Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: funfoto on September 10, 2016, 12:50:47 am
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http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/2730-sp/
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The comparisons to a "typical" monitor are questionable at best. I'd like to see supporting data for their claim that this monitor is stabilized and ready for calibration in just 3 minutes. And what about that puny little calibration sensor that, of all places, seems to be in a fixed location in the middle of the top area. If you hadn't picked up on it yet, I'm a little skeptical.
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Not sure which comparisons you mean, and I would also say that respected third party supporting data would be nice to have for any equipment and will in time I am sure be available.
As to the calibration device Eizo have had this for a few years now and I am not aware of too many complaints - but of course would be open to correction by those with first hand experience.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh7cQTjhL0M
Out of all monitor manufacturers there are two that spring to mind as noted for quality, reliability and customer service Eizo and NEC.
So for me I would be starting with the premise that claims could be substantiated accepting that YMMV
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And what about that puny little calibration sensor that, of all places, seems to be in a fixed location in the middle of the top area. If you hadn't picked up on it yet, I'm a little skeptical.
as they have (or for skeptic like you - claim to have) a sufficiently uniform ( in terms of luminocity/chromacity output ) panel it can be there... the size of the "sensor" (the puck) is mostly for optics (for colorimeter to collect enough light /and fast enough/ to be precise in the deep shadows) - but with their selected panels and "electronics" supporting uniformity they do not need to measure deep shadows - just the white point/intensity = small size and the rest is adjusted from there in monitor... my $0.02
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The comparisons to a "typical" monitor are questionable at best. I'd like to see supporting data for their claim that this monitor is stabilized and ready for calibration in just 3 minutes.
Like the justification that Solux bulbs as measured produce the CCT values they state? We both know that's not true but only because one of us actually measured the bulb.
And what about that puny little calibration sensor that, of all places, seems to be in a fixed location in the middle of the top area. If you hadn't picked up on it yet, I'm a little skeptical.
So the size of the colorimeter is a deciding factor on it's qualities? Where did you come up with that concept?
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Hi,
Interesting but I would like to ask.
For those who have no access to the monitors of EIZO or NEC, what would you recommend ?
I have been buying since many years ViewSonic monitors and the last one I bought is the VP2772
http://www.viewsonic.com/us/vp2772.html
What is your opinion about the ViewSonic brand ? I hope I am not Hijacking this thread. If so I will post it as a new message
I have also read about ASUS and DELL monitors. What is your experience wiht these.
Thanks in advance and regards
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If past history is any indication in products, display or otherwise, I'd skip ViewSonic when you've got Eizo and NEC as options.
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If past history is any indication in products, display or otherwise, I'd skip ViewSonic when you've got Eizo and NEC as options.
Thanks Andrew but if EIZO and NEC as I said before are remote options or very expensive ?
Why such a bad opinion about ViewSonic or at least I read that from your comment ...
Thanks
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Thanks Andrew but if EIZO and NEC as I said before are remote options or very expensive ?
Why such a bad opinion about ViewSonic or at least I read that from your comment ...
Keep in mind that I haven't used any ViewSonic products in years. In the past, I found the product (which are all just OEM'ed with their label slapped on) merely adequate at best in terms of quality and features.
I can provide a copy and paste of what the current PA series of NEC provides so you can compare to ViewSonic and others, and keep in mind, with high end reference display systems, you get what you pay for. Maybe that's my justification for a $5K Barco Reference display (CRT) back in the days when a dollar was worth more than today! ;D
1. Nearly all if not all current SpectraView displays are wide gamut, Apple's and most other's are not (sRGB like gamut) with the exception of the new iMac P3 displays. But SpectraView can emulate sRGB with a push of a button. The new P3 iMac cannot. Best of both worlds!
2. SpectraView uses a high bit internal processing path (at least 10-bit) with internal 3D LUTs, many other's do not. These high bit LUTs allow precise adjustments to be made to the display’s Tone Response Curve without reducing the number of displayable colors or introducing color banding artifacts.
3. Newer NEC SpectraView's use GBr LED which produce far more precise control of White Point, run cooler, use less energy, run far longer than CCFL.
4. SpectraView has 3-4 year on site warranty.
5. SpectraView panels are hand selected from the manufacturer line (pick of the litter).
6. SpectraView has electric technologies like ColorComp, which adjusts and improves screen (brightness) uniformity using individually measured matrices for each display at the factory. All done high bit with compensation for operating time and temperature.
7. SpectraView has electric technologies like GammaComp, to adjust the monitor's internal 10-bit gamma Look-Up-Table, allowing various custom display gamma or Tone-Response-Curves to be achieved. Apple and many other's don't have anything like this.
8. SpectraView is a smart display system that integrates custom software for calibration including multiple target calibration's which can be loaded to adjust the display while loading the associated ICC profile, Apple (and few other products aside from Eizo) cannot do this. To quote from the manual: “SpectraView communicates with the display monitors using Display Data Channel - Command Interface (DDC/CI) which is a two-way communications link between the video graphics adapter and display monitor using the normal video signal cable. No extra cables are necessary. All adjustments to the monitor settings are done automatically using this communications link. It is not necessary to manually configure the monitor as all of the necessary settings are made by the software“. Apple and other's has nothing like this, nor can 3rd party software you have to pay for extra do this. This is an attribute built from the ground up in SpectraView to serve as a 'reference display system' ala Barco, PressView, Sony Artisan of the past.
9. SpectraView will bundle a custom mated Colorimeter with their software for calibration. The price you pay for software and colorimeter with the SpectraView, depending on what country you live in costs significantly less than buying the hardware and software for a non SpectraView. And that extra money will not provide a fraction of the capabilities outlined.
10. SpectraView PA series offer the ability to calibrate WITHOUT a Colorimeter with the FREE Multiprofiler software since each panel is measured with a very expensive spectroradiometer and that data is embedded in a chip in the panel. It can update the calibration as the unit ages to ensure calibration.
11. SpectraView can emulate with a single click other behaviors, again on the fly, so it can simulate a non wide gamut display (sRGB) among other standardized behaviors (Broadcast Video DICOM, etc)
12. SpectraView has internal electronic control over contrast ratio, few others can provide this control over black. Real useful for soft proofing on media that has differing contrast ratio's (matt vs. glossy papers).
13. SpectraView has Network support (Windows only).
14. SpectraView has provisions to lock the display controls so no accidental alteration to behavior by mistake.
15. SpectraView displays allow the user to raise and lower the display for best viewing position AND it can be rotated 90 degrees for Portrait.
16. Several SpectraView's support Picture in Picture (you can have two differing calibration's per picture).
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Hi Andrew,
Appreciate a lot for that huge info you have given me :)
Will try to compare it to the VP2772 specs as well as search for a possible dealer of NEC monitors here in Mexico and compare prices then.
Again thanks and regards
Rainer
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Hi,
I did a search and found in the page http://www.tomshardware.com/
OK I do not know how good is the testing there but seems to be very in depth testing
See below attached comparison image. For the Viewsonic he mentions in the test
Obviously, the Adobe RGB gamut is an important element for graphics work. And having a display able to render Adobe RGB and sRGB with better-than two Delta E accuracy is critical. The VP2772 satisfies that requirement, and we're hoping this flexibility becomes a trend. I've tested Adobe-only monitors in the past and found them to be accurate. But the inability to switch to sRGB hampers their versatility. Playing games or watching video in Adobe RGB just doesn’t look right. Green, which the human eye is most sensitive to, always looks off. And when you look at the CIE chart, you can see why.
Another specification we haven’t touched on is bit-depth. The vast majority of IPS monitors, in all sizes, employ natively eight-bit panels. Regardless of the incoming signal's big depth, the panel can only render a maximum of 16.7 million colors. In high-end graphics, obviously, the more colors the better. ViewSonic's VP2772 adds frame rate conversion to increase its input bit depth to 10. Then it adds a 12-bit processing stage and a 14-bit look-up table to the signal output.
and for the NEC PA272W he mentions
Photographers looking for a color-critical display will certainly be attracted to this panel’s 10-bit native color and 14-bit internal LUT. You need a 10-bit signal path to take full advantage, but the bandwidth is there for those who need it.
what for me sound the same capabilities of both ¿?
As I already have a X-Rite i1Pro calibration hardware that is of less importance.
will keep searching
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colorimeter is a deciding factor on it's qualities? Where did you come up with that concept?
I'm not sure it's actually a colorimeter ;)
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I'm not sure it's actually a colorimeter ;)
and what else can it be ? it measures something - so what does it measure ?
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*Only* NEC/Eizo have uniform displays, all others do not have...
Toms's Hardware is a good site, but they do not know how to evaluate a monitor, basically
only http://tftcentral.co.uk and http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testberichte.html
do a decent review...
ViewSonic VP2772 review http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/viewsonic_vp2772.htm
NEC PA272w-bk http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2014/test-nec-pa272w-bk.html
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and what else can it be ? it measures something - so what does it measure ?
Maybe "Not a Colorimeter" in the sense that it doesn't attempt to measure with CIE/human spectral sensitivities. Industrial color sensors for instance, are not Colorimeters, yet would be perfectly suitable for calibrating a specific display type.
(I have no information on whether the ColorEdge widget is a Colorimeter or not.)
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Maybe "Not a Colorimeter" in the sense that it doesn't attempt to measure with CIE/human spectral sensitivities.
cant' we call anything that has a sensor behind a uniform color filter (or several) a colorimeter ?
does not matter whether it has 1 filter, 3 filters, 4 filters no matter what are their spectrum transmission curves or even many very narrow band (even approaching spectrometer-type devices spectrum resolution wise)...
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*Only* NEC/Eizo have uniform displays, all others do not have...
Toms's Hardware is a good site, but they do not know how to evaluate a monitor, basically
only http://tftcentral.co.uk and http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testberichte.html
do a decent review...
ViewSonic VP2772 review http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/viewsonic_vp2772.htm
NEC PA272w-bk http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2014/test-nec-pa272w-bk.html
Hi Pictus,
Thank you. I have a problem with those 2 sites ;D
They did not test each monitor in question. One tested the NEC and the other one tested the Viewsonic but they did not test viceversa, whereas Toms Hardware did test both :)
Thanks anyhow. Just installed my VP2772 and in the next days I will compare the VP2772 profile coming out from my i1Pro sprectrophotometer compared to Adobe RGB which I think will tell me what the monitor offers me.
I also will compare the VP2770 profile to the VP2772 profile and see if I did great a wider colour space.
As i said before, the problem for me is to get in Mexico the Monitors you get on each corner shop in USA ;)
Apologies for the original message poster that I am discussing this here.
regards Rainer
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Hi Rainer,
I have never used, but I read that the Benq SW2700PT has a good coverage of the Adobe RGB space with internal LUT tables. Cheaper than the NEC or EIZO equivalents.
LuLa has a review of it https://luminous-landscape.com/benq-sw2700pt-27-inch-adobe-rgb-monitor-review/
If you're not subscribed, Keith Cooper also did a review of it with more or less the same conclusions... http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/monitor/benq-sw2700.html .
If you search in the forum there are some users of that monitor around.
Regards,
David
http://dgpfotografia.com
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Hi Rainer,
I have never used, but I read that the Benq SW2700PT has a good coverage of the Adobe RGB space with internal LUT tables. Cheaper than the NEC or EIZO equivalents.
LuLa has a review of it https://luminous-landscape.com/benq-sw2700pt-27-inch-adobe-rgb-monitor-review/
If you're not subscribed, Keith Cooper also did a review of it with more or less the same conclusions... http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/monitor/benq-sw2700.html .
If you search in the forum there are some users of that monitor around.
Regards,
David
http://dgpfotografia.com
Thank you David
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Regarding the BenQ ,,,,,The noted reviews here on Lula and at NorthernLights.com in my mind, said it was in many ways the equal or better than the NEC 272W. But they were not head to head reviews. I haven't seen that yet anywhere. But for sake of argument, let's say it isn't "quite as good in all ways" as the NEC. How does the pricing compare? Currently from B and H in the US for 27" monitors,
NEC PA 272W including Spectraview colorimeter $1,400; plus $106 hood = $1,506
BenQ SW2700PT including hood $600; plus i1 Display Pro colorimeter $225 = $ 825
I'm not sure, but I think the "competing" Eizo monitor costs more than the NEC by quite a bit.
I use the prior NEC model, the 2690 with Sprectraview colorimeter. Had it for the past 6 or 7 years,. I like it a lot. But unless bad reviews or experiences come up regarding the BenQ, when I have to replace my NEC 2690, I'm buying the BenQ. It is an easy decision for me.
Brad