Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Pluminland on January 11, 2017, 03:25:51 pm
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Today while printing I got the 86:01 Printer jammed error.
I have removed the paper and check to see if there were any chunks of leftover paper inside. None that I can see.
The printhead carriage is stuck pretty much on the left side of the Z3200. I an move it to the right about the lenght of the carriage itself, but then it won't move anymore. I have not tried to force it as that does not seem like a good idea to me. Using a flashlight I have inspected the path the carriage takes and I can't see anything blocking its movement. The belt seems fine.
Any suggestions as to how I might fix this? Or what I can do to further diagnose the problem.
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The left side is where the the cutter is. If the carriage is stuck on the left side after moving it over there, it is likely that the cutter is having a problem. Like possibly it was installed incorrectly, or has become loose or jammed, etc.
It is a replaceable part. You might need to open up the left side and put a new one in.
But first, see if you can free the carriage. Get a flashlight and carefully check to see if there is anything obstructing the belt going to and in through the pulleys, and if there is something restricting the carriage on the right by the stepper motor gear. Try moving the carriage left and right in little steps.
Nest. Just unplug the printer and wait about an hour. make sure the switch is in the off position. Turn the switch on with your hand by the power cord. Wait for the carriage to start moving then unplug the cord. Now the carriage should move freely. Go left, then right and see if anything is blocking it.
Move it all the way to the right until it clicks.
Make sure printer switch is off, then plug power cord back in. Roll up a piece of letter size paper into a cone and stick it in the hole in the upper right of the open cover. (This deactivates the safety switch.)
Turn the printer's switch to on and watch carefully what happens.
See if the carriage moves from the right to the left smoothly and what happens when it get's to the left.
Use your flashlight carefully watching, checking. See if the printer wants to initialize.
And as this is your first post welcome to the forum. Be kind enough to respond back, report your findings and if the printer works because of help here on the forum, please don't run off yelling YAY!!!!, Let us know what has happened.
Try what I'm suggesting and get back to us.
Mark
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Hi and thanks for the advice.
I did observe the printer trying to initialize. It moved the carriage far to the left and tried to slide it to the right, but stopped when something blocked it. So the printer wants to do the right thing but is being blocked for some reason. I also tried freeing the carriage, but it simply does not want to move past a certain point.
One thing I noticed is the the drive belt is starting to shred.
Am I having fun yet? :-)
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If you plan to call a service technician, then you need to shut it down now. If the belt is starting to shred - don't play with it anymore because it will just come apart and get all over everything inside.
You can find instructions to Replace the Z3200 Carriage Belt - Notes - z3200.com (http://z3200.com/Belt_replacement_HP-Z3100_Printers-Z3200.htm)
It's a little tricky - so if you can afford a local technician, it might be your best bet.
If you are mechanically inclined and have skills in that vein, read up on it, watch the video and think about whether you think you can do it yourself first before jumping out there. There are several successes but some folks have failed to complete it. Most who get into it actually make it, but it is involved.
The video by Bryan Glynn is your friend.
Good luck.
-Mark
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I'll back up what Mark said. If you're reasonably technically competent, taking your time, the belt can be replaced. I did it myself over a day going slowly step by step following Bryan Glynn's video (What a champ!) on my old Z3100.
Neal
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I'll back up what Mark said. If you're reasonably technically competent, taking your time, the belt can be replaced. I did it myself over a day going slowly step by step following Bryan Glynn's video (What a champ!) on my old Z3100.
Neal
+1
It took me a day-
clean your room
work relaxt; put all the things that come out in a logical order and make photographs of how it was before you started...
It is a lot of work, but not very difficult. It is a well made machine.
After my repair it worked at once...
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Thanks for the advice and support. I think I am going to give it a shot myself unless somebody tells me HP will replace it for $100 plus parts. :D
I talked to a fellow whose father replaced the belt in his Z3100. He bought a bunch of small containers and some labels. Everything he removed from the machine was put into a container and labeled. He also photographed things every which way imaginable, both before and after removing stuff. He watched the video several times and then watched it as he did the work.
FWIW, any idea what an HP tech would charge to replace the belt? Are there non-HP techs who are cheaper?
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Sandwich bags and sticky-notes.
Use your iPhone to document as you go (before you do stuff).
I don't know where you live so I don't know what technicians cost where you are.
You can do it if you think you can.
Study the website and the video thoroughly.
Z3200.COM (http://z3200.com)
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The independent tech I have here in Atlanta charges $180.00/hr and if you have the part they will put it in . Hp will charge you more than that I'm pretty sure but call them it might not be that much more.
john
Sandwich bags and sticky-notes.
Use your iPhone to document as you go (before you do stuff).
I don't know where you live so I don't know what technicians cost where you are.
You can do it if you think you can.
Study the website and the video thoroughly.
Z3200.COM (http://z3200.com)
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I called HP about my Z3200 before Mark started helping me and was told to find an authorized repair provider I think HP may no longer service Zs. In the past they would come to my house. The chat person clearly new Zs and suggested booting in maintenance mode but that didn't help me.
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Thanks. I tried booting in maintenance mode but it won't do that due to the error message. The error message seems to override the ability to boot into anything, maint or regular.
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Thanks. I tried booting in maintenance mode but it won't do that due to the error message. The error message seems to override the ability to boot into anything, maint or regular.
Did you first put the carriage manually to the right side, more or less?
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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You might try cleaning the encoder strip with a soft rag and some distilled water. Clamp the moistened soft cloth around the strip and run it along gently wiping. Get a flashlight and see if there is ink or crud on it anywhere. As Ernst suggests, run the carriage head to the right, and if you can, until it clicks.
Cleaning the service station is an important thing to do as well.
Always do a shutdown, turning the switch off, then pull the plug and wait at least 5-10 minutes.
Re-booting the printer several times this way can make a difference. If you leave the printer unplugged for an hour or more, it will reset itself.
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Well, so far, I can't push the carraige to the right since it is stuck on the left side. I won't force it.
I will try unplugging it for a few hours.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
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Well, so far, I can't push the carraige to the right since it is stuck on the left side. I won't force it.
I will try unplugging it for a few hours.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
Before I can give you anymore thoughts on how to move forward, I will need to know more details about the printer.
Did you buy it new?
How long have you had it?
Has it been serviced before?
Has it had the belt changed?
If you bought it used, how long ago?
Has the printer ever worked properly for you, printed perfectly, etc?
How long has the current problem been going on?
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Before I can give you anymore thoughts on how to move forward, I will need to know more details about the printer.
Did you buy it new? Yes.
How long have you had it? Aproximately 7 years
Has it been serviced before? No, other than me very carefully wiping off dust and stuff that accumulates on and in the print area.
Has it had the belt changed? No. that has to be done.
If you bought it used, how long ago? N/A
Has the printer ever worked properly for you, printed perfectly, etc? Yes, it has worked very well for 7 years. Up to know most 'problems' have been fixed with either a new printhead or turning it off and turning it on again.
How long has the current problem been going on? It started in early January 2017.
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OK, Thanks. That helps.
I suspect you have a bad cutter.
GO TO THIS PAGE (http://z3200.com/open-front-cover.htm)
Onecan check more carefully what is happening with the printhead carriage by inspecting it with the cover open.
So if you make sure the switch is in the off position in the back, then plug the power cord in and turn the switch in the back next to the power cord, does the carriage move at all? What does the front panel say? Does in begin to initialize?
Notice that there is a link for instructions for replacing the cutter on that page.
Without being there, and given that you have stated you don't see anything obstructing the belt or pulley or gear of the stepper motor, or anything in the way of the carriage and that it is hung on the left side, I'm pretty sure your printhead carriage is fouled in the cutter.
It's not a big job to replace the cutter. You can take the left cover off and do some exploring.
Here is the link to the HP document for replacing the cutter on HP series printers. (http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c01564502&sp4ts.oid=3737557)
Hope this helps.
Mark
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I thought I would post an update on my repairs to the Z3200 if for no other reason that it adds to the knowledge database of this printer.
I managed to take my Z3200 apart following the video and the manual. I doubt I could have done it without the video.
I did find the problem that cause the printhead carriage to stick on the left side of the printer. As the belt deteriorated, a strand of reinforcing fabric in the belt came loose, but did not break. Instead this bit of 'string' from the belt wrapped itself around the drive gear connected to the belt motor. Thus, preventing the belt from moving at all and causing the gear to further grind up the belt.
Now for the bad news. As I was replacing the print carriage to which I had attached my shiney new belt, a small do-hicky fell off the print carriage onto the floor. Then another small something fell onto the floor. It seems that the Q5669-60687 Carriage Rear Bushing For HP T610 T620 Z2100 Z3100 T1100 T770 T790 had broken! Of course, I did not have a replacement. So I ordered one. https://www.lpscomputer.com/products/q5669-60687-designjet-carriage-bushing
I strongly recommend that if you replace the belt you also order one of these bushings with the belt and just replace the thing when you reassemble the printer. Or keep it as a spare in case the old one does not break. The charge for overnight shipment of it is about $80, IIRC. My entire timeline for doing this repair went into the toilet because of this one little part.
I did find this message from 2012, once again proving that this site is an excellent source of information.
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=69276.0
Right now I am waiting for the bushing since I figure I might as well replace it before reassembling the entire printer. I have wrapped my ink cartridges in foil and plastic wrap to keep them from drying out, and the print heads are in plastic sandwich bags for the same reason. I hope it works.
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But first, see if you can free the carriage. Get a flashlight and carefully check to see if there is anything obstructing the belt going to and in through the pulleys, and if there is something restricting the carriage on the right by the stepper motor gear. Try moving the carriage left and right in little steps.
Mark
I thought that was the case that something was stuck. Thanks for reporting back in. I try to warn about the rear carriage bushing but even so, it pops out and breaks so easily, that unless you have had some experience with it, it just happens.
Glad to hear you have taken it on. I will mention to remember to put a few drops of oil in the bushing before you close it all back up.
See bottom of page about oiling rear carriage bushing (http://z3200.com/Rear_Carriage_%20Bushing-HP-Z3200_Printers-Mark%20Lindquist.htm)
Also be aware that when you do your testing you will get the 59:11 error. It's a bug. Just go on - ignore it. This is a well known scan axis bug.
Good luck with reassembly.
EDIT:
By the way, since you've had the printer for 7 years and it's sitting there open, I suggest you do get a new cutter for it. Also, you might think about replacing the power supply fan. Seven years is a long time for a non-ballbearing fan to be running 24/7/365. It will begin to squeal then fail at some point. Just mentioning this as frequently, folks get the printer up and running then the fan fails. That too is a known issue. Just a suggestion, as long as it down and open, now is a good time if you are up to it.
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Thanks. Alas, the person mentioned does not seem to have them anymore.
In any case, I ordered two bushings since they are so flimsy and easy to break. With a little luck I will have the printer working sometime next month.
Again, if you are replacing the belt and you don't want to wait an additional week, just order the bushing and replace it with the belt, or keep it as a spare. IMHO, it is an extraordinarily flimsy piece of plastic that the printer needs to have.
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Yes, correct it is flimsy and yes it is required.
Just a correction - when running the diagnostic tests, your printer will surely fail the color sensor test - it's error code 58:11.
Carriage Assembly Test (page 4-27 service manual)
It will come up as:
ERROR 58:11
FAIL DeltaE out of limits.
92.000 > 8
Just ignore it. This is very important to know ahead of time, just like knowing about the rear carriage bushing.
BTW - the guy on eBay, Oldva, who makes the heavier bushing sometimes has them on eBay and sometimes not.
His are definitely heavier duty and work great.
I may get back in touch with him and see what his manufacturing schedule is.
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I replaced the belt and re-assembled the printer. Turned it on.
Alas, it thinks the window is open and won't continue. Very frustrating. Perhaps I damaged or mis-installed the window sensor. But, it seems silly that this halts the entire operation of the printer. The window is down. I wish I could tell it to over ride the problem and continue. I would like to know if my repair worked.
Nothing is ever simple.
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Yeah, you may have buggered the limit switch. Recheck to see that it is plugged in properly and not pinched or frayed.
Follow these instructions and see if it helps. (http://z3200.com/open-front-cover.htm)
If you put the rolled up paper in the hole as illustrated, it will help you troubleshoot your issue.
Turn off the printer - pull the plug, wait about 5 minutes, then restart with the paper in the hole.
If nothing happens, you have a bad switch or connection. And yes, it absolutely always is something! Fuhgeddaboudit. You're almost there.
Stay the course, it will all be worth it. A switch is cheap.
Mark
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Just for fun I ran some of the diagnostic tests built into the print. I have not het had a chance to take it apart to get at the wincow sensor. Hopefully, I will do that this weekend.
But...
According the carriage test I now have this problem:
2x.1:10
Ink supply error found during IDS diagnostic test. The n represents the ink supply that is failing. The ink supply furthest to the left is always 0, and then they count up from left to right. The following graphic illustrates this for the Z3100/Z3200.
Apparently, a pen voltage is "out of limits".
The fix is to replace the left ink supply station. Any thoughts?
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You really can't rely on diagnostic testing until the printer has initialized after repairs. That error message could be the result of a low ink cartridge. You'd have to check that the cartridge is at least 40% full and that the printheads associated with it are in order.
If you fix the cover limit switch and it runs with the cover closed, then you can start on your diagnostic testing.
The error codes can be incorrect for various reasons. Usually after repairs there are error code issues anyway. If you read the manual you'll see that it is advised to run the diagnostic codes before taking the printer apart.
In order to test if the ink supply is failing, you'd have to do a bongo test, which is extremely involved, which means unseating each cartridge, running the test per ink line, then replacing each cart doing the bongo test per cart. It requires a new set of carts or a set of starter carts (1/2 size).
The bongo test assures there are no leaks in the lines and the control points. Just one bad cartridge can cause the printer to fail to initialize. So best thing to do is to take things a step at a time, make sure you can close the cover and get the printer to initialize.
If you go looking for trouble with error codes, you'll easily find it at this stage. Just about everything is out of calibration since having been taken apart.
Hopefully, once you get the cover closed and working, everything will fall into place. If you find things wrong with the printer that weren't wrong before you took it apart, you can safely deduce that it has been incorrectly reassembled.
BTW - I contacted OLDVA on eBay and asked about his rear carriage bushings and he said he had made so many of them that his moulds wore out. He said he's going to make new moulds and begin a new manufacturing cycle. Since you already have 2 new ones it's a mute point, but I said I would contact him, and that was his answer.
Mark
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Thanks Mark. I'll attack the 'open window' problem later this week, then run the diagnostics. In for a penny, in for a pound. :-)
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I opened up the Z3200 yesterday and found that the window sensor had come lose from the metal frame that holds it in place. I snapped it back in and re-attached it to the frame. The sensor now works fine.
I still get the Paper jam message. I can easily move the carriage from right to left and back with no problem. So, I am thinking I need to run the diagnostic tests and calibration tools so the printer actually knows where the carriage really is. Does that make sense?
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Yes, you can run the diagnostics now. Make sure you turn off the printer first and switch it off in the back, then unplug it for at least 5 minutes.
Make sure the print head carriage is all the way to the right.
Plug it back in and turn it on with the switch in the back. Very important.
Follow the guidelines for the diagnostic test, remembering that the color sensor test will fail most assuredly.
When they say to use glossy paper, use glossy paper.
Be certain your inks are at least 40% full.
Once you're done, reset the printer indicating it's a new belt.
Easy does it, looks like you're almost there. Good luck.
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Alas even after unplugging the Z3200 for almost an hour and then restarting it, it still has the paper jam message. What is odd is that I can move the carriage from one side to the other by hand with no problem. Also, during one of the tests I did earlier today, the printer moved the carriage completely to the left and back to the right with no problem. Obviously the new belt must be working.
So, why in the world does it think there is a paper jam? Perhaps some sensor is jammed? Or maybe the encoder strip is bad?
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Question? Have you replaced the battery on the formatter board?
You should know how to take that out - just remove the screws - take the cord and lan or usb cables out and pull up by the handles.
Look on the board for the battery - go find a replacement battery, reinstall the battery and reinstall the formatter board. Make sure it is well seated. Also, I recommend you plug your printewr into a UPS that's plugged into a different outlet than the one you are using.
Try these things and let's see what happens. If it doesn't fix it, no harm done, and all good practices for running the printer.
I suspect the OOPS (out of paper sensor) is the culprit however. It's another limit switch that can become unplugged or knocked out of place. This media sensor is located beneath the printing platen. It can become unplugged under there or possibly damaged.
So I recommend you check all these things out and see what gives. In for a penny in for a pound.
You're doing fine. Stay the course. You can do this.
Mark
EDIT* Sometimes the lid of the printhead carriage can get a bit out of shape. Open and close the cover using the blue handle, and make sure it's properly seated. Something this small can cause the error.
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Just looking at the printer I can't see any sign of the media detector being bad, but then I'm not sure what I am looking at. :-(
Still working on it. There is nothing much to lose at this point.
It seems that parts are getting hard to find for the Z3200. Mostly they are used/reconditioned parts. Or am I imagining things?
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Here's what you're looking for:
I wouldn't hesitate buying this:
OOPS (http://www.toner2print.com/parts/hp/cover/Q5669-60676/)
Parts come and go. HP is still making the printers - you could always call and ask to buy the part from them if you're not happy with refurbished.
Keep searching -- search different ways, and something should come up for you.
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Thanks Mark. You're a gold mine of information. :-)
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Here are some diagrams from the Service Manual:
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i see the problem now;
too many trees in the printer... ;)
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It's those pesky splinters, apparently...
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It's been a while and I thought I would update this thread. The ending was a bit of a disappointment.
Over the past month I have tried several other things to fix the printer, including nearly disassembling it again and checking for loose connections and anything I may have done wrong reassembling it. I found no problems in that area. I also got a paper sensor and put it in. No difference. Apparently there is a problem in the print carriage. Perhaps it was damaged when the printer seized up? Or maybe I damaged it when I took it apart.
Reluctantly, I decided to sell the printer for parts and found a fellow who had some training in HP products though not this printer. Hopefully, he will get it working or use it for parts.
I will replace it with a smaller printer, to save precious space in my home. Maybe a 17 inch job. Oh well.... It was a good try and I did learn a lot.