Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: dbell on June 14, 2006, 12:03:43 pm
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I recently took delivery of a box of 13x19 sheets of Innova Fibaprint F-Type that I intend to use on an Epson 2400 (kudos to Jim Doyle at shadesofpaper.com for getting it to me quickly and being completely candid about availability; another vendor that I tried to buy this from was not...).
I know that several folks here have made prints using this paper on Epson K3 printers, and I was wondering what settings worked well.
I have several ICC profiles from various sources to experiment with (I'll also be trying Advanced B&W mode) but I was also wondering what media types (in the driver settings) have worked best. I've seen profiles designed for the Premium Lustre media type and I've also seen posts on another forum indicating good results with the semigloss media type selected (which makes sense to me, given the paper's surface).
Ordinarily, I figure this stuff out for myself through trial and error, but given how expensive this paper is, I'd rather waste as little as possible. If anyone has experiences to share, I'd love to hear them (and I'll happily share my results for anyone who cares to hear them . Thanks in advance,
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Daniel Bell
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If you go to the Inkjetart site & download their profiling package, you can print different versions of the Density Chart to see which media settings work best for you. You used to be able to download the same chart from the Dry Creek site.
The best way to use the density chart (IMO) is to use the paper profile & media settings for all the papers that use PK ink. Then among those that have the deepest black on the stepwedge, pick the one that gives the best shadow-tone separation.
Profiling will take care of other variables, if you begin with media settings that yield a deep black & good shadow separation.
For my printer, I happen to have got the most promising results using the Luster setting. So I printed my profiling targets at that setting.
(Of course when you actually have profiles made, you don't use a paper profile when printing the targets!)
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The best way to use the density chart (IMO) is to use the paper profile & media settings for all the papers that use PK ink. Then among those that have the deepest black on the stepwedge, pick the one that gives the best shadow-tone separation.
Profiling will take care of other variables, if you begin with media settings that yield a deep black & good shadow separation.
For my printer, I happen to have got the most promising results using the Luster setting. So I printed my profiling targets at that setting.
(Of course when you actually have profiles made, you don't use a paper profile when printing the targets!)
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I am not sure what you are doing here. Are you saying you are printing your test targets using a canned profile? Or are you just talking about the paper settings in the print driver?
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Sorry - thought it was clear. I'll try again:
Daniel was asking what media setting to use with the Epson driver & Innova F-Type paper. He wonders whether the Luster or Semi-Gloss media setting in the Epson driver will work best to get started. Those are indeed reasonable choices, but if he wants to see if one is better than the other, he has to print something at a couple of Epson driver settings, to see which yields the richest blacks. He presumably has no custom profile yet & only wants to determine an appropriate media setting, so he can print profiling targets.
The best way to decide which media setting to use is to print the "Density Charts" available on a number of profile-making websites. These are not the same as the targets you print to have profiles made.
When you print the density charts (not the profiling targets!), you can use the canned profile for the media setting in question - for example, Epson's canned Semi-Matte profile with the Semi-Matte media setting, & their Luster profile with the Luster setting - to see which media setting prints out best on the new paper. You print the density charts with different media settings (in D's case, Luster & Semi-Matte) & pick the one that gives deeply saturated blacks on the stepwedge that's part of the density chart, & also goves some shadow separation, but not all the way down to 100% vs. 95% black (the profile that you'll make lataer will refine this). You make sure you're not filling in the +++ marks in the black areas of the density chart.
Using the media setting that you've picked by comparing the density charts, you then print your profile targets - but with no color management.
In my case/for my printer & Innova F, I tried printing density charts with the Luster, Luster 250, & Semi-matte media settings. There wasn't much difference, but I thought the Luster setting gave deep blacks & perhaps betteer shadow separation; so when I printed my profiling trargets I used this setting.
Another instance where you'd proceed this way is in deciding whether ot use the EEM or WCRW Epson driver media settings for matte papers.
Hope I did better this time.
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To me printing the density charts using the canned profiles does not seem like the best approach. The whole idea of the density charts is that you want to give your custom profile the best starting point possible from a standpoint of dmax and linearity (and IMHO the linearity is the more important of the two). If you print using the canned profile, you don't really know if the DMAX/linearity characterisitcs you're seeing are from the media setting or the profile trying to compensate. To me it makes much more sense to print the density charts using exactly the same settings as you will for the profile targets.
What I've found in testing a few other papers (but not the Innova F-Type yet), is that the Premium Luster setting lays down the most ink which is not what you want; linearity in the shadow tones sucks bigtime and the resulting profile will produce a murky mess in the darkest colors (especially if using GMB software which seems to favor saturation over luminosity). The Semigloss setting lays down a bit less ink. But when recently profiling Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl I actually found the the Water Color Radiant White to be the best option because it lays down even less ink which not only gives you better separation between the darkest tones, it also gives you better DMAX (because too much ink will actually hurt DMAX).
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OK - YMMV. Printing the density charts without the corresponsing profile for the media setting produced indistinguishable Lustere & Semi-Maatte results for me - shadow separation at the same (very high) point on the stepwedge. So I used the canned profiles for nearest media types to introduce what seemed like an appropriate difference.
Note that when you shift to WCRW, you also change to MK ink.
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Thanks to all who posted. I understood the intent w/regards to the use of the density charts. Anyway, my experimentation is underway. Absolute DMAX is not my primary goal; good tonal separation is at least as important to what I'm trying to accomplish (which isn't to say that DMAX is unimportant, however...). For the time being, I'm sticking with the PK ink.
The first prints are very promising. I agree with something that was said in another thread about this paper: calling it "F-Type" is probably more marketing than anything else. What it IS is a inkjet paper unlike any I've used before. I'm impressed with the feel of the paper and the sense of depth provided by the deep blacks and moderate surface reflectivity (bear in mind that I've recently been doing a lot of printing on Pictorico Hi-Gloss White Film, the surface of which is like a mirror compared to the Innova paper).
I have a lot of work to do before I feel like I'll have anything really literate to say about this paper. I'll post more when I get there. Thanks again for the input.
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Daniel Bell
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OK - YMMV. Printing the density charts without the corresponsing profile for the media setting produced indistinguishable Lustere & Semi-Maatte results for me - shadow separation at the same (very high) point on the stepwedge. So I used the canned profiles for nearest media types to introduce what seemed like an appropriate difference.
I agree, the linearity is horrible with both of those media settings when used in "ICM - No Color Adjustments" mode, which is why I don't think that's a good setting to use as the starting point for your custom profile. That said measuring the darkest patches with a spectro showed the Luster setting to be slightly worse in my experience. But both are far from optimal IMHO.
Note that when you shift to WCRW, you also change to MK ink.
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Says who? When using PK cartridge you can choose any of the media settings listed and still use PK ink. What I found is that the WCRW media setting (used with PK ink) doesn't lay down as much nearly as much ink in the darkets shadow tones as the Luster/Gloss/Semigloss media settings, and as a result you get a much more linear starting point to build your profile from.