Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: douglevy on December 12, 2016, 09:40:15 pm

Title: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: douglevy on December 12, 2016, 09:40:15 pm
https://palettegear.com/

Been keeping an eye on this for a while, much less expensive than the Tangent panels
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Christopher on December 13, 2016, 02:05:19 am
Any reviews?


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Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Jimmy D Uptain on December 13, 2016, 07:39:39 am
I cannot seem to find any documentation that says C1 is supported.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: douglevy on December 13, 2016, 07:41:12 am
It's in their newest Beta release - https://palette.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/229082807-Palette-Beta?utm_source=Palette&utm_campaign=f24d2210a9-Capture+One+Beta&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_374a9317ca-f24d2210a9-119619245&mc_cid=f24d2210a9&mc_eid=1b24c496cb
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 13, 2016, 08:05:38 am
Hi

I hope that MIDI type of controllers will be supported.  They can be found cheap and are "easy" to make.  That means that it would be possible that some small company's do make a small controller.  For example 3 knobs (with rotary encoders) and a few button's.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Doug Peterson on December 13, 2016, 09:32:08 am
https://palettegear.com/

Been keeping an eye on this for a while, much less expensive than the Tangent panels

Indeed, but if you've used both you'd understand why. Tangent is truly professional quality: fit, finish, feel, functionality are all excellent.

Still, it's fantastic news that the ecosystem around C1 is continuing to grow.

(Bias alert, we are a tangent dealer)
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: douglevy on December 13, 2016, 09:50:55 am
I've used neither, but bugged these guys for C1 compatibility more than a year ago. But ultimately, I think it's great that these options are starting to exist, similar to the pfixer panel or game controllers folks are using for lightroom.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: myotis on December 13, 2016, 12:00:59 pm
Hi

I hope that MIDI type of controllers will be supported.  They can be found cheap and are "easy" to make.  That means that it would be possible that some small company's do make a small controller.  For example 3 knobs (with rotary encoders) and a few button's.

I'm not entirely sure what a midi controller is, but this was reported (by a reader) on the Phase one blog as working well with C1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0032XQP1K/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2O8RYPYCA0OB4&coliid=IX9GETCXJ6AZV

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 13, 2016, 03:37:11 pm
Indeed, but if you've used both you'd understand why. Tangent is truly professional quality: fit, finish, feel, functionality are all excellent.

Still, it's fantastic news that the ecosystem around C1 is continuing to grow.

(Bias alert, we are a tangent dealer)
Doug

I don't have any doubt about the quality of the Tangent. 

Alain
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 13, 2016, 03:38:50 pm
I'm not entirely sure what a midi controller is, but this was reported (by a reader) on the Phase one blog as working well with C1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0032XQP1K/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2O8RYPYCA0OB4&coliid=IX9GETCXJ6AZV

Cheers,

Graham

midi is an interface protocol that's widely used in music equipment.  And there lot's of cheap controllers for that (50 euro's or so).



Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 13, 2016, 03:42:51 pm

At the moment I think the interface between the controller and CO is done with keyboard shortcuts or it's at least possible.  Can somebody confirm this?

I think that this makes it even simpler to make a controller.  Seems to me as a nice Teensy project with some buttons and rotary encoders (knobs). 
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: myotis on December 13, 2016, 05:14:07 pm
midi is an interface protocol that's widely used in music equipment.  And there lot's of cheap controllers for that (50 euro's or so).

Ah, as in a mixer ?

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: myotis on December 13, 2016, 05:15:41 pm
At the moment I think the interface between the controller and CO is done with keyboard shortcuts or it's at least possible.  Can somebody confirm this?

I think that this makes it even simpler to make a controller.  Seems to me as a nice Teensy project with some buttons and rotary encoders (knobs).

Keyboard shortcuts seems to be how the controller I linked to above works.

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Doug Peterson on December 13, 2016, 05:31:53 pm
At the moment I think the interface between the controller and CO is done with keyboard shortcuts or it's at least possible.  Can somebody confirm this?

I think that this makes it even simpler to make a controller.  Seems to me as a nice Teensy project with some buttons and rotary encoders (knobs).

The Tangent is a native API connection that Phase One and Tangent collaborated on. It is NOT sending keystrokes/shortcuts.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 13, 2016, 06:56:13 pm
Keyboard shortcuts seems to be how the controller I linked to above works.

Cheers,

Graham

Well it's also mentioned in :

http://blog.phaseone.com/your-shortcuts-to-a-faster-workflow/

Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Jimmy D Uptain on December 13, 2016, 09:15:10 pm
Its funny.
One of the best features of C1 (to me anyway) is the ability to hover the pointer over an adjustment and tune via the scroll wheel. Very fluid.
Its one of the main things that has kept me in the C1 camp.
The Mac version of LR doesn't support this. I know its petty, but its a really nice feature to have.
It appears I can now have that fluid adjustment in LR as well. Of course I'll have to set it up for C1 too, but this will be nice for my LR work.
It'll be here Thursday. Wished I had known about it sooner.
If only I could set it up for Photo Mechanic...hmm
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: myotis on December 14, 2016, 01:18:14 am
Well it's also mentioned in :

http://blog.phaseone.com/your-shortcuts-to-a-faster-workflow/

I see that that the same blog post also mentions another controller

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Razer-Orbweaver-Chroma-Mechanical-Gaming/dp/B013UH30VU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481696046&sr=8-1&keywords=chroma+elite

Both of these look relatively low cost ways of reducing the need to throw a mouse pointer around the screen.

Cheer,

Graham
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: David Grover / Capture One on December 14, 2016, 05:26:19 am
The Tangent is a native API connection that Phase One and Tangent collaborated on. It is NOT sending keystrokes/shortcuts.

Excellent point Doug!

What you have setup for keyboard shortcuts is in no way related to what you can setup for Tangent.

Also accessing a short cut to say move a slider is no where near as fluid as using the Tangent.

Not to mention you can also cycle through modes to change the operation of each panel.  I.e Capture, Adjust, Retouch...

If you want to see it in action, sign up for a webinar tomorrow.

https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rt/5199137867394563073


Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Jimmy D Uptain on December 14, 2016, 06:22:30 am
Excellent point Doug!

What you have setup for keyboard shortcuts is in no way related to what you can setup for Tangent.

Also accessing a short cut to say move a slider is no where near as fluid as using the Tangent.

Not to mention you can also cycle through modes to change the operation of each panel.  I.e Capture, Adjust, Retouch...

If you want to see it in action, sign up for a webinar tomorrow.

https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rt/5199137867394563073



What panel are you using for the webinar?
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: David Grover / Capture One on December 14, 2016, 06:53:02 am


What panel are you using for the webinar?

The whole Element Range.  But the mapping process and functionality is somewhat similar for all.

Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 14, 2016, 09:59:10 am
I see that that the same blog post also mentions another controller

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Razer-Orbweaver-Chroma-Mechanical-Gaming/dp/B013UH30VU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481696046&sr=8-1&keywords=chroma+elite

Both of these look relatively low cost ways of reducing the need to throw a mouse pointer around the screen.

Cheer,

Graham


Have a look at :

http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=25053&p=117041#p117041

A bit over 200 euro's...
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: myotis on December 14, 2016, 10:54:47 am

Have a look at :

http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=25053&p=117041#p117041

A bit over 200 euro's...

Thanks, this is something I had never thought of before, but any of these hardware controllers look like useful additions. I rather like the idea.

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Dan Wells on December 16, 2016, 08:21:43 pm
Is Palette Gear just using keyboard shortcuts, or do they have it working in a more integrated way?

Also, I wonder if Tangent would be interested in making a lower-end photographer-specific product (like the Ripple, but with mostly knobs instead of mostly trackballs). They should be able to get us the same three big knobs and twelve buttons as the Ripple, plus nine or so small knobs instead of the three trackballs, for a Ripple-like price? I suspect a lot of people will pay $350 who won't pay $850 for the Element Kb knob board (and you really want the $600 Element Bt buttons as well) or around $1500 for a Wave. Lower-end video editors would also love this, because they could use it with the existing Ripple to have a cheaper (if not as elegant) version of a Wave or Element...
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 17, 2016, 12:15:13 pm
Is Palette Gear just using keyboard shortcuts, or do they have it working in a more integrated way?

Also, I wonder if Tangent would be interested in making a lower-end photographer-specific product (like the Ripple, but with mostly knobs instead of mostly trackballs). They should be able to get us the same three big knobs and twelve buttons as the Ripple, plus nine or so small knobs instead of the three trackballs, for a Ripple-like price? I suspect a lot of people will pay $350 who won't pay $850 for the Element Kb knob board (and you really want the $600 Element Bt buttons as well) or around $1500 for a Wave. Lower-end video editors would also love this, because they could use it with the existing Ripple to have a cheaper (if not as elegant) version of a Wave or Element...

I expect them to use keyboard shortcuts.

For another example with what could be used to (forget the bright colors, they can be turned off) :

https://store.djtechtools.com/products/midi-fighter-twister

This combined with software that turn midi msg's inside keyboard shortcuts

Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Jimmy D Uptain on December 17, 2016, 01:12:15 pm
My Palette Expert kit came in yesterday.
For Lightroom, it is really nice. For Capture One, not so much. There's no support for the hardware sliders. The knobs appear to be a "direct connect" vs keyboard shortcuts, however they have very limited support.  The buttons are the most "mappable", but the expert kit comes with only two. I think three should be the minimum.
Bear in mind that Capture One support is only in the beta stage. If they can get it to the same level as LR, it will be amazing.
You can map out several profiles for one app and toggle through (with a button). You can have one profile for culling, one for sharpening, etc. But again the support is so limited its not much use (in C1).

Now as far as keyboard shortcuts, yeah it supports that perfectly.
I have mapped out profiles for Photo Mechanic, Safari and my mail apps. It will automatically switch profiles as you switch apps. Very slick.

Now back to the hardware sliders. If you like listening to music while editing, it is a great volume control. I mapped one of the sliders to handle system volume for every profile.

Also, you may want to opt for the pro kit, kinda wished I did.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 18, 2016, 10:18:00 am
For the revolve users that want something cheap and those that want to see what's possible :

https://www.cinema5d.com/midigrade-controller-davinci-resolve-budget/
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Dan Wells on December 21, 2016, 01:35:54 pm
What makes the knob support limited? Do they not really work (too coarse?), or is there only limited mapping (e.g. you can control only certain functions)? I'm also a bit surprised that knobs (sort of) work, but sliders don't - they'd seem like they'd be the same interface - each is sending a single value along a linear scale. The knobs actually seem much more confusing, because they have no endpoint - what do they do when they reach the end of C1's scale?

Dan
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 21, 2016, 05:54:10 pm
What makes the knob support limited? Do they not really work (too coarse?), or is there only limited mapping (e.g. you can control only certain functions)? I'm also a bit surprised that knobs (sort of) work, but sliders don't - they'd seem like they'd be the same interface - each is sending a single value along a linear scale. The knobs actually seem much more confusing, because they have no endpoint - what do they do when they reach the end of C1's scale?

Dan

Well in capture one the knob gives relative commands like (increase by 1, decrease by 1 or sometimes depending on the controller increase by x (>1)) and those are mapped to keyboard shortcuts.

The big problem with sliders (and classic knobs) is that they have a absolute position,  for example "brightness + 25".  When you move to another image, that has for example "brightness -10", the slider is in the wrong position.  Pro controllers often use motorised sliders, they can be moved to another position.

Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: KimALdis on December 22, 2016, 03:07:36 am
midi is an interface protocol that's widely used in music equipment.  And there lot's of cheap controllers for that (50 euro's or so).

Better yet, you can get very useful Midi controllers for tablets and phones. There's a very nice one, Midi Designer, for the iPad that lets you build your own controller layouts with sliders, buttons and dials. Very useful.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: KimALdis on December 22, 2016, 03:09:02 am
The Tangent is a native API connection that Phase One and Tangent collaborated on. It is NOT sending keystrokes/shortcuts.
Is this API available or documented anywhere?
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: myotis on December 22, 2016, 03:42:18 am
Better yet, you can get very useful Midi controllers for tablets and phones. There's a very nice one, Midi Designer, for the iPad that lets you build your own controller layouts with sliders, buttons and dials. Very useful.

Tangent is also available as an iPad/Android app

http://www.tangentwave.co.uk/product/element-vs/

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: KimALdis on December 22, 2016, 05:14:56 am
80 quid, though.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: Jimmy D Uptain on December 22, 2016, 05:44:51 am
I got an email from the folks at Palette.
In short their goal is to have the same control as is in Lightroom. However, it will take some cooperation from Phase One. I hope the folks from Phase One are paying attention.
Not all of us can afford a Tangent setup, and I'm sure there are those that don't wanna pony up for Palette either. However, one would think that P1 would want to appeal to more users, and this is another way of doing it.

I sent back my Expert kit and ordered the Pro. It will be here today, which works out since Palette just released another beta.
Fun times this weekend.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: myotis on December 22, 2016, 05:58:50 am
80 quid, though.

True, but if it works, its still an out of the box solution, for those who are willing to pay.

Cheers,

Graham
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 22, 2016, 09:32:35 am
Hi

I found a cheap midi controller for 89 euro that's highly configurable, the Arturia beatstep.  It has 16 small knobs (rotary encoders) and 1 bigger one and 16 buttons (well drumpads) and can have 16 different presets for them.  I've been playing around with it for a few hours and it's definitely workable.

For those that want my first mappings (controller to midi and midi to keypresses), without any guaranty :

https://www.ann-alain.eu/CO/beatstep_bome.zip


edit: Added a test set of CO shortkey mappings.

Alain
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: douglevy on December 24, 2016, 09:58:43 am
Review - http://shotkit.com/palette-review/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=shotkit&utm_content=Palette%20Review%20-%20Touch%20Editing
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on December 27, 2016, 05:37:22 pm
Review - http://shotkit.com/palette-review/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=shotkit&utm_content=Palette%20Review%20-%20Touch%20Editing

$500 and the dials are not that good, mmm then the element Kb comes in price range.

BTW. I have no problems with my dials on the arturia beatstep (89), but there dented and I'm rather sure that those on the element are better.
Title: Re: palette gear now c1 compatible
Post by: alain on January 04, 2017, 06:32:21 am
Some extra info about using a Arturia Beatstep (about 90 euro's) as controller by another user :

http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=25196


Alain