Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: kers on November 16, 2016, 11:40:33 am

Title: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 16, 2016, 11:40:33 am
The first reviews are on the internet and it seems this new ART lens is something special.
According to the polish review site Lenstip.com the lens can rival with the Zeiss Otus.

http://www.lenstip.com/491.1-Lens_review-Sigma_A_85_mm_f_1.4_DG_HSM_review.html

According to them the lens is sharper than the Otus.
+ autofocus, a big + with F1.4

Diglloyd also tests the lens and is very positive in his first findings.
I have it on order.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Rado on November 16, 2016, 11:57:43 am
Autofocus consistency is the big question mark here (based on the art lenses I already own). I'm waiting for more real world reports before pulling the trigger myself.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: NancyP on November 16, 2016, 12:01:57 pm
Sounds nice. I guess I need to pump iron more often.  ;D
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 16, 2016, 12:37:25 pm
Autofocus consistency is the big question mark here (based on the art lenses I already own). I'm waiting for more real world reports before pulling the trigger myself.

Even if the autofocus is a total failure- you still have a stellar lens at 1/3 of the price of Otus...

I only have the 50mm Art from sigma and it works very well on a d810 body.
The problem with Sigma is they have to deal with more than one type of autofocus.
But the 50mm Sigma has an autofocus problem with focus bracketing-  if i use it with Camranger or Helicon focus it cannot do more than one AF-step at a time.
With a Nikkor you can to do larger steps.

Flare could be a problem, but when i see the images on Diglloyd, it is well coated.
Then Bokeh could be not a nice as ... the Milvius.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Yashika on November 16, 2016, 08:53:13 pm
How does Otus AF perform ... @ 3x the price? :D
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 17, 2016, 12:42:42 am
How does Otus AF perform ... @ 3x the price? :D

But... and a hugely important but... it is very easy to focus manually to perfection.

This being said, I am glad to see Sigma release this lens, great news for all photographers.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Rado on November 17, 2016, 04:52:05 am
Since this is a portrait lens for me I would actually prefer manual focus, but neither AF lenses nor DSLR bodies are friendly to manual focus. Maybe this Sigma will have a longer focus throw, but that still doesn't help much if you can't see properly what you're focusing on. I sometimes put f/1.4 lenses on my ancient film body and shake my head in disbelief at how much better the viewfinders used to be (I do have the fast/precision focusing screen installed in my DSLR, it's still worse).
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 17, 2016, 05:53:24 am
Since this is a portrait lens for me I would actually prefer manual focus, but neither AF lenses nor DSLR bodies are friendly to manual focus. Maybe this Sigma will have a longer focus throw, but that still doesn't help much if you can't see properly what you're focusing on. I sometimes put f/1.4 lenses on my ancient film body and shake my head in disbelief at how much better the viewfinders used to be (I do have the fast/precision focusing screen installed in my DSLR, it's still worse).

unfortunately the focus throw is small...
a quote from lenstip; "Most of its surface is covered by comfortable rubber ribbing. The ring moves smoothly and is well damped – running through the whole distance scale needs a turn through an angle of 120-130 degrees. It is a sensible value for an autofocus device but we admit that a bit bigger angle would be needed for really precise manual settings."
i am with you when you would like a better viewfinder and that they used to be better; it seems the Nikon F3 had a beautiful one.
Both problems are possibly related to autofocus. The viewfinder is compromised by the half translucent mirror. We like to use AF in dark circumstances so the more translucent the mirror becomes.
I can Imagine the focus throw is compromised by the need for a speedy autofocus.
I would love to have a better optical viewfinder myself. But i can understand there is no real solution to do both.
You would need a manual focus body- that nobody makes.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Rob C on November 17, 2016, 06:25:45 am
Since this is a portrait lens for me I would actually prefer manual focus, but neither AF lenses nor DSLR bodies are friendly to manual focus. Maybe this Sigma will have a longer focus throw, but that still doesn't help much if you can't see properly what you're focusing on. I sometimes put f/1.4 lenses on my ancient film body and shake my head in disbelief at how much better the viewfinders used to be (I do have the fast/precision focusing screen installed in my DSLR, it's still worse).


Let me be your echo.

What I'd give for a normal, split-image screen, preferably without the nuisance of microsprisms around it. The Nikon Df was a lost opportunity to do just that, and provide a purpose-built digital body for those manual lenses still around. I think Nikon still markets a few, but I'd need to check that out, but even if they did not, they could sell bodies to people who like digital but also want to use their arsenal of older optics. I wonder how sales would have been affected had they made the two compatible. As often happens in life, people can pay attention to the wrong things and ignore markets already there and panting.

I think Leica made a far better job of staying true to the M ideal when it went digital, than Nikon did tying to ape its own F-line.

Rob
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 17, 2016, 07:03:22 am
...
I think Leica made a far better job of staying true to the M ideal when it went digital, than Nikon did tying to ape its own F-line.
Rob

I think the modern Leica is the Sony ARII
+ Leica's analogue wide angle lenses did not function well in their new digital body...
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: shadowblade on November 18, 2016, 08:04:53 pm
I'm just hoping they release this, as well as all the other Art and Sport series lenses, in Sony E-mount. After all, they've recently said they're planning to produce mor E-mount lenses, and there are surely far more E-mount users than Sigma mount or even A-mount users - enough to justify diverting a production line. Or, if mechanics is an issue, to rework them with motors suited to combined phase-detection and contrast-detection (or intelligent pattern-recognition) use, while keeping the optics the same.

I hope they also release lens profiles to work with all the common converters (ACR, Canon's and Sony's in-house converters, Capture One, etc.) so that it negates the one remaining major advantage of OEM lenses - the ability to automatically and flawlessly correct for distortion, CA and other optical aberrations. Current tools aren't that great for removing complex distortions - fix one corner of an image and the other side gets worse, since it's not a simple linear pattern.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 19, 2016, 07:30:40 am
I'm just hoping they release this, as well as all the other Art and Sport series lenses, in Sony E-mount. ...
Sigma states:
Compatible with the MOUNT CONVERTER MC-11, users of Sony E-Mount cameras can use the lens...
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: shadowblade on November 19, 2016, 07:41:59 am
Sigma states:
Compatible with the MOUNT CONVERTER MC-11, users of Sony E-Mount cameras can use the lens...

Not quite the same, and not nearly as fast as native lenses...
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: RobertJ on November 21, 2016, 06:49:25 am
Don't be fooled.  While the Sigma 85 ART has impressive sharpness, possibly better than the Otus, it has purple/green fringing all over the place, especially in out of focus areas (axial/longitudal chromatic aberration).  It's bad.  Really, really bad!  And I'm actually disappointed, because I was waiting for the reviews to show what I thought would be a great lens for *my* needs, and I would've bought the Sigma if it wasn't for this annoying characteristic. 

The Zeiss Otus has almost zero LoCA by comparison.  I would definitely say the Otus is the clear winner if I had to choose between the two.  I'm not saying it's worth the money, but it is a better lens, IMO.  The Sigma 85 ART reminds me of the lenses from several years ago, with all of it's purple fringing, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 21, 2016, 07:10:37 am
Don't be fooled.  While the Sigma 85 ART has impressive sharpness, possibly better than the Otus, it has purple/green fringing all over the place, especially in out of focus areas (axial/longitudal chromatic aberration).  It's bad.  Really, really bad!  And I'm actually disappointed, because I was waiting for the reviews to show what I thought would be a great lens for *my* needs, and I would've bought the Sigma if it wasn't for this annoying characteristic. 

The Zeiss Otus has almost zero LoCA by comparison.  I would definitely say the Otus is the clear winner if I had to choose between the two.  I'm not saying it's worth the money, but it is a better lens, IMO.  The Sigma 85 ART reminds me of the lenses from several years ago, with all of it's purple fringing, unfortunately.

interesting !
what is your source- or did you try it?
I just looked at the tests from Diglloyd and it seems the Milvius has some better image.
But Zeiss should be ashamed to sell a 85mm lens at this pricelevel and forget about corner sharpness until f8.
It is a common problem with Zeiss lenses- they think corners are not important.

Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on November 21, 2016, 08:39:44 am
interesting !
what is your source- or did you try it?
I just looked at the tests from Diglloyd and it seems the Milvius has some better image.
But Zeiss should be ashamed to sell a 85mm lens at this pricelevel and forget about corner sharpness until f8.
It is a common problem with Zeiss lenses- they think corners are not important.

A few thoughts, based on my experience:

- perhaps the Zeiss Milvus 85 was designed as a portrait lens, so corner sharpness up to f8 was a secondary parameter?

- My Zeiss Batis 85, Batis 25, and Loxia 21 are certainly sharp enough starting from wide (or near wide) open. Perhaps a different design philosophy?
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 21, 2016, 09:48:54 am
A few thoughts, based on my experience:

- perhaps the Zeiss Milvus 85 was designed as a portrait lens, so corner sharpness up to f8 was a secondary parameter?

- My Zeiss Batis 85, Batis 25, and Loxia 21 are certainly sharp enough starting from wide (or near wide) open. Perhaps a different design philosophy?

I guess you are right about a design philosophy. Still, 85mm is not a wideangle...and this is a premium lens.
Corners sharpness should be available from f2.8 i would think. The image circle is just not large enough before f8.
An other design philosophy of Zeiss is heavy falloff. Same idea. Almost all the Zeiss lenses have that ...
The coatings however are always very good.
The Nikkor has different design philosophy- not as sharp at f1.4 but very even sharpness from center to corner.

Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: shadowblade on November 22, 2016, 01:11:04 am
Don't be fooled.  While the Sigma 85 ART has impressive sharpness, possibly better than the Otus, it has purple/green fringing all over the place, especially in out of focus areas (axial/longitudal chromatic aberration).  It's bad.  Really, really bad!  And I'm actually disappointed, because I was waiting for the reviews to show what I thought would be a great lens for *my* needs, and I would've bought the Sigma if it wasn't for this annoying characteristic. 

The Zeiss Otus has almost zero LoCA by comparison.  I would definitely say the Otus is the clear winner if I had to choose between the two.  I'm not saying it's worth the money, but it is a better lens, IMO.  The Sigma 85 ART reminds me of the lenses from several years ago, with all of it's purple fringing, unfortunately.

A lens profile to correct this during RAW conversion would make all the difference. If only Sigma would actually release one.

Is the CA only an issue at f/1.4, or also stopped down at more typical landscape apertures?
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: RobertJ on November 22, 2016, 02:52:24 pm
Past 2.8 doesn't seem to be a problem.  At the plane of focus, it has very low CA, which is why all the "reviews" of this lens show basically zero CA.  I'm guessing it's because they are measuring lateral CA.  At ePhotozine.com, their review says "Virtually no CA" which is clearly not the case.

But here we're talking about out of focus areas, which is a bit harder to correct in post, though purple fringing seems easier to correct than other lenses like the 85 Milvus and Sony GM 85 that have red/blue/green/cyan fringing in out of focus areas. 

Also, some people just don't care about CA, so, for those people, it's an awesome lens with what looks like higher resolution than the Otus.  I'm reconsidering, and I still might buy the Sigma.  I'm keeping an eye on the new Samyang 85mm 1.2, and whatever Canon comes out with (85 1.2L III?) will probably be a stellar lens.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on November 30, 2016, 08:58:25 pm
My copy of the sigma has arrived and i am not disappointed; It is real improvement over the Nikon 1.4G that i had.
Fast autofocus that can be made accurately at 4 distances with the USBdock.
Already sharp corner to corner wide open- clear image - no aberration fuzz. Almost without geometric distortion.
Yes indeed a problem with longitudinal aberration wide open front blue/ back green;  f2 a little - f2.8 it is gone. (all my findings are in line with Lenstip.com findings)
Some purple fringing with strong contrasts wide open
From F2.8 it is 100% perfect in every way ( on a 36MP) Flat field of focus. Very clear transparant image. Good coatings.
It can make a perfect 20MP image on a Nikon J5 at f5.6 -that means 154MP in the central area.
The only problem is the size and the weight. Not exactly a walk around lens...
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Otto Phocus on December 01, 2016, 06:59:36 am
Autofocus consistency is the big question mark here (based on the art lenses I already own). I'm waiting for more real world reports before pulling the trigger myself.

I have not had any AF problems with the new Art Sigma lenses.  You really can't compare the new global line with old Sigmas
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on December 01, 2016, 08:17:12 am
I have not had any AF problems with the new Art Sigma lenses.  You really can't compare the new global line with old Sigmas
This lens has ( at least for Nikon) a new type of AF ; It is not only faster, but unlike the 50mm Sigma Art it can deal with the AF-instructions large steps with focus stacking.
In that way it behaves now like the Nikkors.
Also it  now has a rubber gasket in the bajonet, and Sigma claims it is better weather sealed. Focus precision seems to be good. Only at infinity i have to check if it can be a little bit more precise.
According to Diglloyd , the Milvius is optically a bit better, but that lens has weak extreme corners until f8 ?? and it is not autofocus...
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Rado on December 01, 2016, 09:08:13 am
I have not had any AF problems with the new Art Sigma lenses.  You really can't compare the new global line with old Sigmas
I only have the 35 and 50 mm ART lenses, not old Sigmas. And, at least on my Canon bodies, the autofocus has been uneven on both. Not like a consistent back/front focus, more like nailing 70-80% of the shots and the rest being way off in either direction. I've read they focus more reliably on Nikon bodies though.

But I'm probably going to get the 85 anyway since I do like the output of the 35&50 a lot.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: RobertJ on December 02, 2016, 03:31:44 pm
Interesting that lenstip shows the Sigma to be sharper than the Otus, and much sharper than the Milvus, but diglloyd says the Milvus is better.  Maybe there are bad copies, or the Zeiss is just showing more microcontrast?  But I really wouldn't be surprised if the Milvus is in fact sharper. 
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on December 10, 2016, 07:22:46 am
Interesting that lenstip shows the Sigma to be sharper than the Otus, and much sharper than the Milvus, but diglloyd says the Milvus is better.  Maybe there are bad copies, or the Zeiss is just showing more microcontrast?  But I really wouldn't be surprised if the Milvus is in fact sharper.

I think the Milvius draws a better image wide open but the difference is not that much...
The Milvius seems to forget the extreme corners that stay unsharp until f8
The Sigma has very good corners...from f1.4
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: ErikKaffehr on December 10, 2016, 08:16:43 am
Hi,

AF-consistency may be a camera issue rather than a lens issue.

I am not sure Phase detection AF (PDAF) is good enough for 1.4 lenses.

Best regards
Erik

Autofocus consistency is the big question mark here (based on the art lenses I already own). I'm waiting for more real world reports before pulling the trigger myself.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Rado on December 12, 2016, 06:11:05 am
I've just unpacked my copy and it is indeed a hilariously large and heavy lens for a 85mm prime. I might even have to dig up the battery grip for better balance. I have a portrait session later this week where I'll put it through its paces and pump some iron at the same time apparently.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on December 12, 2016, 07:29:11 am
But... and a hugely important but... it is very easy to focus manually to perfection.
...
Bernard
Bernard, i noticed that the Sigma is also more easy to focus manually than i could do with the Nikkor.
I did not expect that but i could focus very well manually... still it takes more time than AF for i have to go through the sharpness before deciding to have it nailed.
The Otus however has a larger focus throw making manual focus easier. But then it has to.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 12, 2016, 08:10:06 am
Hi,

AF-consistency may be a camera issue rather than a lens issue.

I am not sure Phase detection AF (PDAF) is good enough for 1.4 lenses.

Hi Erik,

Yes, that's a good point. The PDAF in (many?) cameras may optically be limited to approx. f/2.8, and they will do little with the wider entrance pupils. So not a limitation of mechanical positioning precision, but rather the ignoring of some of the optical input.

CDAF could perform better if sufficient local subject contrast is present, and somewhat slower AF is not an issue.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Rado on December 13, 2016, 02:35:32 pm
I've been testing the 85 and comparing it against the 50 ART, on Canon. Focusing seems to be improved in all areas - autofocus is snappier and hunts less and manual focusing is surprisingly usable. The focus throw might be only 120 degrees or so but the diameter of the lens is so huge it allows for a precise turning. Still not as nice as a MF-only lens but much better than the 50mm. And while the weight is annoying, the 86mm front element is just gorgeous so... this is shaping up to be one hell of a lens, well done Sigma!
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 17, 2016, 01:28:32 am
My expreience with the AF of the Art 35mm f1.4 on Nikon bodies has been ok, but very poor with the 20mm f1.4 that I ended up selling.

I'll try it again soon in Sigma mount on the new SD H together with the 20mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4.

We'll see how it focuses with the mirrorless Sigma. I expect the combination to be impressive in terms of image quality.

I should be able to do interesting comparions in February.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Cornfield on December 18, 2016, 03:45:35 pm
The 24-105 Art is useless.  Very sharp in the middle soft edges and hopeless corners.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 22, 2016, 06:42:32 am
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/616/30960967394_057af7820e_o.jpg)

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/604/30960962524_959376f324_o.jpg)

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/702/31764451956_ff24b43996_o.jpg)
Sigma SD H + Sigma 85mm Art f1.4

All shot at f1.4 hand held in raw, very little corrections performed.

Probably not what the camera was designed for, but so far so good. The lens is obviously very good. Not quite Otus or Nikon 105mm f1.4, but pretty close.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on December 22, 2016, 07:08:06 am
Pretty close, and costs way less.
Then the Otus is not AF and the Nikkor is 105mm; for me a bit too much.
AF is pretty fast, good for moving subways...
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: ErikKaffehr on January 05, 2017, 08:44:13 am
AF consistency may be a camera issue more than a lens issue. Sigma may have a calibration service where they adjust the lens to each individual camera.

Best regards
Erik

I have not had any AF problems with the new Art Sigma lenses.  You really can't compare the new global line with old Sigmas
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Conner999 on January 05, 2017, 09:32:21 am
We have a 35ART that performs very well, but while our 20/1.4 was optically great, it's AF was a #$%^ hot mess and was returned.  At that juncture, we stopped looking at Sigma for any glass adds. The optics are great, but 1 : 2 on AF consistency (vs simple MFA) is not a great hit rate and inconsistency between copies and/or bodies is not something we want to deal with. If they re-housed the optics into a premium Zeiss-like manual focus line, we'd come looking again.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on January 05, 2017, 10:53:21 am
We have a 35ART that performs very well, but while our 20/1.4 was optically great, it's AF was a #$%^ hot mess and was returned.  At that juncture, we stopped looking at Sigma for any glass adds. The optics are great, but 1 : 2 on AF consistency (vs simple MFA) is not a great hit rate and inconsistency between copies and/or bodies is not something we want to deal with. If they re-housed the optics into a premium Zeiss-like manual focus line, we'd come looking again.

but then ; try to find an other and optically better 1.4 20mm lens AF or not AF...
there is not other... and optically... Roger Cicala ( Lens rentals ) calls it its favorite piece of new gear from 2016.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 05, 2017, 09:21:41 pm
but then ; try to find an other and optically better 1.4 20mm lens AF or not AF...
there is not other... and optically... Roger Cicala ( Lens rentals ) calls it its favorite piece of new gear from 2016.

The 20mm f1.4 is outstanding optically. It's AF is consistent and accurate on the SD H. It is also reasonably fast on static subjects, obviously not anywhere near a D5, but decent.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on January 06, 2017, 04:12:43 am
I saw this lens on my local dealer the other day. This thing is really big, talk about Leica SL lens big:)

Seems like the profit is coming these days from these humongous lenses, and the folks like me that don't mind f2.8 lenses are left wanting...
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 06, 2017, 04:55:13 am
I saw this lens on my local dealer the other day. This thing is really big, talk about Leica SL lens big:)

Seems like the profit is coming these days from these humongous lenses, and the folks like me that don't mind f2.8 lenses are left wanting...

That's very true and a bit unfortunate. The Nikon f1.8 series comes to mind as a very notable exception though. Very high performing lenses, pretty compact and reasonable in price.

cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on February 03, 2017, 10:07:27 am
DXO as well as Lenscore.org have now tested the Sigma to complete the overall picture.
With the Lenstip.com and the diglloyd reviews combined one is capable to get an idea of the lens and they are in line with my own findings.
Lenscore looks beyond the 36/50MP and clearly states that the Otus is still King.
The only review missing is that of Lensrentals.

Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Rado on February 03, 2017, 10:34:11 am
I've been pretty happy with mine so far.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: RobertJ on February 03, 2017, 10:45:05 pm
DXO doesn't test for longitudal chromatic abberation, and I wish they did.  This makes their reviews seem a bit misleading, showing low "CA" scores for the Sigma 85mm, while in reality, the Otus is a far more usable lens in the real world, due to it being basically free of any fringing of any kind. 

I would feel no hesitation using the Otus in every situation, while the Sigma would be a bit cringeworthy, having problems with fringing in many cases. 

The Otus is almost a flawless lens in the real world, compared to the Sigma.  Once again, I don't know if the Otus is actually worth that amount of money, but I feel it is the better lens, and lenscore.org kind of proves this with the extremely high Otus score.

Supposedly Canon is coming out with an 85mm 1.4L IS, and judging by my 35mm 1.4L II (on a Sony A7RII), it should be one of the best lenses yet, but you never know. :)
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Ancient Tiger on February 04, 2017, 08:33:54 pm
99% of the Otus at 25% of the price plus AF.

What's not to like?
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: alan_b on February 04, 2017, 10:48:32 pm
99% of the Otus at 25% of the price plus AF.

What's not to like?

For some, the entire value of the Otus is its APO performance.  In those cases, the Sigma is 0% of the Otus.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on February 05, 2017, 06:17:34 am
For some, the entire value of the Otus is its APO performance.  In those cases, the Sigma is 0% of the Otus.
It is only some longitudinal aberration that is not to like,
And its nothing serious @f 2.8. The lens is perfect @ f4.
The fast AF will save you from a lot of APO unsharp images
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: nemophoto on February 05, 2017, 12:23:20 pm
I certainly found it an amazing lens to use, especially compared to my 85/1.2. I might wish it was a tad less long, with a smaller filter size, but if that's what they had to do to achieve such sharp results, so be it. I also find it interesting that the autofocus is considerably faster than the 85/1.2, though it's a hunk of glass to move around. But the Canon 85 is a 10+ years old design.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on February 05, 2017, 07:07:57 pm
Now Lensrentals also has tested 10 copies.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/02/mtf-tests-for-the-sigma-bbl-the-big-beautiful-85mm-art-lens/

Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Ancient Tiger on February 06, 2017, 06:51:38 pm
For some, the entire value of the Otus is its APO performance.  In those cases, the Sigma is 0% of the Otus.
If someone can show me this difference in real life photos, I might believe you. The convenience of AF certainly gives the Sigma an advantage if you are shooting while you or your subject are not perfectly stationary. In landscape photos or studio shots of stationary objects whilst on a tripod, the Otus wide open obviously will rule, but even then once stopped down to F4 the difference would be too close to tell. In almost all other situations the AF will nail you that shot more often IMHO.

Again, it's also 25% of the price.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: nemophoto on February 11, 2017, 11:54:18 am
If someone can show me this difference in real life photos, I might believe you. The convenience of AF certainly gives the Sigma an advantage if you are shooting while you or your subject are not perfectly stationary. In landscape photos or studio shots of stationary objects whilst on a tripod, the Otus wide open obviously will rule, but even then once stopped down to F4 the difference would be too close to tell. In almost all other situations the AF will nail you that shot more often IMHO.

Again, it's also 25% of the price.

The real value of APO is longer telephotos. While the Otus takes advantage of the APO characteristics for CA wide-open (and that can be said for many lenses), stopped down (just a bit), compared to the Otus, the Sigma performs exceptionally. I'd take the Sigma over the Otus any day, especially when you throw in autofocus. If all you ever do are contemplative photos, working off a tripod, and you can have the best, go with the Otus. For me, for what I shoot commercially, I'll take the Sigma. The days of manually focusing for movement and action are long gone. None of the cameras offers the plethora of alternative focusing screens, and ground glass doesn't hack it in low light. Years ago, I used to shoot with Canon 300/2.8 with my F-1n's , A-1's and T90's. I shot sports, but more so, shot a  lot of action/movement lifestyle with the 300. My percentages were quite good. But they were far better with even the early AF of the EOS 1. Anyone who thinks they can focus on the fly better manually than with AF is kidding themselves. The only thing I wish had been incorporated with the Sigma (but would have made it even bigger) is IS. I tried on a shoot, back in November, the Tamron 85/1.8 VR. In the end, I was disappointed with it. The Tamron, though a nice lenses, didn't have the quality of the Sigma.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on February 11, 2017, 12:41:32 pm
... The only thing I wish had been incorporated with the Sigma (but would have made it even bigger) is IS. I tried on a shoot, back in November, the Tamron 85/1.8 VR. In the end, I was disappointed with it. The Tamron, though a nice lenses, didn't have the quality of the Sigma.
I have also shot with the Tamron, and it found it very good when stopped down. The VR of the Tamron did not seem to work that good with the body- d810.
I have seen that before in combination with the other VR-lenses i have- it has to do with the shutter vibration of the d810.
i like the softness of the sound of this shutter, but the vibration seems to get in the way with VR.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 11, 2017, 07:18:56 pm
But the Canon 85 is a 10+ years old design.

Indeed, the version II was introduced on February 21st , 2006 (if my info is correct), and that probably was still a film design, not incorporating a filter-stack as is usual/required for more modern digital designs. But I also love the rendering of my EF-85mm f/1.2L II USM, although it needs stopping down to f/2.0 to lose its Longitudinal Chromatic Aberration, and at f/1.2 the mirror of my EOS 1Ds Mark III, casts a shadow because the mirror box is not large enough to accommodate such a wide exit pupil diameter. At f/1.4 it's fine.

I assume that the exit pupil of the Sigma Art is smaller at f/1.4, thus avoiding an asymmetrical vignetting (which can be fixed by e.g. Capture One's LCC functionality), and clipped disc-shaped OOF highlights that cannot be fixed...?

So, I'm following the discussion closely, to learn if the Sigma is of high enough mechanical/AF quality as well as optical quality (which comes first).

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: Goodlight_Studio on June 30, 2017, 10:03:19 am
I bought a Sigma 85mm Art and have found chromatic aberrations and purple fringing. Would you mind looking at 100% crops attached. One is RAW and the other has been run through C1's lens profile tool "analyze chromatic aberration" and I've got the "defringe" slider to the maximum.

Is this normal or should I send it back to the company I bought it from. 

Settings:
Canon 5D mark 3
ISO 400
F/1.8
1/8000 sec

 
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: scyth on June 30, 2017, 10:21:44 am
Is this normal or should I send it back to the company I bought it from. 

LoCA @ f1.8 ? of course ... it is not Super APO

http://www.lenstip.com/491.5-Lens_review-Sigma_A_85_mm_f_1.4_DG_HSM_Chromatic_and_spherical_aberration.html

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/1000-sigma85f14art?start=1
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: RobertJ on June 30, 2017, 07:40:23 pm
I bought a Sigma 85mm Art and have found chromatic aberrations and purple fringing. Would you mind looking at 100% crops attached. One is RAW and the other has been run through C1's lens profile tool "analyze chromatic aberration" and I've got the "defringe" slider to the maximum.

Is this normal or should I send it back to the company I bought it from. 

Settings:
Canon 5D mark 3
ISO 400
F/1.8
1/8000 sec

That's normal.  It's not an Otus.  Did you not read my post on the first page of this thread?  LOL
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: JKoerner007 on June 30, 2017, 07:44:37 pm
DXO doesn't test for longitudal chromatic abberation, and I wish they did.  This makes their reviews seem a bit misleading, showing low "CA" scores for the Sigma 85mm, while in reality, the Otus is a far more usable lens in the real world, due to it being basically free of any fringing of any kind

I would feel no hesitation using the Otus in every situation, while the Sigma would be a bit cringeworthy, having problems with fringing in many cases. 

The Otus is almost a flawless lens in the real world, compared to the Sigma.  Once again, I don't know if the Otus is actually worth that amount of money, but I feel it is the better lens, and lenscore.org kind of proves this with the extremely high Otus score.

Supposedly Canon is coming out with an 85mm 1.4L IS, and judging by my 35mm 1.4L II (on a Sony A7RII), it should be one of the best lenses yet, but you never know. :)

One of the reasons I dismiss DxO ... all they care about is sharpness ... not rendering, bokeh, CA, etc. They're measurebaters not photographers.
Same with LensRental. MTF only, no real comment on anything else.

LenScore, to me, is the more balanced, real-world analysis of a lens so you can decide what's important to you.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: kers on June 30, 2017, 07:47:13 pm
Don't be fooled.  While the Sigma 85 ART has impressive sharpness, possibly better than the Otus, it has purple/green fringing all over the place, especially in out of focus areas (axial/longitudal chromatic aberration).  It's bad.  Really, really bad! ...

he did you copy Trumps language, than you should add sad too... ;)

but you are right - the perfect image from the Sigma art is at F4.
longitude aberration is gone @ f2.8 as is purple fringing.

But it seems the bokeh of the sigma is a lot better than the Otus.
Coatings are very good too, even better than my f2.8 85mm PCE lens.
Title: Re: Sigma ART 85 mm F1.4 - a statement from Sigma
Post by: RobertJ on June 30, 2017, 07:56:04 pm
LOL Pieter, yes, Trump somehow hijacked my forum account.

The reason for writing that is because I was genuinely surprised and disappointed.  I wanted an Otus for less than half the price, but it didn't turn out that way.  :)