Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Paul2660 on February 28, 2017, 06:51:08 am
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Just noticed that B&H has moved out the ship date on the their first shipments of the Fuji GFX. Up till midnight of last night, B&H still showed shipping on 02/28/27 but that now has changed to shipping soon.
Did anyone see a ship notice from B&H? Just curious.
The only piece I have seen in stock is the detachable EVF that allows rotation. That appears to be in stock at B&H in limited quantities, and Adorama had it in stock for a few days also.
Hope this doesn't become a pattern.
Paul Caldwell
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There is one in stock at amazon.co.jp and some in stock at Yodobashi.com. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Just noticed that B&H has moved out the ship date on the their first shipments of the Fuji GFX. Up till midnight of last night, B&H still showed shipping on 02/28/27 but that now has changed to shipping soon.
Paul Caldwell
You beat me to it, Paul. I also hoped that Fuji would arrive on the scheduled date.
Victor
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I hope it's not a repeat of the X1D. I still don't understand why companies don't pad the delivery date as they seldom seem to deliver on time. They could at least provide updates when the schedule slips. Oh well - I should be use to this by now!
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Interesting timing! I just got an email from my dealer saying my camera has arrived with 3 lenses. I will receive it this week. Unfortunately, I'm heading to Japan for a couple of weeks doing photography so I won't be able to put it through it's paces.
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I hope it's not a repeat of the X1D. I still don't understand why companies don't pad the delivery date as they seldom seem to deliver on time. They could at least provide updates when the schedule slips. Oh well - I should be use to this by now!
Wouldn't look good for pre-orders I guess
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Just noticed that B&H has moved out the ship date on the their first shipments of the Fuji GFX. Up till midnight of last night, B&H still showed shipping on 02/28/27 but that now has changed to shipping soon.
Paul Caldwell
Sounds like the availability moved up a full decade. :D
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In talking to my dealer he also told me he had orders in for 15 units but only got one. Sounds like delivery will be slow in the beginning. I suspect, as with the X1D, initial orders exceeded expectations.
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That there would be limited delivery with respect to shipping GFX orders was disclosed by Fuji on February 22nd.
February 22, 2017
Dear valued customers
Due to high interest in the FUJIFILM GFX 50S Medium Format Mirrorless Camera system, we will require some time to fulfill demand. We expect to see the situation start to improve by the end of March. We apologize for the delay and ask you for your kind understanding.
Fujifilm GFX Limited Delivery (http://www.fujirumors.com/high-demand-notification-limited-delivery-gfx-50s-medium-format-mirrorless-camera-system/)
Just as with the X-T2, the number of pre-orders surpassed Fuji's "demand forecast". Fuji's Makoto Oishi said in an interview with The imaging Resource yesterday, "We’ve sold more X-T2’s than we ever expected.” Looks like the same may hold true for the GFX...
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Sorry to insist... but there is still stock at major retailers in Japan... which was never the case for the X1D. These are 2 totally different situations.
It almost feels like some here are hoping that Fuji is going to miss this launch... and willing to cherry pick the facts to bend the story accordingly.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Sorry to insist... but there is still stock at major retailers in Japan... which was never the case for the X1D. These are 2 totally different situations.
It almost feels like some here are hoping that Fuji is going to miss this launch... and willing to cherry pick the facts to bend the story accordingly.
Cheers,
Bernard
Yup, here it is for sale at BIC Camera in Japan.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/generalfujixphotos/websize/GFX%20Japan%20Retailer.png)
Just from a historical perspective, when a new product was launched into the X-system, it was not at all unusual for products to become available and ship to customers in Europe and Asia before they became available for shipment in North America. This was the case with a number of lenses, and the X100T, IIRC. Often times the time difference was a month or more.
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Hi Bernard, I hope you are not implying I hope that Fuji fails, as that is not the case. I had high hopes of this launch in the US. Had hoped that Fuji would not repeat the mistakes that were made by others with similar products. I have been on board with the GFX for over 1 year now, since the first rumors of it appeared actually 1.5 years ago. So no I am not hoping to see the launch fail. However, I believe that it could have been handled better and am surprised at this glitch after the debacle on C1 support.
B&H, almost never shows a actual date unless they know it for sure. As of last night, it was 02/28/17. I have contacted B&H twice today and both times I have been told no GFX product arrived in their warehouse to ship. On the 2nd call, I pushed for more info seeking to find if B&H received some cameras just a limited number and thus my order was not high enough in the que. But again they told me, nothing had arrived. I did then and still do find it a bit hard to believe that B&H has no idea where such a outlay of product might be. I have still to hear if anyone with a first day order on the GFX at B&H had anything ship.
The X1D as beautiful and masterful a design does not appeal to me for a lot of reasons. I have been a Fuji user since the days of the Fuji re-branded Nikon N90 (can't remember that camera's name) and even then Fuji was using x-trans or something like it. This camera, the GFX is straight Bayer pattern and I am very strongly looking forward to it as the raw conversion should be much more straight forward.
So, no I sure don't wish ill will on Fuji, however I do wish that they had better communicated on their dates as for some reason they gave B&H a valid reason to suppose 02/28/17 was a real date.
From reading several posts on the close FujiGFX Facebook group I totally agree that the Asia Pacific market has had cameras shipping, quite a few in fact and bit and pieces have shown up on Amazon US.
Paul Caldwell
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i ordered my copy of the GFX within two hours of first availability. And I called today and pushed as much as I could for info. They had none. THey did say that the batteries for the GFX are delayed until March 2nd, but that all other dates were for today.
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They seem to be shipping in real quantities outside of the US -- Germany, Amsterdam and all over Asia.
My dealer said it will probably be mid-late March, maybe early April, before they start hitting stores in the US.
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They are hitting the stores now but not in quantity.
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My B&H status just changed to "Processing".
Jim
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My B&H status just changed to "Processing".
Jim
My GFX order at B&H has said processing for weeks.
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My GFX order at B&H has said processing for weeks.
Well, that's disappointing.
Jim
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Well something is going on as the extra battery was "processing" for the last few days, and it was changed back to "order placed", which tells me the extra batteries have been pushed back, which also correlates to what I am reading on the FujiGFX group page.
Looks like B&H has yet to get any of the rest of the gear in besides the removable EVF, but may still get something sooner than later.
Paul Caldwell
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Looks like I spoke too soon....
Was just sent this from Samy's Camera a few minutes ago.
Good sign for others who placed orders the day of the announcement.
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Hi Bernard, I hope you are not implying I hope that Fuji fails, as that is not the case.
Paul,
I was not replying to any particular message, more to the overall tone of some of the answers.
Facts are in my view clear that we are not in a X1D like situations. Cameras are shipping in significant numbers. The number of orders may be above Fuji's capacity to meet all orders in the first days after availability, but I don't believe it justifies putting the GFX and the X1D in the same category of cameras for which the manufacturer bascically lied to the market.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Fuji has handled the entirety of the launch exceedingly well.
On the other hand, Hasselblad absolutely, 100%, lied to the market... I think that's pretty clear now.
With the GFX, it would be nice to see a Raw Converter with a profile ready to handle the images. Until then, I'll be shooting with the most expensive JPEG camera ever produced.
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My GFX order at B&H has said processing for weeks.
They must use Windows computers as I see my work with the processing symbol quite often. ;D
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Extra batteries are not available at this time.
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Fuji has handled the entirety of the launch exceedingly well.
With the GFX, it would be nice to see a Raw Converter with a profile ready to handle the images. Until then, I'll be shooting with the most expensive JPEG camera ever produced.
Yes, that's a real well executed launch. No raw support in either of the two major raw conversion software programs, Lightroom and Capture One. I don't think of that as a nice to have.
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Yes, that's a real well executed launch. No raw support in either of the two major raw conversion software programs, Lightroom and Capture One. I don't think of that as a nice to have.
Not sure why you mention C1 Pro here as we know P1 won't be supporting it.
As far as LR support we've had more than a few major examples throughtout the years where Canon or Nikon DSLR were not supported immediately also.
I find it a bit harsh to blame this on Fuji.
Cheers,
Bernard
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As far as LR support we've had more than a few major examples throughtout the years where Canon or Nikon DSLR were not supported immediately also.
A few, Bernard? It's almost always the case that new cameras are not supported immediately by any of the major raw converters. Edit: See this post on the timing of Lightroom updates (https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2116114) and particularly the schedule showing how many releases it takes for new cameras to be supported.
Since few camera makers offer DNG as an optional format, it's unreasonable for anyone to expect Fuji's new camera would be supported on day one.
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No, they'e just unsure about Señor Trump and getting paid in alternative money.
Once the dust settles, everything will have reverted back to normal chaos.
;-)
Rob C
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A few, Bernard? It's almost always the case that new cameras are not supported immediately by any of the major raw converters. Edit: See this post on the timing of Lightroom updates (https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2116114) and particularly the schedule showing how many releases it takes for new cameras to be supported.
Since few camera makers offer DNG as an optional format, it's unreasonable for anyone to expect Fuji's new camera would be supported on day one.
Agreed. This has been the situation for pretty much every camera released on the market in the last 10-12 years.
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Agreed. This has been the situation for pretty much every camera released on the market in the last 10-12 years.
Look at the competition. I am sure neither Phase nor Hasselblad has ever released a medium format camera system that was not immediately supported by Capture One or Phocus. AFAIK, recent Hasselblads have also been supported by Lightroom/ACR upon release. If Hasselblad was able to get LR/ACR support for the X1D raw files months ago, why couldn't Fuji do the same? The GFX is not supposed to be a $6500 point and shoot. There is no excuse for this.
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If the X1D had shipped within the original announced timeline I doubt the LR support would have been there. How fast we forget. LR came out with support in the last dot release as I recall.
Paul Caldwell
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Look at the competition. I am sure neither Phase nor Hasselblad has ever released a medium format camera system that was not immediately supported by Capture One or Phocus. AFAIK, recent Hasselblads have also been supported by Lightroom/ACR upon release. If Hasselblad was able to get LR/ACR support for the X1D raw files months ago, why couldn't Fuji do the same? The GFX is not supposed to be a $6500 point and shoot. There is no excuse for this.
The key difference is that both Phase One and Hasselblad have control over the development of their own software. Fuji does not have control over Adobe's development schedule for ACR/LR RAW support.
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Looks like I spoke too soon....
Was just sent this from Samy's Camera a few minutes ago.
Good sign for others who placed orders the day of the announcement.
Congratulations!
So, I guess they didn't "slip" after all...Fuji is shipping when they said they would.
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If the X1D had shipped within the original announced timeline I doubt the LR support would have been there. How fast we forget. LR came out with support in the last dot release as I recall.
Paul Caldwell
I think the X1D support was added to LR and ACR on December 8, 2016. There were no shipments to customers prior to that date. It is quite likely that Hasselblad would have seen to it to have LR/ACR support for the X1D if it had been able to start shipping much earlier. This is not Hasselblad's first rodeo with the Sony 50mp sensor. Moreover, there was raw support in Phocus AND THE ABILITY TO SHOOT RAWS ON X1D DEMOS available to customers long before December 8.
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I think the X1D support was added to LR and ACR on December 8, 2016. There were no shipments to customers prior to that date. It is quite likely that Hasselblad would have seen to it to have LR/ACR support for the X1D if it had been able to start shipping much earlier. This is not Hasselblad's first rodeo with the Sony 50mp sensor. Moreover, there was raw support in Phocus AND THE ABILITY TO SHOOT RAWS ON X1D DEMOS available to customers long before December 8.
There is raw support with Silkypix.
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There is raw support with Silkypix.
You can get it here:
http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/myfinepix_studio/rfc_2/win/
Jim
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The key difference is that both Phase One and Hasselblad have control over the development of their own software. Fuji does not have control over Adobe's development schedule for ACR/LR RAW support.
If Hasselblad with its relatively meager resources can work with Adobe to insure timely LR support, surely Fuji could. This is just disappointing to me. FUJI appears to have done everything else so well. I have a GFX on order that I SHOULD get soon, and I don't want to shoot JPEGs with film simulations. I really think that Fuji is extrapolating from its experience with the X series camera where a very high percentage of shooters just shoot JPEGs. You can tell from their GFX marketing material that they think JPEGs with those film simulations are showcased. Historically, that is not the medium format market.
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If Hasselblad with its relatively meager resources can work with Adobe to insure timely LR support, surely Fuji could. This is just disappointing to me. FUJI appears to have done everything else so well. I have a GFX on order that I SHOULD get soon, and I don't want to shoot JPEGs with film simulations. I really think that Fuji is extrapolating from its experience with the X series camera where a very high percentage of shooters just shoot JPEGs. You can tell from their GFX marketing material that they think JPEGs with those film simulations are showcased. Historically, that is not the medium format market.
Hasselblad wasn't even shipping cameras when ACR/LR support was implemented in December, 2016, so this example is not comparable. Fuji is working with Adobe and as I mentioned last week, ACR/LR support will follow in a few weeks.
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Howard makes a good point, I agree, the raw support on the GFX has been a bit slow in coming as all the beta testers I know of and or read reports from, were all limited to jpgs as if the RAW part of the camera had been turned off. They could use the internal tif conversion however.
As for Silkypix, not much to state on that. The last time I looked at the stripped down code that Fuji gives, it's extremely weak in features. The Iridient solution that allows conversion of RAF to dng with sharpening is much better IMO. Hopefully Iridient will have that type of support sometime. I assume LR will have support in a month or so with a dot release.
Paul Caldwell
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Howard makes a good point, I agree, the raw support on the GFX has been a bit slow in coming as all the beta testers I know of and or read reports from, were all limited to jpgs as if the RAW part of the camera had been turned off. They could use the internal tif conversion however.
I don't think it's fair to say "raw support on the GFX has been a bit slow in coming". While most of the writers had pre-production bodies a couple of months ago (one told me he could shoot in raw), Adobe generally wait for production bodies before they support the camera. As that schedule showed it's very unusual for any new proprietary raw format to be supported immediately, and the GFX is no different. A DNG option might have meant support on day one though.
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I don't think it's fair to say "raw support on the GFX has been a bit slow in coming". While most of the writers had pre-production bodies a couple of months ago (one told me he could shoot in raw), Adobe generally wait for production bodies before they support the camera. As that schedule showed it's very unusual for any new proprietary raw format to be supported immediately, and the GFX is no different. A DNG option might have meant support on day one though.
It makes complete sense for a company to do this, and in fact, this is the more disciplined approach from a business and quality perspective. The last thing they want are "prototype" RAW files from cameras that are not representative of production units. This creates risk on a number of different levels, including potentially inaccurate perceptions about quality as well as possible major QA issues for a company to deal with.
On a side note: the biotech companies I've worked for do the same exact thing regarding analysis software for instrument releases for the same reasons. Software is not released until production instruments units are released for sale into the field.
IMHO, Life's too short for folks to get their panties in a bunch about this.
Get out and shoot. You'll feel better. Honest. ;D
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If Hasselblad with its relatively meager resources can work with Adobe to insure timely LR support, surely Fuji could.
The X1D was committed by Hasselblad to ship in September, raw support in LR was 3 months late relative to this. According to Hasselblad themselves, the delay of the X1D had nothing to do with its imaging processing pipe that is identical to the H6D-50c that was on the market... in March 2016... so it's hard to understand why Hasselblad couldn't get LR support by the Sept announced ship date.
I am more invested in Hasselblad than most people here... but I don't understand the need to broadcast unfair statements about the GFX.
If Fuji gets LR support before late May they will have been faster than Hasselblad.
Cheers,
Bernard
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IMHO, Life's too short for folks to get their panties in a bunch about this.
Get out and shoot. You'll feel better. Honest. ;D
No kidding! In fact I'd recommend to anyone interested in this system, but without a compelling reason to have it now (bragging rights don't qualify), that they wait a few months while whatever rough edges there are get discovered & dealt with. If I decide to get in, it likely won't be 'til the 110mm comes out. OTOH if you genuinely enjoy being an early adopter you'll already be accustomed to dealing with rough edges. IMO whinging about 'em suggests fanboy-ism at work.
-Dave-
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The X1D was committed by Hasselblad to ship in September, raw support in LR was 3 months late relative to this. According to Hasselblad themselves, the delay of the X1D had nothing to do with its imaging processing pipe that is identical to the H6D-50c that was on the market... in March 2016... so it's hard to understand why Hasselblad couldn't get LR support by the Sept announced ship date.
I am more invested in Hasselblad than most people here... but I don't understand the need to broadcast unfair statements about the GFX.
If Fuji gets LR support before late May they will have been faster than Hasselblad.
Cheers,
Bernard
Let's not confuse the issue here by arguing over whether the timing of Hasselblad support for the X1D is appropriately looked at from the vantage point of the imaginary shipping date of Mid-September, or the actual shipping date. My basic point is that the GFX is a $10k plus camera system that is shipping with no raw support. (I don't think anyone really considers SlikyPix a real option.) AFAIK, that has never happened before with a medium format camera system. Phase One always has raw support in Capture One. Hasselblad always has at least raw support in Phocus. If somebody told the potential buyers of a Phase or a Hasselblad that they could only shoot JPEGs for a month, I think everyone would be rolling on the floor with laughter.
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No kidding! In fact I'd recommend to anyone interested in this system, but without a compelling reason to have it now (bragging rights don't qualify), that they wait a few months while whatever rough edges there are get discovered & dealt with.
-Dave-
I think you are right. I did not realize when I ordered the GFX that there would be no LR support in very short order, and I cannot evaluate the GFX for my needs without it. I will likely cancel my pre-order at this point and wait.
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I think you are right. I did not realize when I ordered the GFX that there would be no LR support in very short order, and I cannot evaluate the GFX for my needs without it. I will likely cancel my pre-order at this point and wait.
What does Silkypix not do that Phocus does?
But yes, you should cancel your pre-order now! Someone else will certainly make good use of that body and enjoy LR support shortly after.
Cheers,
Bernard
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What does Silkypix not do that Phocus does?
Cheers,
Bernard
The Japanese are extraordinary at many things, but writing intelligible and functional raw conversion software is not one of them. I don't have the time or the inclination to learn SilkyPix.
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The Japanese are extraordinary at many things, but writing intelligible and functional raw conversion software is not one of them. I don't have the time or the inclination to learn SilkyPix.
As if Phocus were a great piece of code...
All that only shows that your interest for the GFX is low. You are not behaving like a real buyer. More like someone looking for reasons not to buy.
Cheers,
Bernard
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As if Phocus were a great piece of code...
All that only shows that your interest for the GFX is low. You are not behaving like a real buyer. More like someone looking for reasons not to buy.
Cheers,
Bernard
Well, it's good that you have diversified your Kool Aid to include Fuji as well as Nikon. LOL. SilkyPix is just wonderful software.
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Well, it's good that you have diversified your Kool Aid to include Fuji as well as Nikon. LOL. SilkyPix is just wonderful software.
Silkypix is good enough to evaluate the quality of the GFX raw files if you are interested in buying the camera. It was already good enough when I used it 10 years ago on my Mamiya ZD files.
I am not a Fuji user, the only commonality you'll find between me, Nikon and Fuji is the desire to look at things in an objective and fair way. If anything you are acting anti-Fuji a lot more than I am acting pro-Fuji.
I have always been brand agnostic (I cannot think of a brand I have never used or owned, except perhaps P1 due to them being out of my financial reach), and select my equipment based on what I think is best for my needs. All the claims that I have made about Nikon throughout the years have always ended up being seen as accurate and the view of the majority, although it sometimes took time... ;) It took 8 years for Canon to catch up in terms of DR, those who read my post as being pro-Nikon/anti-Canon completely missed the point, my posts were just pro image quality. Now that Canon has mostly caught up in terms of DR I would be totally fine to use their bodies, but I don't see what I would gain over my current Nikons who took a lead in AF in the meantime...
Anyway, whatever works for you, but I find in all objectivity the GFX to be a great option, eventhough I am invested in Hasselblad equipment.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I think you are right. I did not realize when I ordered the GFX that there would be no LR support in very short order, and I cannot evaluate the GFX for my needs without it. I will likely cancel my pre-order at this point and wait.
Fuji seem to have a good relationship with Adobe (their X-T2 was supported on day one) and I doubt you'll be waiting long for LR support for the GFX, but I think it might make sense to cancel the order until things are clear. It might be for only a few days or weeks, but sadly one just cannot assume any new camera will be supported on launch day if Fuji and other camera makers fail to include an option to shoot as DNG.
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Fuji seem to have a good relationship with Adobe (their X-T2 was supported on day one) and I doubt you'll be waiting long for LR support for the GFX, but I think it might make sense to cancel the order until things are clear. It might be for only a few days or weeks, but sadly one just cannot assume any new camera will be supported on launch day if Fuji and other camera makers fail to include an option to shoot as DNG.
Hi John,
Even if a camera has an option to shoot DNG, even almighty Adobe still needs to make profiles and verify/create lensprofiles. Right?
Cheers,
Bart
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You should still be able to read the DNGs into your catalogue, so you could follow your normal import workflow, putting files in your folder structure, renaming them, applying any metadata. Following your usual practices has got to be more efficient and less error-prone than being forced to adopt some other method or having to pile up everything until the proprietary format is eventually supported. I think it's important not to overlook these asset management angles.
On the processing side, Adobe's profiles wouldn't be available but users could still postpone lens corrections till later (are they built-in like with Fuji's X cameras?) and process with a generic Camera Calibration profile. My guess is that users would step in with their own profiles. Perfect? Not by any means, but workable, probably. And certainly much better than where we are now.
John
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The Sony sensor is drop-in digital, should give identical results re. color on most cameras, so imge quality at reasonabke ISO will bevthere in Lightroom if it is already there for another camera with this sensor.
Lens correcrions are a different story ...
Edmund
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The Sony sensor is drop-in digital, should give identical results re. color on most cameras, so imge quality at reasonabke ISO will bevthere in Lightroom if it is already there for another camera with this sensor.
Lens correcrions are a different story ...
Edmund
The sensor is not a "drop-in" off the shelf sensor from Sony; it's a bespoke design made for Fujifilm by Sony. It's not the same sensor as in the X1D. Then there is the factor of Fuji's image processor, and then finally the Fuji lenses. The GFX lens mount engineering also plays a key role here. The attributes and qualities of the final image are a result of the interaction of the bespoke sensor design, imaging processor, lenses and lens mount.
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The sensor is not a "drop-in" off the shelf sensor from Sony; it's a bespoke design made for Fujifilm by Sony. It's not the same sensor as in the X1D. Then there is the factor of Fuji's image processor, and then finally the Fuji lenses. The GFX lens mount engineering also plays a key role here. The attributes and qualities of the final image are a result of the interaction of the bespoke sensor design, imaging processor, lenses and lens mount.
Sounds like you know a lot about the details of the GFX sensor design. How is it different from the other Sony 33x44mm sensors? Do they all use ramp column ADCs? Are the FWCs different? How about RN? QE? CFAs?
I'd be really interested in the differences and and as much as you can tell us about how you know what you know about the GFX design.
Jim
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Hi Jim:
Fuji has a small site where they are writing up tech info on the GFX. So far they have covered the sensor design and G mount. Here is a link to the Fuji write up on their version of the Sony 50MP. Appears that Fuji may have made some changes but without a camera to test, hard to really say.
http://fujifilm-x.com/de/x-stories/gfx-technologies-1/ (http://fujifilm-x.com/de/x-stories/gfx-technologies-1/)
Paul Caldwell
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Hi Jim:
Fuji has a small site where they are writing up tech info on the GFX. So far they have covered the sensor design and G mount. Here is a link to the Fuji write up on their version of the Sony 50MP. Appears that Fuji may have made some changes but without a camera to test, hard to really say.
http://fujifilm-x.com/de/x-stories/gfx-technologies-1/ (http://fujifilm-x.com/de/x-stories/gfx-technologies-1/)
Thanks, Paul. Unfortunately, this is written in such a way that I can gain almost nothing useful out of it.
What I think they are saying:
The FWC has been increased by a factor of 2^(1/3) = 1,26.
The effective fill factor has been reduced from nearly 100% to something less. This will increase MTF50 and also increase aliasing.
They have increased the sensor scan speed during AF acquisition from 130 frames per second to 200 fps. If they refresh the EVF at this rate, that should also reduce EVF latency, but they don't say whether they do that or not.
There have been some packaging changes that I can't figure out: "Of course, the sensor itself has the surface size of 43.8x32.9mm, but the shape of the sensor unit is different for the GFX 50S. Typically the sensor is mounted to the silicon circuit with terminals placed on both sides of the sensor. But in the case of GFX, the sensor is mounted to the silicon circuit with the terminals placed on the back side of the sensor. "
My problem with this statement is that the sensor is itself a silicon circuit. Are they saying that they are using a stacked sensor? That would be news to me. Or is it as simple as saying that the package terminals are located behind the sensor? That wouldn't be rocket science. But for that to be true, the package would have to be the thing that they're calling the "silicon circuit", and that doesn't make any sense: there's no silicon in the package, at least to speak of. If it's just about the package configuration, there's a downside to their approach: it will not be easy to attach a heat sink right behind the sensor.
There is no mention of different CFA dyes, which I would expect would be the first thing they'd change, since Fuji has a take on color.
They have come up with a term that is new to me: photic saturation. I'm guessing that it is FWC divided by QE, but I don't really know.
At least I'm confused at a higher level.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
I think the comparison is made with an unspecified DSLR sensor. It is a bit interesting that they turn the "gapful" microlens design into virtue. Clearly, that would increase aliasing but also improve apparent sharpness.
It may be possible that the microlens design is more tolerant of large beam angles.
Lot of marketing speak involved, no good for SNR.
Best regards
Erik
Thanks, Paul. Unfortunately, this is written in such a way that I can gain almost nothing useful out of it.
What I think they are saying:
The FWC has been increased by a factor of 2^(1/3) = 1,26.
The effective fill factor has been reduced from nearly 100% to something less. This will increase MTF50 and also increase aliasing.
They have increased the sensor scan speed during AF acquisition from 130 frames per second to 200 fps. If they refresh the EVF at this rate, that should also reduce EVF latency, but they don't say whether they do that or not.
There have been some packaging changes that I can't figure out: "Of course, the sensor itself has the surface size of 43.8x32.9mm, but the shape of the sensor unit is different for the GFX 50S. Typically the sensor is mounted to the silicon circuit with terminals placed on both sides of the sensor. But in the case of GFX, the sensor is mounted to the silicon circuit with the terminals placed on the back side of the sensor. "
My problem with this statement is that the sensor is itself a silicon circuit. Are they saying that they are using a stacked sensor? That would be news to me.
There is no mention of different CFA dyes, which I would expect would be the first thing they'd change, since Fuji has a take on color.
They have come up with a term that is new to me: photic saturation. I'm guessing that it is FWC divided by QE, but I don't really know.
At least I'm confused at a higher level.
Jim
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Jim,
I quickly will defer to your knowledge on the subject. :)
My experience with the P1 application of the 50MP Sony was very positive, very good DR and shadow recovery. I mainly stayed away due to the crop factor of 1:3 and the fact all my lenses were designed for 645 sized chips. The Fuji, with lenses designed around the crop is where I plan to be.
I have never been a big fan of x-trans and if Fuji had made this chip x-trans, I would have not been so fast to order. But I have seen what the chip can do with a Bayer pattern. But to Fuji's credit, they did somethings with this 2.5 year old chip that no one else had done, namely EFC and ES, which are a huge plus for me.
Just wish B&H would get their order in. Still not sure what is going on there.
Paul Caldwell
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Jim,
I quickly will defer to your knowledge on the subject. :)
My experience with the P1 application of the 50MP Sony was very positive, very good DR and shadow recovery. I mainly stayed away due to the crop factor of 1:3 and the fact all my lenses were designed for 645 sized chips. The Fuji, with lenses designed around the crop is where I plan to be.
I have never been a big fan of x-trans and if Fuji had made this chip x-trans, I would have not been so fast to order. But I have seen what the chip can do with a Bayer pattern. But to Fuji's credit, they did somethings with this 2.5 year old chip that no one else had done, namely EFC and ES, which are a huge plus for me.
Just wish B&H would get their order in. Still not sure what is going on there.
I talked to a B&H agent today. He said a) my GFX is still backordered, b) they have received no cameras as yet, and c) they have no ETA. OTOH, their lack of stock has not kept them from bombarding me with invitations to buy the camera with the tag line, "Grab them before they're gone."
My the way, in addition to "photic", which turns to to actually be an English word, I also noticed the following in the page you pointed me to:
"...the images are 1/3 tougher against over-exposure."
"The pixel size is big enough to receive enough lights without making micro-lenses any bigger."
I suspect that the document was not originally written in English, and that the translator was not a native English speaker, and that could be the source of some of my difficulty achieving precise understanding.
Jim
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Hi Jim:
I believe that Fuji actually had very few cameras to ship, (reminds me of another company) and thus they fired out a shotgun blast around the world, so that coverage would be worldwide. The fact that Amazon had a few units (shipping from Cardinal camera of whom I have never heard of), disappoints me. I would never purchase such a product via that type of method. None of the items that popped up were Amazon Prime, so buyer beware.
Not sure what happened with B&H, as only they know. I am sure their order was much larger than the smaller shops that did receive them and because of this Fuji held off on shipping to them. They had the removable EVF, and shipped that to me.
Fuji gave a message a week before the 28th stating the camera orders had exceeded supply and it would take a while to catch up. No problem with that, but the fact that literally the next day B&H started to show "arriving on 02/28/17" led me to believe that B&H's first round of orders would be taken care of by Fuji. Just as was done with the X-T2 as there is not other reason to all of a sudden state "arriving on 02/28/17". Looks like the earth quake from last April is still showing it's effects.
There also may be a delay in the U.S. as Fuji ramps up their repair center and tech support as supposedly the GFX is going to get a different level of support and warranty turn around.
BTW anyone need the removable EVF? I have one of those showing up tomorrow. Not going to do my any good. Both Adorama and B&H received some of these.
Paul Caldwell
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Very strange about B&H not getting GFX units. B&H was way ahead of other US dealers in shipping X1Ds.
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Local dealer, CameraWest in Walnut Creek, had one GFX that arrived yesterday:hey also had two X1D's that sold out immediately. I bought it today and I'm in the process of testing it along side the Hasselblad X1D. Briefly: GFX is bigger than I thought but ergonomically very comfortable, and has an interface that's a bit complex with a number of very intriguing features, which are highly customizable. ( see the fuji guys recent highly informative video on their youtube channel)
The X1D's interface is much easier to grasp without immediately consulting the manual, and, if you're familiar with the Hasselblad H6D, you will not be disappointed. Overall, both systems will most likely appeal to a broad number of users.
Best regards,
Ron
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I have two orders with B&H for the GFX50s and accessories. Order #1 for the body, zoom, macro, tilt adapter & an extra battery. Order #2 only has the 63mm lens on it. Today, order #2, the 63mm lens, with as status of "processing" changed to "In stock, order sent to warehouse" while order #1 shows "new order" and each of the line items has changed from "processing" to "order placed" -- I'm not sure why the line items changed (from processing to order placed and I can't find any information on the B&H site that explains the difference). Both orders (#1 & #2) were placed early on January 19, 2017. I have an inquiry into B&H on status of order #1.
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Update from B&H on my order #1:
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Thank you for contacting the Customer Service Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio.
Please be advised that your backorder is estimated to arrive at our warehouse by 3/7/17. As soon as we receive it in stock we will ship your order to you, and e-mail you with the tracking information.
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Scott
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Just got notification from B&H that the camera and all lenses just shipped, should have it Monday. So they did get some yesterday/today it seems.
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Ditto. B&H shipped my order, including two extra batteries... should be here Tuesday. So, they missed their proposed deadline by about three days. Not too shabby at all.
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Well, this thread is all an exaggeration IMHO. So 28 February was the first official selling day and some camera stores actually had them in stock to sell on that day. I did not see a manufactured photo of a pro living in the same town as the factory showing off her boxes in the trunk of her car when no one else in the world had one.
I received shipping notice of the 2 items I pre-ordered in the middle of the night at B&H on 19 January, the first day one could pre-order from what I understood at the time. I also have a UPS tracking number so I missed the first day by 3-4 days, so what.
Come on folks let's get real. If you really wanted your GFX shipped this week then you could have just gotten up in the middle of the night like I did and pre-order one. End of story.
P.S.-I also got notice of extra batteries and extra charger being shipped for arrival today. Already received the tilt EVF adapter.
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As the starter of the thread, I guess we can agree to disagree.
B&H could have handled this much better IMO, I also was up at midnight and preordered.
Bits and pieces have rolled out to various photographers, but very few if any got everything ordered on the 19th of Jan.
Glad to see your camera has shipped however.
Paul Caldwell
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I have two orders with B&H for the GFX50s and accessories. Order #1 for the body, zoom, macro, tilt adapter & an extra battery. Order #2 only has the 63mm lens on it. Today, order #2, the 63mm lens, with as status of "processing" changed to "In stock, order sent to warehouse" while order #1 shows "new order" and each of the line items has changed from "processing" to "order placed" -- I'm not sure why the line items changed (from processing to order placed and I can't find any information on the B&H site that explains the difference). Both orders (#1 & #2) were placed early on January 19, 2017. I have an inquiry into B&H on status of order #1.
You should check to see if B&H is holding off on shipment until all of the items in Order # 1 are in stock. That has happened to me.
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As previously noted, I received my system with 3 lenses 2 days ago. I got notice that the vertical grip would be shipped today. They are slowly releasing more product. In comparison to the X1D this has been handled really well - so far. Hopefully, we see significant shipments by the end of March. Could they have done better - of course. It seems to me they have done OK all things considered.
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In comparison to the X1D this has been handled really well - so far.
Well, that's a pretty low hurdle, isn't it?
In all seriousness, I fully agree. I didn't expect anything less from Fuji. My only point of disagreement is over the issue of raw support, and yes, because the GFX is a $9,000+ medium format camera system, I hold them to a different standard on the timing of raw support in a mainstream raw converter. Would it really have been so difficult for Fuji to have the basic GFX profile included in the most recent LR release?
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Well, I guess they didn't get enough stock to satisfy ALL orders placed on day 1, as my order still shows as "Order Placed".
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The latest version of Iridient Developper has just been released with GFX 50s support in Mac and Windows.
Since this is IMHO the best raw converter on the market in terms of image quality it should be good for those interested in confirming the level of image quality of the GFX?
Cheers,
Bernard
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The latest version of Iridient Developper has just been released with GFX 50s support in Mac and Windows.
Since this is IMHO the best raw converter on the market in terms of image quality it should be good for those interested in confirming the level of image quality of the GFX?
Cheers,
Bernard
I can't seem to find the link for the Windows version? Can anyone provide it here please?
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I can't seem to find the link for the Windows version? Can anyone provide it here please?
http://www.iridientdigital.com
The win version is called X-Transformer Beta 3. The Beta of Iridient are as good as GA releases.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I can't seem to find the link for the Windows version? Can anyone provide it here please?
In an email today, Brian Griffith says: "The Iridient Developer 3.1.4 and X-Transformer 1.0 beta 3 updates are now available for download! Iridient X-Transformer beta 3 is now supported on both macOS 10.7 or later and Windows 7 or later. Iridient Developer is available for macOS only at this time."
Jim
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In an email today, Brian Griffith says: "The Iridient Developer 3.1.4 and X-Transformer 1.0 beta 3 updates are now available for download! Iridient X-Transformer beta 3 is now supported on both macOS 10.7 or later and Windows 7 or later. Iridient Developer is available for macOS only at this time."
Jim
I did a quick test with the GFX RAWs and Iridient Developer to see how well the Fuji reacts to pushing. Impressive.
Fuji GFX, 63mm f2.8 prime at f5.6, handheld at 1/55th of a second, ISO 100, RAW file
Standard development settings in Iridient developer
100% crops (screenshots).
First one original, second one with exposure pushed 5 stops
(not too fair to use the Canon as a model - but hey, the Fuji does this a bit better than my beloved 5DsR)
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The latest version of Iridient Developper has just been released with GFX 50s support in Mac and Windows.
Since this is IMHO the best raw converter on the market in terms of image quality it should be good for those interested in confirming the level of image quality of the GFX?
Cheers,
Bernard
Yeah, Brian Griffith of Iridient is pretty amazing. I was betting to myself he'd be the first to offer 3rd party support. He usually has RAW support before anyone else, and I agree that the image quality is really excellent; to date, the best I have encountered for X-Trans. His highlight recovery tools are way better than LR's. Why other companies can't do what a one-man shop can do I don't really understand. C1 still doesn't support compressed RAF, and Iridient has had support for it since September 2016; approximately 7 months ago. Cool that the X100F is supported, too, because I am going to snap one of those puppies up as soon as possible (they are flying off shelves, also).
So...let's sum up: Fuji shipped cameras to many locations worldwide just as they said they would, "brick and mortar" stores in the USA have had cameras for sale, B&H is now shipping cameras, and we have first class RAW support available in Week 1. Not too much to gripe about from where I sit.
I wish all the new GFX owners "good times" and amazing images. Looking forward to seeing what you guys get up to with GFX.
Me? I'm headed to Yosemite for a three-day weekend of landscape photography.
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... B&H is now shipping cameras...
Is that right? I thought they were saying that they expect to get cameras starting 3/7/17?
Jim
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In an email today, Brian Griffith says: "The Iridient Developer 3.1.4 and X-Transformer 1.0 beta 3 updates are now available for download! Iridient X-Transformer beta 3 is now supported on both macOS 10.7 or later and Windows 7 or later. Iridient Developer is available for macOS only at this time."
Jim
Sorry, I am still confused. Is there a version for Windows with the GFX converter in it. Where, please, is that link?
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Sorry, I am still confused. Is there a version for Windows with the GFX converter in it. Where, please, is that link?
The link is above. Here it is again.
http://www.iridientdigital.com/
The only one of Brian's products that will run on Windows is the one that converts to DNG format. It's not a full raw developer like Iridient Developer, but it will let you get your GFX files into Lr after they're in DNG. That is, I think it will. Since I don't have a GFX yet, I can't be sure.
Jim
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I do believe it was a good point that someone made back earlier that if on B&H's website you accidentally left it on "ship all items once in" so to speak, it could delay all your GFX items that are curently in stock while waiting for that elusive other item or two. I have had this happen to me and now often order one or two items at most in the same order as I never remember to say "ship anything that has arrived".
This could be the delay by many of you. It mgight be good to call B&H to tell them to change your order to ship whatever is in when it arrives.
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You should check to see if B&H is holding off on shipment until all of the items in Order # 1 are in stock. That has happened to me.
You're probably right. I didn't find anything on the original order or in the current status (online) which indicated "ship all at same time" or "ship as available" -- best to verify and I will contact B&H this weekend. Thank you for the tip.
Scott
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You should check to see if B&H is holding off on shipment until all of the items in Order # 1 are in stock. That has happened to me.
You were correct - B&H had "all items to ship together" on the order. The H Mount Adapter G was holding up the order / everything else was in stock. I told them to drop the adapter and the agent said the order would ship tomorrow. Again, thanks for the tip.
I also asked about release plates - no ETA yet but they expect them from Kirk and RRS. (no LCD protectors either but the camera is still new on the market).
Scott
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I also asked about release plates - no ETA yet but they expect them from Kirk and RRS. (no LCD protectors either but the camera is still new on the market).
Scott
My understanding is the RRS has mapped the GFX and that it will be several weeks (at the earliest) before the L-Bracket is available.
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I ordered the Fuji at about 9AM on January 19, the first day it was available for order. I received notice that the camera shipped today (Sunday). I also ordered two extra batteries and the viewfinder. Those also shipped today (after I called to split the other two orders apart). The lenses I ordered (120mm and the zoom) are not in stock, but expected before the end of March. The rep seemed willing to extend my return period on the camera under the circumstances, but did not fully commit. I've never returned a camera or lens, so I am not too concerned.
Anybody for medium format pinhole photography?
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You were correct - B&H had "all items to ship together" on the order. The H Mount Adapter G was holding up the order / everything else was in stock. I told them to drop the adapter and the agent said the order would ship tomorrow. Again, thanks for the tip.
I tried to do that, and it didn't work:
Agent: We can only release items that are currently in stock on an order to ship out and not wait for the backorder. At this point all the items are backordered so we are not able to release anything. I would suggest contacting us again to see if anything is in stock and if there is something in stock we should be able to release it to ship right away.
Me: Is my order set up for you to ship partials now?
Agent: No, we cannot set up an order to ship partial if everything is backordered.
Me: If the body comes in, will you hold it for me and not let someone else whose order came in after mine get it?
Agent: Correct, it would be held for you.
Me: OK. Will I be notified?
Agent: I do not believe that the system would notify you. I would suggest contacting us again in a week or so and we may have information as to when it will be in stock.
Jim
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I tried to do that, and it didn't work:
Agent: We can only release items that are currently in stock on an order to ship out and not wait for the backorder. At this point all the items are backordered so we are not able to release anything. I would suggest contacting us again to see if anything is in stock and if there is something in stock we should be able to release it to ship right away.
Me: Is my order set up for you to ship partials now?
Agent: No, we cannot set up an order to ship partial if everything is backordered.
Me: If the body comes in, will you hold it for me and not let someone else whose order came in after mine get it?
Agent: Correct, it would be held for you.
Me: OK. Will I be notified?
Agent: I do not believe that the system would notify you. I would suggest contacting us again in a week or so and we may have information as to when it will be in stock.
Jim
Try a different agent. I was initially told by the agent the same thing you were told, and when I kept pushing back, he figured out how to do it. I think he had to go into the system and cancel the item that was not available, so that the existing order would appear complete to the system. He then reordered the other item and somehow did it in a way that did not put me at the back of the line. If necessary, ask to speak with a supervisor.
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You were correct - B&H had "all items to ship together" on the order. The H Mount Adapter G was holding up the order / everything else was in stock. I told them to drop the adapter and the agent said the order would ship tomorrow. Again, thanks for the tip.
I also asked about release plates - no ETA yet but they expect them from Kirk and RRS. (no LCD protectors either but the camera is still new on the market).
Scott
I would hope that the camera is using Gorilla glass or something similar as to eliminate the need for an LCD protector.
Victor
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I would hope that the camera is using Gorilla glass or something similar as to eliminate the need for an LCD protector.
Victor
Victor, your statement made me curious -- I went searching for the answer. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that states the what the back (touch) LCD is made of -- to play it safe, I will assume it isn't a hardened material. Below are some of the documents I found online:
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujifilm_gfx_50s/pdf/index/gfx_catalogue_01.pdf
http://fujifilm-dsc.com/en/manual/gfx50s/technical_notes/spec/index.html
http://fujifilm-dsc.com/en-int/manual/gfx50s/gfx_50s_omw_en_s_f.pdf
anyone else know for sure if the back (touch) LCD is regular glass (or not)?
Scott
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After Apple cancelled their contract for the iPhone 6 series of phones, there should have been a lot of G glass on the market.
I doubt however Fuji used it, but it would have been nice for sure.
Paul Caldwell
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I received notification from Amazon this morning that my GFX camera and 63 MM lens has shipped with expected delivery on Wednesday. I look forward to comparing the GFX 50 with the Leica S system that I have used for the last 5-6 years, with occasional brief flings with other camera systems. Despite support issues, I have stayed with Leica, not having found any other system that measures up to the image quality and the shooting experience I get from Leica.
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Fuji Rumors is reporting a rumor that LR will be updated this week with GFX raw support. If true, excellent news.
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All of my orders #1 and #2 shipped from B&H - the only item not available was the Fuji Adapter (which I dropped from the order). I hope to have everything by Thursday/Friday this week.
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All of my orders #1 and #2 shipped from B&H - the only item not available was the Fuji Adapter (which I dropped from the order). I hope to have everything by Thursday/Friday this week.
Adobe Camera RAW 9.9 just launched, with support of Fuji GFX 50s: https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2017/03/acr-9-9-now-available.html , also DNG Converter supports it... I assume that Lightroom will closely follow this...
Regards,
David
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All of my orders #1 and #2 shipped from B&H - the only item not available was the Fuji Adapter (which I dropped from the order). I hope to have everything by Thursday/Friday this week.
I placed my B&H order on 1/19. The confirmation email is time-stamped at 10:24. A B&H agent just informed me that my GFX is not scheduled to ship until 4/7.
Jim
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Adobe Camera RAW 9.9 just launched, with support of Fuji GFX 50s: https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2017/03/acr-9-9-now-available.html , also DNG Converter supports it... I assume that Lightroom will closely follow this...
Sooner I say that it happens... Lightroom 2015.9 available - https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2017/03/lightroom-cc-2015-9-now-available.html with support to the Fuji GFX
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I placed my B&H order on 1/19. The confirmation email is time-stamped at 10:24. A B&H agent just informed me that my GFX is not scheduled to ship until 4/7.
Jim
Jim, I checked the date & time stamp on my order - Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 3:15 AM.
Scott
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Jim, I checked the date & time stamp on my order - Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 3:15 AM.
You sure beat me.
Jim
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eceived my GFX and zoom yesterday. Placed order around 1AM on 19 January. Waited one more day to place order on 120 and it has not been shipped and with no estimated date either. Sure hope they do not send me DL's 120 he is complaining about and is returning to B&H.
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Didn't get my order in until about 2:00 PM on the 19th. I'm staring at a lovely but useless 63mm f/2.8 lens and battery that came in yesterday sans camera. Sigh.
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Didn't get my order in until about 2:00 PM on the 19th. I'm staring at a lovely but useless 63mm f/2.8 lens and battery that came in yesterday sans camera. Sigh.
All I've gotten so far is the EVF Tilt Adapter. It's not heavy enough for a doorstop, but, still boxed, it does make a nice white paperweight.
Jim
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I fault both Fuji and BH and other dealers for this delivery nonsense. I have been out of town. Awaiting me at home tonight is a camera, 2 extra batteries, and the viewfinder. No lens. Given modern fulfillment systems, no one should be shipped a system that can't take a photograph. The cynic in me wonders whether this is a way to force people to buy the system without being able to test it within the return period.
BH is always sending me surveys. Overall, I am a huge fan, but on the next survey they will hear about lousy fulfillment practices. I will be out shooting tomorrow, so the wait isn't holding me back, but it takes the fun out of he new camera experience. Like buying a car, but being told no tires are available for a month.
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I now have all my orders (#1 & #2). Only had time today to charge the battery, connect the zoom and take a couple of shots inside (this evening). I plan on some outside photo time this weekend. While I don't have any other Fujifilm cameras now, I did own the XT-1 and the X-Pro 1. The GFX feels very "familiar" -- GFX focusing reminds me of the X-Pro 1. I've read DL's write-up -- and will take his points into consideration as I test the cam out. So far, the camera ergo/use related items he feels are detriments and design fails don't bother me - I enjoyed my time with the X-Pro 1 and XT-1. Maybe that's the difference.
Scott
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I now have all my orders (#1 & #2). Only had time today to charge the battery, connect the zoom and take a couple of shots inside (this evening). I plan on some outside photo time this weekend. While I don't have any other Fujifilm cameras now, I did own the XT-1 and the X-Pro 1. The GFX feels very "familiar" -- GFX focusing reminds me of the X-Pro 1. I've read DL's write-up -- and will take his points into consideration as I test the cam out. So far, the camera ergo/use related items he feels are detriments and design fails don't bother me - I enjoyed my time with the X-Pro 1 and XT-1. Maybe that's the difference.
Scott
I'm not surprised. While I haven't handled the camera personally, I saw one in person and obviously have looked at images online. The camera's ergonomics and button layout clearly reflect the designs of the Fuji X line. I had an XT-1 for quite some time, but I never found it comfortable, even with a battery grip. I found the handling of the D8XX far more comfortable. But horses for courses; ergonomics are such a personal preference.
I'll reserve my judgment until I can handle one in person, which looks to be sometime in the summer. It may be that the larger frame and spacing of buttons is enough of a difference from Fuji's APS-C cameras that I can come to like it. If not, well, at least I will have saved quite a bit of money that I can instead spend on travel.
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I'm not surprised. While I haven't handled the camera personally, I saw one in person and obviously have looked at images online. The camera's ergonomics and button layout clearly reflect the designs of the Fuji X line. I had an XT-1 for quite some time, but I never found it comfortable, even with a battery grip. I found the handling of the D8XX far more comfortable. But horses for courses; ergonomics are such a personal preference.
Truer words were never spoken. I've always found the design and control scheme of the X-cams to very comfortable and very intuitive. They remind me of the old fully manual film cameras I learned photography on. For example, the aperture adjustment is on the lens, where God intended it to be! ;)
Shot with Canon pro gear for a very long time, and always found it intuitive as well, by comparison Nikon's ergos were always very confusing to me.
Horses for courses.
The good thing is we have so many wonderful choices available today to best meet our needs.
Cheers.
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In terms of UI logic, Fuji is pretty close to Nikon, aren't they? Front and rear wheels to control speed and aperture. In fact the only brand deviating from this logic is pretty much Canon with their large control on the back of the camera.
Then you have differences of body shapes, grip depth,...
Cheers,
Bernard
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In terms of UI logic, Fuji is pretty close to Nikon, aren't they? Front and rear wheels to control speed and aperture. In fact the only brand deviating from this logic is pretty much Canon with their large control on the back of the camera.
Then you have differences of body shapes, grip depth,...
Cheers,
Bernard
When I bought my X-Pro1 and saw the analog dial (knob) and ring based control system, I really fell in love with it. I forced me to slow down just that little bit to have to look at the controls to know exactly where the camera was set, and my photography was the better for it. I found that I was too "disconnected" from "seeing" when using my Canon pro gear. The Canon gear was extremely good at what I was using it for, professional motorsports photojournalism, but the images were less rewarding that the images I was making with my X-Pro1.
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Here is some bad news If you are waiting for a GFX-50 Camera body; according to "Mirrorless Rumors the next shipment of GFX-50's will be March 30th. Currently I have a 32mm to 64mm zoom lens, RR90 remote, spare battery, and a GFX to Hasselblad adapter. More than enough stuff to use as a door stop or expensive interesting toy for my army of GSD's.
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You always believe rumors?
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You always believe rumors?
Well, that does line up with B&H's claim that they won't be shipping out any more camera bodies until April (as I was told by their support line). I'm resigned to not having my shiny new camera in time for my trip out to Arizona. I'm betting it will arrive at my house while I'm gone, because the universe just works like that.
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Sorry for this off-topic post, but I don't think it's important enough to start a new thread.
Is it true that you can't get the magnified focusing view on the GFX with native lenses while the lens is stopped down?
That might very well be a deal-killer for me.
Jim
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Sorry for this off-topic post, but I don't think it's important enough to start a new thread.
Is it true that you can't get the magnified focusing view on the GFX with native lenses while the lens is stopped down?
That might very well be a deal-killer for me.
Jim
Hi Jim
The Magnified view works with the lenses stopped down. I wish you could vary the zoom by pinching the screen with your fingers like on the iPhone as you can in playback mode. But you have a lot of zoom in range with the GFX. And you can move the aperture ring and see the numbers and available light change as you move the aperture.
I assume you mean by "native", Fuji brand lenses?
Paul Caldwell
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The Magnified view works with the lenses stopped down. I wish you could vary the zoom by pinching the screen with your fingers like on the iPhone as you can in playback mode. But you have a lot of zoom in range with the GFX. And you can move the aperture ring and see the numbers and available light change as you move the aperture.
I assume you mean by "native", Fuji brand lenses?
Yes, Fuji G-mount lenses; that's what I meant. So focus shift should have a workaround. That's very good news.
The numbers would change even if the lens stayed wide open like an a7x with Setting Effect OFF, but you can see the DOF change in magnified view, right? Ans when you look in the front of the lens, the diaphragm is not dilated?
Jim
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Yes, Focus shift has a work around. I need to check on your 2nd point, as I am not sure.
Fuji, with their Focus by wire, design has plus and minus problems. The issue I have with the FBW for the GFX is:
When you turn off the camera, your focus point is lost
When you move from capture to playback, your focus point is lost
When you move from S mode after obtaining a good focus, to M mode, your focus point is lost
In the past on primes, Fuji allowed for a Manual focus clutch, so you can focus, then clutch down to MF, then go back and forth between capture and playback without the loss of your focus point. So far none of the GFX lenses have a clutch, which I feel is a huge oversight by Fuji, at least for my work.
Paul Caldwell
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Yes, Fuji G-mount lenses; that's what I meant. So focus shift should have a workaround. That's very good news.
The numbers would change even if the lens stayed wide open like an a7x with Setting Effect OFF, but you can see the DOF change in magnified view, right? Ans when you look in the front of the lens, the diaphragm is not dilated?
Jim
I don't believe the G mount lenses focus stopped down in Live View. You would have to hold down the depth of firmed preview and it it is very difficult to focus accurately in LV in dim light and with the added depth of field.
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I don't believe the G mount lenses focus stopped down in Live View. You would have to hold down the depth of firmed preview and it it is very difficult to focus accurately in LV in dim light and with the added depth of field.
That's a serious problem for me. We now have different people saying different things. Is there a way to resolve this?
Jim
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I don't believe the G mount lenses focus stopped down in Live View. You would have to hold down the depth of firmed preview and it it is very difficult to focus accurately in LV in dim light and with the added depth of field.
I guess I am confused as I believe they do.
In Live View you can set the aperture via the lens, and manually focus in View View with up to 4 magnification settings. You can confirm assist what is in focus with peaking which I use. I can take the 32-64, set the aperture to F 4, manually focus with Live View on a part within the frame and shoot, unless I moved the camera that is in focus. I can then change the aperture to F11 leaving the camera on the same subject manually focus again, via Live View and I am again in focus. I don't see what DOF preview has to do with checking to see if Live View works with lenses stopped down.
Paul Caldwell
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I just setup the GFX, with the 32-64, and in M mode in Live View, took 3 shots,
F4, F11, F16, you can see quite clearly as you move through the aperture range, that there focus shift going on, slight but there. Each aperture required a different manual focus, but I could clearly mange this and get a perfect focus on the subject each time with the GFX, and 32-64, in M mode using Live View.
Paul Caldwell
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I guess I am confused as I believe they do.
In Live View you can set the aperture via the lens, and manually focus in View View with up to 4 magnification settings. You can confirm assist what is in focus with peaking which I use. I can take the 32-64, set the aperture to F 4, manually focus with Live View on a part within the frame and shoot, unless I moved the camera that is in focus. I can then change the aperture to F11 leaving the camera on the same subject manually focus again, via Live View and I am again in focus.
And if you go around to the front of the lens when it's set to f/11 and you're focusing in magnified view on the back, you can see that it's stopped down?
Sorry to be so picky here, but this is a key issue for me.
If that's the case, what's the DOF preview lever for?
Jim
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I guess I am confused as I believe they do.
In Live View you can set the aperture via the lens, and manually focus in View View with up to 4 magnification settings. You can confirm assist what is in focus with peaking which I use. I can take the 32-64, set the aperture to F 4, manually focus with Live View on a part within the frame and shoot, unless I moved the camera that is in focus. I can then change the aperture to F11 leaving the camera on the same subject manually focus again, via Live View and I am again in focus. I don't see what DOF preview has to do with checking to see if Live View works with lenses stopped down.
Paul Caldwell
Try setting the aperture wide open, put the camera in magnified live view, change the aperture and see if there is any change in the depth of field in LV. If the focus doesn't change at all as you close down the aperture, it means the camera focuses in LV wide open. I just checked with the X1D and that's the way it works. I also asked Lloyd Chambers if the focus shift issue could be solved by focusing in live view and he responded that both the X1D and the GFX focus wide open in live view, so no, it won't solve the problem.
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Try setting the aperture wide open, put the camera in magnified live view, change the aperture and see if there is any change in the depth of field in LV. If the focus doesn't change at all as you close down the aperture, it means the camera focuses in LV wide open. I just checked with the X1D and that's the way it works. I also asked Lloyd Chambers if the focus shift issue could be solved by focusing in live view and he responded that both the X1D and the GFX focus wide open in live view, so no, it won't solve the problem.
Do you know if it works the same way with adapted H-series lenses?
Jim
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Do you know if it works the same way with adapted H-series lenses?
Jim
I assume so, as the HC leaf shutter lens doesn't close down until you either make an exposure or use the depth of field preview button.
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And if you go around to the front of the lens when it's set to f/11 and you're focusing in magnified view on the back, you can see that it's stopped down?
Sorry to be so picky here, but this is a key issue for me.
If that's the case, what's the DOF preview lever for?
Jim
My understanding was incorrect. Howard is right. And back to the question by Jim, no, you can't use DOF preview and have the Live View magnified. Not sure what I saw in my previous testing. However the aperture on the lens is not closing until you hit DOF preview, that is correct.
Might be something Fuji can fix later on with Firmware.
Paul Caldwell
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Forgive my ignorance, does live view work the way Jim wants, and I see exactly why this is desirable, in other systems?
Supplementary: if so why not with these cameras, do we know what causes the limitation, other than manufacturers not talking to photographers ( other than "ambassadors" with a large web presence) ;).
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Forgive my ignorance, does live view work the way Jim wants, and I see exactly why this is desirable, in other systems?
Supplementary: if so why not with these cameras, do we know what causes the limitation, other than manufacturers not talking to photographers ( other than "ambassadors" with a large web presence) ;).
It works the way I want it to on a7x cameras with Setting Effect set to ON. It works that way on my D3x, D4, D5, D8oo, and D810 Nikons (or did; some of those are gone now). Of course, it works that way on the M240.
Jim
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It works the way I want it to on a7x cameras with Setting Effect set to ON. It works that way on my D3x, D4, D5, D8oo, and D810 Nikons (or did; some of those are gone now). Of course, it works that way on the M240.
Jim
Really like to use that in combination with splitview on a d810 to get the best compromise on sharpness for the whole image
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My understanding was incorrect. Howard is right. And back to the question by Jim, no, you can't use DOF preview and have the Live View magnified. Not sure what I saw in my previous testing. However the aperture on the lens is not closing until you hit DOF preview, that is correct.
Might be something Fuji can fix later on with Firmware.
Paul Caldwell
Paul, with the GFX, can you focus in magnified Live View while the depth of field button is pressed AND have the EVF adjust the brightness to compensates for stopping down? The X1D works this way. It may be difficult to nail the focus stopped down, but worth a try.
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I have cancelled my GFX order.
Thanks to all for the help.
Jim
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I have cancelled my GFX order.
Thanks to all for the help.
Jim
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. If I may ask, why was that such a deal breaker for you?
Thanks.
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Hi,
It is because the focus shift. Focus changes when stopping down. So, for most accurate focus we would focus at shooting aperture.
Best regards
Erik
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. If I may ask, why was that such a deal breaker for you?
Thanks.
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Hi,
It is because the focus shift. Focus changes when stopping down. So, for most accurate focus we would focus at shooting aperture.
Best regards
Erik
Yes, I have now read Jim's blog. One correction to his blog is that he said that you also can't focus stopped down with the X1D. Actually, you can, by depressing the depth of field preview button. I believe that shows you in the Live View the effect on focus of stopping down. Is that not the case with the GFX?
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Yes. But not zoomed in with Live View.
Paul Caldwell
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Yes. But not zoomed in with Live View.
Paul Caldwell
What happens with the GFX if you are already zoomed in in Live View using manual focus and you depress the depth of field preview button?
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Ok, thanks to some help from the FujiGFX forum, you can have Live View Zoomed in and DOF preview.
I was in S mode on the camera when I checked before and note, this is very poorly discussed if at in the camera manual.
In in M mode, pick any aperture, hit DOF preview, the aperture blades close down (verified by looking at lens) you also see the DOF preview emblem in the viewfinder. Hit zoom, THE DOF INDICATOR GOES OUT, but the aperture blades STAY CLOSED DOWN (verified by looked at front of lens). I have checked the multiple times and it works as I have stated.
So it is possible to zoom and be stopped down. Note, you are always in Live view with mirrorless.
Paul Caldwell
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Yes, I have now read Jim's blog. One correction to his blog is that he said that you also can't focus stopped down with the X1D. Actually, you can, by depressing the depth of field preview button. I believe that shows you in the Live View the effect on focus of stopping down. Is that not the case with the GFX?
I removed the aside about the X1D from the blog. Thanks.
Jim
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Ok, thanks to some help from the FujiGFX forum, you can have Live View Zoomed in and DOF preview.
I was in S mode on the camera when I checked before and note, this is very poorly discussed if at in the camera manual.
In in M mode, pick any aperture, hit DOF preview, the aperture blades close down (verified by looking at lens) you also see the DOF preview emblem in the viewfinder. Hit zoom, THE DOF INDICATOR GOES OUT, but the aperture blades STAY CLOSED DOWN (verified by looked at front of lens). I have checked the multiple times and it works as I have stated.
So it is possible to zoom and be stopped down. Note, you are always in Live view with mirrorless.
Well, snap! (as Chrome says) Looks like I lost my place in line for nothing. By the way, Paul, I quoted you without attribution when I tried to clean up my mess on my blog. Let me know if you want attribution, or if you want the quote removed.
Darn.
Jim
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Ok, thanks to some help from the FujiGFX forum, you can have Live View Zoomed in and DOF preview.
I was in S mode on the camera when I checked before and note, this is very poorly discussed if at in the camera manual.
In in M mode, pick any aperture, hit DOF preview, the aperture blades close down (verified by looking at lens) you also see the DOF preview emblem in the viewfinder. Hit zoom, THE DOF INDICATOR GOES OUT, but the aperture blades STAY CLOSED DOWN (verified by looked at front of lens). I have checked the multiple times and it works as I have stated.
So it is possible to zoom and be stopped down. Note, you are always in Live view with mirrorless.
Paul Caldwell
An you also stay stopped down and magnified AND change the aperture that the lens is set to?
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An you also stay stopped down and magnified AND change the aperture that the lens is set to?
Yes. Works fine. You have to be in M mode as I mentioned before. But the lens stays stopped down at the full zoom mode and allows you to manually adjust for focus. Once you take the picture, lens aperture goes back to being open.
Paul Caldwell
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Yes. Works fine. You have to be in M mode as I mentioned before. But the lens stays stopped down at the full zoom mode and allows you to manually adjust for focus. Once you take the picture, lens aperture goes back to being open.
Paul Caldwell
To be clear, you can change the aperture back and forth and see the effect on depth of field?
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You can change the aperture blades across the scale, and see the effect. Blades are closed down the whole time, never open as in S mode. You can do this while zoomed in also.
Paul Caldwell
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B&H just charged my credit card for the price of the GFX so they are apparently shipping again! Just as I was resigned to not getting the camera in time for my Arizona trip in two weeks.
Day. Made. ;D
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Here in Germany the body is available also the 63mm and the 120mm. But not the zoom. No way...