Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Josh-H on July 18, 2016, 08:21:09 pm
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Adobe has broken the accuracy of the printing workflow in both the latest versions of Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC for Mac OSX. Evidence of this began to surface on June 26th in the Adobe Forum with a complaint about wrong colours printing from the current version of Lightroom. On the same day, the issue was confirmed for both Epson and Canon printers
If you print with Canon printers from Photoshop CC and you use the Canon 16 bit plug in then this is non-issue as you bypass the Adobe problem. More than just a work around though..my own testing shows the Canon 16 bit plug in is superior in color fidelity to the OEM print driver in both Photoshop and Lightroom (before the recent updates that broke printing accuracy). Colours are cleaner and less 'muddy'. If you haven't tried the Canon 16 bit plug in.. give it a go. I think you will be surprised at the results.
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And, thank you for Adobe to being responsive to this issue and responding to the issue in a timely manner.
Sorry, but this sentence is absurd. Adobe was the opposite of responsive to this, as the body of the article plainly indicates. It took a LuLa to make them pay any attention at all. They did not respond in a timely manner; they did not respond at all for weeks. This is all too typical of Adobe, and they shouldn't get a pass from LuLa or anyone else when they do it.
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If you print with Canon printers from Photoshop CC and you use the Canon 16 bit plug in then this is non-issue as you bypass the Adobe problem. More than just a work around though..my own testing shows the Canon 16 bit plug in is superior in color fidelity to the OEM print driver in both Photoshop and Lightroom (before the recent updates that broke printing accuracy). Colours are cleaner and less 'muddy'. If you haven't tried the Canon 16 bit plug in.. give it a go. I think you will be surprised at the results.
Hi Josh,
That's interesting that there is such a difference in output quality. I assume that is on a Mac OS based setup. AFAIK on Windows systems, less of the printing pipeline is left for the OS to handle, so the printer driver does more itself.
Cheers,
Bart
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Nice work by Mark S... sad that it should take such a public crowbar effort to get a serious response from Adobe.
I suspect they might have been put in an awkward spot themselves by Apple's aggressive anti-compatibility attitude. Maybe someone at Apple forgot that there is not yet an i-printer (unless you count Blurb).
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Hi Josh,
That's interesting that there is such a difference in output quality. I assume that is on a Mac OS based setup. AFAIK on Windows systems, less of the printing pipeline is left for the OS to handle, so the printer driver does more itself.
Cheers,
Bart
Bart, yes you are correct this is with Mac OSX. May not be an issue with Windows.. I don't play on that side of the fence any more ;D
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Not using Apple products either and I print from Qimage Ultimate so no issues here. But on Monday I visited a friend, pro photographer, and he was struggling with the color of his art reproductions on Hahnemühle, could not get the blues right where prints before were correct. I had skipped the LuLa thread in the colour management forum but mentioned it to him. He solved it by going back to pre-CC PS and LR versions, still installed. Meanwhile there was time, ink and paper lost as his desk showed. Wonder how many gallons of ink , square feet of paper, time and customer goodwill is wasted worldwide. To postpone an upgrade to August and no real Adobe information/support for a temporary solution for the time being is absurd. In my opinion enough reasons for a class action. That will not help EU customers as usual but gives a signal.
This is the only reference I could find in NL but it does not reveal the true bug or a correct solution;
https://helpx.adobe.com/nl/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html
If it actually describes the same issue. Otherwise nothing is mentioned of existing print problems.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Ernst, your mention of Qimage reminded me that, a few years ago, Mike Chaney made a serious effort to convert Qimage to Mac.
While I don't remember, or know, the exact reasons for his giving up., I believe it was. The very difficult technical issues with interfacing with the Mac OS and the lack of support and information from Apple.
Trying not to be an Adobe apologist, I would guess the reason for these printing problems may not totally with them.
Of course, proper testing, by definition, would have caught it. However, it is easy to get caught in the error of, "We didn't change anything in that code, so of course it will work.". That's why I had others manage the test bucket....not a marketing, quasi-engineer such as I. 😀
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Ernst, your mention of Qimage reminded me that, a few years ago, Mike Chaney made a serious effort to convert Qimage to Mac.
While I don't remember, or know, the exact reasons for his giving up., I believe it was. The very difficult technical issues with interfacing with the Mac OS and the lack of support and information from Apple.
Trying not to be an Adobe apologist, I would guess the reason for these printing problems may not totally with them.
Of course, proper testing, by definition, would have caught it. However, it is easy to get caught in the error of, "We didn't change anything in that code, so of course it will work.". That's why I had others manage the test bucket....not a marketing, quasi-engineer such as I. 😀
John (from jrsforums....don't know how that email address got captured....?? I did, yesterday, restore my iPad....see, ya gotta check EVERYTHING
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This URL should be removed ASAP IMHO:
https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html (https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html)
It isn't a print driver (the 3880 or otherwise). It's just completely unnecessary and wrong.
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This URL should be removed ASAP IMHO:
https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html (https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html)
It isn't a print driver (the 3880 or otherwise). It's just completely unnecessary and wrong.
Hi Andrew I couldn't agree more. Why, when the problem is of their own doing and causing such frustration (and cost of time, materials and confidence in the soft and hard tools of printing) are Adobe continuing to add to the confusion for their product subscribers? It speaks of gross contempt by Adobe IMO, (let alone of their incompetence, integrity etc).
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Well done Mark, and fair play to Adobe for owning it and dealing.
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adobe released a LR update that should fix this issue.
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Sorry, but this sentence is absurd. Adobe was the opposite of responsive to this, as the body of the article plainly indicates. It took a LuLa to make them pay any attention at all. They did not respond in a timely manner; they did not respond at all for weeks. This is all too typical of Adobe, and they shouldn't get a pass from LuLa or anyone else when they do it.
ok 2 weeks. actually that is pretty fast for adobe.
but overall, as sad as it is, i have to agree.
it needs a big website and possible bad PR to make adobe react fast.
there are plenty of issues on the adobe forum that come up for years.
adobe just ignores them.
i guess if it does not affect at least 50% of the customers it´s not important. :(
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it needs a big website and possible bad PR to make adobe react fast.
Or people who know how to get things done quickly...
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Or people who know how to get things done quickly...
That surely helps to solve the issue, but it seems (from the user perspective) there was a very slow acceptance/ownership of the issue, initial laying blame with others (Epson), non-effective solutions (driver updates), and finally a solution for what seems to be an Adobe bug.
It simply is a bad experience which dragged on for too long, especially bad for those who had/have to reprint for customers, potentially taking a hit in reputation, and without financial compensation.
Cheers,
Bart
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initial laying blame with others (Epson), non-effective solutions (driver updates)
If only "initial"...
That... err, misleading page that Andrew linked (https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html) is still there.
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If only "initial"...
That... err, misleading page that Andrew linked (https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html (https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html)) is still there.
But updated a bit. What's ironic is before that page in it's original form was uploaded, I got into an email with group of Adobe folks. They asked everyone "how does this look?" before posting. I gave them my three cents. I told them not to mention Epson specifically since non Epson users were having issues. I told them the 'fix' they suggested with updating the driver didn't work for me. I asked IF they tested this fix (I was told yes, they did).
The bit about the 3880 is nonsense and I still think the bit about Apple's API is too but I'm no engineer. The page could have simply suggested users roll back one version (and HOW, something I also suggested they write up). The page could have simply stated that Adobe was looking into the issue rather than place blame on others. Thankfully LR was fixed super fast! PS should be out 'soon' and it's logical such a larger package will take more time to release. But a lot of this should have never happened. Water under the bridge. Let's see how Adobe reacts next time this shows up (and it will).
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I just updated Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC (2015.5). Would the color bug be fixed in LR (based on previous post) and still pending for an August release for PS CC? I want to confirm before i use up my sample pack of Legacy on test prints.
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I just updated Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC (2015.5). Would the color bug be fixed in LR (based on previous post) and still pending for an August release for PS CC? I want to confirm before i use up my sample pack of Legacy on test prints.
Fixed in LR if you load 2015.6.1. Not yet released in Photoshop.
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Fixed in LR if you load 2015.6.1. Not yet released in Photoshop.
Does this apply to the boxed version also?
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Does this apply to the boxed version also?
The current downloadable CC subscription versions of LR and PS are fixed; however, I was given to understand today that the non-subscription (permanent license) version of LR is not yet released with the fix.
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The current downloadable CC subscription versions of LR and PS are fixed; however, I was given to understand today that the non-subscription (permanent license) version of LR is not yet released with the fix.
Thanks Mark, I re-calibrated with i1Pro (new purchase) after I calibrated with the Spyder 4 pro thinking it would help, slight improvement in monitor colors but printing was the same. I have an older photo printed that I re-printed with out changing anything and the color is off. Hopefully Adobe will get this problem fixed soon.
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Larry, the problem IS fixed - it's just that as far as I was informed yesterday, the "fix" is not yet bundled into the non-subscription version.
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Larry, the problem IS fixed - it's just that as far as I was informed yesterday, the "fix" is not yet bundled into the non-subscription version.
Larry, the problem IS fixed - it's just that as far as I was informed yesterday, the "fix" is not yet bundled into the non-subscription version.
Have any idea when they will have updates for boxed non-subscription version?
I downloaded Adobe file to, Try printing out this color reference image:
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip
Colors are off some going through LR. I printed the same file without going through LR and the color is about as good as I have seen. Reds, greens, blues are just more vivid.
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Have any idea when they will have updates for boxed non-subscription version?
No.
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I have another issue where a basic functionality is (at least partly) broken in Photoshop, and Adobe choses not to react or worse yet, simply deny and reject it:
on Mac Retina displays, 100% view is not fully sharp if GPU support is switched on - which is the default - and both image dimensions are odd numbers (like e.g. 4001 x 4001).
The slightly blurry rendering makes assessing critical sharpening impossible, and the only way around is to resize the image to even dimensions.
This might seem an exotic case at first, but if you crop a square image, chances are 50% that you run into it. I have reported the problem to Adobe, but only received the following reply from Chris Cox:
"At 100%, one document pixel is one screen pixel.
At 200%, one document pixel is 4 screen pixels (the way many browsers display images).
You could be seeing a video card driver problem. "
Since I have tested and seen it both on my iMac 5k and on my wife's Macbook Pro, with OS X 10.10 and 10.11. (and different video cards - AMD M9 R290 vs. Intel Iris 5100), the problem is almost for sure within Photoshop.
And even if it were not, Adobe should be highly interested to investigate it - but no further reaction to my subsequent inquiries ... simply disappointing.
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When you reported the problem to Adobe, did you also tell them you experienced the same thing on different computers using different OS versions, different displays and different graphics cards?
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Yes I did, but there was no reaction whatsoever. I feel like I am blacklisted in their feedback forum.
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As long as the Forum allows you to post, you are not "blacklisted". Whether they pay any attention is another matter. Even though it is natural behaviour for the first response to be defensive, proposing other causes they aren't responsible for, there could at the same time be a delayed real reaction while they investigate the problem, so don't give up hope. If within several days there is still no response, I suggest escalating it beyond the Forum to a higher tier of customer support.
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As long as the Forum allows you to post, you are not "blacklisted". Whether they pay any attention is another matter. Even though it is natural behaviour for the first response to be defensive, proposing other causes they aren't responsible for, there could at the same time be a delayed real reaction while they investigate the problem, so don't give up hope. If within several days there is still no response, I suggest escalating it beyond the Forum to a higher tier of customer support.
Well, I reported the issue first about May this year, and after discovering its connection to GPU on/off settings once again in June.
Posted it again three weeks ago, this time with my finding regarding image dimensions.
Still no reaction at all. Although I feel like I did halfway the debugging for them already.
Is there a higher tier of customer support? I could only find feedback.photoshop.com ...
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I believe (though not sure because haven't needed it for a long time) you can phone Adobe and ask for escalated support.