Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Kevin Raber on January 16, 2017, 05:01:04 pm
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I have published a review on the Hasselblad X1D Camera on the home page. It's a long review with a video and an explanation of the settings on the X1D. We also have 2 new features for this site introduced in this review. One feature is a before and after slide over. We also have 100% zoom on the sample images. Click on an image and it will open a new window. You use the magnifier icon to zoom in. You can pan and scroll around the image. You can then return to the article which should be in a separate window. Or, you can click on the arrow in the upper left corner and you go to a gallery of other images you can click on.
Bottom line I like this camera a lot. Hasselblad needs to round out the lens offering as quickly as possible. It's going to be interesting seeing how the X1d, Pentax, Fuji and GX all do in this space.
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Thanks for the review Kevin. I was a little confused by this statement:
"On the rear of the camera are two other buttons. These are easy to reach with your thumb when shooting. They are AE lock and AF drive button. This is the first camera that actually gets the idea that many us like a rear AF button."
I've been using a rear AF button for fifteen years on my Nikon, Canon and Olympus cameras. I wore the text off the AF button on my D700. :*) Are you talking about something else, or do you mean this is the first Hasselblad with this feature?
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Most of the time you need to custom set a button on the back of many cameras to make it auto-focus.
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Thanks for the review.
GPS was either not installed or working on the camera I was using. When it works, it will be a great tool, especially for the landscape photographer.
For your information, none of the demo cameras and none of the customer shipment cameras [so far] have GPS, contrary to the specs and contrary to the interview(s) you had with the Hasselblad leaders. Disappointing for a landscape photographer who enjoys geotagging.
Also, I pre-ordered the camera and two lenses the day following the announcement and am still waiting on the camera. >:(
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Solid review of the camera and its functionality. Thanks much for that.
Sadly, no one has a clue if the end users who ordered back in July will ever actually see the cameras they've paid for. Sensor availability and version 1 firmware not being locked until the end of November doesn't line up with where we are now; zero end user cameras having been shipped halfway through January...
If the above issues were the real problem, HB would've been shipping in "real," albeit small, quantities a month and a half ago.
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It will be interesting to see how it competes against the Fuji MF mirrorless. Rumored prices are $2K less for the Fuji body.
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I don't really understand how batteries discharging 50% overnight, and repeated over exposures requiring batteries to be removed, can be called "minor issues". These kinds of faults would be headline news if they happened in a $1200 Canon or Nikon product at launch. Why does a $9000 camera get off so lightly?
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It will be interesting to see how it competes against the Fuji MF mirrorless. Rumored prices are $2K less for the Fuji body.
Actually more than that. Latest rumor on the price is $6500 for body only. I'm not sure if that price includes the EVF. Another rumor is that Fuji will be also making an adapter for the Hasselblad H mount. And supposedly it will start shipping in late February.
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For your information, none of the demo cameras and none of the customer shipment cameras [so far] have GPS, contrary to the specs and contrary to the interview(s) you had with the Hasselblad leaders. Disappointing for a landscape photographer who enjoys geotagging.
Hi Joe
There is a GPS unit but it's external (hotshoe) and included as part of the package.
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Thanks for the review Kevin!
It's exciting to see Hasselblad and Fuji coming up with "affordable" small sized medium format camera. While I am not interested in the first generation of the stuff, it bodes well for price reduction and quality improvements over the years.
For the moment, I am content with my FF camera and high quality glass, I cannot justify the price of a medium format system, but I am happy competition is starting to have an impact on the MF technology.
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I rented a X1D over the weekend and I have a few things to add to Kevin's article.
- I left the battery in the X1D on the nights of: Friday, Saturday and Sunday and each morning the battery was at 100%.
- You press the AF/MF button for 1 second to unlock the focus point selection, not for 3 seconds.
- I only made roughly 400 exposures but none of them went crazy overexposed.
- I too got fed up with Phocus :)
- I am very excited about the X1D
Erik
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Having occasionally criticized Lula in recent months let me hasten to applaud Kevin for this excellent extensive and expert review. It is exactly what I have always expected and relished in the best work of Lula over the years. A really worthwhile contribution for those of us interested in a factual analysis of what this year seems likely to offer at the frontline of photography developments.
Thank you Kevin very much indeed, In the highest traditions of Lula.
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I have not watched the video yet, so maybe you cover it there, but I am curious about the absence of image stabilization. The photographs shown look great, but were there any problems given the large pixel count? I would most often use this camera on a tripod, but it would be nice to be able to handhold for urban architecture while walking a city.
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Thanks, Kevin, for the review; it made me think! I would be interested to know how it stacks up against the competition. It is a 50MP medium format camera, but there are already others with this number of pixels, e.g. the Canon 5DS & 5DS R bodies, albeit with smaller sensors. In the UK a national supplier is selling these at £2799 and £2999 respectively. A London Hasselblad supplier is advertising the X1D for £6490, body only. For the price of the X1D I could get both Canon bodies and have some change. What makes the X1D worth considering? Is it the IQ, the versatility, the name, the style or ...? To me the first two are important and it would be nice to see some comparisons. Given the history of Hasselblad and its film camera reputation, I am pleased to see that there is demand for the X1d beyond manufacturer expectations. However, in these days of stiff competition and fast changing technology (the time period of the modern version of Moore's Law seems to be getting shorter and shorter), how will it stand up in the marketplace?
Jonathan
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The shutter sound Kevin described is very much like that on my Leica M-240 when using the EVF. On the Leica when the shutter button is pressed the shutter must first close, then open & close to the take the exposure, and finally re-open to return to LV/EVF mode. A lot of clickety clacks and a challenge for photographing dynamic subjects. Hopefully this is not what's happening with the X1D
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Thank you Kevin for the review. I am intruîqued by the comments on shutter lag and noisy shutter. One would think lag could be dealt with by a firmware fix but a noisy shutter, that sounds not fixable and as it is in the lens even more so without a period of time with a camera and no lenses.
When I had my demo it sounded different, but I couldn't tell about lag. I could live with the noisy shutter if I could forsee a time when it would be better/quieter.....
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A few comments, Image quality is very good but as expected with a 50MP sensor. The IQ from a Pentax is just as nice. The Canon also has a fine IQ but I found IQ from the Canon it didn't hold together as well at higher ISO and had less dynamic range. We covered that in an article pretty extensively a while back in an article by Micahel Tapes. Based on what I have seen I would think the Fuji GFX to be of similar IQ. As the weeks progress, I believe those interested in a 50MP camera are going to have look at a lot of things. Look and feel plays a big part. Lens availibilty, Leaf shutter vs Focal Plane shutter. Shutter responsiveness. Frames Per Second shooting speed. AF sensors, does it have good and fast CF, Does it have tracking? Can you zone AF?
I'll know a lot more about the Fuji system in the coming days. I also believe there may be other entries into this field in the not so distant future. I'll get a chance to review the Fuji and will but it through its paces.
As far as the shutter in the X1d it is as I described. You can also listen to it on the video I did. There is a lot happening to take a photo. I know there is a shutter lag because I pressed the shutter button as explained in the review on a couple of times and thought I'd caught the shot and I didn't. We'll have to see if the Fuji has the same thing.
Michael Tapes comparison of ISOs . - https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7r-ii-review-dynamic-range-compared-to-canon-5dsr-canon-1dx-and-nikon-d810/
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For the price of the X1D I could get both Canon bodies and have some change.
Hi Jonathan,
I have been shooting with the 5DSr for a while now. The pixel count is just the first part of the story, the pixel size is another one. When you look at the files Kevin uploaded at different ISO increments, you can see that the darks are essentially noise free beyond base ISO. The 5DSr is a great tripod camera if I may. Leave it at ISO 100, turn on mirror lock up and 2 second delay and you got yourself a perfectly capable imaging device with plenty of detail. Plus you can save a bit of money on top of that and get the best glass for the money...
Felix
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Most of the time you need to custom set a button on the back of many cameras to make it auto-focus.
Not with Nikon - at least not with the D800 line.
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Hi,
EFCS (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) can eliminate that lag.
First info from Hasselblad and Ming Tein indicated that Hasselblad was using sensor reset in combination with the shutter to achieve high shutter speeds. In that scenario there would not be any need to close, open, close shutter. It would stay open before and during the exposure. The shutter would close after exposure, to allow readout from the exposed sensor and than open again to allow live view. So, two clicks would be needed, around 0.3 s between, at the end of exposure.
Best regards
Erik
Thank you Kevin for the review. I am intruîqued by the comments on shutter lag and noisy shutter. One would think lag could be dealt with by a firmware fix but a noisy shutter, that sounds not fixable and as it is in the lens even more so without a period of time with a camera and no lenses.
When I had my demo it sounded different, but I couldn't tell about lag. I could live with the noisy shutter if I could forsee a time when it would be better/quieter.....
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Thank you Kevin for the review! I do find the shut sound a bit disturbing and think that in some situations and with some subjects it would be a draw back. Also I think the shutter lag could be a real problem as faces and conditions can change quickly! Still I remain intrigued and open, while waiting for more grits for the mill.
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Please note that I boosted the sound level of the shutter during the sequence of the video where Kevin is describing the multiple click nature of the X1D shutter release. Additionally Kevin was intentionally holding the camera close to his chest-mounted lavalier microphone so that the shutter sound sequence was more audible.
Viewers should not judge the volume of the shutter noise from the video since the sound level was boosted so that viewers could hear it clearly!
I believe Kevin's main point was that the shutter has a multiple click sound and that it is hard to know exactly where within that pattern of clicks the actual capture takes place
Chris Sanderson
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Does anyone happen to know as a technical matter why there would be "shutter lag" with the X1D? I use Hasselblad leaf shutter lenses with an H2 body and I have never noticed any shutter lag. Is there something about the use of leaf shutter lenses with a mirrorless camera? Obviously, this is an issue with portraits, but it can also be an issue with landscapes under certain circumstances where there is a critical moment.
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I am expecting to hear from Hasselblad on c few things in my review, shutter lag and sound being one of them I'll publish what I hear from them, when I hear from them.
Also, as an update. There does not seem to be GPS built in, at least at this time. It looks like a GPS unit will be an add-on accessory that will attach with the accessory show.
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I am expecting to hear from Hasselblad on c few things in my review, shutter lag and sound being one of them I'll publish what I hear from them, when I hear from them.
Also, as an update. There does not seem to be GPS built in, at least at this time. It looks like a GPS unit will be an add-on accessory that will attach with the accessory show.
On the latter point, built-in GPS, the question I would ask is "Why?" The original spec and their interview with you very clearly stated built-in GPS, hence one of the plastic parts at the top of the camera. The answer could be any one of a number of reasons - heat, power drain, space inside the camera for components, firmware, cost - but it feels to me like a feature Hasselblad has decided to leave out AFTER the initial announcement and the subsequent marketing effort at Photokina. I'd also ask if there are other features that have been omitted or modified from the original specification. Thanks.
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Please note that I boosted the sound level of the shutter during the sequence of the video where Kevin is describing the multiple click nature of the X1D shutter release. Additionally Kevin was intentionally holding the camera close to his chest-mounted lavalier microphone so that the shutter sound sequence was more audible.
Viewers should not judge the volume of the shutter noise from the video since the sound level was boosted so that viewers could hear it clearly!
I believe Kevin's main point was that the shutter has a multiple click sound and that it is hard to know exactly where within that pattern of clicks the actual capture takes place
Chris Sanderson
Thank you for the additional information. I'll have to hear again in person!
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from the video .... "announced over a year ago" ? I'm sure to some it feels like that, but June 22 2016 was not over a year ago.
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Yes, June 22nd was right. But in an interview I did with Perry it was hinted at and the rumor mill was going. In any case when speaking in front of the video it sometimes comes out to when it was first discussed. The article states the dates correctly. Sorry for any confusion.
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On the latter point, built-in GPS, the question I would ask is "Why?" The original spec and their interview with you very clearly stated built-in GPS, hence one of the plastic parts at the top of the camera. The answer could be any one of a number of reasons - heat, power drain, space inside the camera for components, firmware, cost - but it feels to me like a feature Hasselblad has decided to leave out AFTER the initial announcement and the subsequent marketing effort at Photokina. I'd also ask if there are other features that have been omitted or modified from the original specification. Thanks.
GPS was always intended to be built in but the way the camera body is made apparently meant that the unit could not reliably get a signal despite the plastic part. This is why it is now a separate unit.
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Here the GPS module!!
Picture taken from the Hasselblad website
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GPS was always intended to be built in but the way the camera body is made apparently meant that the unit could not reliably get a signal despite the plastic part. This is why it is now a separate unit.
Here the GPS module!!
Picture taken from the Hasselblad website
Thanks guys. Looks unobtrusive enough. Now I can calm down and wait for my camera. Only about 7 months and counting since my pre-order.
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Why isn't it possible to set the copyright information in the camera...?!
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Please note that I boosted the sound level of the shutter during the sequence of the video where Kevin is describing the multiple click nature of the X1D shutter release. Additionally Kevin was intentionally holding the camera close to his chest-mounted lavalier microphone so that the shutter sound sequence was more audible.
Viewers should not judge the volume of the shutter noise from the video since the sound level was boosted so that viewers could hear it clearly!
I believe Kevin's main point was that the shutter has a multiple click sound and that it is hard to know exactly where within that pattern of clicks the actual capture takes place
Chris Sanderson
On the issue of shutter lag. The X1D works with strobes. Has anyone checked to see if the strobes fire instantaneously upon depressing the shutter?
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Yes the strobes fire instantaneously upon depressing the shutter.
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I received the shipping notice from B&H on the camera (ordered on June 23) and all three lenses. ;D
No spare battery yet though. Backordered.
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Yes the strobes fire instantaneously upon depressing the shutter.
If you are in TTL strobe mode that could be the pre-flash. Make sure you are shooting in manual flash to evaluate where the flash fires with relation to the actual picture being taken.
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Yes the strobes fire instantaneously upon depressing the shutter.
Then how can there be shutter lag? Wouldn't the flash be off by the time the exposure was made if there were a delay?
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I really wish Hasselblad would be a bit more open about their lens roadmap.
Because this post https://plus.google.com/116458677975033889029/posts/NdVHsqGuKJa has made me paranoid I have to splash out on a H lenses as well!
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Then how can there be shutter lag? Wouldn't the flash be off by the time the exposure was made if there were a delay?
Because you can't do it with TTL flash on and get any information since in TTL there is a preflash at shutter button trip that preceeds the main flash firing - most people have too much image latency in their eyes to discern the pre-pulse from the main pulse. This is why I said you have to do it in manual flash to determine when the image is being taken as there is no pre-flash.
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Because you can't do it with TTL flash on and get any information since in TTL there is a preflash at shutter button trip that preceeds the main flash firing - most people have too much image latency in their eyes to discern the pre-pulse from the main pulse. This is why I said you have to do it in manual flash to determine when the image is being taken as there is no pre-flash.
So if you tested it with manual flash and there was no delay in the flash being triggered, presumably there should be no delay in the shutter being tripped.
Thanks. Hopefully somebody will test it. It would be very helpful to know if this is really an issue.
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So if you tested it with manual flash and there was no delay in the flash being triggered, presumably there should be no delay in the shutter being tripped.
Thanks. Hopefully somebody will test it. It would be very helpful to know if this is really an issue.
Correct as the flash has to be synced with the actual exposure.
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Hasselblad X1D 90 mm lens seems to be very sharp. We have compared the image quality between X1D, Phase One XF/IQ50 and Canon 5Dsr and noticed that Hasselblad XCD 3,2/90mm is sharper in the corners than Schneider Kreuznach 110mm LS f/2.8. Not what we have expected – SK 110 are a really stunning lens.
You can see the comparison on youtube (made in October 2016) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD3An09hmjU&t=2s
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The XCD 90mm is a true gem. It's perhaps the best 90mm lens I've ever used, and I know one other X1D owner that feels the same way. The XCD 45mm is no slouch either.
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Hi,
A couple of observations:
1) The Hasselblad X1D uses CDAF (Contrast Detect AF) that is in general a bit slow but very accurate. So, accurate focus gives the Hasselblad an edge.
2) Most really good lenses I have seen are sharpest around f/4 or f/5.6, so I generally see a clearly observable fall off in sharpness at f/8. The X1D 90 mm lens shows this quiet clearly in the video, both at centre and at corner. That indicates its a very good lens that is correctly focused.
3) I don't see this fall of of sharpness on either the Canon or the Phase One, that sort of indicates correct focus was not achieved. Accurate focus is of course a real advantage to the X1D.
4) I feel it is a bit absurd to compare the Canon 70-200/2.8 with MFD primes, although it is a very good zoom.
5) Regarding the overexposure/highlight recovery it is a bit of a nonsense. If something is clipped it cannot be recovered. What is probably happening is that the MFD systems underexpose a bit in order to protect highlights. To really analyse this you need to check the raw histograms, using a tool like RawDigger.
6) Default settings in Capture One blow out images exposed ETTR, so an image that looks OK in C1 at defaults is always underexposed. See attachments below, same image shot on P45+ processed in C1 looks overexposed and lacks highlight detail using default rendition while the LR image is a bit boring but shows a decent amount of highlight detail. The third image shows the effect of switching curve from 'Auto' to 'linear scientific' in C, 'Auto' left and 'linear scientific' to the right.
Aside from the points mentioned I would say that it is a quiet good demo and I am quite sure the XCD 3,2/90mm is a stunning lens. (Well, I cheated and checked out the MTF curves published by Hasselblad, and those curves are world class).
Best regards
Erik
Hasselblad X1D 90 mm lens seems to be very sharp. We have compared the image quality between X1D, Phase One XF/IQ50 and Canon 5Dsr and noticed that Hasselblad XCD 3,2/90mm is sharper in the corners than Schneider Kreuznach 110mm LS f/2.8. Not what we have expected – SK 110 are a really stunning lens.
You can see the comparison on youtube (made in October 2016) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD3An09hmjU&t=2s
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Hi Kevin,
I'm new on the forum. I have enjoyed your very balanced review. There is one feature of the X1D that nobody has pointed out: half-pressing the shutter release does not lock the exposure, but only focus. To lock an exposure reading one must press the AEL button. For those who are used to lock both focus and exposure and then recompose, this means having odd exposures now and then. This may be addressed in further firmware upgrades. I enjoy working with the camera very much. I do hope that the slow startup and the shutter lag will be fixed.
Best wishes
Pierluigi
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I've read various hand on experiences with the X1D almost all of which report EVF lag but very few reporting shutter lag. I wonder if there could be confusion between the two and if Kevin or anyone else with hands on experience could add further clarification?
What has been reported as shutter lag is more accurately described as EVF/Live View "blackout". Since I, and some of the other early users, didn't know what was happening during the blackout (three distinct click sounds), we assumed it was shutter lag. Now that a few photographers have tested the camera with a flash, they have determined that there is no excessive shutter lag but there is an EVF/Live View blackout that delays the ability to make the next exposure in AF-S mode.
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New firmware for the X1D available...
http://www.hasselblad.com/x-system/x1d-50c