Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: feppe on August 22, 2016, 12:37:51 pm
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I'm looking for a camera system to complement my travel and studio gear: Micro Four Thirds and large format film. The main shortcomings of MFT is lack of very shallow DOF for portraits, some limitations when printing big, and it's a bit too dainty and fiddly in the studio, and when shooting in portrait orientation (vertical grip would help though). LF film is very expensive to shoot, process and drum scan, requires more light than many studios have on rent, and doesn't travel well.
Therefore I'm looking for a system to fill these gaps. I sold my Canon gear years ago in favor of MFT, so I'm not invested in any system.
Main requirements:
- Mirrorless a must for compactness, lightness, and ability to use legacy lenses from various manufacturers
- Works well in studio with whatever lighting gear they have available. I never use tethering, and control flashes manually.
- Subject matter mostly glamour, nudes, portraits, some landscapes, cityscapes, low light long exposure photography (night cityscapes), and general travel. Some color, some B&W. I would also shoot artwork (oil and watercolor paintings). I don't do sports, birds, weddings, products, macro, video, or do massive cropping.
- I would mostly shoot with a sharp normal prime lens, and a fast 100-135mm prime lens which has beautiful bokeh.
- The system should preferably have a solid ~24mm prime as well
- Manual focus is ok, and legacy lenses are ok, as long as the system has an accurate way to focus.
- In-body stabilization a plus for more versatility outside the studio, but not a requirement (have that with MFT).
- I'm a serious amateur: I care about robustness and reliability, but don't care about same day service. I don't care about megapixels or bit depth; everything on my short list below has good enough IQ at base ISO (DPReview comparison (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=sony_a7&attr13_1=sony_a7_ii&attr13_2=sony_a7r&attr13_3=fujifilm_xpro2&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=200&attr16_1=200&attr16_2=200&attr16_3=200&attr171_0=off&attr171_2=off&attr171_3=off&normalization=print&widget=1&x=0.327700767556421&y=-0.11167122351332866) for the curious). I sometimes print big, but I don't let my nose touch the print (i.e. no pixelpeeping).
- Budget 2000-4000 EUR/USD
The current shortlist:
- Sony E-Mount (A7, A7R, A7II). There is a good selection of ~50mm primes, but only an 85mm prime for portraits, which is too wide for my tastes.
- Fujifilm X-Mount (X-Pro1 or 2, or Fujifilm X-T1 or 2). Fujifilm has very affordable normal lenses, but the same gaping portrait lens gap as Sony: the Fujinon XF 56mm f/1.2 R is also too wide for facials, and only around f/1.8 in 35mm equivalent DOF, which may not be shallow enough for some cases.
Anything I missed? Haven't looked at Leica as they're way out of my budget.
So it boils down to lenses, usability and features. Neither system seems to have a fast 100-135mm portrait lens, so will need to look at adapters - any suggestions? The Fujifilm cameras have an edge on skin tones, but Sony should be fixable with color target and calibration. Sony knows sensors for sure, but has an even more immature lens selection.
Any tips much appreciated!
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Fuji has a 90mm f2, that gives you the fov of a 135mm on full frame. Rent both if you can and see what menu systems and IQ meet your needs.
Alan
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What bodies have you shot with? The E-M1 and GH4 are both pretty substantial with L-Brackets or grips. I shoot studio work all the time tethered and I love using the E-M1. Its great to have a full screen live view without needing anything special. Very convenient, and excellent look with studio lights. Shallow depth of field is easy if you are willing to spend for it. A metabones speed booster will turn any canon or nikon lens into an autofocus lens. Using an 85 1.4 for example should give you a 120mm .95 or so lens after adapter. Sharper too. Any good 1.4 or F/2 lens should give you some great results. Otherwise the the Leica 42.5 or the Oly 75 are fantastic, and do give shallow depth of field depending how extreme you want it.
Otherwise, between sony and Fuji, I would go Fuji. I like their results for portrait way more than I do for landscapes and other subjects. I cant dig the watercolor effect lightroom produces on landscape scenes with the X-trans. Fuji has the primes nailed pretty well. I don't know how well they tether though. Never used them connected like that. I've used just about all the Fuji bodies up to now save the X-Pro2, and most of the lenses. I potentially would have ended up a Fuji user if they never went Xtrans. For what I do, It just pops up way too often for me. Some people dig it though.
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What bodies have you shot with? The E-M1 and GH4 are both pretty substantial with L-Brackets or grips. I shoot studio work all the time tethered and I love using the E-M1. Its great to have a full screen live view without needing anything special. Very convenient, and excellent look with studio lights. Shallow depth of field is easy if you are willing to spend for it. A metabones speed booster will turn any canon or nikon lens into an autofocus lens. Using an 85 1.4 for example should give you a 120mm .95 or so lens after adapter. Sharper too. Any good 1.4 or F/2 lens should give you some great results. Otherwise the the Leica 42.5 or the Oly 75 are fantastic, and do give shallow depth of field depending how extreme you want it.
I have Olympus EM-5, fastest lens I have is Hexanon 57mm f/1.4 which I love for portraits. I haven't looked at the Speed Booster, it sounded like an April Fool's joke when I heard about it - it actually works? Although it costs as much as a decent prime lens, that and a vertical grip would be much cheaper than another camera system.
One thing I forgot to mention is lack of dual memory card slots in EM-5, and I believe no MFT body has that. I've had a card fail on me, taking with it hundreds of pictures, and I'm sure several portfolio shots. X-T2 has dual slots.
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I haven't looked at the Speed Booster, it sounded like an April Fool's joke when I heard about it - it actually works?
do you believe that teleconverters work ? so why you don't believe in wideconverters then... it is a simple optics
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so will need to look at adapters - any suggestions?
Sony has AF adapters for Canon EF (many = Sigma, Metabones, etc), Nikon F (Commlite), Contax G (Techart), Leica M (and so for any other lenses that have adapters from their mounts to Leica M = a lot), Sony/Minolta A-mount (couple from Sony = LA-EA3 for lenses with motor inside and LA-EA4 for screw-driven) ... Fuji ? Fuji is nowhere near that.
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Surely a Sony A7rII is the way to go. As a 24mm is required there's the 25mm Batis and for the longer stuff just about any 135mm will fit and there's the fe 70-200mm f2.8 if you can bring yourself to consider a zoom.
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Hi,
Regarding 135 lenses there are some interesting ones from Zeiss, Sony and Samyang.
Zeiss has a 135/2.0 APO
Samyang has a 135/20 that is affordable and probably quite execellent
Sony has a 135/2.8 Smooth Transition Focus which has very good bokeh
BUT, all those lenses are MF and the Samyang is probably all manual.
Best regards
Erik
I'm looking for a camera system to complement my travel and studio gear: Micro Four Thirds and large format film. The main shortcomings of MFT is lack of very shallow DOF for portraits, some limitations when printing big, and it's a bit too dainty and fiddly in the studio, and when shooting in portrait orientation (vertical grip would help though). LF film is very expensive to shoot, process and drum scan, requires more light than many studios have on rent, and doesn't travel well.
Therefore I'm looking for a system to fill these gaps. I sold my Canon gear years ago in favor of MFT, so I'm not invested in any system.
Main requirements:
- Mirrorless a must for compactness, lightness, and ability to use legacy lenses from various manufacturers
- Works well in studio with whatever lighting gear they have available. I never use tethering, and control flashes manually.
- Subject matter mostly glamour, nudes, portraits, some landscapes, cityscapes, low light long exposure photography (night cityscapes), and general travel. Some color, some B&W. I would also shoot artwork (oil and watercolor paintings). I don't do sports, birds, weddings, products, macro, video, or do massive cropping.
- I would mostly shoot with a sharp normal prime lens, and a fast 100-135mm prime lens which has beautiful bokeh.
- The system should preferably have a solid ~24mm prime as well
- Manual focus is ok, and legacy lenses are ok, as long as the system has an accurate way to focus.
- In-body stabilization a plus for more versatility outside the studio, but not a requirement (have that with MFT).
- I'm a serious amateur: I care about robustness and reliability, but don't care about same day service. I don't care about megapixels or bit depth; everything on my short list below has good enough IQ at base ISO (DPReview comparison (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=sony_a7&attr13_1=sony_a7_ii&attr13_2=sony_a7r&attr13_3=fujifilm_xpro2&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=200&attr16_1=200&attr16_2=200&attr16_3=200&attr171_0=off&attr171_2=off&attr171_3=off&normalization=print&widget=1&x=0.327700767556421&y=-0.11167122351332866) for the curious). I sometimes print big, but I don't let my nose touch the print (i.e. no pixelpeeping).
- Budget 2000-4000 EUR/USD
The current shortlist:
- Sony E-Mount (A7, A7R, A7II). There is a good selection of ~50mm primes, but only an 85mm prime for portraits, which is too wide for my tastes.
- Fujifilm X-Mount (X-Pro1 or 2, or Fujifilm X-T1 or 2). Fujifilm has very affordable normal lenses, but the same gaping portrait lens gap as Sony: the Fujinon XF 56mm f/1.2 R is also too wide for facials, and only around f/1.8 in 35mm equivalent DOF, which may not be shallow enough for some cases.
Anything I missed? Haven't looked at Leica as they're way out of my budget.
So it boils down to lenses, usability and features. Neither system seems to have a fast 100-135mm portrait lens, so will need to look at adapters - any suggestions? The Fujifilm cameras have an edge on skin tones, but Sony should be fixable with color target and calibration. Sony knows sensors for sure, but has an even more immature lens selection.
Any tips much appreciated!
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If you like Fuji colors their system offers what you want, easily.
The 90 F2 is the best lens on Fuji, does everything right (sharpness, bokeh, autofocus). The 56 F1.2 is a solid lens also. The 16 F1.4 (24mm equiv FOV) has good reviews and good bokeh for that matter.
All are autofocus, fast enough, good FOV control and should get you in your budget (a little stretched if you get the new X-T2).
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Don't think you need A7RII, just A7II, at 24mp is plenty. I dropped Nikon in favor of the sony because I already had full frame lenses and did not enjoy the cropping adjustment when going out in the field-i.e. 50mm is now 75mm etc. That, and it seems that bigger sensor might have some resolution or noise advantages.
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If you like Fuji colors their system offers what you want, easily.
The 90 F2 is the best lens on Fuji, does everything right (sharpness, bokeh, autofocus). The 56 F1.2 is a solid lens also. The 16 F1.4 (24mm equiv FOV) has good reviews and good bokeh for that matter.
All are autofocus, fast enough, good FOV control and should get you in your budget (a little stretched if you get the new X-T2).
Yes, I missed the 90mm f/2 in my initial research. It's not the fastest lens around, but has gorgeous bokeh - I'd just have to do without really shallow DOF.
Dual SD cards is a huge plus with the Fujis.
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If you decide to go the full frame route with adapted lenses, another lens I would recommend is the Voigtlander 125mm f2.5 APO. It is a great macro but also works beautifully as a portrait lens and short tele. The images have a rightness to them that I have only seen in the Otus and super tele, as well as some MF glass.
I replaced my Zeiss 100mm f2.0 and 135mm f2.0 APO and don't regret it.
Some recent images shot with the Voigtlander on the D810:
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8794/28232349603_90171d1989_o.jpg)
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8886/28797534422_91f7ea1c62_o.jpg)
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8820/28871175006_03bf564954_o.jpg)
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'm looking for a camera system to complement my travel and studio gear: Micro Four Thirds and large format film. The main shortcomings of MFT is lack of very shallow DOF for portraits, some limitations when printing big, and it's a bit too dainty and fiddly in the studio, and when shooting in portrait orientation (vertical grip would help though). LF film is very expensive to shoot, process and drum scan, requires more light than many studios have on rent, and doesn't travel well.
Therefore I'm looking for a system to fill these gaps. I sold my Canon gear years ago in favor of MFT, so I'm not invested in any system.
Main requirements:
- Mirrorless a must for compactness, lightness, and ability to use legacy lenses from various manufacturers
- Works well in studio with whatever lighting gear they have available. I never use tethering, and control flashes manually.
- Subject matter mostly glamour, nudes, portraits, some landscapes, cityscapes, low light long exposure photography (night cityscapes), and general travel. Some color, some B&W. I would also shoot artwork (oil and watercolor paintings). I don't do sports, birds, weddings, products, macro, video, or do massive cropping.
- I would mostly shoot with a sharp normal prime lens, and a fast 100-135mm prime lens which has beautiful bokeh.
- The system should preferably have a solid ~24mm prime as well
- Manual focus is ok, and legacy lenses are ok, as long as the system has an accurate way to focus.
- In-body stabilization a plus for more versatility outside the studio, but not a requirement (have that with MFT).
- I'm a serious amateur: I care about robustness and reliability, but don't care about same day service. I don't care about megapixels or bit depth; everything on my short list below has good enough IQ at base ISO (DPReview comparison (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=sony_a7&attr13_1=sony_a7_ii&attr13_2=sony_a7r&attr13_3=fujifilm_xpro2&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=200&attr16_1=200&attr16_2=200&attr16_3=200&attr171_0=off&attr171_2=off&attr171_3=off&normalization=print&widget=1&x=0.327700767556421&y=-0.11167122351332866) for the curious). I sometimes print big, but I don't let my nose touch the print (i.e. no pixelpeeping).
- Budget 2000-4000 EUR/USD
Other than Mirrorless, you described a Nikon D810 w/ the new 105mm f/1.4 or even the older DC lenses.
Sony cameras are wonderful and mirrorless has some advantages for non-action subjects, but I find compactness is not one of them. Everyone has their own personal preferences, but while I can agree that an 1DX or F5 might be too big for some people, I find anything smaller than my D500 or maybe a D7200 almost unusable. And I have small hands.
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Yes, I missed the 90mm f/2 in my initial research. It's not the fastest lens around, but has gorgeous bokeh - I'd just have to do without really shallow DOF.
Dual SD cards is a huge plus with the Fujis.
In my book the FOV of the 90 F2 is shallow enough. If you want more and you don't mind manual focus (with focus peaking or split view) then you have some interesting options using the Metabones Speedbooster adapter; I use it with a Samyang 135 F2 but to keep it under 135 mm equiv you could use something like Nikon 105 (maybe the DC version) or the above mentioned Voigtlander 125.
Keep in mind only the newer Fujis have double SD card, the X-Pro2 and the X-T2.
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Hi,
A full frame mirrorless system tends to be dominated by the size of the lens, unless aperture is reduced.
If only 16 MP (or so) are needed it may be worth considering an APS-C or Micro 4/3 system.
Best regards
Erik
Other than Mirrorless, you described a Nikon D810 w/ the new 105mm f/1.4 or even the older DC lenses.
Sony cameras are wonderful and mirrorless has some advantages for non-action subjects, but I find compactness is not one of them. Everyone has their own personal preferences, but while I can agree that an 1DX or F5 might be too big for some people, I find anything smaller than my D500 or maybe a D7200 almost unusable. And I have small hands.
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Other than Mirrorless, you described a Nikon D810 w/ the new 105mm f/1.4 or even the older DC lenses.
Sony cameras are wonderful and mirrorless has some advantages for non-action subjects, but I find compactness is not one of them. Everyone has their own personal preferences, but while I can agree that an 1DX or F5 might be too big for some people, I find anything smaller than my D500 or maybe a D7200 almost unusable. And I have small hands.
D810 would stretch my budget, especially with that lens. But IQ is quite a bit better than anything on my shortlist, wow! Going down to more affordable D750 the IQ edge disappears, though, as it is on par with the others on the shortlist as far as I'm concerned.
Aside: there's a Canon 5D Mk IV coming out? At 3,700 EUR for body only :o Last time I looked at camera bodies was in the Mk II days, costing €2,500 at launch. Glad I got out of that race. And yet, here I am again...
For me camera's usability is more about the control layout than too small/big size. I shot Canons for years before moving to MFT.
I haven't done bulk and weight comparisons recently, but you're right in that mirrorless doesn't offer much - if any - improvements on size when comparing the same crop factor cameras. Here a size comparison (http://camerasize.com/compact/#679.472,579.512,557.331,ga,t) between Fujifilm X-T2 with 90mm (135mm equivalent), Sony A7II with 90mm (longest Camera Size has), and Nikon D810 with 105mm. Fuji is also lightest at 1,047g, Sony 1,201g, Nikon 1,770g. Pretty striking differences between APS-C and FF. The apertures between the three combos are roughly similar, but the weight and size differential between the Sony and Nikon would be smaller with a native or adapted 105mm lens.
Looking at the comparison I wouldn't want to do travel photography with either of the FF behemoths, so that would limit their use to the studio, keeping my MFT gear for travel and backup. That might be ok, though.
If you decide to go the full frame route with adapted lenses, another lens I would recommend is the Voigtlander 125mm f2.5 APO. It is a great macro but also works beautifully as a portrait lens and short tele. The images have a rightness to them that I have only seen in the Otus and super tele, as well as some MF glass.
I replaced my Zeiss 100mm f2.0 and 135mm f2.0 APO and don't regret it.
Good to see you here, Bernard, still active!
That Voigtlander does look good, and second hand is within reach financially. Seems like it's discontinued, and unfortunately it hasn't appeared once on eBay in the EU in the last months, so would be a long shot to acquire.
In my book the FOV of the 90 F2 is shallow enough. If you want more and you don't mind manual focus (with focus peaking or split view) then you have some interesting options using the Metabones Speedbooster adapter; I use it with a Samyang 135 F2 but to keep it under 135 mm equiv you could use something like Nikon 105 (maybe the DC version) or the above mentioned Voigtlander 125.
Keep in mind only the newer Fujis have double SD card, the X-Pro2 and the X-T2.
Yes, I'd expect f2 (I believe f/3 full frame equivalent) to be sufficient as well. I'm not entirely convinced I'd really need paper-thin DOF, and I have MF film gear for the rare occasion.
Nevertheless, Speed Booster sounds like a workable compromise, but I'd have to rent the Fuji to be able to tell if I can easily and accurately pull focus manually with whatever aids they have. I'm really disappointed with the fiddliness of Olympus OM-D EM-5's aid, which is very difficult to use handheld.
I'm attracted to the X-T2 for the control layout, dual card slots, solid native prime lens selection, and reasonable price. I'll have to confirm how well the control layout works for me by renting, and see if it's any less fiddly to use than my Olympus.
In any case, I think there are rentals ahead, as there are pros and cons to every option!
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Good to see you here, Bernard, still active!
That Voigtlander does look good, and second hand is within reach financially. Seems like it's discontinued, and unfortunately it hasn't appeared once on eBay in the EU in the last months, so would be a long shot to acquire.
Yep, posting a lot less than I used to, but still around. ;)
The Voigtlander 125mm are pretty easy to find in mint condition in Japan since they were a Cosina product (the same company producing the Otus for Zeiss btw). The one below maybe not the best mount, but this store in Tokyo is one of the best (I bought mine from them as well as quite a few high ticket items):
https://www.mapcamera.com/item/3717001736636
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'm attracted to the X-T2 for the control layout, dual card slots, solid native prime lens selection, and reasonable price. I'll have to confirm how well the control layout works for me by renting, and see if it's any less fiddly to use than my Olympus.
The X-T2 is very tempting for me also for the following reasons:
- Excellent set of lenses, in particular the 90mm, 56mm and 16mm,
- Best implementation of EVF manual focus help, with a small zoom screen to the right showing the 100% zoom while keeping the full image view in the left part of the screen,
- Nice UI designed by people who seem to understand photography (which is not something I feel when I use the Sony a7, however excellent they are technically)
However I am not sure it makes sense for me at this point in time to add complexity to my camera line up by adding Fuji on top of my Nikon that have been delivering day in day out. Replacement isn't an option since Fuji doesn't have the lens line up to cover some of things I do with my Nikons and I need FF in terms of resolution and high ISO noise levels.
So, however temping the Fuji is, I'll probably keep it at wet dream level for now. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Don't think you need A7RII, just A7II, at 24mp is plenty.
+1
Anything with an aps-c sensor is not big enough to make a noticeable difference to what you can squeeze out of micro four thirds and A7R is not necessary unless you want to print big or be able to crop. What I find very useful about the A7II apart from the FF sensor is the in-built stabilization and being able to use whatever Canon lenses I want with good results via the Metabones adapter... what more would you want (apart from large format film or a 100MB MFDB that as you already know both come with their own limitations as well as advantages.
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Just going to throw it out there... but have you tried an E-M1? They can be had for super cheap right now...and the mkII is just around the corner. It is honestly a completely different feel from the E-M5 cameras. Working with it and the focusing aids might be a lot easier. In fact, when set up right, the E-M1 outshines any mirrored camera when it comes to portrait works. The IBIS, SOVF mode, 1/320 flash sync, hi-refresh rate mode combined with the quick magnification from the focus ring make hand held portrait work way too enjoyable. I've shot tack sharp eyelashes at 1/60th ambient, no flash, at the equivalent of 300mm. I can barely handhold my Canon 5DmkII at 105mm and get that sharp of an image.
Yes, I am very biased to the E-M1. My current portrait bag consists of two E-M1 bodies and a Hasselblad H1.
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Just going to throw it out there... but have you tried an E-M1? They can be had for super cheap right now...and the mkII is just around the corner. It is honestly a completely different feel from the E-M5 cameras. Working with it and the focusing aids might be a lot easier. In fact, when set up right, the E-M1 outshines any mirrored camera when it comes to portrait works. The IBIS, SOVF mode, 1/320 flash sync, hi-refresh rate mode combined with the quick magnification from the focus ring make hand held portrait work way too enjoyable. I've shot tack sharp eyelashes at 1/60th ambient, no flash, at the equivalent of 300mm. I can barely handhold my Canon 5DmkII at 105mm and get that sharp of an image.
Yes, I am very biased to the E-M1. My current portrait bag consists of two E-M1 bodies and a Hasselblad H1.
I haven't tried the E-M1, but I am reconsidering M43 as a studio tool so I'll do research on it. The control layout looks not as cramped as it is on E-M5, any notes about that?
I'm well set on the lenses: I have nothing short of magical portrait lens in the 57mm Hexanon, and have a Daguerreotype from Lomography arriving soon, and wide range of great primes already in my bag.
Panasonic GX8 seems to have very good manual focus aids, so that would be another option. Looks like Panny finally managed to put stabilization in the body, so that advantage Olympus had is gone.
E-M1 Mk II is rumored to have dual card slots, which would address one of M43's shortcomings, no matter how unlikely it is for a card to fail (has happened to me).
lowep's post earlier does raise a good point: going from M43 to APS-C is not a big difference, and I know it having gone the other direction once. DXO and DPReview's comparisons confirm this from IQ perspective.
Local Calumet has Sony's cameras on rent, so I'll probably test them out to see what benefit FF offers these days on IQ and usability in the real world.
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I haven't tried the E-M1, but I am reconsidering M43 as a studio tool so I'll do research on it. The control layout looks not as cramped as it is on E-M5, any notes about that?
I owned Е-М1 before and ergonomics was good (this is subjective of course) - I'd much prefer to have A7R2 innards in E-M1 body vs A7R2 own body... one the features that I liked is that you can define custom configurations for P, A, S, M and other selections on the mode dial :-)... with A7R2 having only C1 & C2 custom options on the mode dial it feels almost like consumer entry level camera.
but at this moment I'd wait till E-M1 mark II which shall have newer 20mp sensor, unless you have budget constrains... I bet it shall have dual slots and AF selection joystick
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If you aren't fully committed to mirrorless the Pentax K-1 might work for you. Same sensor as Nikon FF, lots of good features, and a lot less money.
The Pentax FA 77/1.8 is a great portrait lens as are the Pentax 85/1.4 or 1.8 but the latter two are harder to find.
I've also recently converted a couple of old Leitz lenses (Summicron 50/2, Elmarit 135/2.8) to K mount and they also do well on this body although it's fully manual with those converted lenses. Tons of nice legacy glass out there too if you like that kind of thing.
Also, regardless of the body, people seem to like the Samyang 85/1.4 which comes in several mounts including Pentax and Nikon.
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If you aren't fully committed to mirrorless the Pentax K-1 might work for you. Same sensor as Nikon FF, lots of good features, and a lot less money.
The Pentax FA 77/1.8 is a great portrait lens as are the Pentax 85/1.4 or 1.8 but the latter two are harder to find.
I've also recently converted a couple of old Leitz lenses (Summicron 50/2, Elmarit 135/2.8) to K mount and they also do well on this body although it's fully manual with those converted lenses. Tons of nice legacy glass out there too if you like that kind of thing.
Also, regardless of the body, people seem to like the Samyang 85/1.4 which comes in several mounts including Pentax and Nikon.
I actually have a lot of interest and fondness for it, and Pentaxes (and Ricohs) in general. I originally poo-pooed it due to it having the what I consider a vestigial mirror, but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.
I have the truly amazing and criminally underrated Ricoh GR, which has the best UI in any digital camera I've used, and I've heard Pentax cameras have similar UIs, being made by the same company and all.
Any good 100-135mm fast portrait lenses out there? I see there's a Samyang 135mm f/2, not familiar with the brand.
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If you already have some m43 glass, you might want to wait and see what the new E-M1 II will bring next month. For the work you mention, the E-M1 can already do quite well. I've been shooting landscapes, portraits and studio product work with it for 2-1/2 years. My clients like the output and I like that I can do a few unique things with it.
Nobody has yet matched the Live Composite mode and there is the automated focus stacking, which turned out to be more useful than I expected. Olympus is doing some great stuff on the firmware front.
I recently picked up a Pen F, which upped the ante a little on resolution and which brings a whole new handling style. I expect it will become my casual travel camera, even after I pick up an E-M1 II. Limited though it is, its hi-res mode produces unmatched color and texture results. No moire. Virtually no noise. At 50mp. Reportedly, the new E-M1 II will add handheld shots to hi-res, which will make it more suitable for field use.
At the least, I think it's worth waiting to see what develops.
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I actually have a lot of interest and fondness for it, and Pentaxes (and Ricohs) in general. I originally poo-pooed it due to it having the what I consider a vestigial mirror, but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.
I have the truly amazing and criminally underrated Ricoh GR, which has the best UI in any digital camera I've used, and I've heard Pentax cameras have similar UIs, being made by the same company and all.
Any good 100-135mm fast portrait lenses out there? I see there's a Samyang 135mm f/2, not familiar with the brand.
I've heard many good things about the GR. It will be interesting to see what the next update to those looks like (assuming there will be one).
Samyang is a Korean (I think) lens company known for low cost but good value lenses. Until recently they were only manual focus but some new AF lenses are being released now too. They are also sold under the brands Rokinon and Bower. I have a couple of Rokinon lenses, a APS-C 8mm fisheye and a FF 14mm UWA and they are both very nice, especially considering the price.
A drawback of Pentax is there are fewer modern lenses available than for Canikon but they seem to be making some headway on that front lately.
There is a Pentax 100/2.8 macro in production that people like but my lenses in that range are all legacy lenses. The Elmarit 135/2.8 and also a Sears 135/2.8 (that may be a re-branded Tokina) fit the bill and the Sears has auto aperture. It's also not as sharp but for $40 on eBay I'm not going to complain. I also have a Pentax 100mm macro, the old manual f/4 version which is very sharp.
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but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.
Intriguing comment... please elaborate
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Intriguing comment... please elaborate
apparently he wants small system and FF lenses once you want bright + matching 50+mp sensels + certain focal range are not small... a legit POV by some people... while some people (like me) value the "mirrorless" part, not the size/weight part = EFCS/no shutter shock + EVF + etc... I do not mind a big camera, for as long as it is still dSLM
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If you already have some m43 glass, you might want to wait and see what the new E-M1 II will bring next month. For the work you mention, the E-M1 can already do quite well. I've been shooting landscapes, portraits and studio product work with it for 2-1/2 years. My clients like the output and I like that I can do a few unique things with it.
Nobody has yet matched the Live Composite mode and there is the automated focus stacking, which turned out to be more useful than I expected. Olympus is doing some great stuff on the firmware front.
I recently picked up a Pen F, which upped the ante a little on resolution and which brings a whole new handling style. I expect it will become my casual travel camera, even after I pick up an E-M1 II. Limited though it is, its hi-res mode produces unmatched color and texture results. No moire. Virtually no noise. At 50mp. Reportedly, the new E-M1 II will add handheld shots to hi-res, which will make it more suitable for field use.
At the least, I think it's worth waiting to see what develops.
Yeah, I'll definitely take a close look at the E-M1.
The live preview is heaven when doing low light photography, hadn't heard of Live Composite until now.
I've heard many good things about the GR. It will be interesting to see what the next update to those looks like (assuming there will be one).
Samyang is a Korean (I think) lens company known for low cost but good value lenses. Until recently they were only manual focus but some new AF lenses are being released now too. They are also sold under the brands Rokinon and Bower. I have a couple of Rokinon lenses, a APS-C 8mm fisheye and a FF 14mm UWA and they are both very nice, especially considering the price.
A drawback of Pentax is there are fewer modern lenses available than for Canikon but they seem to be making some headway on that front lately.
There is a Pentax 100/2.8 macro in production that people like but my lenses in that range are all legacy lenses. The Elmarit 135/2.8 and also a Sears 135/2.8 (that may be a re-branded Tokina) fit the bill and the Sears has auto aperture. It's also not as sharp but for $40 on eBay I'm not going to complain. I also have a Pentax 100mm macro, the old manual f/4 version which is very sharp.
I'm sure there's a third (depending on how you count) version of GR coming out. The latest upgrade about a year ago just added wifi, so I didn't see a need to upgrade my first edition GR.
The 100/2.8 Macro is reasonably priced, and seems like a good portrait lens with pleasing bokeh.
Intriguing comment... please elaborate
I already elaborated in an earlier comment:
[...]mirrorless doesn't offer much - if any - improvements on size when comparing the same crop factor cameras. Here a size comparison (http://camerasize.com/compact/#679.472,579.512,557.331,ga,t) between Fujifilm X-T2 with 90mm (135mm equivalent), Sony A7II with 90mm (longest Camera Size has), and Nikon D810 with 105mm. Fuji is also lightest at 1,047g, Sony 1,201g, Nikon 1,770g. Pretty striking differences between APS-C and FF. The apertures between the three combos are roughly similar, but the weight and size differential between the Sony and Nikon would be smaller with a native or adapted 105mm lens.
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Oh I forgot to mention the three 70-200/2.8 lenses available if you don't mind a zoom. Pentax, Sigma, and Tamron all have one, all pretty well regarded.
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but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.
I suppose it depends on your lens choice but even so an A7 with just about any lens is almost always going to be smaller than a DSLR with an equivalent quality lens unless the Sony lens is a real whopper as the body is so much smaller.
With a smallish prime my A7 is about the same size as my Panasonic G1 and it fits in the same small Lowepro bag as my Panasonic GX7.
I often use film era lenses and my A7 together with three film era primes (24, 28mm f2.8 or 35mm f1.8, 50mm f1.2 and 85mm f1.8/2 or 135mm f2.8 ) fits in a bag that used to be filled by my 5D with just the one lens fitted.
I don't think comparison shots like this tell the whole story.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/alans70/1-Untitled-1_zpsbpdof1jm.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/alans70/media/1-Untitled-1_zpsbpdof1jm.jpg.html)
I think this gives a better picture.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/alans70/2-Untitled-1_zpsuxqhbzea.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/alans70/media/2-Untitled-1_zpsuxqhbzea.jpg.html)
But I think that you have to hold the cameras to see if the difference is significant for you.
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If I had m43 and full frame I wouldn't have gotten the aps-c Fuji. But Fuji was first and I don't see it leaving anytime soon as it has the better lenses and it's quite easy to use, plus great colors without much fiddling.
For the very shallow DOF in the 100-135mm range I don't think there are many options in m43 world. Even in the shorter portrait range they only have the 42.5 F1.2 which seems to be as good or better than the Fuji (for twice the money I think).
If you are willing to give up some DOF (or compromise on the the equiv fov for a 75 F1.8 ) it doesn't make sense to get another system.
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For the very shallow DOF in the 100-135mm range I don't think there are many options in m43 world.
http://metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPEF-M43-BT4 + Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM = 120mm eq FOV (85 * 2 * 0.7) @ 1.8 eq aperture (1.2 + 2 stops - 1 stop) ... with autofocus... but yes, it is an expensive adapter
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[...]mirrorless doesn't offer much - if any - improvements on size when comparing the same crop factor cameras. Here a size comparison between Fujifilm X-T2 with 90mm (135mm equivalent), Sony A7II with 90mm (longest Camera Size has), and Nikon D810 with 105mm. Fuji is also lightest at 1,047g, Sony 1,201g, Nikon 1,770g. Pretty striking differences between APS-C and FF. The apertures between the three combos are roughly similar, but the weight and size differential between the Sony and Nikon would be smaller with a native or adapted 105mm lens.
Uhuh now understood you are only referring to size and not other features of mirrorless cameras