Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Gennaro_27 on July 19, 2016, 07:55:41 am
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Hi,
I'm new on the forum and this is my first post ! So forgive me if I tell something wrong and please be patient.
On my new Epson P800 I noticed sometimes, specially when I use Canson papers (on the baryta photographique doesn't happen), that the edge of the print that first comes out from the printer (the left side) is not sharp as it would be (or as it is for the other side). To help you understand you can see the picture attached.
Thanks in advance for your help !
Gennaro
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This comparison isn't too helpful because the subject matter isn't the same and neither part of the print looks very sharp as presented here. If you were to do one print upside down relative to the other (rotate the image 180 degrees and print it), then one can compare the same subject matter as it comes out opposite ends of the paper. Also, it would help to chose a really sharp photograph just about from edge to edge for analyzing whether there really is a problem.
What paper were you using which displays this problem? How did you load it in the printer (Front Fine Art Feed, or Sheet Feeder)? What Media Type did you select in the printer driver? These factors at least can affect how the printer handles the paper, which could have an impact on the results. The fact that Canson BP doesn't present this issue indicates it may be more a problem of settings and how you are feeding the printer, rather than the printer itself.
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Mark I think he means the jagged line where the ink ends at bottom of the posted picture. I haven't seen such effect on my P800 yet. Maybe some clogged nozzles?
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Mark I think he means the jagged line where the ink ends at bottom of the posted picture. I haven't seen such effect on my P800 yet. Maybe some clogged nozzles?
Ah - different story then. But my questions remain in any case. Can't say what may be the cause from the little information provided. I have not had this issue either. Clogged nozzles wouldn't usually present this way, so should be something else.
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Thanks for the replies.
And yes Rado, I meant the edge line between the print and the paper. Sorry for the picture but I took it with my phone.
In this case the paper was not Canson but Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Book & Album 220 gsm. I set the Media as "Velvet Fine Art Paper", paper thickness to "4" and platen gap to "Standard". I choose front fine art feed.
I try to upload again the pictures for both sides.
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I did right now a Print Head Nozzle Check test and the result is without problem.
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Those settings look OK to me for that paper. You may try "Wide" rather than "Standard", but once you've set the Media Type to VFA which is OK for that paper the printer should handle the platen gap and width automatically for that setting. I don't think this is the problem. It is a rather subtle issue. I'm wondering whether it isn't in what you are sending to print. How does that left side look if you were to magnify it on display? Is it possible that there's a bit of a ragged effect somehow from processing that perhaps you can crop-off before printing?
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Mark I printed the same picture again and this time I also set Thick Paper "ON" and modified the size (bigger now) of the print itself.
But again these marks are appearing in the exact same way and same position as before.
Observing carefully the image up to 100% in my display seems ok !
I have to try to crop the image to see what happens as you suggest.
Cheers
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I cropped the image and print it again using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 (unfortunately I don't have more Hahnemuhle Book & Album sheet) and paper thickness "5", platen gap "wide". The result came with the same imperfections as the other two attempts.
Then I examined all the prints I have done until now and I can say that the same problem is present for the color prints on matte papers.
The color glossy and the b&w, both on glossy and matte papers, are ok !
What happens ?
Very strange situation !
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It is beginning to have the feel of a printer issue; perhaps you should call Epson ProGraphics tech support and discuss it with them.
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Gennaro,
What OS are you printing with, and from what application?
Can you change the application, for example if you've been printing from Lightroom can you try from Photoshop? The reason I ask is that it looks a little like some kind of masking along the edge to me and I wonder if it's from a bad template in your printing application.
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Thanks again Mark and Mike for the suggestions.
I don't have Lightroom to try printing with another software. My Os is Mac OS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).
I already sent an email to technical support. I'm waiting for the answer !
I'll let you know what happens !
Bye
G.
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Well, tech support from Epson told me to perform 2/3 head cleaning cycles. I don't think it could solve the problem but I'll try !
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And also, if the problem is in the head printer why the nozzle check test is ok ?
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And also, if the problem is in the head printer why the nozzle check test is ok ?
That's the key point and why I was surprised by the advice you got from Epson. Normally they tell people if the nozzle check is clean, there is no issue with air or clogs. The fact you are having this problem with certain matte papers but not luster paper suggests to me an ink lay down issue that shows up more for matte than for luster because of the different absorption characteristics between the two. Which leads me to ask an elementary question: are you sure you are printing with Matte Black when using that matte paper?
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Yes Mark, I selected the right matte black ink option when printing !
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I've seen where the herringbone nozzle check was fine but the auto checkerboard nozzle check wasn't.
Also, my hunch is that 'run a few nozzle checks' is the printer support line equivalent of 'reboot your PC one or more times' to get you off the phone or at least passed off to a different tech.
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I did the print head cleaning two times and print a couple of images but the problem is still there !
Now I'm waiting some answer from Epson ...
Bye
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definitely not a nozzle problem. It could be a printer issue, but a couple of other thoughts.
It could be from something in your paper setup. You may want to post screen shots of your dialog boxes, including custom paper size if you are wanting one.
Additionally OS X 10.6 (snow leopard) is very old, and had plenty of issues with printing that have long since been resolved. I’m not sure anyone including epson or adobe supports 10.6 at all any more, and guessing they haven’t for some time. It’s a long shot, but you may want to consider updating your OS.
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Thanks for the replies.
And yes Rado, I meant the edge line between the print and the paper. Sorry for the picture but I took it with my phone.
In this case the paper was not Canson but Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Book & Album 220 gsm. I set the Media as "Velvet Fine Art Paper", paper thickness to "4" and platen gap to "Standard". I choose front fine art feed.
I try to upload again the pictures for both sides.
Gennaro, it looks to me like ink bleed. I note that the edges which extend out in this irregular fashion correspond to darker areas of the print. I get this with my Canon printer, which puts down a lot of ink, on matt papers – but it does this ‘uniformly’ around all edges of the print.
I'm sorry, but at the moment, I do not have a suggestion to offer as to how you might resolve this. However, a test would be to make an image of stepped white to black patches and then try printing them on different papers to see whether it is ink bleeding or not.
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I've seen where the herringbone nozzle check was fine but the auto checkerboard nozzle check wasn't.
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Are you talking about a SuerColor P800? How does one access "the auto checkerboard nozzle check" in a SureCOlor-P800? Such a thing exists for the R800, but haven't seen it either on my SCP800 or in the manual.
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Well, I want to update about my situation. About 10 days ago I received a couple of local technicians sent by "Epson Italia".
Despite their professionality they didn't ever saw a Epson P800. Ok, I helped to try to figure out what's the problem but nothing.
We printed a couple of pictures and after that they sent also a couple of files (of my images) already prepared for the print in order to see if maybe the problem was my postproduction. Anyway I don't think this is the case.
Then they said that in a week someone (the "technicians") from the head office of Epson Italia will call you. I wrote after waiting a week and they said: "Right now we are working on your case (I suppose they were playing with my images)".
I don't think they can solve the problem in this way, working away of my printer. I'm disappointed about the assistance received. When I communicated via e-mail with the support I explained well the situation and also sent the pictures of the problem. When the first technicians came to my home they again repeated the tests made by myself 2 days before and they were like not prepared to deal with my issue.
I hope that they can solve the problem as soon as possible ...
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After almost one month nothing !
What a disappointment ! 20 days ago they said that the problem was in my files and that they are working to understand why.
Today I called tech support and they said that they are waiting a response from Epson Europa. I guess that if the same would happen in USA at least someone would have had the foresight to inform you on the development of the situation without having to always be the one to call to get a half an answer.
What can I do ?
How long should I wait before submitting an official complaint ?
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I guess that if the same would happen in USA at least someone would have had the foresight to inform you on the development of the situation without having to always be the one to call to get a half an answer.
Not really. Usual tech support practice (in general, not Epson alone) is that they should have given you a case number. The next time you would hear from them is when they have something to tell you. If you need to make inquiries in the interval, for most of tech support I've dealt with the customer typically needs to call back with the case number and ask for an update. I think you should call them back, ask them what they have done to resolve your case, and if you are not satisfied with the answer ask for the escalation route to reach a higher level of support.
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I understand Mark what you are saying but my experience with tech support is awful !
The last e-mails that I sent did not received no answer. Then, every 12 days (more or less) I make a phone call with my case number to ask for an update and the guy at the phone every time tell me the same story: "Sorry, but there is no available the technician responsible for your case. I apologize for that and I call you back on next monday to inform you about the situation". Then when monday arrives no one call me back, therefore I call by myself just to hear from the same guy that the technician is working to solve my issue ! But never told me what is (more or less) the real issue !!
I'm starting to think that if they are waiting all this days (and already almost 2 months) maybe they know nothing about how to solve the problem and, in the meantime, the time is flowing.
I will wait another week. After that I'll ask for the escalation route to reach a higher level of support as Mark suggests. I hope to see a way out.
Cheers
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So this only happens on some papers.
You need to tell us specifically which papers it happens with, how you are loading them, and your printer driver settings. Then we can probably help you. That it doesn't happen all the time or on all media tells me it's media, settings, or paper path related.
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I want to give the last update on my issue.
At the end, Epson gave me another printer.
They don't know how to solve the problem and the technicians are still working ! For some combinations of papers and media settings it seems that the problem is still present (specially in the A4 sheets) in my new P800 but not so severe like for the other machine.
Also, during this time of experimentation, I saw the appearance of the "famous" pizza wheel marks on luster and glossy papers where the ink load is heavier and darker. However I noticed the problem only when the sheets are enlighted with a torch and under direct sun light, at a very small angle of incidence.
Epson (in Italy) told me that this problem is "there" (almost impossible to avoid) and only if the marks are visible under normal lighting then the printer is not working properly.
I want to thank all the people here for the help received.
G.
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Also, during this time of experimentation, I saw the appearance of the "famous" pizza wheel marks on luster and glossy papers where the ink load is heavier and darker. However I noticed the problem only when the sheets are enlighted with a torch and under direct sun light, at a very small angle of incidence.
Epson (in Italy) told me that this problem is "there" (almost impossible to avoid) and only if the marks are visible under normal lighting then the printer is not working properly.
G.
I'm glad you put "famous" in "", because there is nothing famous to talk about. In a normally functioning P800 printer there should and there are NOT such pizza wheel marks. I have examined for this condition from my P800 using a powerful light under a strong enough magnifier to see all details at any angle and these marks simply don't exist.
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Mark this is what I see.
I'm not alone (also in this forum) to notice these imperfections, that yes, maybe are difficult to see but there are ! Even Epson tech support told me about the existence of these unfamous marks !
Now, I tried many combinations for the platen gap, paper thickness, paper feed adjustment, drying time and color density but nothing.
If my machine is not "a normally functioning P800 printer", frankly I don't think that if I call back tech support they want to talk with me about it !
Anyway, I'm printing with my new P800 right now and trying also bigger sheet (until A2) to see what happens. The curios thing is that maybe the issue only arise with the Canson papers (?). Maybe is worthy to try Hanemuhle Baryta and/or Espon Baryta and for sure I will !
"under a strong enough magnifier"
It's enough a strong light to see it !
Best regards
G.
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"Even Epson tech support" doesn't impress me; some know or tell better than others. Nor am I impressed with other reports on the internet, which is often heavily biased toward complaints that are often a small sample of the total number of printers in use. I'm not denying these posters are seeing what they are seeing; but we have no idea how representative that sample of complaints is. There are likely some defective printers out there - it doesn't mean the problem is generic to the model.
All I can report on with any reliability is my own evidence, and I have seen no such pizza wheel marks on any of my P800 prints viewed in any which way, and this from three separate units I've tested at various times since the model first appeared on the market.
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Yes Mark, I fully understand your position. I'm not saying you are blind, just that I'm not so lucky ! And trust me, Epson tech support doesn't impress me either !
Ciao
G.
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If someone is interested to see these pizza wheel marks:
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Yes Mark, I fully understand your position. I'm not saying you are blind, just that I'm not so lucky ! And trust me, Epson tech support doesn't impress me either !
Ciao
G.
For clarity, it isn't that Epson tech support doesn't impress me - on the whole it does. On the whole my experience is that they are very good - at least here in North America. What didn't impress me is the statement you mentioned hearing from that particular individual, because it isn't determinative.
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:) Sorry I misunderstood, sometimes happens when english is not your mother tongue.
Anyway Epson support here in Italy (and even in France) is not so brilliant, at least in my own experience.
"What didn't impress me is the statement you mentioned hearing from that particular individual, because it isn't determinative."
I repeat, the technician gave me this answer when I told him about pizza wheel marks. I'm just telling what I experienced and no more than that. I don't have anything against Epson tech support, I'm just angry because my printer, properly setted (I hope), doesn't display the best quality I dreamed.
Bye
G.
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Yes, I understand that, and hope things work out better for you going forward.