Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Jim Kasson on September 06, 2016, 12:00:13 pm
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The recent threads on monitor brightness got me thinking about surrounds and room illumination.
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=15602
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=15616
I think the topic of the size and tone of the surround doesn't get the attention and respect that it deserves when we discuss image editing. I can think of one exception (there may be others): Charlie Cramer hammers the point home in his printing workshops.
Back in the early 90's, I thought that by now this issue would have been handled with sophisticated color appearance models. That is not the standard practice today.
Jim
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Are you talking about the workspace background (I'm not sure the official term) in Photoshop? If so, I agree it's critical. I always have mine set to white, and this helps avoiding too dark prints (much more so than room lighting, I think). Strangely white is not available as one of the pre-set options (Black, Dark Gray, Medium Gray etc) - you have to set it up as a custom background. I would love to be able to set a white background in ACR, but it seems fixed as a mid grey. (I'm still on CS6, perhaps more options are built into the current version.)
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Are you talking about the workspace background (I'm not sure the official term) in Photoshop?
If the image isn't too big compared to the screen (and assuming you're using Ps full screen), that determines the surround.
Jim
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Going back to the locked threads and comments by Karl Lang. He's always proposed that there be a bit of white in the soft proof surround with paper white simulation, which would aid in users not perceiving the image being 'too bright' such that we don't end up with 'prints that are too dark'. We see this to some degree in Lightroom when invoking a soft proof. It's an off white and it gradually (although not slow enough) fades in. LR's dark interface aids too but any menu's or other GUI elements that are white (as white as the display is currently calibrated for, not the paper white simulation) can cause visual issues here.
Bruce Fraser used to recommend that when soft proofing or for critical viewing, hide all Photoshop palettes and move into full screen mode. The issue with PS then and today is when you turn on soft proofing with the paper white simulation, it isn't gradual and you get the visual effect of what Jeff Schewe called the "make my images look like crap button". Bruce recommended one turn their head away, invoke the soft proof with paper white simulation and full screen mode [size=78%]via the keyboard[/size][size=78%], then look back so you don't see the preview update. The appearance doesn't look anywhere as bad as when you watch your (perhaps) 1200:1 contrast ratio display, with white being as white as it's setting for the UI instantly change on screen to the more appropriate and ideally 'correct' soft proof preview. So LR is moving in the right direction here, noting has changed within Photoshop. [/size]
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I can see on Jim's first link of the kid and juice box that the black surround would've made me edit the background shelving on the right to look darker and the white surround would've made me brighten it. Been there done that. I compare the numbers in the image to a 21 step grayramp file and its accompanying print.
Don't know if this would influence my edits in this way with all scenes of varying dynamic ranges and contrast differences.
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Interesting, what about the actual colour of your working area? I have been considering re-painting my studio a grey tone. Is there a theory behind such an idea. My studio is currently bright white lit by a softened D50 source.
Generally when I hard proof I pin prints to my white wall for close inspection and consideration. Any thoughts most welcome.
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Interesting, what about the actual colour of your working area?
That's important if your ambient light level is high.
I have been considering re-painting my studio a grey tone. Is there a theory behind such an idea. My studio is currently bright white lit by a softened D50 source.
I've seen gray studios. I worked in one once. They're kind of depressing, if you ask me. Better IMHO to keep the chromaticity neutral, paint the walls white, and turn down the light level.
I now have a remote on my desk to kill the lights when I want to judge color and tone critically. Then it doesn't matter what color the room is.
Generally when I hard proof I pin prints to my white wall for close inspection and consideration. Any thoughts most welcome.
That works. What I do is print proofs on paper the same size as the mat will be, with the image at actual size in the middle of the paper.
Jim
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Jim, What kind of remote gear do you use to switch the lighting off? I'm interested to do the same thing. I have hard-wired track lighting with two SoLux bulbs that is switched on and off with a wall switch. Thanks.
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Jim, What kind of remote gear do you use to switch the lighting off? I'm interested to do the same thing. I have hard-wired track lighting with two SoLux bulbs that is switched on and off with a wall switch. Thanks.
Use 'the Google' and type in Lutron.
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Use 'the Google' and type in Lutron.
Been there, done that, but I need two on/off switches in a standard wall box that are remotely controlled and it doesn't look like Lutron has that. Any other suggestions?
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Been there, done that, but I need two on/off switches in a standard wall box that are remotely controlled and it doesn't look like Lutron has that. Any other suggestions?
Yes, Lutron does make such a switch that fit standard wall boxes, with remotes, that can simply turn the lights on and off; I own several and many running Solux. Plus, not all such devices support MR16 bulbs.
Perhaps Jim will have an answer you prefer.
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Yes, Lutron does make such a switch that fit standard wall boxes, with remotes, that can simply turn the lights on and off; I own several and many running Solux. Plus, not all such devices support MR16 bulbs.
Perhaps Jim will have an answer you prefer.
Probably not. I use the Lutron wall switch myself. I've never tried to have two remotes and two switches in the same room.
Jim
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I use Insteon remote switches to control lighting around the house. They are about the size of a pack of gum. You link them with wall switches or outlets. Pretty easy to use and much more reliable than the old X10 junk.
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Yes, guys, I've seen the same things, but I have 2 switches in 1 standard wall box and I need to remotely control at least one of those two switches. I haven't yet found remotely controlled switches that fit 2 in 1 standard box. And Andrew, why wouldn't such a switch support MR16 bulbs? A SoLux MR16 bulb is dimmable and takes no more than 50W, so even if you have say 10 of those in the circuit, you are talking about 500W or less than 5 amps; any switch should be able to handle that.
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Pay attention :o
https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/dimmers.html
we have a list of products that some of us have used in our own homes. Your results may vary from our results and Tailored Lighting is not responsible for any harm, injury, or damage that may result from using any type of dimmer with SoLux. We do not have any experience dimming track light fixtures, closet lights, and laundry light fixtures so extra care should be taken.
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Pay attention :o
https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/dimmers.html
we have a list of products that some of us have used in our own homes. Your results may vary from our results and Tailored Lighting is not responsible for any harm, injury, or damage that may result from using any type of dimmer with SoLux. We do not have any experience dimming track light fixtures, closet lights, and laundry light fixtures so extra care should be taken.
Oh, I'm paying attention alright! SoLux doesn't contradict my statement that SoLux MR16 bulbs are dimmable, they caution that results with dimmers may vary and that color temperature, output levels and life expectancy will change. The SoLux MR16 bulbs can be dimmed with:
a) a variable dc power source
b) a dc power source with pulse width modulation
c) a dimmer connected between the power outlet and the transformer fixture that feeds the MR16 bulb; results with this approach may vary, depending on the dimmer and the transformer fixture
Moreover, as I clearly stated, I'm interested in switching the SoLux bulbs on and off, not dimming them. Simply switching them on and off will greatly reduce the chances of having problems with dimmers when used in on/off mode only.
So, Andrew, what exactly is your issue with what I wrote?
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Tell us what you want to hear Frans, maybe one of us will state it, even if it isn't factual.
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Do me a favor and explain what your issue is with what I wrote, Andrew.
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Do me a favor and explain what your issue is with what I wrote, Andrew.
I'll do Chris a favor and ignore you before this thread, like the other's you've recently posted in, gets locked.
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Yes, guys, I've seen the same things, but I have 2 switches in 1 standard wall box and I need to remotely control at least one of those two switches. I haven't yet found remotely controlled switches that fit 2 in 1 standard box. And Andrew, why wouldn't such a switch support MR16 bulbs? A SoLux MR16 bulb is dimmable and takes no more than 50W, so even if you have say 10 of those in the circuit, you are talking about 500W or less than 5 amps; any switch should be able to handle that.
Only when a halogen bulb being cold has very low resistente so it will dRaw a huge current pak until being Hot. A dc power supply will failliet. Your switoch need to be able to handle a large current surge. More like a 10 folder of the the current when Hot.
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Only when a halogen bulb being cold has very low resistente so it will dRaw a huge current pak until being Hot. A dc power supply will failliet. Your switoch need to be able to handle a large current surge. More like a 10 folder of the the current when Hot.
That all depends on the actual inrush current and the peak current capability of the power supply and switch. My Juno transformer fixtures, for instance, have no problem powering 50W SoLux bulbs.
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If we all follow Bart, he goes away.....
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I talked to Lutron and they confirmed that they don't have remote switches or dimmers that fit two in a single gang wall box. They do have dimmers with dual outputs that fit into a single gang wall box; one output is for dimming (or switching on and off) a light and the other is for a fan motor, but will not work with lights.