Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: J_M on October 19, 2016, 05:33:10 am
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Hi there,
This is my first post; I’m new here.
Does anyone have any experience with the Hasselblad h6d-100c?
I’ve already tested the h6d-50c during the summer and found the battery life to be completely abysmal. This is very probably A. a firmware issue (wasn’t up to date), and B. operator error (I wasn’t informed that having the wifi on all the the time could drain the battery so much!) I tested the camera on a commercial production and shot tethered for about 10 hours each day. The shoot lasted three days.
I’m considering upgrading from my H3DII. My H3DII can shoot tethered all day and I never ever have to change the battery.
Besides the battery issue, the 50c was a pleasure.
However, something tells me that the 100c will be a slightly different animal, when it comes to overall workflow. Has anyone had a chance to test the 100c in studio, outdoor, and or lowlight/night conditions? Are you happy with it? Is there anything particularly irritating you’ve experienced?
Also, has anyone experienced the slightly blurry images you sometimes get when shooting handheld (1/400th) like I’ve had on the PhaseOne XF IQ3? Basically one of every three images was blurry; yes the exposures were all shot at the same time while standing still. (My P1 dealer said it is a known issue and has to do with the amount of megapixels packed on to the chip.)
Any help or answers are appreciated!
Best,
J_M
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Hi J_M,
I can't comment on the H6D-100c but I own a H6D-50c. The battery use when tethered is being addressed in a future firmware update. The USB cable currently does not power the back or charge the battery when tethered, but this is apparently in the works. The sooner it comes the better!
Ben
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I don't have any problems handholding the XF-100 at 1/400th, even with the gigantic 40-80mm zoom lens. The only time I've gotten problematic shake at a shutter speed that high has been with the 240mm lens, which is both heavy and long (the physical length and extra magnification magnify shake).
I'm assuming that the dealer who said this is a "known issue" due to the "high megapixel count" was referring to the fact that with more megapixels, you're inclined to zoom in further on screen to pixel peep and therefore the shake is more visible? I'd want to compare a print from a shot taken hand held with the XF-100 to a print from a shot made under the same conditions with the same lens but a lower megapixel count back before concluding that the number of megapixels *causes* greater shake or greater visibility of shake at the same viewing distance.
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Hey J_M,
Battery life was actually a surprise to me, more in line with the CMOS than the CCD I'm use to. What batteries were you using (2900ma, 3200ma)? Yes, wifi kills batteries, and depends on screen use as well. As for shake, I've been fine with 1/160th hand held with the 80mm. I've done slower when bracing and with mirror lockup. My calculation was a rough 1/(2x focal length) for shutter speed, but also felt I could crank up the ISO to get it.
-Joe
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Hey J_M,
Battery life was actually a surprise to me, more in line with the CMOS than the CCD I'm use to. What batteries were you using (2900ma, 3200ma)? Yes, wifi kills batteries, and depends on screen use as well. As for shake, I've been fine with 1/160th hand held with the 80mm. I've done slower when bracing and with mirror lockup. My calculation was a rough 1/(2x focal length) for shutter speed, but also felt I could crank up the ISO to get it.
-Joe
What "Extra Mirror Delay" value do you use for handheld shooting? On H5D50c I use 50ms.
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I tend to use 100ms - it's slower, but it forces me to commit earlier to a shot.
-Joe
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Hi all,
Thanks so much for the replies!
The issue with the battery really irritates me. It's like selling a car where the brakes work most of the time, but not always as fast as they should.
As far as the batteries go – I used four in total when I tested the 50c in the summer. 2 brand new ones direct from Hassi. 2 of my used ones that I use with my h3dii. I was getting about 60-90 minutes (tethered!) per battery before having to swap. All batteries were fully charged every night and recharged on the fly during the production.
My main concern is how to deal with shooting landscapes without having to carry a backpack full of replacement batteries along.
I'm going to test the 100c at the beginning of next week and have the option to keep (purchase) it if I'm convinced. However, the fact that there are exactly zero reviews of the 100c online are a big red flag. I'm not interested in being one of the first to get their hands on it. I just want a good quality tool to get my work done. Anyone know of a site where they review the 100c? (was hoping this was the right place. :/ )
As to the blurry p1 images I experienced. I'm chalking that up to operator error and the fact that the camera is pretty heavy. I'm guessing that after a few days of use, I'd have all the little issues you have with every camera ironed out. It was surprising, but my testing wasn't exactly scientific. Everything else about the camera was rock solid.
Either or, I'm still on the fence about staying with Hasselblad or jumping over to P1.
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Cannot speak to Hasselblad but in the P1 side and battery life the power share feature between the IQ3 and XF is a very good asset.
In normal use for me I do a lot of both Live view and post view at 100%. On older P1 backs both CCD and CMOS battery life for the back was nominal.
With power share the back battery will get down to 25 percent but just stays there as the XF battery has so much more life. You can get a lot more use in the field this way than if the back is on a older DF series camera or a tech camera.
Paul C
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There hasn't been a lot of reviews because it's really not a huge difference from the -50c. Bigger chip, bigger file, longer time between shots, and uses more energy. I have to say the 2 days I spent with it have produced some amazing work that has no equal. Then again I shoot to card, and got over 700 shots from 2 batteries. Tethering doesn't allow the back to sleep as much, and USB3 can't provide power at a level that matters.
Here's one of them - http://gigapan.com/gigapans/191683 - I have others but have been holding off. Prints at 62x83 are just stunning - and to get that from every single image.
The upside to the XF dual battery is also a downside in weight, but like everything - there are trade-offs.
-Joe
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Joe
Nice idea for a huge image question the image seems to get progressively less sharp. Did you hand hold this if so what shutter speed and lens combo if you remember.
I have the h6d-100 on order they are telling me delivery will not be until December sometime, any comments on hand held vs tripod?
Also did the unit you used have a leveling feature?
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Had to look, 1/500th f9 with the 80mm lens, iso 200. I think between the DoF, defraction, and the push/pull on the file in Lightroom helps the less sharp feel. I need to go back and start with Phocus 3.1 and work forward.
The best method of shooting will be with a tripod. If you can't swing it with a tripod, faster than 1/500th _should_ be fine. I mean, I was doing aerial shots from a heli with it and they're AMAZING.
-Joe
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Thanks for the reply makes me feel better about the up coming purchase quality-wise.
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I have spent time with the samples I shot with the H6d-100c and various lenses.
There are many things to like, but on the negative side I was surprised to see the amount of purple fringing along high contrast edges. The 50mm II seemed particularly affected by this. It is easy to fix with LR but seems very challenging with Phocus 3.1.
What is everybody's experience?
Cheers,
Bernard
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I haven't seen the purple fringing, but that may be more luck and that the scene's where I'd have seen it I was using a different focal length. I had a blast with the 28, 50-110, 80, 210 and using my 1.7x with the 80 and 210.
I need to block out a few hours and look at everything in Phocus 3.1 - I'm too Lightroom dependent.
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Hi Bernard,
That is a big surprise!
Do you think it is lateral or axial chroma? Sounds from your descrition as lateral chroma and that should be fixed in Phocus!
Hasselblad used to have a philosophy that lateral chroma, vignetting and distortion could be handled in raw processing and the raw files are supposed to have all data needed for such corrections.
Could you post an example?
Best regards
Erik
It is easy to fix with LR but seems very challenging with Phocus 3.1.
What is everybody's experience?
Cheers,
Bernard
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Did you have the Lens Corrections box ticked in Phocus and then the CA , Distortion and Vignetting boxes as well. Vital with HC, HCD lenses.
Yes, I did, which is the default at least in Phocus 3.1.
It didn't help with the purple fringing I saw.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Well, that is a worry.
Phocus lens corrections have always been promoted as an intergral part of the H system.
This would probably not be an issue in a large majority of images.
I was just surprised to see this popping up again. I don't see this often, or at all, in my Nikon files/Zeiss lenses + C1 Pro.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi Bernard,
Good to hear about you getting your 100c - am interested hearing about the CA on the H lenses - do you have access to try it with a decent HC120II as it comes across as one of their best corrected lenses on a 50MS. I'd be interesting to know what Fstop you notice as being sharpest before diffraction kicking in - on the 6um 50MP it was began around F8.
Alex
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Good to hear about you getting your 100c - am interested hearing about the CA on the H lenses - do you have access to try it with a decent HC120II as it comes across as one of their best corrected lenses on a 50MS. I'd be interesting to know what Fstop you notice as being sharpest before diffraction kicking in - on the 6um 50MP it was began around F8.
Hi Alex,
I have not bought a H6D-100c yet, still considering whether it is worth the cash. If I decide to proceed, the the 120II is probably going to be part of the package, although I am a bit concerned by its huge side.
Cheers,
Bernard
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If I decide to proceed, the the 120II is probably going to be part of the package, although I am a bit concerned by its huge side.
Hi Bernard,
understood - and yes it does weigh down the camera - the 150 is more portable but my couple of experiences with it showed that it didn't stand up to the 120II in terms of edge sharpness and CA at closer quarters (<6 metres).
Alex
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Hi Alex,
I have not bought a H6D-100c yet, still considering whether it is worth the cash. If I decide to proceed, the the 120II is probably going to be part of the package, although I am a bit concerned by its huge side.
Cheers,
Bernard
I have a 120II here and ready to work when the X1D (and adapter for the 120II) finally arrive.
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I have spent time with the samples I shot with the H6d-100c and various lenses.
There are many things to like, but on the negative side I was surprised to see the amount of purple fringing along high contrast edges. The 50mm II seemed particularly affected by this. It is easy to fix with LR but seems very challenging with Phocus 3.1.
What is everybody's experience?
Cheers,
Bernard
I find that surprising. On an H4D-50, I can't see any purple fringing with the 50mm II. Sure, the new H6D-100c has smaller pixels and will show more fringing than the H4D-50, but if there is a lot to be seen on the H6D-100c, surely purple fringing should show at least a little bit on the H4D-50?
Maybe that particular copy of the 50mm II was faulty? Or maybe there was a problem with the AF of your particular H6D-100c sample?
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I would also love to understand what happened.
I will try to test that once more. As of now I consider, if representative of what the performance should be, a show stopper. I really hope that this sample of the lens had issues.
Btw, how would an AF issue result in purple fringing?
Cheers,
Bernard
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Btw, how would an AF issue result in purple fringing?
If there is a slight defocus, there is often more fringing.
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I would also love to understand what happened.
I will try to test that once more. As of now I consider, if representative of what the performance should be, a show stopper. I really hope that this sample of the lens had issues.
Btw, how would an AF issue result in purple fringing?
Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard, why don't you ask some questions of Hasselblad, they are presumably the experts on the camera and the lenses - and the software.
Lateral chromatic aberration is - I believe - sometimes dealt with by software, once the lens has been characterized.
Edmund
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I have spent time with the samples I shot with the H6d-100c and various lenses.
There are many things to like, but on the negative side I was surprised to see the amount of purple fringing along high contrast edges. The 50mm II seemed particularly affected by this. It is easy to fix with LR but seems very challenging with Phocus 3.1.
What is everybody's experience?
Cheers,
Bernard
In my experience, and this goes back many generations, Phocus can correct for chromatic aberration effectively, however with purple fringing, which is more associated with blooming and other high contrast scenarios, I have found the tools are not as effective, in fact I'm not aware of a dedicated tool to address it in Phocus.
I do not see it as a limitation of the 100mp sensor, as I have seen this back to the 39mp days. And the fact that LR cleaned it up would seem to back up that it's not a sensor limitation, but a software limitation.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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Bernard, why don't you ask some questions of Hasselblad, they are presumably the experts on the camera and the lenses - and the software.
Lateral chromatic aberration is - I believe - sometimes dealt with by software, once the lens has been characterized.
I did and have not received a clear answer about the origin of the issue, just a confirmation that, although CA is corrected by Phocus, purple fringing isn't.
I believe that C1 Pro does correct this more of less automatically, which is probably why I haven't seen it in years in my images.
What I intend to do is a comparison of the H6D-100c + a few lenses vs my D810 + Otus glass in similar conditions and assess whether this is a real problem or not.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi,
This sample from Doug Peterson's IQ3-100MP test shows a very typical case of axial chromatic aberration. Almost all large aperture lenses have it except the Otuses, the Sonnar 135/2 APO, some of the APO Lantars.
You are paying a lot to have it corrected in the Otus.
Best regards
Erik
I did and have not received a clear answer about the origin of the issue, just a confirmation that, although CA is corrected by Phocus, purple fringing isn't.
I believe that C1 Pro does correct this more of less automatically, which is probably why I haven't seen it in years in my images.
What I intend to do is a comparison of the H6D-100c + a few lenses vs my D810 + Otus glass in similar conditions and assess whether this is a real problem or not.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi,
This sample from Doug Peterson's IQ3-100MP test shows a very typical case of axial chromatic aberration. Almost all large aperture lenses have it except the Otuses, the Sonnar 135/2 APO, some of the APO Lantars.
You are paying a lot to have it corrected in the Otus.
Still significantly less than what you pay for most MF lenses especially if you factor in the entry point of the body you need to mount these lenses on... which is precicely the point and makes me wonder if I don't already own the very best. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi Bernard,
Not my point.
My point is to find out if it is axial chroma you have observed, or something else. The effect shown here arises with defocus, a few lenses are very well corrected for axial chroma but most are not.
With the Otus, Zeiss made a great effort to reduce axial chroma to virtually zero all the way to f/1.4. With the Milvus lenses Zeiss has redesigned the 50/1.4 and the 85/1.4, in both cases a bit Otus like designs, indeed the Milvus MTF plots are on par with the Otus, but I would guess that the Milvuses don't fully correct axial chroma.
I have seen a couple of interviews with Zeiss people almost spelling that out.
The Otus design should be able to keep up with 24x36 sensors up to perhaps 150 MP. So if you need Otus quality at 100 MP you can just wait for some to deliver a 100 MP 24x36 sensor.
Best regards
Erik
Still significantly less than what you pay for most MF lenses especially if you factor in the entry point of the body you need to mount these lenses on... which is precicely the point and makes me wonder if I don't already own the very best. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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My point is to find out if it is axial chroma you have observed, or something else.
It is purple fringing, no lateral or axial chromatic aberration.
cheers,
Bernard
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Hi,
Digllyod has found that kind of fringing on Leica S-lenses and found that it was caused by insufficient IR-filtering, if I recall it correctly. I no longer subscribe to his site, but he had quite strong evidence. He made tests with differen UV and IR filters and found that filters could eliminate that fringing fully by the appropriate filter. I am pretty sure that was IR-filtration, but could also been UV. Long time ago I read.
Best regards
Erik
It is purple fringing, no lateral or axial chromatic aberration.
cheers,
Bernard
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Digllyod has found that kind of fringing on Leica S-lenses and found that it was caused by insufficient IR-filtering, if I recall it correctly. I no longer subscribe to his site, but he had quite strong evidence. He made tests with differen UV and IR filters and found that filters could eliminate that fringing fully by the appropriate filter. I am pretty sure that was IR-filtration, but could also been UV. Long time ago I read.
That's interesting, so it could be related to the sensor then.
Cheers,
Bernard
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That's interesting, so it could be related to the sensor then.
Cheers,
Bernard
I believe the purple fringing is caused by a complex lens/sensor interaction, and therefore a bit unpredictable depending on which combination you are using. I hadn't heard the IR/UV story before, but there certainly is the issue of the sensel "light-trap walls" and microlenses and **light angle from the exit pupil** etc. And on the aperture at time of capture ... maybe you could redo your tests with another aperture.
BTW, Leica S lenses have built-in UV filtration AFAIK. I know that because when they were at prototype stage I had a chat with them and they said they'd seen the issue, and asked about software solutions and I said it wouldn't work, and they said they concluded the same thing and decided to build filters into the lenses (for all I know that might mean just using a certain glass type?) .
Maybe spending more time on what is in front of the lens and less on the camera is worthwhile. I find these days I do a lot of my imaging with a box of color pencils and a notepad.
Edmund
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This sample from Doug Peterson's IQ3-100MP test shows a very typical case of axial chromatic aberration. Almost all large aperture lenses have it except the Otuses, the Sonnar 135/2 APO, some of the APO Lantars.
Notably:
- This is the 80LS. A very solid kit lens, but not as free of chromatic aberration as the 35LS, 45LS, 110LS, 120LS, 150LS, or 240LS
- It's shot wide open
- It's shot at a close distance
- This is a crop of a subject with thin high contrast lines
These are all the worst case scenario for CA. I've attached a screen grab from the same raw file elsewhere in the frame to show what you would expect on a more normal subject matter.
More to the point Chromatic Aberration (CA) is not the same as Purple Fringing (PF). CA is all about the lens. PF is a product of sensor, filter, and signal processing with the lens playing a limited role in some cases. You might assume this would be the same across cameras that use the same or very similar sensors, but that is a bad assumption.
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Notably:
- This is the 80LS. A very solid kit lens, but not as free of chromatic aberration as the 35LS, 45LS, 110LS, 120LS, 150LS, or 240LS
- It's shot wide open
- It's shot at a close distance
- This is a crop of a subject with thin high contrast lines
These are all the worst case scenario for CA. I've attached a screen grab from the same raw file elsewhere in the frame to show what you would expect on a more normal subject matter.
More to the point Chromatic Aberration (CA) is not the same as Purple Fringing (PF). CA is all about the lens. PF is a product of sensor, filter, and signal processing with the lens playing a limited role in some cases. You might assume this would be the same across cameras that use the same or very similar sensors, but that is a bad assumption.
Maybe, you could be more specific in imparting your wisdom - eager ears await your words :)
Edmund
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Hi all,
I just wanted to give you an update to my 100c test from last week.
Of the three cameras sent to Germany, one made its way to me! Apparently a lot of bodies are being shipped to Asia and only a small amount are available here in Europe.
When I went to pick the body up at the dealer he couldn’t turn the camera on. After a little testing and calls to the regional Hassi guy, we still couldn’t get it working…..I left.
Many hours later, I got a call and they got it figured out. Apparently the firmware for the 50c was installed on the 100c on accident?!? (Not exactly the best first impression, but ok, stuff like that can happen.)
I went back to the dealer the next day to give it another go. After picking up the camera we started testing it.
More bad news. After three to five exposures the body would lock up and require a battery removal & restart. We tried with 3 brand new cards (fresh out of the package 2x SD cards/64GB 95MB/s, and 1 CFast). The same problem kept coming up – the camera kept crashing. We tried different variations of settings, jpeg & raw, raw only; other random stuff that might make things unstable. Nothing worked. I took the camera back a little while later.
I was planning on taking advantage of the trade-in program and was so glad that I hadn’t given them my older model right away. Make sure you test your new camera thoroughly before giving them your old one. The camera I received was extremely unstable.
J_M
*The few images I was able to make were impressive though.
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Maybe, you could be more specific in imparting your wisdom - eager ears await your words :)
Doug is probably comparing Panasonic and Olympus?
Cheers,
Bernard
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I believe the purple fringing is caused by a complex lens/sensor interaction, and therefore a bit unpredictable depending on which combination you are using. I hadn't heard the IR/UV story before, but there certainly is the issue of the sensel "light-trap walls" and microlenses and **light angle from the exit pupil** etc. And on the aperture at time of capture ... maybe you could redo your tests with another aperture.
BTW, Leica S lenses have built-in UV filtration AFAIK. I know that because when they were at prototype stage I had a chat with them and they said they'd seen the issue, and asked about software solutions and I said it wouldn't work, and they said they concluded the same thing and decided to build filters into the lenses (for all I know that might mean just using a certain glass type?) .
Maybe spending more time on what is in front of the lens and less on the camera is worthwhile. I find these days I do a lot of my imaging with a box of color pencils and a notepad.
Edmund
Search for Panasonic 7-14 mm purple blob on Olympus EM5 cameras for another example. If i remember correctly, a Wratten 2A filter limited the issue. Someone developed a filter mounting on the rear of the lens.
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Hi Doug,
I have taken your sample shot because it is a well made example and shows very clearly the effects of axial chromatic aberration, which normally occurs as magenta/green fringing in out of focus areas. I wanted to show a sample with a recent generation MFD lens. My older Hasselblad V lenses are pretty rich in axial chroma, but they are old designs made for film.
Purple fringing is a different thing. A few years ago Lloyd Chambers has found very significant fringing on some Leica S lenses. He could show that an IR-cut off filter in front of the lens could eliminate that fringing fully. The lens was obviously not well corrected for short wave infrared and the IR filter was insufficient to keep short wave IR off the sensor.
We obviously deal with different phenomena.
- Lateral CA that mostly gives red/green fringes, proportional to distance from optical axis - not affected by stopping down
- Axial CA, most visible in OoF areas, magenta green fringing
- Purple fringing - that may have different causes
Bernard has not supplied samples, so we can only guess.
Stopping down a lens masks axial chroma. So it rarely shows at say f/8, it is a large aperture for bokeh kind of problem.
Best regards
Erik
Notably:
- This is the 80LS. A very solid kit lens, but not as free of chromatic aberration as the 35LS, 45LS, 110LS, 120LS, 150LS, or 240LS
- It's shot wide open
- It's shot at a close distance
- This is a crop of a subject with thin high contrast lines
These are all the worst case scenario for CA. I've attached a screen grab from the same raw file elsewhere in the frame to show what you would expect on a more normal subject matter.
More to the point Chromatic Aberration (CA) is not the same as Purple Fringing (PF). CA is all about the lens. PF is a product of sensor, filter, and signal processing with the lens playing a limited role in some cases. You might assume this would be the same across cameras that use the same or very similar sensors, but that is a bad assumption.
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Sorry guys, I was requested not to publish the images I shot, regardless of this issue.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard
If you remember was there a spirit leveling function on the camera? Also was your use of the focus confirm sufficient enough to satisfy you?
thanks
barry
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Bernard
If you remember was there a spirit leveling function on the camera? Also was your use of the focus confirm sufficient enough to satisfy you?
No it wasn't, but the Hassy rep told me they were going to support it on an upcoming firmware.
I didn't try the focus confirmation, I mostly shot with AF True Focus and got good accuracy. The only issue was with the 50mm II that had troubles focusing at times, I was told this was also going to be fixed by firmware.
Overall I got a very good impression of the camera, except for these purple fringing issues with both the 50mmII and 100mm f2.2 as mentioned.
Cheers,
Bernard
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As I've commented before, I've been asking Hasselblad for intergrated step focusing many times over the past several years. The best answer from product development was it's on the to-do-list? I sure hope some of the crippled pre existing firmware solutions are very very quickly implemented, before the initial first wave of shipments would be prudent.
The 100mm lens is on my buy list for many reasons. The most important being panoramic images it has been proven to be the sweet spot in focal length for those images, it would be unacceptable if purple fringing was strong using it. Especially if one was not able to remove the fringing with software! I would love to know if any one has any previlaged information regarding minor quality upgrades in the newly announced lenses.
The 50ii which I do own is an incredible lens I'm curious if you got a bad copy as my results with it have been great even with the 1.7x and the HTS 1.5. The only lens that gives me trouble is the 28 when I tilt it up too much...impossible to correct the distortion. Maybe with a 100 sensor being a different X factor it will come to life when tilted a little bit.
Scary to read the post about all the lock ups, "H" must being pulling their hair out trying to get these news beasts to market I know I would be.
Thank you for the input.
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Hi Bernard,
Thanks for info!
Best regards
Erik
Sorry guys, I was requested not to publish the images I shot, regardless of this issue.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The 100mm lens is on my buy list for many reasons. The most important being panoramic images it has been proven to be the sweet spot in focal length for those images, it would be unacceptable if purple fringing was strong using it.
The 100mm is a very good lens, but was not designed for what you want to do. It is a fast double-Gauss design and shows the advantages (for portraits) and disadvantages (for what you intend to do) of that classical design. If you need a lens around that focal length, you will probably be more satisfied with the HD-120 II macro (not the first version), which is very well corrected even at large distances. Unfortunately, the HD-120 II is quite large and heavy.
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The 100mm lens is on my buy list for many reasons. The most important being panoramic images it has been proven to be the sweet spot in focal length for those images, it would be unacceptable if purple fringing was strong using it. Especially if one was not able to remove the fringing with software! I would love to know if any one has any previlaged information regarding minor quality upgrades in the newly announced lenses.
I had the same issue with the 100mm, but I am not sure if it a lens issue a sensor limitation.
It seems that this is nothing new and that older backs, both on P1 and Hassy, can also exhibit this kind of purple fringing in some circumstances, typically a very bright area close to a dark one.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi,
An intro to Lloyd's article is here: http://zeisstouit.com/blog/2010/20100725_2-Leica70.html
Lloyd says: "The comparison should be of interest to anyone wondering about purple fringing (eg Canon, Nikon or any other brand)."
Brian Caldwell, a well known American lens designer posted this on GetDPI:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/18201-more-longitudinal-color-70-2-5-s2-lens.html?highlight=#post231670
And this:
"Yes, I design lenses. But the vast majority of them will never be seen by the public, and the handful that will are hardly competitors to Leica. I'm about as much competition to Leica as Leica is competition to all other photographic companies combined.
The thing that interests me about Lloyd's recent studies is they suggest that purple fringing seems to be mainly due to longitunal color in the deep violet, and has nothing to do with "sensor blooming" or microlenses etc. Knowledge is a good thing, and incorrect myths are a bad thing, in my view.
I found out about Lloyd's CA study early because he had asked me a couple of questions. Honestly, I only posted a link to it because I knew that readers here were interested in the topic. In the future I will be less naive about the likelihood of hostility."
Best regards
Erik
I had the same issue with the 100mm, but I am not sure if it a lens issue a sensor limitation.
It seems that this is nothing new and that older backs, both on P1 and Hassy, can also exhibit this kind of purple fringing in some circumstances, typically a very bright area close to a dark one.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Sorry guys, I was requested not to publish the images I shot, regardless of this issue.
Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard,
If you want to buy a camera, you get to do what you want with your sample images - or else you cannot get that camera. Either the firmware is really immature or the dealer is :)
BTW, I had a lot of purple color fringing issues on the 1Ds with my Canon 85/1.2, but not with the later cameras, I believe. It's annoying because it pops up in real-world situations, and I had to sell some prints in B&W because of it
Also, I know (not surmise or believe) that Leica *knew* about UV issues on the S2, and filtration is built into the original lenses because it was too late to change the sensor. That doesn't mean they had purple fringing. I don't think the purple fringing issue boils down to one specific factor, but software/firmware can probably mitigate it to some degree.
Edmund
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Landscapephoto
The 100mm is a very good lens, but was not designed for what you want to do. It is a fast double-Gauss design and shows the advantages (for portraits) and disadvantages (for what you intend to do) of that classical design. If you need a lens around that focal length, you will probably be more satisfied with the HD-120 II macro (not the first version), which is very well corrected even at large distances. Unfortunately, the HD-120 II is quite large and heavy.
I'm not disagreeing with you but from the images I've made with the 100mm it seem to preform to a degree that was astonishing in the final image. Again we might have a different opinion when tested with the larger sensor without the x factor. I must admit though shooting 40-50 images with a Seitz Roundshot VR head with both the 100mm and the newest 120mm the 120 was a bit more touchy weight wise but the seitz handled it well. More of the issue one can have is with the brackets you use giving unwanted vibrations setting a delay in acquiring the image sequence seem to solve the vibrations but...that brings into play with nature movements of leaves, branches, water and clouds. Can't win for losing? In my experience the purple fringing comes in to play based on the direction of the light. I love to shoot into the sun but several of my lenses don't this is when I noticed the most image issues then the camera, lenses and/or sensors can handle. However maybe the images with sunspots, flare and fringing have there appeal to some people and we shouldn't be so critical.
Changing the channel I even used the 120mm with the HTS 1.5 and it works but as I was told by Hassy its to heavy and not recommended. Also for what I was photographing the tilt for small products didn't make enough of a difference to completely solve the entire problem of depth of field but did knock down my image stacking by about 30%. That use of the HTS 1.5 also creates a new monster with the 1.5x even when backing up you still can't fill enough of the sensor to get the most out of 50MB. (without shooting 80-100 stacked images bring in to play many other issues) Its more like you only get 50% of the sensor covering the image.
On another note if anyone has had some experience with the 100c I sure hope (wish) they would share it on this forum. I know several units have been shipped but it seems the owners are tight lipped at this time.
Regards
Barry
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Changing the channel I even used the 120mm with the HTS 1.5 and it works but as I was told by Hassy its to heavy and not recommended.
That is surprising. The 120mm cannot be mounted on the HTS: the lens barrel is too wide and collides with the HTS mechanics.
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Might slap an extension tube on yours and try it.
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Might slap an extension tube on yours and try it.
That will work mechanically but give poor results optically.
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I have done this (Extention tube with the 120 on the HTS), indeed the results are pretty poor. The 100 with extention tubes on the HTS performs noticably better.
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Yes I agree better results without HTS 1.5 on the 120mm and extension tube. I heard some photographers have tried the 50mm ii + macro convertor and HTS 1.5 don't know if that set up made a huge difference. That's why I have asked Hassy to make a proper 180mm macro! Or better yet give us a little better HTS.
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Hi Bernard,
I started a thread on that issue on DPReview, here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58587353
In addition, I have checked around a bit on the net. It is hard to tell without seeing your samples, but it seems to be some kind of consensus that correction of axial chroma is the main issue and that it can be handled using proper filtration.
As I said before, excellent correction of axial chroma may be the defining advantage of the Otus lenses.
Just to say, the dominance of the Otuses may not be forever, the folks in Japan know how to design lenses. I have been much impressed with three samples of the Canon 16-35/4L I had the opportunity to shoot, and Canon just released 16-35/2.8 with much superior test data compared to that 16-35/4L.
I don't know that much about Nikon, but I am pretty sure they are not sleeping, and neither is Sigma or Tamron.
Best regards
Erik
I had the same issue with the 100mm, but I am not sure if it a lens issue a sensor limitation.
It seems that this is nothing new and that older backs, both on P1 and Hassy, can also exhibit this kind of purple fringing in some circumstances, typically a very bright area close to a dark one.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Yes I agree better results without HTS 1.5 on the 120mm and extension tube. I heard some photographers have tried the 50mm ii + macro convertor and HTS 1.5 don't know if that set up made a huge difference. That's why I have asked Hassy to make a proper 180mm macro! Or better yet give us a little better HTS.
You are comparing apples and oranges here.
The only practical reason do use the HTS for macro work is when one needs to tilt. A 180 macro would not change that, unless it would be a tilt lens.
The 120 macro (I and II, which are exactly the same size) cannot be directly mounted on the HTS. They can be mounted on an extension tube and then on the HTS or directly on the camera, but mounting a macro lens of the kind on an extension tube gives poor optical results.
If you want to use the HTS with a macro lens, indeed the 50-II + macro converter is the solution suggested by Hasselblad and works very well. Alternatively, use the 80mm lens and the extension tube on the HTS (I think you have these).
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This is getting kinda redundant but I need to fill the frame with a 25mm object and also get the most depth of field to reduce the amount of exposures for stacking without going to a view camera.
The 180mm lens would allow me to;
1.Move the camera stand farther back
2.Get my lights in a better front position without me crowding the object.
3.Allow me to fill more of the sensor yielding a higher resolution cropped master file to work with.
4.Use the Phocus software to move the internal focusing elements of the mounted lens which creats a better stack and faster shooting for production work.
5 Adding the NEW IMPROVED HTS with tilt would then reduce the amount of stacking by 30%. EX. 1000 items x 50 stacks ea = 15,000 less images per 1000 items. Without counting retouching hours shooting time alone would be a reduction of 250 hours or ten days of my life.
6.It would also be beneficial to have the ability of shift to give me more flexibility to avoid hot spots/reflections.
PS I'm looking for help to reduce the amount of time spent in my workflow making the image with a 50mb back cropped ends up being about 15-18MB at that size they are tough to print 30x40 and hold the desired detail. I'm on this forum to give and take but that doesn't mean I don't have needs and for personal reasons I like to fill those needs. For me its a business if I can persuade myself that I need to buy something to help me do the job better, faster or easier I buy it and if it doesn't work out I sell it. Many times people on this forum and others have been informative and helpful other times not.
This was not the topic of the thread so I apologize for the ranting.
I'm trying not to shut the door on your toe..but you seem to like it.
Barry