2f5527c88d185092971fb9d0f&oe=59BF05A9)
Best regards
Erik
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Hi Michael,
It is about using flash outdoors. It is absolutely not about the X1D.
I have been shooting both my Hasselblad 555/ELD and the Sony A7rII with this kind of setup. The Sony is limited to something like 1/160s with the setup I have. On the Hassy I can go to 1/500s and sometimes it is an advantage.
Best regards
Erik
I am trying to understand the "advantage" of leaf shutters now that I have some. And just how are they used. This may be too much for this thread, and perhaps someone has written a tutorial on close-up, outdoors, sunshine, and leaf shutters. I am so ignorant in this regard. Thanks for bearing with me.
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Hi Michael,
Leaf shutters allow to change the balance beween flash light and the surround. Electronic flash can deliver very intense light with very short duration. Leaf shutter expose the while sensor within a short duration. So, a flash may put all it's power on the sensor while the leaf shutter is fully open.
Focal Plane shutters are only fully open at X-shutter sync time. Any shorter time results in partial exposure or wasted power. So, shooting outdoors leaf shutters have some advantage, especially if you want to overpower the sun and let artificial light to dominate. Would you ever want that? Good question!
With fill light it is a bit different. In that case we would let natural light dominate but fill in shadow detail. That may not need all available power from the flash.
Best regards
Erik
I am trying to understand the "advantage" of leaf shutters now that I have some. And just how are they used. This may be too much for this thread, and perhaps someone has written a tutorial on close-up, outdoors, sunshine, and leaf shutters. I am so ignorant in this regard. Thanks for bearing with me.
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Sorry if this is just stating the obvious, but maybe a short recap of the theory is worthwhile:
- Flash is so fast that flash exposure (fill light) does not depend on shutter speed
- Set lens aperture to get desired fill light, according to flash strength and distance
- Then set shutter speed to get desired main light, according to ambient illumination level
- If you want flash to overpower sunlight, fast shutter speed is helpful or necessary
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Sorry if this is just stating the obvious, but maybe a short recap of the theory is worthwhile:
- Flash is so fast that flash exposure (fill light) does not depend on shutter speed
- Set lens aperture to get desired fill light, according to flash strength and distance
- Then set shutter speed to get desired main light, according to ambient illumination level
- If you want flash to overpower sunlight, fast shutter speed is helpful or necessary
Good summary.
We could discuss the first point a bit at the high power outputs, but it doesn't change the basic philosophy (it just makes the actual usefulness of 1/2000s sync speed a bit more questionable since even a Profoto Pro-10 has a flash duration of 1/1000 sec at full power, meaning that max power won't be achivable).
Cheers,
Bernard
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i would just like to add here that HSS (high speed sync) works amazingly well these days...which means all focal plane shutters can be used with pretty much any shutter speed the camera is capable of.....most systems use pulsating strobe which means that the GN (or the power output) of the flash gets lower the higher the shutter speed....
broncolor uses a different way...they can it HS (hyper sync) and they go the other way, the pack actually produces a longer flash duration and just times the shutter to open and close when the output (which is on a curve) is highest.....this way eats a lot of power but the flash color stays more consistent.....there is still a chance of a top to bottom (or side to side) gradation because of sensor readout.....
of course in lens shutters don't have any of these issues.....just set the exposure and shoot....
there is some information out of how the in lens shutters of the X1D lenses impact the bokeh? or at least OOF highlights?
i read over that article and looked at the samples provided....i am surprised because i have shot with in lens shutters for years (all large format lenses obviously have them) but i have never noticed this with any other system?
either way....once we get all digital global shutters none of this should be an issue regardless....
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I may have got it wrong, but the guy who designed the original Elinchrom flashes - and the ones I used - told me that flash duration is *shorter* when the flash is set to higher power. I know, it sounds counterintuitive, and I may have it wrong.
Edmund
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Perhaps someone without an axe to grind here (and you know who you are) can explain this all for me. I had always understood that leaf shutter lenses were a very significant feature with medium format cameras, and Fuji has gone out of its way to assure the buyers of the GFX that a leaf shutter capability would be available by using Hassy HC lenses with an adapter (albeit with no AF). Yet, I read here and elsewhere that HSS is "just as good" so leaf shutters have essentially become irrelevant. Is this true?
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Hi Michael,
Leaf shutters allow to change the balance beween flash light and the surround. Electronic flash can deliver very intense light with very short duration. Leaf shutter expose the while sensor within a short duration. So, a flash may put all it's power on the sensor while the leaf shutter is fully open.
Focal Plane shutters are only fully open at X-shutter sync time. Any shorter time results in partial exposure or wasted power. So, shooting outdoors leaf shutters have some advantage, especially if you want to overpower the sun and let artificial light to dominate. Would you ever want that? Good question!
With fill light it is a bit different. In that case we would let natural light dominate but fill in shadow detail. That may not need all available power from the flash.
Best regards
Erik
Thanks. I would think that I want only fill light and what it can do to improve photos. Any more about the steps to achieve that would be helpful.
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Hi,
It depends. I would say that a leaf shutter is probably always more flexible with regards to flash. Let's look at some different cases:
Flash is used as fill light.
In this case we let surround light dominate and flash is used to lighten up dark parts. Flash exposure would probably need to be 1-1.5 EV below surround light. In this case exposure could be like f/8 at 1/300s and both FP and LS would work without much problems. High end 24x36 mm gear often has max sync time of 1/300s.
Same as above, but we need short shutter times to freeze motion
HSS would work here, but it would waste some power as the sensor is not exposed at the same time. HSS would probably work.
We want to have flash dominate over surround light
In this scenario we need to use short shutter time to reduce surround light. The short shutter speed will waste flash power when used with HSS.
So, in the first scenario flash would be easy. It may be that some FP shutters are slower than others. My Pentax 67 had 1/30s shutter speed, not very useful with outdoor flash, but 1/300s should be workable often.
The third scenario essentially demands leaf shutters.
Shooting in a studio with dim light electronic flash would dominate over surround at reasonable speeds. So stop motion is achievable with electronic flash using FP shutters.
So, it depends much on the application. I guess that FP camera users are not using a lot of studio light setups in bright sunlight situations.
It is a bit of horses for the courses, but also choosing which course to start the horse on. Horse owners do it all the time…
Best regards
Erik
Perhaps someone without an axe to grind here (and you know who you are) can explain this all for me. I had always understood that leaf shutter lenses were a very significant feature with medium format cameras, and Fuji has gone out of its way to assure the buyers of the GFX that a leaf shutter capability would be available by using Hassy HC lenses with an adapter (albeit with no AF). Yet, I read here and elsewhere that HSS is "just as good" so leaf shutters have essentially become irrelevant. Is this true?
-
Perhaps someone without an axe to grind here (and you know who you are) can explain this all for me. I had always understood that leaf shutter lenses were a very significant feature with medium format cameras, and Fuji has gone out of its way to assure the buyers of the GFX that a leaf shutter capability would be available by using Hassy HC lenses with an adapter (albeit with no AF). Yet, I read here and elsewhere that HSS is "just as good" so leaf shutters have essentially become irrelevant. Is this true?
leaf shutter lets you use any flash with any shutter speed....no tweaking no sync magic needed....
HS or HSS requires a lot of communication between flash and camera and (and this is the biggest drawback) a lot of power is lost....
the advantage of HS or HSS is that any shutter speed can be used (1/8000, no problem) and in reality if you have a system flash with your canon, fuji, nikon,...they pretty much all do HSS with TTL on and off camera in a fool proof way....
it comes down to this: people want to shoot outside in full sun wide open....shooting at 1.4 and maybe using the sun as fill requires shutter speeds most leaf shutters just can't do....even if they were available for DSLR.....
when i spoke with my broncolor rep asking about HS he told me to either use fast shutter speed with HS outside (at which point broncolor provides a long flash duration and the shutter freezes the action) or use the camera"s fastest sync speed and the "normal" pack settings which provides the shortest flash duration (and freezes the action that way)....in this case a leaf shutter would be better because (lets say) 1/1000 is pretty short to begin with and the pack would at this point still provide a very short flash duration and that combination would be pretty much ideal....add in fast recycle for continuous shooting....
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Since the leaf shutter issue has been brought up and I've made it a point, I'll try and shed some light on why it's important to me.
I had always understood that leaf shutter lenses were a very significant feature with medium format cameras,
Actually, this isn't completely true. Most currently sold MF cameras don't have leaf shutters - think Mamiya, Pentax, Fuji, Contax. Hasselblad and some lenses sold by Phase One have leaf shutters. The leaf shutter isn't the exclusive province of MF cameras - the inexpensive Fuji X100 camera comes with a sweet little leaf shutter. If you want the flexibility of the leaf shutter without the cost, it's a great option.
The reason why a leaf shutter is important (to me) is because I can sync my strobes at all shutter speeds. When shooting in the studio, this isn't important, but when shooting outside in daylight, it becomes a real issue. To explain, let's first look at our full sunlight exposure at ISO 100. At f16, our full sun shutter speed is about 1/100. If you wish to overpower full sun, your strobes need to be spitting out enough juice to produce f22 or more. That's an awful lot to ask of your strobes; most can't do it unless they're a foot or two away from the subject.
But if we can increase our shutter speed a few stops - say to 1/400, now we can overpower sunlight by one stop at f11 (keeping in mind the principle of reciprocity). Go to 1/800 and f8 will work. Those are f-stops that can be hit by battery powered strobes such as the 1200 w/s Profoto 7b and even the 500 w/s B1. The benefit to using a leaf shuttered camera is that you have that flexibility to select higher shutter speeds to use with strobes. Focal plane MF cameras are pretty much limited to 1/125 - which means you're going to have a tough time overpowering sunlight.
Here's an example of an image that was shot at 1/350 at f8.5 during the middle of cloudy day. Because of the higher sync speed offered by the leaf shutter, I was able to underexpose the sky to the point that I could bring out their detail.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/Instagram/i-mNL29c2/0/c5321d79/M/Screen%20Shot%202017-05-01%20at%2010.00.09%20PM-M.png)
Now if I'd shot this using Mamiya or Fuji, I'd would have used a 1/125 shutter speed (the max shutter sync speed) at roughly f16 to f16.5. Doable, but I'd have had to crank up my Profoto 7B - which means fewer shots over the course of the day before the battery goes dead. A Profoto B1 probably would not have been able to produce that much power since it cranks out about 1/3 the watt seconds of the 7B.
Anyhow, hope this helps some people to understand what the deal is with the leaf shutter.
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If it isn't 6x6 square, it isn't really a Hasselblad.
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If it isn't 6x6 square, it isn't really a Hasselblad.
if it isn't wood and brass....
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Juanito,
You could quit that pesky day job and become a science writer :)
Since the leaf shutter issue has been brought up and I've made it a point, I'll try and shed some light on why it's important to me.
---snip---
Anyhow, hope this helps some people to understand what the deal is with the leaf shutter.
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If it isn't 6x6 square, it isn't really a Hasselblad.
"If it doesn't have a mirror, it isn't really a camera."
"If it wasn't shot in 35mm, then it's not street photography."
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You could quit that pesky day job and become a science writer :)
Perhaps, but it is really basic information for a photographer using mixed light.
To me if can't convert aperture and shutter speed in your head then you aren't a photographer.
I wonder how many people even on this forum could name the full stops from f1.4 up?
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I wonder how many people even on this forum could name the full stops from f1.4 up?
I have met many photographers and discussed exposure, I shoot a lot of "sunny sixteen" (on film) casually, it is very liberating, very many love the idea, have no problem with the sunny sixteen bit but can't convert the speed/aperture ratio to any other setting.
On topic: I note two X1D outfits are now listed used low shot count in the UK, (at a healthy discount to new, well at least the VAT off for us amateurs) yet to see the other one S/H other than BNIB trying for a premium.
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SELLING MY X1D
After shooting some 1100 or so shots with the Hasselblad X1D system, I have decided that it is not what I need for my work. I’m sure, many will point out that I don’t get it, but I am only trying to “get it” for my own work. It’s embarrassing to admit this, after all my praise, but at my age, who cares? I have put my X1D system, including the 45mm and 90mm lenses, plus the lovely RSS L-Bracket and 5 batteries for sale on Ebay under my nickname ALLMUSIC.
Although there are a number of druthers and small reasons for giving up the camera, the two main reasons are:
(1) The lack of lenses I need now for the camera. I have waited months for the 30mm and, of course, probably will would have waited for the announced 120mm Macro, as well. This is summer, and now is the time I need those lenses. As a close-up photographer, neither the 45mm or 90mm can get me close enough, especially since there are no extensions available.
(2) And secondly, having very carefully done hundreds of test shots for overall sharpness, I am, despite what others say, disappointed with the degree and kind of sharpness I can attain with the X1D system and their lenses. Please don’t ask me to prove this. It’s just my opinion.
No one is more sorry than I am, and perhaps selling this system is a stupid thing to do. I lose a bunch of money. Or, is it that I’m hooked on the Nikon system and how the D810 works? I am not arguing that the D810 IQ is better than the X1D, but only that what I am able to get from the X1D is not worth what I have to put up with to get it. And, of course, there are all the great lenses I have that will never work on the X1D, but that is a minor thing.
And finally, for me and the work I do, the X1D is just not ready with what I need. I should have waited for perhaps the second edition. And, I can always get another copy, should an X2D comes out. Meanwhile, I will wait for the rumored 46 Mpx D820 and have to be happy with that. I have TRIED to love this system, but I can’t get there from here.
I will say that the X1D haptics are extraordinary and that, if I wanted to afford what for me would basically be a $20k system, I would keep it. The system is easy to use and I love the touch-screen of the LiveView.
So, there you have it. I report this because I owe it to those who have read any of my other comments on this system. C'est la vie
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Could the issue of lacking sharpness you need be an issue with the particular lens only?
I have encountered several times in my life where the "same" lens but a different piece varies substantially between units.
Did you try a different copy of the same lens?
General Question to Posters:
Are any other owners of the lens finding it is not as sharp as they expected?
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Hi Jack,
Many factors affecting sharpness. Focusing, tripod, MLU, shutter release, focusing, DoF, diffraction.
Once we get all that right, we may discuss lenses, formats and sensors.
Best regards
Erik
Could the issue of lacking sharpness you need be an issue with the particular lens only?
I have encountered several times in my life where the "same" lens but a different piece varies substantially between units.
Did you try a different copy of the same lens?
General Question to Posters:
Are any other owners of the lens finding it is not as sharp as they expected?
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General Question to Posters:
Are any other owners of the lens finding it is not as sharp as they expected?
Not at all. However, if you just run the X1D files through LR/ACR using the default sharpening settings, you may not be impressed.
Here are the sharpening settings in LR/ACR that I found to be optimal for the X1D files:
Amount=60
Radius=.7
Detail=70
If I use Phocus, I would turn off sharpening completely and export a TIFF to PS and use Focus Magic at a Radius of 2 and an amount of 100%.
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Not at all. However, if you just run the X1D files through LR/ACR using the default sharpening settings, you may not be impressed.
It is true that the dfault amount of sharpening of other converters, C1 Pro for instance, is twice higher than that of LR.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I wonder how many people even on this forum could name the full stops from f1.4 up?
Since every other one is irrational, I'd venture to say none of us could.
This is approximate:
1.4142135623731
2
2.82842712474619
4
5.65685424949238
8
11.3137084989848
16
22.6274169979695
32
45.2548339959391
64
:)
Jim
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I have a few additional observations and questions having had the X1D for a week. First, like many, I am most impressed by the ergonomics and build quality. It is a camera that you not only want to take with you, but show off. Some part of the price I would pay for just the artistic quality of it.
I have ran into a few issues where the menu/firmware seems to still have some bugs despite having upgraded camera and lens firmware. Occasionally, when trying to adjust the aperture or shutter speed via the LCD, the camera freezes and flips back to the prior screen without being able to make the adjustment. I simply turn the camera off and back on and it fixes the problem. A nuisance I will have faith will be solved with the next firmware update. But if others could confirm they have the same problem it would give me peace of mind during my return period.
The manual focusing experience is superb. Long lens throw and pretty precise manual focus. A slight bit of forward focus with the 90mm at low apertures, but knowing that one can compensate. The lens was superb otherwise shooting at my charts. I don't like the octagonal bokeh when the 90mm is wide open. Hasselblad lens designers should take note of this complaint. All in all though, it's an acceptable lens. Diglloyd was right on the money in his reviews.
One thing I am finding frustrating is there appears to be no way to display a histogram or highlight blinkies. For landscape use this is almost unacceptable and forces exposure bracketing. Does anyone know how to turn either function on or whether a firmware update with this might be forthcoming? I read through the manual and did some Internet searches and it seems this is a current problem.
All in all, I think I like it more than the GFX I demoed two weeks ago. They are quite different cameras, and it is a closer call then I imagined. The build quality, haptics and manual focusing characteristics are making me inclined to keep the X1D. The lack of highlight blinkies, wide open octangular bokeh and lack of lenses are giving me occasional second thoughts.
Michael – sorry to see you go -- I hope you change your mind again and take it off of eBay! Having said that, the 120 mm is now projected to start shipping in August and according to Hasselblad's website, so the Summer will be over then. That will probably be my favorite lens too. Why can't someone print some extension tubes in the meantime I don't know. There's even a macro adapter available for the H lenses that I'd buy in a heartbeat.
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Michael – sorry to see you go -- I hope you change your mind again and take it off of eBay! Having said that, the 120 mm is now projected to start shipping in August and according to Hasselblad's website, so the Summer will be over then. That will probably be my favorite lens too. Why can't someone print some extension tubes in the meantime I don't know. There's even a macro adapter available for the H lenses that I'd buy in a heartbeat.
I bought an older 120mm Macro and was planning to get that adapter, but the lens was so huge and heavy, that hanging it off an adapter made no sense to me at all. I sold the lens. I'm find, happy with my Nikon D810 and looking forward to the upgrade.
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I had the opportunity to try out the X1D over a couple of days. My interest in this camera is for landscape and fine art imagery, suitable for gallery sales and sized up to 6ft to 8ft. I would be using the camera on a tripod most of the time, as I have done in the past with 8x10", 4x5" and various medium format cameras.
I found the color and image quality to be really superb from location work to doing a test in the studio of an oil ( mostly white ) painting detail under studio flash. I didn't have time to get familiar with all the functions but quickly became comfortable and confident using manual focus with the self timer on a tripod and really liked the touch screen functionality. I was less confident using the auto focus hand-held and kept feeling I had moved the camera during the exposure, but the results proved to be mostly excellent in terms of sharpness with the limited experience I had. I'm sure this experience and confidence will improve with use. A few times I had to double tap the exposure button to fire the camera and not sure why this occurred. I also received a 'no card' error message with the card in the camera but just removed and replaced the battery and everything went back to normal. There seems to be heat build up when shooting a lot of images over a short period, although not excessive.
I'm looking to have one main camera system that is light, portable and offers excellent quality for my purposes ( which would include studio work ) and Im really hoping and do feel confident, that with firmware updates and with more personal handling experience, that it will be easy to conclude that this will be the camera system for me. I did offer a suggestion that the camera leveling system could include a degree readout for critical work and also feel that the inclusion of a tilt-shift lens would be essential for landscape work, rather than adding existing components to an adapter.
I should point out that I have used both Phase One and Leaf digital backs for a number of years on medium and large format cameras and experienced many 'buggy' issues with them, opposed to just a couple on my first experience with the X1D. Now to get some large scale test prints done to really check the quality.
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Phil,
Thank you for your candid review of the X1D-50c. Two things I'd like to share: 1) the X1D-50c uses Contrast Detection focusing and when AF is enabled with a half-press of the Shutter Release or AF-Drive button, the focus indicator centered will display in white, signaling that AF is being analyzed in the focus range (the distance the lens moves to and from the desired element in view). Once analyzed, focus can be optimized and the shutter release is no longer blocked (in AF mode, the camera will "only" release if the focus indicator is "green"). You're invited to join me for tomorrow's Webinar, where I will discuss the X1D camera focus setting: X1D Webinar - Camera Focus Settings (http://https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/4505906786095616770?mc_cid=2f60bea66b&mc_eid=251a7a68ca) 2) Anyone experiencing the "no card" error, the latest firmware specifically addresses this issue, please see the following link to update: Firmware 1.15.1 (http://http://www.hasselblad.com/support/manuals/medium-format-firmware).
Thanks,
Eric P.
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Phil,
Please see the following review of the X1D-50c by Steve Huff. Beyond it being favorable, it's practical in how he uses the camera system:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2017/09/11/my-hasselblad-x1d-camera-review-part-the-decision-by-steve-huff/
Sincerely,
Eric Peterson
Field Sales Specialist
Hasselblad