Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on August 23, 2016, 04:56:29 pm
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Following months of media domination by Hassy, any hot P1 rumors for the upcoming Kina?
Cheers,
Bernard
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Following months of media domination by Hassy, any hot P1 rumors for the upcoming Kina?
Cheers,
Bernard
I think Phase have decided to purchase the Ferrari license which Hassy have abandoned :)
More seriously, the Kumamoto earthquake has probably delayed the announcements of the next MF cameras from any manufacturer. I wonder whether Pentax will announce.
Edmund
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I think Phase have decided to purchase the Ferrari license which Hassy have abandoned :)
Yeah... it looks like Hasselblad had a preference towards Aston Martin instead and if Leica/Sinar goes for Lamborchini, I guess that Porsche licence will be acquired by a new comer...
More seriously, the Kumamoto earthquake has probably delayed the announcements of the next MF cameras from any manufacturer. I wonder whether Pentax will announce.
I doubt that... announcements are different to production, they add prestige and (future) sales to the announcer...
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Yeah... it looks like Hasselblad had a preference towards Aston Martin instead and if Leica/Sinar goes for Lamborchini, I guess that Porsche licence will be acquired by a new comer...
I doubt that... announcements are different to production, they add prestige and (future) sales to the announcer...
Osborne effect.
Edmund
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P1 has no own booth at photokina. They share it with calumet. This info is from my phase one dealer. They need to save some money? Could they invest for a new product?
I think they do not show us a new mirrorless camera because the XF cam sells very good and they have to do a lot to ship it to the customers in an acceptable delivery time ..
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I think they do not show us a new mirrorless camera because the XF cam sells very good and they have to do a lot to ship it to the customers in an acceptable delivery time ..
A mirrorless is basically a repacked MFDB with mount in front of the sensor. As with Hasselblad X1D, a mirrorless will be compared directly in price with the respective MFDB available from the same maker (CFV -50c for Hasselblad)... I don't think that Phase One will ever release a mirrorless unless they first revise their pricing policy.... Especially since there are more MF mirrorless expected in the marked at an even lower price level than the X1D coming from mass market makers. Lets not forget that other than Leica, all the rest of the mirrorless are expected to share the same sensor.
Another thing a maker has to consider is the specification of such a camera... MF mirrorless should mean Hi-end video included in the specs and then a capable software to support the feature. In Hasselblad they seem to have realized the importance of Hi-End video presence in the specs and have been working for a long time with other makers (Arri, DJI) as to have access/assistance to the know-how needed as to get started and ensure a secure future path to the customer...
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The one open place in the market for MF mirrorless would be a 54x40 offering. Phase one could try that at a higher price point. I'm not saying it would or would not sell well, but of all the options open to them it might appear to be the most attractive.
Dave
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The easiest way to do mirrorless for P1 would be to release an EVF based finder for the current XF camera.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The easiest way to do mirrorless for P1 would be to release an EVF based finder for the current XF camera.
Cheers,
Bernard
+1 on that.
Paul C
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The easiest way to do mirrorless for P1 would be to release an EVF based finder for the current XF camera.
Cheers,
Bernard
That could interest some users of the XF platform, but I don't see how it would turn the XF body to mirrorless as the mirror box would still be there or how it could add sales to the XF plarform... Usually what attracts customers to mirrorless (out of advanced photographers) is the reduction in size and the reduced mounting distance which makes the camera compatible with view cameras... an EVF can't do either of those....
IMO, looking to the direct competition of P1 - which undoubtedly is Hasselblad, P1 needs urgently (many) new products as to compete... Lets not forget that (according to the CEO of Hasselblad) "there will be even more surprises at Photokina"....
If one looks and compares between the two firms:
1. P1 has the XF platform and then four backs for it (IQ-1/50, 2/50, 3/50 & 3/100), which are directly competed by Hasselblad H6D-50c & 100c and then at a better price but with additional video features and film compatibility.... All other backs out of P1 are with discontinued CCD sensors (much like the H5D-60) that will no longer be available after stock of sensors expires.
2. Mamiya/Leaf has an outdated plarform (the DF) and only one back (the Credo 50), which again is under specified with respect to H5D-50c which offers additional modulalirity (interchangeable finders), compatibility with film and again, better price.
But in addition, Hasselblad has to offer the X1D (with video), the H5X, the CF-V, the 50MS & 200MS backs, the 50MS & 200MS cameras & the HTS 1.5x adapter... All in all a much more complete system....
One should therefore expect for P1 to react before even more new products and features are announced from Hasselblad that would expand the handicap further...
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I'll be delighted when and if Fuji and others join the Hassy X1D with mirrorless MF offerings. Not because I want one - I very much do not - but because perhaps that will end the incessant "Phase One should release a mirrorless camera" chatter by redirecting those who want such cameras to *actually buying them from those who manufacture them* rather than talking about (again and again and again) why those who don't manufacture them should.
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To my eyes a good EVF based finder for the XF would still have several advantages:
- increase the success ratio when manual focusing (and let's face it, manual focus is currently the only option with the XF as soon as the subjet isn't dead centered/quite distant),
- get rid the of the shake inducing mirror slap
- reduce significantly the noise at release and therefore make the camera much more discrete
- ...
The challenges would be battery life and thermal behavior of the sensor when streaming.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Yes a EVF is cool
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If I could snap on a high quality EVF onto my XF and the firmware was updated to give us the advanteges of an EVF (susch as exposure eval/histo before the shot), I'd order one yesterday!!! :D
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I believe an EVF finder for P1 if it can be done would be fantastic. It really needs to be the same quality as the Leica SL though for me to really get excited.
gage
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I believe an EVF finder for P1 if it can be done would be fantastic. It really needs to be the same quality as the Leica SL though for me to really get excited.
I guess that it could be at least as good as the image shown in live view on the IQ3-100 screen. The limiting factor doesn't appear to be the EVF itself, it is more the ability of the sensor to stream in high enough resolution/high enough frame per sec.
cheers,
Bernard
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I guess that it could be at least as good as the image shown in live view on the IQ3-100 screen. The limiting factor doesn't appear to be the EVF itself, it is more the ability of the sensor to stream in high enough resolution/high enough frame per sec.
cheers,
Bernard
It's able to stream a pretty decent looking image to Capture Pilot relative to what you see on the rear LCD in Live View, at least to my eyes, so I have higher hopes for the EVF quality than merely what you see on the rear screen.
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It's able to stream a pretty decent looking image to Capture Pilot relative to what you see on the rear LCD in Live View, at least to my eyes, so I have higher hopes for the EVF quality than merely what you see on the rear screen.
That's good news!
Cheers,
Bernard
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does anybody belive in new backs - maybe with 60 or 80 cmos sensor?
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Nope, my guess is first Sony will release their own 75mp FF chip in a aX and then next year perhaps their will be a 80-100 cropped and if there is a marked 120-140 MF FF sensor.
It all depends on how well ALL MF companies can move sensors. They certainly agreed to some amount to Sony. Before that is sold not much new stuff is coming.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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Hi,
I would guess that they come in two sizes, 100 MP full frame and 50 MP 1.3X. Developing 60 or 80 MP sensor would mean designing two additional sensors. So, that would mean a very high RD-cost.
It would probably be possible to design a pixel that works better with shifts, but my guess is that Sony's designs are leaning heavily on designs for smaller sensors.
What I perhaps would hope for is a new sensor with phase detecting AF capability.
Best regards
Erik
does anybody belive in new backs - maybe with 60 or 80 cmos sensor?
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but the iq3 backs are quite new , or? just one year - after this "short" period you think p1 will release new backs?
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Erik,
The current 100mp sensor sized to 44x33 is 68mp. Isn't that a (relatively) low-cost development option, or does that sensor not scale down well?
Dave
Hi,
I would guess that they come in two sizes, 100 MP full frame and 50 MP 1.3X. Developing 60 or 80 MP sensor would mean designing two additional sensors. So, that would mean a very high RD-cost.
It would probably be possible to design a pixel that works better with shifts, but my guess is that Sony's designs are leaning heavily on designs for smaller sensors.
What I perhaps would hope for is a new sensor with phase detecting AF capability.
Best regards
Erik
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Hi,
Yes, that would be reasonable from R&D standpoint, I guess. I would guess that a future 44x33 sensor may end up in that region, or a bit higher.
My point was rather that 60MP and 80MP full frame variants were not likely.
Best regards
Erik
Erik,
The current 100mp sensor sized to 44x33 is 68mp. Isn't that a (relatively) low-cost development option, or does that sensor not scale down well?
Dave
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Why not a 48X36 sensor 80+ mp of this chip? With the exception of the X1D all MF cameras and backs could use it. With the plus of being the first CMOS 2FF sensor ever.
Hi,
Yes, that would be reasonable from R&D standpoint, I guess. I would guess that a future 44x33 sensor may end up in that region, or a bit higher.
My point was rather that 60MP and 80MP full frame variants were not likely.
Best regards
Erik
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Why not a 48X36 sensor 80+ mp of this chip? With the exception of the X1D all MF cameras and backs could use it. With the plus of being the first CMOS 2FF sensor ever.
Wouldn't it better to simplify digital MF with only 2 sensor sizes?
Cheers,
Bernard
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but the price range between 50mp and 100mp is huge.
i really want a mf back but actually stick with some problems -
cmos great but the 50mp has a crop factor - the 100mp is to expensive
ccd 80mp are now affordable but have no liveview and low base iso, old technique, price trend ?
therefore i would be happy if we see a 60 and 80 cmos back with a large sensor compared to the actual 50mp
(i shoot with a 5diii - knowing the benefits of liveview , shooting at 400 or 800 iso , and the fullframe "thinking" )
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I think the main point is that a larger chip costs pretty much we same no matter whether it is 60,80 or 100MP.
I think the added development costs for a new chip which in physical site is between the current ones is just way to expensive. In addition I have the feeling that Sony is quite happy with these to sizes and so are the manufacturer.
Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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Wouldn't it better to simplify digital MF with only 2 sensor sizes?
Cheers,
Bernard
I don't think chip prices at this size are significant anymore. It's now about marketing.
Remember that a Phase *body* costs as much as a Pentax MF *camera*
Edmund
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I don't think chip prices at this size are significant anymore. It's now about marketing.
Remember that a Phase *body* costs as much as a Pentax MF *camera*
Yep,,I know. My comment was marketing minded.
Cheers,
Bernard
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My number one wish for Phase is to intro a Schneider Kreuznach 25-50mm to round out the zoom line and get the zooms into real wide angle territory. I'd backup the Brinks Truck for that one :)