Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: bluekorn on October 12, 2016, 04:49:47 pm
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Hello Photographers,
I am fortunate to have to choose between an XE2 4.0 with 18-55 and a GX8 with 12-35. I have to sell one of them. Once in 10,000 shutter clicks, if I'm lucky, I have an image that I want to print. So I don't own a printer. I live in northern Minnesota where there are skilled printers but no one seems to be familiar with the X-trans sensor. I like the jpegs, as reportedly do many pros, from the XE2. I import them to Aperture on an iMac that is now eight years old.
I've had two professional printers print jpegs for me that are truly properly exposed. The Panasonic files come out just fine and the Fuji files seem to be a little off, close, but not quite right. I don't really have the knowledge to talk nerd with these guys and neither of them, as I said, knows of the x-trans sensor. So here are my questions, one specific, one very general. When importing x-trans jpeg files from the XE2 memory card onto my computer, do I need to use some kind of soft wear other than Aperture to eventually gain the best printed image possible? Are there other mysterious considerations with the X-trans sensor?
I'm leaning toward keeping the Fuji but I don't want it if the X-trans sensor is going to be an impediment when I finally want to print my masterpiece. Thanks for any insights.
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Let's start with what color space are your shooting with, and what color space are the files your giving to your printer?
Peter
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Hello Photographers,
I am fortunate to have to choose between an XE2 4.0 with 18-55 and a GX8 with 12-35. I have to sell one of them. Once in 10,000 shutter clicks, if I'm lucky, I have an image that I want to print. So I don't own a printer. I live in northern Minnesota where there are skilled printers but no one seems to be familiar with the X-trans sensor. I like the jpegs, as reportedly do many pros, from the XE2. I import them to Aperture on an iMac that is now eight years old.
I've had two professional printers print jpegs for me that are truly properly exposed. The Panasonic files come out just fine and the Fuji files seem to be a little off, close, but not quite right. I don't really have the knowledge to talk nerd with these guys and neither of them, as I said, knows of the x-trans sensor. So here are my questions, one specific, one very general. When importing x-trans jpeg files from the XE2 memory card onto my computer, do I need to use some kind of soft wear other than Aperture to eventually gain the best printed image possible? Are there other mysterious considerations with the X-trans sensor?
I'm leaning toward keeping the Fuji but I don't want it if the X-trans sensor is going to be an impediment when I finally want to print my masterpiece. Thanks for any insights.
Peter
if you have OOC JPGs then forget about x-trans, they are already demosaicked for you by a raw converter in camera's firmware and you deal with them just with any other OOC JPGs... for example if camera settings are exhausted then you need a postprocessing software then can properly resize/sharp for a specific printer... and then may be you have to decide if you want to shoot OOC JPG in AdobeRGB ( as you might print some of them and there might be colors you want that are outside sRGB - like local minnesota parrots ;D ) or sRGB
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This is probably less so an x-trans thing than a printer issue. Especially if you are using jpg. If your lab is sending it straight to their printer, there may be color differences. If they are proofing and making adjustments for their specific equipment profiles, it should be a lot closer. If they are adjusting, maybe the tech is adjusting to their tastes and not yours. Maybe start there and see if they are soft proofing the file or not and making print adjustments. Every camera I've ever had has printed colors slightly different on the same ink and paper sets. Once profiled and proofed though, they are virtually identical. This sounds like normal print adjustment process. If it's not working out, try sending the file to a well known printer online like mpix, whcc, etc... and see what you get. Try both ways, order a print in both corrected and uncorrected printing.
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I am shooting ooc jpgs in sRGB and submitting the same to the printer. I don't know what it means to exhaust camera settings. I think what I'm coming to understand is that inherently there is nothing about the x-trans sensor itself that would compromise the printing process. Right? And Panasonic or Fuji...six of one, half dozen of the other?
And that soft proofing would be one way to begin to integrate the printing process.
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I don't know what it means to exhaust camera settings.
NR, sharpening, etc... one can assume that for example you sharpen differently to print vs to view on screen... so if you can't get proper parameters for OOC JPG in camera then you might want to shift the job to something on your computer (and, for example, do not do anything extreme in camera then)
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Also...just to put it out there...not trying to make any assumptions....
Maybe the printers are soft proofing and giving you a very close image to how they see it. Potentially your monitor could be showing you wrong colors. Most people don't calibrate their screens, or have a pro color monitor like an Eizo. You might think the colors are one way, or you adjust them based on what you see...but then someone printing with calibrated gear sees something else.
Welcome to the world of printing!
I tell people if you must... trust a recent iPad before a generic computer monitor! That will reveal at least closer to the truth of what the image currently looks like. Monitors change color over time too.
The day I bought an eizo was eye opening....I went back through so many images experiencing them for the first time all over again!
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Yes indeed. "Welcome to the world of printing". When the rare occasion arises that I have a file that I deem worthy and want to concretize for display as a print...it ain't easy, especially so since I haven't made the investment to print for myself and have to hand off the work flow midstream. At least now, thanks to your responses, I'm beginning to understand that there are bountiful complexities in the printing process and that printing digitally is in its own way just as difficult as the darkroom from the days of yore.
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here is a start if working from LR,
https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom-Photoshop/dp/0321908457
or
https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Digital-Printing-Second-Process/dp/1592004318/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1476466651&sr=1-11&keywords=printing+digital+images
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Well, not really "Welcome to the world of printing" but "Welcome to the world of Color Management"
There is an entire forum here on LuLa for this topic alone and it is a busy forum.
Have Fun!
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I'm not an expert in this: why should any difference in print of jpg?
If one jpg gets printed and looks similar to the screen, then another jpg from that computer should behave the same regardless of the camera it came from, right?
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Well yes Armand, I would think so too. But then there is also the certainty that cmos sensors and x-trans sensors are constructed differently and gather light in unique ways and, me thinks, deliver jpgs that are somehow different one from the other. I don't know enough to speak to this but it seems that the differences in the rendered jpgs makes a difference in the printing process. I would love to be disabused of this notion.
Peter
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Peter if you don't have a calibrated/profiled monitor I think you're shooting in the dark ;)
Fuji X-trans can deliver a different look from other cameras even with JPEGs. That is usually due to Fuji's experience with color and b&w films and the fact that you can emulate those film stocks in camera. That doesn't seem to be the case as you've described it.
If the print looks different from what you see on your monitor the first suspect is the calibration of your monitor. The second suspect would be the consistency of the print shop.
As mentioned, soft proofing can help reduce the difference if your print shop is willing to share a printer profile with you.
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Thank you Ron et al,
Soft proofing with a shared printer profile. I will pursue this line with a little more confidence. Much appreciation. I,m thinking of first getting a MacBook Air to replace my old iMac and installing the simplist version of Lightroom. A local friend has told me that these latest laptops are far superior to my old desktop.
Peter
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Sadly the Macbook Air has a rather crappy screen, in both gamut and viewing angles.. I'd recommend a second-hand Macbook Pro Retina in that case.
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Even if you get an xrite or datacolor unit and calibrate the laptop screen, don't expect it to match perfectly. Those will never get you 100%. Even my eizo displays just warm of what I'm printing. That means I'm actually printing cool. It's close enough that I Don't put in the extra effort to close the gap. It works for me great. And if I need it closer, the epson print management screen has an option to warm up or cool the printing on the fly.
I have a MacBook Pro retina laptop and my wife has the air. My images viewed on either do not look like the eizo. Even my MacBook is calibrated and i don't even trust it for critical editing work. It depends. What is good enough for you. If I was outsourcing prints and knowing the. Techs are going to refine and soft proof anyways, ide be fine with color work on a laptop.
If you in tend on doing a lot of your own print work, and take it seriously, the laptop screens will frustrate you in the long run. You can get the lowest end eizo for like 750 I think. Or find a used one. Even if you use a laptop, you can still output a signal when at home and use the monitor for critical work.
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Thanks Tony, I have a bunch of decisions to make regarding having prints made versus learning to print myself and investing in new equipment. I really appreciate all the suggestions made by those addressing my questions.
Peter
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What is an 00c jpeg?
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Out-Of-Camera
Jpg file using camera's raw conversion.
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Thanks
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Maybe the lab your trying to use is trying to move your inages closer to what they are used to seeing?
Having lived with an XPro-2 for a month now I love the color that I'm seeing in the Fuji images (raw and jpegs) and the difference from my native Nikon images.
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