Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Tim Gray on June 16, 2006, 09:40:18 pm
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Don't think this link has been posted before:
http://www.leaf-photography.com/files/Leaf_vs_Phase_2006.pdf (http://www.leaf-photography.com/files/Leaf_vs_Phase_2006.pdf)
warning - 29meg. Quite the comparison - wonder what a Phase One managed test would show...
Edited: June 17, 2006 Ooops, apparently old news...
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I think this is accurate . I have shot both of the 22mp models and I was more impressed with the Aptus and ended up buying one . I actually did way more testing with the Phase but to me it looked like a pumped up 1ds with a littl better color .
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Tim, the link was post before,,just before Michael went to BC
Blas
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I was at a local dealer in Palo Alto that does a lot of West Coast digital back sales. They used to sell Leaf but now based on their t ests and their photo customer comparisons, no longer carry Leaf products. All of their customers have gone with the Phase back. In fact, they showed me a pamphlet with a set of comparison images of Phase/Leaf and the Phase images looked better. I am not sure how they did their tests. I would like to know if the photographer who did the tests for Leaf was compensated for his work.
I still went the Leaf route, but I am just saying there are multiple opinions on this topic and some are probably related to how the test s are conducted. Mark
Don't think this link has been posted before:
http://www.leaf-photography.com/files/Leaf_vs_Phase_2006.pdf (http://www.leaf-photography.com/files/Leaf_vs_Phase_2006.pdf)
warning - 29meg. Quite the comparison - wonder what a Phase One managed test would show...
Edited: June 17, 2006 Ooops, apparently old news...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thank you, Tim.
It helps me because I just joined the forum.
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I was informed that it was Leaf who elected not to distribute to this particular dealer and not the other way around so there may be more behind their opinion than just image testing... Mark
I was at a local dealer in Palo Alto that does a lot of West Coast digital back sales. They used to sell Leaf but now based on their t ests and their photo customer comparisons, no longer carry Leaf products. All of their customers have gone with the Phase back. In fact, they showed me a pamphlet with a set of comparison images of Phase/Leaf and the Phase images looked better. I am not sure how they did their tests. I would like to know if the photographer who did the tests for Leaf was compensated for his work.
I still went the Leaf route, but I am just saying there are multiple opinions on this topic and some are probably related to how the test s are conducted. Mark
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I had a salesman at a dealer tell me they dropped Phase One because of poor customer and dealer suppport. Another person at that dealer told me a year later that Phase One had dropped them! Now I have to think back to how many people I told the lie to based on the first salespersons comment. It may be that the first salesperson was misled by the management to avoid embarrasement. Who knows. I try not to spread the rumors as a result.
-Eric
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I hate spreading rumors as well and had no intention of doing so. That is why I wanted to set the record straight or the best that I know based on what I believe to be true. I remember a number of salespeople telling me about new releases from Canon in advance and I never did anything with those because a local Canon rep admitted to me that they get the information a few days before the public release. It put things in perspective.
I had a salesman at a dealer tell me they dropped Phase One because of poor customer and dealer suppport. Another person at that dealer told me a year later that Phase One had dropped them! Now I have to think back to how many people I told the lie to based on the first salespersons comment. It may be that the first salesperson was misled by the management to avoid embarrasement. Who knows. I try not to spread the rumors as a result.
-Eric
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There is so much to like about the Leaf, but one thing that bothers me is that
Phase One has the forum where you can read about their failures and Leaf
doesn’t. Therefore, the quality/failure reports about Phase One vs. Leaf could
not be objectively justified. I believe that absence of Leaf Forum should always
be addressed among photographers, since all of us are in the same'digital'pool.
With regards to the dealer/distributors stories, one too many.
Regards
Caracalla
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I agreed with Caracalla, we all know what Phase One user say about it on their forum. Do you really knows about the Leaf? other then what the happy one say about it. How about the unhappy one's? Maybe there are none.
I am a happy P45 user, not so happy P25 user.
There is so much to like about the Leaf, but one thing that bothers me is what
Phase One has the forum where you can read about their failures and Leaf
doesn’t. Therefore, the quality/failure reports about Phase One vs. Leaf could
not be objectively justified. I believe that absence of Leaf Forum should always
be addressed among photographers, since all of us are in the same'digital'pool.
With regards to the dealer/distributors stories, one too many.
Regards
Caracalla
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68678\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I asked this question a few weeks ago here on the forum. Yair from Leaf said they will bring it back soon. When is soon? Leaf as an Israeli compnay works on jewish standard time.
(you might have to be jewish to understand that )
I believe that absence of Leaf Forum should always
be addressed among photographers, since all of us are in the same'digital'pool.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68678\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Let me guess Samys Camera?????
ericevans, I had a salesman at a dealer tell me they dropped Phase One because of poor customer and dealer suppport. Another person at that dealer told me a year later that Phase One had dropped them!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68678\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I agreed with Caracalla, we all know what Phase One user say about it on their forum. Do you really knows about the Leaf? other then what the happy one say about it. How about the unhappy one's? Maybe there are none.
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On the other hand, those un-happy users can express themselves here or at Rob's.
I have seen many complaints about the Leaf software, unability to stick to their promises in terms of enhancements for the Aptus 22... but very few complaints about the quality of the files/stability of the backs.
Regards,
Bernard
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Folks,
Hang on for a little longer, our Leaf users forum is currently going through some internal testing and fine tuning and will be launched in a few weeks time.
One note - it will be for Leaf users only, at least at the beginning.
Yair
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I am a happy P45 user, not so happy P25 user.
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Why not so happy with the P25???
Thanks
Andre
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Andre, because I was getting more color cast or lens cast with the P25 and less or none on the P45. I don't like doing extra work. Everything is the same, except the back. This might be happing to me, only.
I am a happy P45 user, not so happy P25 user.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68689\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Why not so happy with the P25???
Thanks
Andre
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[/quote]
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Att: Yair
The Idea of Leaf forum with only customers allowed will lead to
potentially more buyers or …? I don’t think you need technical
assistance to answer that one. Therefore, I would kindly ask that Leaf
at least develops the forum with Customer Membership Only as originally
stated, with the option to allow visitors who will unfortunately be able to
read the threads only to be informed. Now is that too much to ask?
It is only logical, since I could be the end user even if I am not
the customer through renting process. I wouldn’t like to have
doubts that Leaf would underestimate the Rental Equipment
Business, since I could very well be the Company with number of
Leaf models and have limited response to offer.
Provided that the Leaf forum is there for all of us, surely the world will
not be perfect. But as I said before we are all in the same’digital’pool
and therefore all optimistic.
Your effort is kindly valued and appreciated.
Caracalla
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Att: Yair
The Idea of Leaf forum with only customers allowed will lead to
potentially more buyers or …? I don’t think you need technical
assistance to answer that one. Therefore, I would kindly ask that Leaf
at least develops the forum with Customer Membership Only as originally
stated, with the option to allow visitors who will unfortunately be able to
read the threads only to be informed. Now is that too much to ask?
It is only logical, since I could be the end user even if I am not
the customer through renting process. I wouldn’t like to have
doubts that Leaf would underestimate the Rental Equipment
Business, since I could very well be the Company with number of
Leaf models and have limited response to offer.
Provided that the Leaf forum is there for all of us, surely the world will
not be perfect. But as I said before we are all in the same’digital’pool
and therefore all optimistic.
Your effort is kindly valued and appreciated.
Caracalla
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68821\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Point taken, thanks.
I think the current decision to keep it "closed' is for logistical reasons only. This may well change in the future.
But I will forward your request (and I'm sure others) to the relevant people.
Best
Yair
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I asked this question a few weeks ago here on the forum. Yair from Leaf said they will bring it back soon. When is soon? Leaf as an Israeli compnay works on jewish standard time.
(you might have to be jewish to understand that )
Let me guess Samys Camera?????
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68693\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Don't worry John, we have converted Yair to work on British standard time!
Adrian
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What is a Leaf "User"??
I have been using Leaf products for two years. But I wasn't an owner until a few weeks ago. The digital techs, photo assistants, and photographers I know who use Leaf backs, for the most part, rent the equipment. Are they all considered users? The people many photographers rely on to make things run smoothly on set are photo assistants and digital techs, at least in the advertising world. Limiting their access to the forums would be detrimental to the photographers who hire them and who buy the equipment.
-Eric
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Eric I think it's like drugs...you don't have to own it for using it...
The reality is that less than 10% of MFDB users do not own the kit, but still your suggestion is very valid and I've requested our marketing team to take care of it.
Yair
What is a Leaf "User"??
I have been using Leaf products for two years. But I wasn't an owner until a few weeks ago. The digital techs, photo assistants, and photographers I know who use Leaf backs, for the most part, rent the equipment. Are they all considered users? The people many photographers rely on to make things run smoothly on set are photo assistants and digital techs, at least in the advertising world. Limiting their access to the forums would be detrimental to the photographers who hire them and who buy the equipment.
-Eric
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Thanks Yair. Can you make an announcement here when the Leaf Forums go live? Do you need any more beta testers?
-Eric
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The reality is that less than 10% of MFDB users do not own the kit, but still your suggestion is very valid and I've requested our marketing team to take care of it.
Yair
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Yair,
With all due respect I have a very difficult time believing that only 10% of digital back "users" own the back. I work nearly every day as a digital tech and don't own a back. Every day I am renting something from Samys Camera (LA) or DPi (NYC) and know that they have dozens of backs out every day on rental jobs. They are busy enough that you can never get equipment at the last minute.
I would suggest that those backs "owned" by rental houses are used more often than those owned by individual photographers AND each day they likely have a "new user." Maybe you are right but statistics are statistics and that seems pretty strange to me from the world I work within.
Its not that I don't have the capital to invest in a back, but that for my business I have decided not to force any manufacturer or format on my clients. I pride myself in being knowledgeable on all the major backs and 35mm cameras. There is not one camera for every job. I doubt I will buy a back and I find forums to be extremely valueable in troubleshooting software and whatnot. Especially when new versions are released.
I anxiously await a Leaf forum and think Leaf would make a huge mistake leaving people like myself out of the loop. I have numerous suggestions that would make Leaf software better (the main complaint from most people about Leaf) and can offer plenty of troubleshooting advice to other users.
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I purchased a phase one p25 a while ago. I did a lot of research (on the hardware) on both the phase one and leaf backs. I figured that more or less, the phase one and the leaf backs are going to have similar file quality. I never had an isssue with it. I use it weather conditions from very very hot and humid to very, very frigid and use it in all environmental conditions from windy beaches to not windy, sandy conditions. I never ever had a hardware issue with the back. I decided to purchase the phase one over the leaf because of its ease of use during all sorts of weather conditions even during frigid shooting conditions when you have to wear thick gloves and navigate through the back's menus. I also respect phase one's decision to have an open forum where everyone can express an opinion or a problem without hesitation and without censorship. A company that's not afraid to be criticized in public, (and because of their capture one software which is IMHO, the best raw workflow software on the market) has my business.
pixpop