Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: Paul2660 on July 07, 2016, 08:19:22 am
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Today was the official day for the anno of the X-T2, (well it's been one of the most pronounced cameras ever from Fuji).
Looking good, especially the new grip, came in 100.00 under the X-pro2. Will more than likely go ahead and let my X-Pro2 go and get in line for the X-T2.
What are others thoughts?
For me, the large battery capacity, and body style are a must, along with the ability to move the screen. I will miss the play button being on the right however.
Paul C
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There's an unusually extensive first impressions review up on DPReview:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-t2-first-impressions-review
Looks very good on paper (or screen)
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I agree, Hope that Phase One can get a camera before December!! as the LR conversions I expect will still be the same as always, i.e. way to plastic looking for finer details.
Paul C
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I think it will be a good addition to a nice system. I tried Fuji X for a while, but since the Sony A7 system matured enough for me, it was a no brainer to go with the latter, rather than the former.
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A lot of the specs were leaked in advance, but what I find most striking about the announced product is the many small ergonomic tweaks to the design of the body—most of them apparently inspired by comments from customers—which should improve handling.
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I'll get one. I have a couple of X Pro 2 bodies and I'm still using my X-T1's for long lenses and zooms. I'd like to have all my cameras have the same sensor and output, and the handling upgrades are worth it. The battery grip looks especially useful.
The X Pro 2 fixed every problem that I had with the Fuji system (not that I had many), and the X-T2 will be a nice addition.
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My only complaint about my current X-T1 bodies is the AF tracking ability. I'm surprised to hear the emphasis placed on AF performance in the X-T2. If it lives up to 1/2 of the hype, it will make Fuji at least usable for focus tracking moving subjects.
I'm also impressed with all the additional small refinements to an already stellar camera. I'll be ordering one w/ the battery grip.
Last, as one who originally bought into the 4/3 system, which Olympus abandoned in favor of m4/3, and then Sony FF w/ a couple of a900s and tons of expensive Sony/Zeiss A mount glass - subsequently abandoned by Sony, I'm feeling pretty good about Fuji's commitment to an APSC system with stellar optics. My considerable investment in Fuji glass looks like it won't end up as "ten cents on the dollar" door stops as Olympus and Sony proved to be. (End of semi-rant!)
Rand
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I really like what Fuji is doing with their X cameras & lenses. If I were starting from scratch today an X-T2 or the (presumably) upcoming X-En variant would be high on my list of stuff to try out.
-Dave-
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The X-T2 ticks all the boxes for me and will eventually relegate my X-T1 to backup status. Since so much was leaked before the announcement the only real surprise for me was the new AF-C options. As someone who has shot a lot of sports with my Canons I'm thinking this may be the end of the line for all my Canon gear. If the AF-C works as well as some say I will have a lot of Canon gear on the block.
I originally bought the X-T1 rather than lug my Canon gear with me on walkabouts. I was so pleasantly surprised by the IQ and the old style controls that I rarely pick up my Canon stuff these days. I've been shooting almost exclusively with the X-T1 for the last year and love the handling and lighter bag.
Since DXO doesn't handle the Fuji sensor you might be interested in this report on the X-T2 dynamic range.
http://petapixel.com/2016/07/07/fuji-x-t2-raw-files-crazy-dynamic-range/
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Impressive review. Thanks.
One feature from the X-pro2 I hope is carried over is the shutter. I am still impressed with the X-pro 2 shutter in both speed and low noise. The way the X-pro 2 handle bracketing is also a vast improvement and again I assume the X-T2 will get this also.
Early reviews have already commented that the the X-t2 has the same designed 4 way menu buttons with the much better physical feedback when pressed.
Paul C
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My considerable investment in Fuji glass looks like it won't end up as "ten cents on the dollar" door stops as Olympus and Sony proved to be. (End of semi-rant!)
I can see your point and I'm lucky in that I've never bought into a system that ended or stagnated apart from film but... I hope that your Olympus and Sony gear didn't actually stop working when MFT and the A7 series appeared.
Good luck to Fuji and I do like the idea of the manual dials but for me it's a piggy in the middle system lacking the savings in bulk and weight offered by MFT and not quite matching the A7 series system for image quality whilst being about the same size wise.
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Since DXO doesn't handle the Fuji sensor you might be interested in this report on the X-T2 dynamic range.
http://petapixel.com/2016/07/07/fuji-x-t2-raw-files-crazy-dynamic-range/
as it is still the "same" (excluding CFA and whatever firmware controls) sensor as in Sony A6300 is shall be around that + http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm gives test data @ __NOMINAL__ ISO (not SSat ISO as DxOMark) ... X-Pro2 is already there, shall be the same as X-T2
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I hope that your Olympus and Sony gear didn't actually stop working when MFT and the A7 series appeared.
In one sense they did. A camera body is a nominal investment compared to a good collection of top notch lenses. Without clunky adapters, neither my pro quality Olympus lenses, nor the Sony/Zeiss A mount lenses would work. Support for repair work (especially with the Sony) all but vanished. Development of and support for 3rd party accessories stopped dead. Did they still make photos? Sure. Did the abandonment of both systems allow my over $20,000.00 investment in professional level lenses take advantage of significant advances in sensor and other technology? Absolutely not. Put it this way, if you had invested a similar amount in Canon or Nikon premium lenses for their FF cameras, and then the company abandoned that lens mount completely, would you be content to go on using a three or four generations old body and feel great about it? I think not. To have this happen once, was unpleasant (Olympus), to have it happen again within a couple of years (Sony) really was a discouragement (that's polite).
I know it isn't rational, but I will never buy another Sony or Olympus camera, ever.
Sorry for the thread digression, but your comment really chapped my hide. Not many admit it "out loud" but at least a part of the profession of photography (and certainly the avocation/hobby) is the satisfaction of "chasing the technology" and seeing large leaps (and incremental increases) in image quality as well as the addition of features and technology that expand what is possible to accomplish photographically.
Rand
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This is really annoying... I was hoping not to like the camera, but it seems about perfect...
Together with lenses such as the 56mm f1.2 it will probably result in pretty much the nicest portrait images short of a H6D100c with the 100mm f2.2...
Cheers,
Bernard
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Did the abandonment of both systems allow my over $20,000.00 investment in professional level lenses take advantage of significant advances in sensor and other technology?
over $20K ? sounds like you have the likes of Zuiko 90-250mm f2.8 + Zuiko 300mm f2.8 + Zuiko 150mm f2.0 + couple of Zuiko f2.0 zooms no less ... that hurts
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I am in the queue, I have not upgraded in quite some time and will still keep my XT-1 but the specs and the reviews I have been reading so far make it quite an interesting upgrade. A lot to like with it. And I certainly do hope Capture One allocates the time, but it will still be a useful camera regardless. A lot to like from Fuji especially their attention to supporting older models, and the lenses are certainly top notch.
Alan
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as it is still the "same" (excluding CFA and whatever firmware controls) sensor as in Sony A6300 is shall be around that + http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm gives test data @ __NOMINAL__ ISO (not SSat ISO as DxOMark) ... X-Pro2 is already there, shall be the same as X-T2
Very interesting chart! Thanks for sharing!
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Very interesting chart! Thanks for sharing!
+1
Even more interesting stuff is available from the home page:
http://photonstophotos.net/index.htm
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Very interesting chart! Thanks for sharing!
the author, Bill Claff, is a well known (to sensor measurebators) persona ( he is registered here @ LuLa, but more active @ DPReview )
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I liked my X-T1 a lot, all except the terrible ergonomics of the top dials. I was always inadvertently setting something else like drive mode when I just wanted to change the ISO. The stacked dials with the top ones locked were so much of a problem that I sold it and kept only my X100T as far as Fuji goes. I see in the DPReview article that the ISO and shutter speed dials can now be kept unlocked, so this should solve my problem. Way to go, Fuji!
Dick
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Bernard - you make a good point. It may be that by the end of Photokina we will have several new good cameras from which to choose.
This is really annoying... I was hoping not to like the camera, but it seems about perfect...
Together with lenses such as the 56mm f1.2 it will probably result in pretty much the nicest portrait images short of a H6D100c with the 100mm f2.2...
Cheers,
Bernard
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over $20K ? sounds like you have the likes of Zuiko 90-250mm f2.8 + Zuiko 300mm f2.8 + Zuiko 150mm f2.0 + couple of Zuiko f2.0 zooms no less ... that hurts
And does the E-M1 not bring something modern to these?
--dl*
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And does the E-M1 not bring something modern to these?
--dl*
Yes, indeed it does.... one of these:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Cd5NLzs/0/L/i-Cd5NLzs-L.png)
And much slower AF.
Rand
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Well, I pulled the trigger on pre-ordering a body, the grip, and three of the new batteries. Nice to have a dealer I've dealt with for 30 or more years. I'm #3 on his list, and have been invited to a "do" with Fuji reps later this month.
Nice to be so ancient and have something to look forward to like a kid! LOL
Rand
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I am wondering if the older NP-W126 batteries from the X-Pro 2 and X-T1 will work on the X-T2. The new battery is supposed to be cooler thus allowing less heat build up. The X-Pro2, does get hot around the grip with extended use.
Paul C
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I am wondering if the older NP-W126 batteries from the X-Pro 2 and X-T1 will work on the X-T2. The new battery is supposed to be cooler thus allowing less heat build up. The X-Pro2, does get hot around the grip with extended use.
Paul C
From the B&H product description:
"For using the maximum power of your X-T2 or X-Pro2 mirrorless camera, the Fujifilm NP-W126S Li-Ion Battery Pack has been designed to better manage heat and ensure lightning fast camera performance. This battery is also compatible with older cameras that use the NP-W126 battery pack, but users will not see any performance advantages in those bodies."
Rand
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Looks good.
I like Fuji's commitment to their lens line-up.
Something you don't see from everyone.
I tried the 35 f2 and 56 1.2 on an XT-1 and was very impressed.
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I like Fuji's commitment to their lens line-up.
I like the fact that they still publish their line-up.
I have to admit a was a bit cynical about that, like "of course they publish it for a new mount when it has so small selection"... Sony et. al. stopped updating their lens roadmaps pretty quickly, yet Fuji with their full-fledged line-up is they still doing it. Kudos to them.
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I like and use Fuji stuff, and have quite a few lenses now. And they certainly do listen to their customers.
But the body style I like best is the X-E2 series, and I hope it doesn't get lost in the shuffle, and that they get around to updating it with the new internals at a lower price point. Smaller, lighter, don't care about weatherproofing, don't care about heavy optical viewfinder (almost never use the one in my X100T), don't care about 4K video that cooks the internals after 10 minutes. Not sure what the big marketing hoo-hah is about needing 4K in small APS-C still cameras anyway.
I also notice that they just announced a firmware update for the X-Pro2 that will give it most of the capability of the X-T2. As seems usual with Fuji, you can take this as the glass being either half-full or half-empty. Half-full: kaizen love for customers continues apace. Half-empty: the X-Pro2 should have had this stuff at release, and their practice of releasing cameras with unfinished glitchy firmware continues as usual.
Meanwhile, despite my interest in the X-T2, I just bought a second X-E2 for less than 1/3 the price. (FWIW I have an X-T10 as well as the other X-E2.)
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I just updated the article on the home page with some more information and photos from the NYC Press event.
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I also notice that they just announced a firmware update for the X-Pro2 that will give it most of the capability of the X-T2. As seems usual with Fuji, you can take this as the glass being either half-full or half-empty. Half-full: kaizen love for customers continues apace. Half-empty: the X-Pro2 should have had this stuff at release, and their practice of releasing cameras with unfinished glitchy firmware continues as usual.
So..... how many people do you think would happily wait another 6 months for release of the new camera to have all the new firmware vs. how many people are happy with the camera at release and happier yet to get some new features with a new firmware release later?
What glitches have you observed or heard about with the X-Pro2's first release?
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The X-pro2 has had a few problems,
Power off full reset ( which was supposedly fixed with a previous firmware release.
Camera does get hot with continuous use ( new batteries should help with this)
Black frame error which can be fatal. Has happened to quite a few users no set pattern. While shooting camera shows a black frame and gives a error message to power off. Sometimes it comes back on clearing the error other times the camera is bricked.
Overall mine has been a good camera no major issues.
Paul C
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the X-Pro2 should have had this stuff at release, and their practice of releasing cameras with unfinished glitchy firmware continues as usual.
As long as it can be addressed with firmware updates it is not too bad...
The early runs of the X-T1 had a light leak issue (which was addressed by Fuji) and "mushy buttons" (unfortunately never addressed by Fuji).
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Actually the mushy buttons were addressed in later cameras. Fuji somehow added a bit more resistance so that you could feel them engage.
I have an early X-T1 with the mushy buttons and do hope that the X- T2 has buttons with a similar feel to the X-Pro2's which are excellent.
Paul C
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I really dig what Fuji is doing. I owned an X-T2 until my large scale images demand more than 16 megapixels could offer (and then I got a CFV-50c). I felt at home with the cameras, and I didn't miss flapping mirrors at all. In fact, I just shot on live view for nearly two years. It's like a really great ground glass ... Needless to say, I'm now excited over the X1D. But I'd be happy with a Fuji for most applications. And of course, I hold out hope for a Fuji MF ...
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Actually the mushy buttons were addressed in later cameras. Fuji somehow added a bit more resistance so that you could feel them engage.
I have an early X-T1 with the mushy buttons and do hope that the X- T2 has buttons with a similar feel to the X-Pro2's which are excellent.
Paul C
Understood. But Fuji never offered a solution for the early adopters, not even against payment...
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Understood. But Fuji never offered a solution for the early adopters, not even against payment...
I agree with you on that, as I tried twice to send my X-T1 for a menu button replacement. Once after I read that the later models were different, and 2nd time after I actually tried one. Supposedly in Asia Fuji allowed users to bring the camera into their center to have the switch done, US Fuji did not, and as you point out, would not even make the change if the user agreed to pay. As a big X-T1 user, the button switch would have been a big help for me.
Paul C
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As for the buttons, my x-t1 is an early version that had the light leak which Fuji did fix with a rapid turn-around. Many people have added suguru to the buttons and improved the tactile feel to them, I had some custom leather stick on buttons that I a guy had made on another forum and sold small quantities of them, he found a shop in Vietnam that did them for cheap, really helped the feel of mine.
I do love all the changes that Fuji does and the firmware upgrades, the upgrade firmware rather than continual body upgrades that some manufacturers seem to do. It is interesting to see and hear the issues that others have, some have been an issue at all for me, some are less annoying but it just goes to show, no matter how well you design something and get feedback the photography crowd can be difficult to please, even before pixel peeping.... ;D The nice thing about the Fuji, except for this new camera, really have not made me feel like I constantly want to upgrade or feel that in order to get new features I need to change or upgrade to newer hardware.
To add my $0.02 worth, the one thing that Fuji really needs to do in my opinion, that they have yet to do in firmware upgrades and should be a relative easy thing to do, is to upgrade the bracketing feature for exposures. Sometimes I like to bracket shots to get the dynamic range and the current system of +/- 1 stop sometimes just does not do it for me, I know the new cameras are +/- 2 stops, but why not make it programmable? Make it a user choice of 3,5,7 or 9 shots and +/- 3 stops of more and user settable? Oh well for life to perfect..... ;) I know, maybe Kevin can poke at them and request it, I know I have been but maybe they might listen to Kevin.....
Alan
current GAS sufferer after a hiatus from it....
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The Fujifilm X system appeals to me, particularly its lens system priorities, but I am uncertain how relevant the X-trans CFA approach is in comparison to the new trend of having no AA filter on high resolution Bayer CFA sensors. If I recall correctly, the argument in favor of X-trans is that it avoids moiré without the need for an AA filter, and thus avoids the resolution loss caused by such filters.
Has anyone compared image quality between X-trans and non-AA Bayer cameras based on the same underlying 24MP 24x16mm Sony sensor chip? For example, X-Pro2 vs Nikon D7200 or D5500.
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Totally agree on the bracketing. Plus on my X-Pro2, with bracketing I have a pretty consistent problem getting 3 images in the same focus. Hand holding, with OIS on, seems to be a problem, but even when on a tripod, OIS off, and just using AF, the camera seems to always get one of the 3 image just a tad out of the same degree of focus. I have gone to using manual focus, before I bracket, which seems to resolve most of the problems, just adds a bit of hassle.
With the new shutter, I had thought that hand hold bracketing would be easier (new drive move allowing all brackets to be shot at once).
Paul C
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For me a great camera system includes a great RAW converter as well. Currently C1 is badly lagging behind. As mentioned in another thread for me RAW conversion shall include proper lens corrections as my 16-55 f/2.8 is heavily depending on it.
Up till now C1 is still unable to read the lens correction parameters from the Fuji X-Pro2 (& X-T2) RAW file. For me it means that for the time being I’m better off staying with my X-T1 and I will only purchase X-T2’s after C1 has included the lens corrections.
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The X-T2 is on my wishlist for sure... will have to be content with my X-T1 for a while yet. Intrigued by the option of the new 23mm f2. If it's compact my X-T1 might have one semi-permanently attached to it as my EDC.
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There is a quick review sample of the X-T2 4K videon on dpreview. It seems competitive with most cameras except the Sony A6300 which has significantly better resolution (and some moire).
I'm not a video shooter though so the addition of the color profiles for me weighs a lot, as I have minimal intentions to spent time grading the film. Provia (maybe a little Velvia) and Acros and my requirements are met. One can only dream about raw video with the color profile applied in post.
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Boy, the reviews are just getting better and better on this camera. Has anyone found any [Camera Body, VPB Grip, and set of 2-3 Batteries] bundle packages? What I'll be ordering and hoping to save a couple of bucks with a bundle.
Thanks.
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Boy, the reviews are just getting better and better on this camera. Has anyone found any [Camera Body, VPB Grip, and set of 2-3 Batteries] bundle packages? What I'll be ordering and hoping to save a couple of bucks with a bundle.
Thanks.
Be very leary of early reviews. Many of these so called reviewers are on the Fuji payroll one way or another. I'd wait until the camera is out so the normal Joe can give it a go.
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Be very leary of early reviews. Many of these so called reviewers are on the Fuji payroll one way or another. I'd wait until the camera is out so the normal Joe can give it a go.
Many of the reviews are "Fuji X Photographers". They get early review cameras but are NOT compensated by Fuji. The deal with Fuji is that they share their honest opinions and provide feedback with the company. At a certain point after announcement Fuji lifts the NDA so they are free to share their opinions.
Which photographers reviewing the X-T2 have you found to be on the Fuji payroll?
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I just played with one the other day at my local emporium, Pro Photo Supply in Portland. A Fuji rep brought a couple of bodies and lenses to use. Since the firmware is not finalized, he would not let us take files home, but it was nice to actually see it, hold it and listen to the shutter. I've been a happy Fuji user since the X E-1 and through the X T-1 and the X T-2 looks good. I am totally uninterested in video but the things in which I am interested appeal. For me the dual card slots make a huge difference (I had a card failure with many photos while in the Galapagos, major angst, but it was with a D800E, and the second card bailed me out). The joystick is... a joy. The buttons are now much more tactile. With the grip mounted it feels quite a bit bigger but without the grip it's minimally larger than the X T-1. I never had a problem with the dials but the new locking ones are nice. All in all, I'm happy I'm near the top of the list when it arrives in August, would be nice, or in September, which is more realistic.
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At this point, even if some of the features are being hyped, the X-T2 seems to be worth the price of admission. I understand the risks of early adoption. With Fuji's track record of providing updates this is a much lower risk than with other manufacturers that seem to think they can deliver a perfect system out of the gate. With the cameras now depending on software (firmware) for their features and performance, a more software oriented delivery model will be the norm. Fuji is ahead of the curve in this respect.
Thinking back to my upgrade from my Canon 50d to the 7d and the more advanced focusing system of the 7d was so rewarding. I'm expecting the X-T2 to deliver a similar reward. It isn't a secret the focusing system of the X-T1 is a bit challenged and they seem to be dedicated to delivering in this area. Really, they have to if they want to break into the pro market with any volume.
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I find it amazing that the LCD still isn't fully articulate. Just sayin ...
Don Bryant
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I find it amazing that the LCD still isn't fully articulate. Just sayin ...
Don Bryant
Which camera with fully articulated LCD do you prefer or think they should emulate? Does it add size or weight to that camera?
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I find it amazing that the LCD still isn't fully articulate. Just sayin ...
Don Bryant
In theory I find the way the LCD is articulated just perfect.
A fully articulated LCD has to be flipped out to do anything, too cumbersome when all you need is simple tilt. A tilt up/down only LCD is not that helpful for a portrait orientation. Fuji's solution takes the best from these options.
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Fuji's LCD design seems very similar to the Pentax K1 which is a very good design.
Wish they had allowed just basic movement with the X-pro2 screen
Paul C
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Nice review: http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-review-fujifilm-x-t2/
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I'm pleased to see the screen flip vertically, even if only to a maximum of about 45°. I've long been awaiting some feature which can be used due to the lack of an angle finder for my Fujifilm bodies. Since I now rarely use my Canon gear, I'll be boxing it up for sale on ebay. I'm really pleased with the X-System and will be purchasing the X-T2 once it reaches Germany.
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Just so you are aware, I have shot with the XT-2 but our policy here is not to do a review on a product unless it is a shipping version. We will have a thorough review on the X-T2 once we receive a final version. Will keep you posted.
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I'm pleased to see the screen flip vertically, even if only to a maximum of about 45°. I've long been awaiting some feature which can be used due to the lack of an angle finder for my Fujifilm bodies. Since I now rarely use my Canon gear, I'll be boxing it up for sale on ebay. I'm really pleased with the X-System and will be purchasing the X-T2 once it reaches Germany.
I'm with you, Mike. I like the new flip LCD and the rest of the features. What an upgrade. I will be buying the X-T2 and keeping my X-T1 as a second camera.
All my Canon gear goes on the block soon.
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My camera store had a Fuji sponsored event today, with X-T2 there and available for handling with pretty much any lens one would want to try. In terms of size, handling, menu, speed of AF, AF tracking, etc., I can tell you that in "my hands" it more than lives up to the hype.
The new vertical battery grip, feels even better than the X-T1 grip. AF is as fast, or faster than my X-Pro2. "Blackout" when on Boost mode w/ the grip is all but non-existent and I think it will either be no issue re AF tracking of moving subjects, or at least so minimal as to be managable. I tracked some cars zooming down a major SoCal boulevard on AFC, 11 frames per second, and had no difficulty keeping my subject accurately framed.
I had already pre-ordered from this dealer, and am #3 on their list. I'm more excited now than before.
Rand
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Rand,
What store was it? I wish I had known I would have liked to be there. Glad it looks like it is living up to some of the previews.
Alan
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Which camera with fully articulated LCD do you prefer or think they should emulate? Does it add size or weight to that camera?
At this point, I prefer cameras that allow for a fully articulated LCD. Adding size or weight is irrelevant to me. For disclosure though, I have severe osteoarthritis.
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Rand,
What store was it? I wish I had known I would have liked to be there. Glad it looks like it is living up to some of the previews.
Alan
Alan,
Paul's Photo in Torrance. I've done busines with them for the last 35 years.
https://www.facebook.com/paulsphoto/photos/a.452007758507.234608.102535923507/10155104622088508/?type=3&theater
Rand
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Thanks Rand, I used to go to Pauls all the time back in my film days, bought my Canon A-1 back in the day. I will keep my eyes peeled for other Fuji events in other stores.
Alan
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Many of the reviews are "Fuji X Photographers". They get early review cameras but are NOT compensated by Fuji. The deal with Fuji is that they share their honest opinions and provide feedback with the company. At a certain point after announcement Fuji lifts the NDA so they are free to share their opinions.
Which photographers reviewing the X-T2 have you found to be on the Fuji payroll?
None of us are on any "payroll". The way it works is to think of it as NPS or CPS, but with the added bonus of getting early access to gear to evaluate; loaners to use on occasion when we want to try something new or different; and sometimes gear in exchange for doing educational seminars, talks, etc. And, yes, we get a discount on the purchase of gear, which is nice. That’s about it.
I will say that it’s a great company to be affiliated with. They listen carefully to our feedback, and when there’s a large aggregate of suggestions, they implement it as quickly as corporate speed allows (unlike a number of other camera companies — who shall remain nameless — who take a very paternal, “you’ll get what we give you” approach to camera design and implementation).
btw: a word about the X-T2’s autofocus system. After watching Chris Nicholls’ (The Camera Store) NYC video where he tested the X-T2, I called him today and asked him “off the record” whether its performance is really as good as he indicated. He told me that indeed it was. At least as good as the Sony A6300, but with the added benefit of the 5 custom programmable modes. I then asked him precisely which DSLRs the X-T2 could compete against re autofocus tracking ability. He said it was comparable to the Nikon D7200 and the Canon 7DII.
I’d say that’s a big leap forward for Fuji … and eminently usable.
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Robert, did you get a X-T2 to evaluate? I am looking forward to getting mine, which I have on order. I do wish they would extend the bracketing, I know they did a little on this model. But at least +/-3 stops and configurable 3,5,7,9 shots would be nice. It would also be nice if they would make it controllable via usb port with third party applications. The full PTP protocol instead of just transfer of images. But minor quibbles, they are very responsive and I have enjoyed all my Fuji cameras.
Alan
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It is a bit strange that Fuji has kept to only 3 brackets total, even on the X-Pro2. With all of their firmware updates, this issue has not been addressed, and plenty of photographers have asked for at least 5 brackets. They did increase the exposure range on the X-Pro2, but kept total number of brackets to 3.
The new shutter makes shooting brackets so easy, I would hope that in the future Fuji will address this with a firmware fix. Not sure if it will be done in the upcoming Vr 2 or not.
I also wonder if the X-T2 is limited to only 3 brackets? If it allows more then there is hope for the X-Pro2 in the future.
Paul C
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I think it's up in the air as I'm not aware of anyone having the production level firmware.
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Chasseur d'Image published this month a very positive review of the XT-2. They call it the best APS-C camera.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'm super impressed with the new AF system in the X-T2. My X-T1 will become my back. I'm convinced by enough reviews with pre-production firmware on the AF that I'm going to be selling my Canon 7D and the rest of my Canon gear.
Here's a good video review putting it through its paces.
https://youtu.be/vUPxVYAnz_E
Here's a comment from another photographer about the review that was super encouraging. I'm sorry that I've lost the initial link and therefore can't provide attribution. Perhaps I'll find it eventually. Anyway, here's the comment.
btw: a word about the X-T2’s autofocus system. After watching Chris Nicholls’ (The Camera Store) NYC video where he tested the X-T2, I called him today and asked him “off the record” whether its performance is really as good as he indicated. He told me that indeed it was. At least as good as the Sony A6300, but with the added benefit of the 5 custom programmable modes. I then asked him precisely which DSLRs the X-T2 could compete against re autofocus tracking ability. He said it was comparable to the Nikon D7200 and the Canon 7DII.
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Here's a pretty detailed "first look" review. It's actually quite detailed in the camera specs, operation and design.
http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-review-fujifilm-x-t2/
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Here's a pretty detailed "first look" review. It's actually quite detailed in the camera specs, operation and design.
http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-review-fujifilm-x-t2/
Good catch. Rico really knows his stuff. I attended a two-day workshop on the X-T1 that he put on in Santa Barbara about a year ago or so. I went away understanding the "iso-less" sensor a lot better. Very fun and personable guy, too.
Rand
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Rand, if he ever comes to North Carolina I'd definitely sign up for his workshop. I'd be hard pressed though to justify a flight to CA though. ;D
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Both Adorama and B&H are showing that shipping will start Sept. 8th. Rico's first look is pretty detailed. I am sure he is working on a book as well since he has one for every other model.
Alan
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Looks like the cameras should be shipping tomorrow. Adorama has charged my credit card, so I am sure it is going to ship soon.
Alan
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I'm going in a trip which will involve plenty of photography in a little over a week and I'm very tempted but only if I can get it fast, meaning they have more than just for the preorders. Otherwise it's safer to wait for the bugs to iron out.
Not the wisest decision to go with a new camera out there but I'm so so tempted.
My local guys are useless to be honest, I doubt they even have any in stock right now as they couldn't even tell me if they have any. So much for supporting the local economy.
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Considering the batteries are practically the same I expect we'll need even more of them with the new processor. Wonder if they have enough stock of these too.
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By all reports battery life hasn't changed at all. The new battery is only different in its dissipation of heat.
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Here's a pretty detailed "first look" review. It's actually quite detailed in the camera specs, operation and design.
http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-review-fujifilm-x-t2/
Nice review, and very interesting camera. Im enjoying my XPro1 especially with the 14mm and learning how to best develop the images from the Xtrans. The better EVF and much improved autofocus performance looks to be just what is needed
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It seems to be sold out already.
Now we will get to see reviews from the real world, historically they have been less positive than the prerelease ones.
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Fuji only shipped a certain number as the earthquake did seem to effect their output. The ones shipped may have been assembled prior to the damage hit the chip line, unknown.
But B&H seems to be shipping out the first backordered cameras.
Paul C
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Apparently I cannot control myself and I just placed an order for a one and a 35 F2 while I was at it.
Now I have to decide if I should take the 14 F2.8, 18-55 F2.8-4 +/- 60 F2.4 or the 10-24 F4, 35 F2 and the 60 F2.4?
(Of course I didn't rule out the E-M5ii as it's already tested)
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Adorama is showing them in stock and free overnight shipping. They told me when I called to check status on my pre-order that they received more than they had pre-orders for, so that might be an option.
I should have mine on Friday morning, they upgraded me to free overnight shipping so happy about that.....
Alan
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Adorama is showing them in stock and free overnight shipping. They told me when I called to check status on my pre-order that they received more than they had pre-orders for, so that might be an option.
I should have mine on Friday morning, they upgraded me to free overnight shipping so happy about that.....
Alan
That's where I ordered from, they were the only bigger site with them in stock. I'll see if I get along with it well in a couple of days before I decide taking it on the trip. While better (as in more forgiving) quality is desirable I need it to work well as I'm tempted not to get a back up camera (I usually get the RX100 mk1).
I'm curious to see if I can adapt my current L-plate from the X-T1; I know it's a little bigger but I have 2 identical L-plates so I can "play" with one of them.
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Btw, the new battery type was in stock only at B&H.
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That's where I ordered from, they were the only bigger site with them in stock. I'll see if I get along with it well in a couple of days before I decide taking it on the trip. While better (as in more forgiving) quality is desirable I need it to work well as I'm tempted not to get a back up camera (I usually get the RX100 mk1).
I'm curious to see if I can adapt my current L-plate from the X-T1; I know it's a little bigger but I have 2 identical L-plates so I can "play" with one of them.
I have heard the door won't open or close with the X-t1 l-plate, I am sure they will come out soon with l-plates.
Alan
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I picked up my X-T2 and Vertical Battery Grip today. Spent the late afternoon getting it configured. Size wise I was expecting the newer "more square" battery grip and the slighly larger size of the camera body to be noticeable. It's not. Feels a little better, if anything.
This camera is considerably more complex than the X-T1 in terms of set up. The manual is typical mfg manual - as in not very detailed. But I muddled through OK. Configuring the fn buttons is much different than with the X-T1 and took me a little while to figure out how to do it. Once I realized that you have to menu-dive to do it, Fuji's implementation is actually excellent. I don't particularly like the implementation of AF Lock button/function compared to the X-T1, but I'll adjust/adapt. One of the GREAT things is that the "playback" function is assignable to the fn buttons. I moved it to the front button so that I no longer need to do the two-handed tango to quickly get to image review. Bravo...
AF is much faster. The "joy-stick" for moving/sizing the AF target is wonderful and works as it does on the X-Pro2. High ISO is flat out amazing compared to X-T1. 6,400 is very usable. 12,800 usable in a pinch and with some care in PP. Dynamic range increase is wonderful and is as the X-Pro2, as one would expect.
Love that the grip comes with AC adapter that also charges the two batteries in the grip w/o taking them out of the camera. Nice. And the camera body's battery can be charged via the usb port while in the camera. With three batteries I don't think I'll have to do much if any battery swapping in the field, and can just plug it in when back from a shoot w/o doing all the battery swapping/charging drill.
I'm impressed so far. It is much more than an incremental step up from the X-T1.
Rand
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The "joy-stick" for moving/sizing the AF target is wonderful and works as it does on the X-Pro2.
From the perspective of someone who hasn't owned a Fuji, the joystick was something that I really liked when I spent an hour with an XT2.
Love that the grip comes with AC adapter that also charges the two batteries in the grip w/o taking them out of the camera.
I like this capability too, though I wasn't so keen on how the camera felt with the grip attached. Maybe that's because I had already noticed how much I liked the basic camera's feel with the 18-55, and also because I wanted a smaller camera. The grip wasn't a show-stopper though, and I expect I'll see it as a possibly-unpleasant necessity.
In the UK, Warehouse Express don't appear to have enough stock to satisfy pre-orders, so I'll just have to wait. [Update] Having just checked my back-order, there's now a green button against "in stock"....
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B&H notified me that my X-T2, vertical grip and batteries have shipped and will arrive Monday.
I'm looking forward to putting it through its paces when it arrives.
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,,, had already noticed how much I liked the basic camera's feel with the 18-55 ...
I agree. Unforturnately for me, I have very large hands and the grip makes "my" grip on the camera much more comfortable. Also, with the X-T2 it seems that its masimum performance in AF is dependant on the boost mode.
Rand
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Unforturnately for me, I have very large hands and the grip makes "my" grip on the camera much more comfortable.
Big hands here too, but this is obviously individual taste and may vary with time, circumstance, lens. Maybe what I was noticing was how the grip particularly changes the camera's character so it no longer feels so small? Whatever, it was something I particularly noticed.
Also, with the X-T2 it seems that its masimum performance in AF is dependant on the boost mode.
Yes, and I often shoot way over 400 frames in a session. That tipped the balance in favour of getting the grip.
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I got mine this morning had it delivered to work. Not a lot of time playing with it, just at lunch. Love the way the buttons feel, the joystick is wonderful. The tilting of the screen is really a bonus in two directions. I think I am going to like the lock and unlock of the ISO and shutter speed dials. Lots of nice enhancements, hope to do some testing over the weekend.
Alan
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I got mine this morning had it delivered to work.
Alan,
Glad it arrived! Do me a favor and give me a subjective sense of the on-off switch. Is it "crisp and clicky" or more "smooth and soundless"?
Rand
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Hi, just an FYI, not a complaint. My X-T2 body will be going back to the camera store on Monday for a replacement.
The on/off switch is apparently defective.
Symptoms:
•Camera will spontaneously turn itself on, then turn off.
•This happens when I turn it off (it turns right back on, cycles, then turns off)
•Sometimes it turns itself on and stays on.
•Sometimes if I do something like touch one of the buttons, open the card door, etc. it will spontaneously turn on, cycle through starting up, then shut back down.
•Sometimes just holding and moving/ rotating the body will turn it on.
•Occasionally it won't turn off when I turn it off. Cycling the on/off switch finally turns it off.
Very weird. I did a reset and it didn't clear the problem. I'm familiar with Fuji (owning several cameras that work flawlessly) so it isn't pilot error.
Discouraging, but not the end of the world. Someone has to be in that very small percentage of folk who will get a random defect.
Rand
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These are the kind of reports that get me worried and wonder if I should get the X-T2 in my next backpacking trip. It's tempting but only if it's going to be reliable.
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These are the kind of reports that get me worried and wonder if I should get the X-T2 in my next backpacking trip. It's tempting but only if it's going to be reliable.
I would not hesitate to buy. The only reason I posted my issue was to see if there were others who had the same issue - thinking that it might be a common defect. In all the internet sites I visit that are Fuji relateted where I've shared my problem, no one else reports anything like this. So, I think mine is just a manufacutring fluke that wasn't caught and is one among many thousands that are working perfectly.
Rand
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Mine has been solid, sorry Rand had problems but that is probably just an outlier. The response for focusing is faster, I have had no problem using my wasabi batteries. I did try some BIF shots but it was in bad conditions, well after sunset and the winds were blowing pretty good and the birds were cruising really fast on the wind. Got a few shots, focusing was better than any previous Fuji. I do not have the grip and I was using the 100-400mm at 400mm. It is going to be a nice upgrade that is for sure.
Alan
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Just got mine today, including a 10-24 lens which you Alan and Ron were praising in the lenses thread. On / off switch seems normal.
I've been looking for something. Is there any way to display the battery status? I see 3 battery icons in the viewfinder, but is there a screen where I can see more info, eg percentages for each?
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Hi John,
Try cycling through the disp back button, as on the X-Pro2, one of the screens will show a percentage for the battery, and one only just shows the batter icon.
Paul C
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Got it, Paul, thank you.
John
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Just got to open the box and quickly set it up. First shocker, there is no more focus assist buton (I use it a lot on X-T1); luckily it behaves like the X-E1 where you press the rear dial.
A quick nuissance: is it too much to ask to have a charged battery in the box?
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A quick nuissance: is it too much to ask to have a charged battery in the box?
Yes. There are probably big insurance issues nowadays shipping charged lithium batteries around the world.
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First shocker, there is no more focus assist button (I use it a lot on X-T1); luckily it behaves like the X-E1 where you press the rear dial.
This is also how the X Pro 2 behaves. It's nice to have them handle mostly the same way.
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I got my X-T2 Monday along with the vertical battery grip but I've had very little time to dig into it. A couple of my personal quick impressions/thoughts... YMMV
- I wear glasses and while the new eyecup is an improvement I still prefer the extended eyecup (which works with the X-T2)
- my Lensmate thumb grip for the X-T1 works well as there is no physical change on that portion of the camera
- I've ordered a new threaded shutter release button
- the new processor makes the camera a lot more responsive in viewing images, going through the menus, etc.
- gotta learn the new menus then customize the menus and buttons to my preferences
- love the "C" setting on the EC dial - now I can easily control it from the front command dial and extend it from -5 to +5 EV
- love the new bracket that allows for 2EV spread (still wish for more than 3 shots though)
- VBG is very well thought out and doesn't feel clunky at all - easy to take on and off the camera
- the dial lock releases are excellent
More after I've had quality time behind the lens
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Received mine yesterday,
Miss having the play button on the right side as with X-Pro2 (wonder if you can program Q button to be play?)
AF on my mine is hit and miss, with the 16-55. 3 shots all in AF mode, 2 sharp, 1 slightly off, happens a lot. Not sure if the 16-55 needs new firmware or what. Will try other glass later. Verified that the lens is OK in M mode on tripod 12 shots all the same, so the focus by wire on my unit is a bit off.
LR seems a tad better in the finer stuff, pine needles especially look a bit more real now.
Paul C
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Miss having the play button on the right side as with X-Pro2 (wonder if you can program Q button to be play?)
You can't program the Q button to be anything but the Q menu. But its interal items can be changed somewhat.
BUT, you can program any of the other function buttons to be playback. I had assigned it to the lower button on the 4 pad-buttons. Since I also use an X-Pro2, I too, loved not having to do "the stretch" to the left side of the camera body.
Rand
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Rand,
Great idea, and thanks. I agree the play on the right side is hard to beat.
Paul C
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Tried the X-T1 quite liked it there are some notable improvements at least on paper. Not sure the about the price seems rather steep might improve over time
Shame there is no IBIS that might have swung it for me
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I think Fuji has said IBIS would not fit in the current bodies.
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Just wish that the current 16-55 had the IS, I see that Fuji has a new version coming out of the 16-55 with IS, assuming it is also the XF level.
Paul C
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Just wish that the current 16-55 had the IS, I see that Fuji has a new version coming out of the 16-55 with IS, assuming it is also the XF level.
Paul C
Where did you see they are coming out with an updated one? They had said a long time it was too expensive and would make the lens too large to add IS. it already is quite large.
Alan
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Where did you see they are coming out with an updated one? They had said a long time it was too expensive and would make the lens too large to add IS. it already is quite large.
Alan
The 16-55 is a real beast. I seldom use mine despite the excellent image quality, simply due to the bulk. IS would be a nice feature. But more weight?
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Where did you see they are coming out with an updated one? They had said a long time it was too expensive and would make the lens too large to add IS. it already is quite large.
Alan
Hi Alan, back on Fuji rumors a few months ago, there was post where Fuji had patented a new 16-55 with IS, not seen much since then however.
Here is the link:
http://www.fujirumors.com/?s=Fuji+16-55
Paul C
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I am thinking of moving to the 18-135 as it covers most of my needed range, and seems to be a good lens, can't remember if it's XF weather sealed or not, but has IS.
Paul C
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What Fuji needs (as in I would buy one) is a 16-70/80 F4, weather sealed and with competitive image quality. I see that Olympus is supposedly bringing a 12-100 F4 Pro which weighs about as much as the 55-200 from Fuji. Make the Fuji lighter and you have something ideal for hiking.
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I am thinking of moving to the 18-135 as it covers most of my needed range, and seems to be a good lens, can't remember if it's XF weather sealed or not, but has IS.
Paul C
Paul, I have the 18-135 and it is indeed WR. It's my do everything lens for walkabouts in small towns, historic districts and short hikes. It has good optics but not really great. I've found it sharpest around 50mm. I've used it in the rain without issue on my X-T1 and probably will with my X-T2. It's on my camera more than any other lens until a situation requires something else.
I'd like to acquire a 50-140 and a 16-55 but they are beasts compared to the 18-135.
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Hi Alan, back on Fuji rumors a few months ago, there was post where Fuji had patented a new 16-55 with IS, not seen much since then however.
Here is the link:
http://www.fujirumors.com/?s=Fuji+16-55
Paul C
Hardly credible, I would really doubt they would do a duplicate with IS. But who knows.
Alan
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Hi Alan.
Lost me a bit on the hardly creditable?? It's an official patent from Fuji Corp with the registration number at least rhat is how I read it.
And Fuji rumors tends to be about 90 to 95 percent fact based as I read their posts.
I agree strange to have to lenses same focal length zoom and Fuji may never make it but the patent request looks legit. I guess only time will tell.
Paul C
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I have been shooting with the X-T2 for a few weeks now. A camera to get excited about. I'll have a video and first impressions report early next week. Shot with it in Greenland and was amazed at its performance. Using it in the Dolomites now. I am having no AF issues with any of the lenses I have. The 100-400 is amazing. More coming soon. Big week next week with Photokina. I will have more to say about thing starting on Tuesday. Some interesting things are expected.
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Paul,
I suspect the patent may be the original design, which they then changed, but pure speculation. A lot of people are not happy with the size and a larger version would be bigger issue I would think. They also stated in an interview about the lens, that they wanted ultimate image quality, and the Fuji engineer said that the IS might compromise the IQ slightly, so that is also why it was left out.
Alan
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Kevin,
Looking forward to all the reports from Photokina and your views on the X-T2, I know I am sure enjoying mine.
Alan
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I got mine last week. It's now rocking with my X-Pro2 in my Billingham Hadley Pro bag with a couple of Fuji primes.
I so don't miss my Canon FF DSLRs and huge L glass.
Bud James
www.budjames.photography
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Is there no option to embed full size JPEG previews in the raw file?
I am not talking about the Raw+Fine option to create two files per photo, purely about the JPEG preview that is embedded in the raw file. As far as I can see, this is always 1920 x 1280 pixels, not the full 6000x4000, so it limits one's ability to review fine details in Photo Mechanic which uses the embedded preview. Have I missed something here?
I'll also warn you about the 14fps rate with the electronic shutter. OK, in the right circumstances it'll be great, but yesterday I tried it out at London's Speakers Corner - and it doesn't take many bursts to come home with way over 1000 frames to cull. That's why I was using PhotoMechanic!
John
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Jon,
No there is no full size embedded preview. I don't know of any camera manfacturer that has a full size jpg preview. They are all reduced as far as I know.
Alan
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John, like you I've been shooting RAW+JPG (Fine) since we've now got 2 card slots. I did notice that on Import that Lightroom doesn't show the images of the RAW files. I thought that was odd. However in reviewing images the X-T2 definitely shows a thumbnail JPG when you're looking at a RAW file. Or at least that's what I think as when I choose to view the card slot with JPGs I can zoom in to a much great degree than when viewing the RAW files. I have no idea yet why Lightroom doesn't display the typical RAW thumbnail unless Fuji hasn't shared some spec.
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No there is no full size embedded preview. I don't know of any camera manfacturer that has a full size jpg preview. They are all reduced as far as I know.
Pretty sure Nikon do, Alan.
I can't say for sure as I'm away from my main PC.
John
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John, like you I've been shooting RAW+JPG (Fine) since we've now got 2 card slots. I did notice that on Import that Lightroom doesn't show the images of the RAW files. I thought that was odd. However in reviewing images the X-T2 definitely shows a thumbnail JPG when you're looking at a RAW file. Or at least that's what I think as when I choose to view the card slot with JPGs I can zoom in to a much great degree than when viewing the RAW files. I have no idea yet why Lightroom doesn't display the typical RAW thumbnail unless Fuji hasn't shared some spec.
Actually, Ron, I don't shoot raw + JPEG because that gives me twice as many files to manage! I would only do so in some circumstances (such as extreme time pressure).
I am not sure exactly what was happening in your case, but I was actually using a B&W film simulation yesterday and the Import dialog showed the Fuji B&W conversion. That's because Import only uses the JPEG preview that is embedded inside each raw file. This is the 1920x1280 that I see in PM. But when you view the JPEG card, then you are seeing the 6000x4000 of the fine JPEG.
What's actually behind my interest in full sized previews is partly a desire to compare Fuji JPEGs with Adobe's output - I was very happy with how Adobe's Velvia treatment matched up to Fuji's. But I also have a little plugin that uses Exiftool to extract the embedded JPEG and add it into Lightroom. If the raf contained a full size preview, I'd be able to get the Fuji fine JPEG directly whenever I wanted - instead of needing to think ahead....
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Another tip on the in camera is I turn on sharpening +2, especially on the 24MP Fuji's as without it when you view the jpg after the shot, you can't make out enough to see if the finer stuff is there in focus.
At least for my tired eyes.
Paul C
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John, I've only had the Fuji X-T2 for a short while and shooting RAW+JPG (RAW to Slot 1 and JPG to Slot 2) was simply an experiment I was doing with some night time photography of Waffle House and other establishments that looked cool. I was just learning my way around the camera. I have two 32 Gb UHS II cards so I went for it. I loved how easy Fuji has made it to switch between viewing Slot 1 and Slot 2 photos.
On my shots the color fidelity between the RAW and JPG in camera were remarkably good. Again, just testing things with Provia, Velvia and Acros. The Acros is pretty compelling and I'm going to have to try that some more in Lightroom for RAW conversion using the Acros profile. Acros JPGs looked great.
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Pretty sure Nikon do, Alan.
I can't say for sure as I'm away from my main PC.
John
I used to shoot Canon, it makes sense that previews are not full size. A full size jpg takes processing time and creates larger files. Maybe Nikon does but I would find it hard to see why they would, but that is just me. With Fuji you can always process a raw file in camera and output a jpg for comparisons, just a thought.
Alan
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On my shots the color fidelity between the RAW and JPG in camera were remarkably good. Again, just testing things with Provia, Velvia and Acros. The Acros is pretty compelling and I'm going to have to try that some more in Lightroom for RAW conversion using the Acros profile. Acros JPGs looked great.
We've all only had the XT2 a short while!
I actually used the Acros - Green in camera, more because I wanted a green filter look than because I wanted to simulate a particular film (I admit I'd never heard of the Acros brand though I knew of Fuji's Neopan and have a lot of Ilford and Agfa negs). Much against my expectation, I quite enjoyed composing with a B&W image in the EVF, and it definitely made me work harder to isolate subjects from a very messy background. That's good even if I later choose to use those images in colour.
Anyway, I compared the extracted JPEGs to Adobe's corresponding profile and they were acceptably close as a starting point. The trouble was that as soon as I wanted to fine tune the look in the B&W panel, I then had to lose the Adobe Acros profile. But I see that as a small thing compared to the positive effect of composing in B&W.
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I used to shoot Canon, it makes sense that previews are not full size. A full size jpg takes processing time and creates larger files. Maybe Nikon does but I would find it hard to see why they would, but that is just me. With Fuji you can always process a raw file in camera and output a jpg for comparisons, just a thought.
I think it's an option with Nikon, not default, but it's something I've set after buying the cameras. The benefit is significant - in software like PM or Nikon View, you can review and output the full size image quickly and without raw conversion.
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But I see that as a small thing compared to the positive effect of composing in B&W.
John, that's one reason I love shooting RAW and JPEG. I see in real B&W but have the ability to then process the RAW if I choose.
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John, that's one reason I love shooting RAW and JPEG. I see in real B&W but have the ability to then process the RAW if I choose.
I feel I can always produce better B&Ws in Lightroom etc, so I would only shoot raw+jpeg on exceptional occasions, but it was surprising how the B&W in the EVF caused me to be more careful with background clutter. Seeing the aperture's effect in real time was also an interesting experience.
@Alan I just checked my Nikon raw files and they all have a full size embedded preview. I can't find the option on my D800, so maybe it's now the default.
John
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Thanks John was not aware of that about Nikon cameras.
The Fuji has the built in raw converter on the camera so you can always generate different jpgs with different conversions etc. for comparisons.
I agree I set it b&w mode often, makes it interesting for composing images. If I am worried about critical focus I will shoot raw+jpg, that way when you do a review in camera and zoom in it will use the full size jpg rather then the embedded preview.
Alan
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Alan, a friend tells me his Canon 7D has a full size embedded preview - he tested it. Someone else thinks that if you shoot raw + fine JPEG, Canon embeds a fine JPEG inside the raw file. If raw + normal JPEG, they embed a normal JPEG in the raw. So it seems Canon allows full size embedded previews too.
Imagine you're culling a big shoot like my 1200+ from just a couple of hours with the electronic shutter and high speed. With Nikon raw files, I only have one raw file per photo and using PhotoMechanic or Mac's Preview I quickly review full size embedded previews, and output them too. Compare that with the XT2 raws and imagine I have a hi-res monitor - the previews are only 1920x1280 and to review images at 1:1 I'll need to use a raw converter and will not be seeing the Fuji rendering.
Anyway, I've contacts at Fuji UK and will ping them after Photokina.
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I feel I can always produce better B&Ws in Lightroom etc, so I would only shoot raw+jpeg on exceptional occasions, but it was surprising how the B&W in the EVF caused me to be more careful with background clutter. Seeing the aperture's effect in real time was also an interesting experience.
John
My B&W conversion tool of choice is generally MacPhun Tonality called from Lr but sometimes from PS.
Seeing in B&W vs imagining seeing in B&W is a HUGE benefit. As you say, I see the scene, shapes, lines, tones, etc. all in a different light with the EVF. 😄
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Alan, a friend tells me his Canon 7D has a full size embedded preview - he tested it. Someone else thinks that if you shoot raw + fine JPEG, Canon embeds a fine JPEG inside the raw file. If raw + normal JPEG, they embed a normal JPEG in the raw. So it seems Canon allows full size embedded previews too.
Imagine you're culling a big shoot like my 1200+ from just a couple of hours with the electronic shutter and high speed. With Nikon raw files, I only have one raw file per photo and using PhotoMechanic or Mac's Preview I quickly review full size embedded previews, and output them too. Compare that with the XT2 raws and imagine I have a hi-res monitor - the previews are only 1920x1280 and to review images at 1:1 I'll need to use a raw converter and will not be seeing the Fuji rendering.
Anyway, I've contacts at Fuji UK and will ping them after Photokina.
It's sure worth a try as Fuji does listen and may allow it later on with a firmware update. I agree that with the larger 24MP, the preview does suffer a bit even with sharpening turned up.
Paul C
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It's sure worth a try as Fuji does listen and may allow it later on with a firmware update.
That's exactly why I thought it worthwhile, Paul. Other camera makers use firmware updates for bugs, Fuji refines and adds features.
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John, any idea how many MB will a full size JPEG would add to the RAW or compressed RAW file?
Just curious as I've been only saving with compressed RAW.
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I'd guess the option would add 6mb per file, Ron. Assuming Fuji would use the camera's fine JPEG, the camera seems to create 7mb files but you would no longer need the existing .5mb 1920x1280 image. Compression then seems to shrink the fine JPEGs by about 10%. So around 6mb extra.
John
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Thanks, John. It sounds like an option that Fuji might be willing to entertain along with the existing RAW and JPG options.
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I'll speak to my own sources in the UK, but I've pinged Kevin R just in case he's due to meet Fuji at Photokina and is (perhaps unusually) lost for words ;)
John
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You are only getting 6mb???? I just took some compressed raw + fine jpgs, the raw files is around 26mb and the jpg is around 12mb, so that brings it closer in size to an uncompressed raw file size. Mine are running around 50mb in size for uncompressed raw files. So if you shot a uncompressed raw with a full size jpg you could be approaching around 75mb per file, I just don't see as that useful when you can generate a full size jpg with a raw file separately, embedding a full size preview does not make a lot of sense to me.
With the dual card slots you could take the raws on one card and the full size jpgs on the other, review and look at those jpgs and toss them if you don't need them and then flag the corresponding raws for processing later.
Alan
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As I keep saying, Alan, shooting raw+jpeg has downsides. One has to decide to do so beforehand, it produces twice the number of photos to manage, and maybe extra cards to keep track of.
Full size previews make all the sense in the world. Nikon see this, Canon seem to do so too. If you are only able to review 1980x1280 pixel versions, you aren't making the best use of today's high res monitors. You can't use something like PhotoMechanic to review or output photos at 1:1 and are then forced to go through a raw converter, which adds a cost in time as well as not showing you the in-camera rendition. And as Fuji are pitching this camera into a professional market, even sports, they do need a full size preview in the file.
I will though try a few more raw + jpegs. I'm getting 26mb compressed raw, around 48, so even with your worst case 12mb JPEG it would be 38 or 60, not 75.
John
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OK, just done a quick review:
- Fine JPEGs average 10.026mb - sample size 43
- Compressed raws average 24.993mb - sample size 1274
That makes my answer to Ron about 9mb - assuming Fuji use their existing fine setting.
John
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As reported in a previous post (below) my original X-T2 was defective. Yesterday my camera store called and let me know the replacment body is in! Hurray for Paul's Photo in Torrance, CA! I picked it up today and all is well in my world again. Given the short supply, I'm impressed with how quickly it was replaced. In all the years I've been buying photo equipment, this was the first defective item I've ever had "out of the box." Pretty good considering I've been at this since the 60's!
For those of you with both XPro and X-T2s, I found that mapping the "playback' to the lower pad button helps w/ not having conflicting muscle memory since the default playback on the T is on the left side of the body.
Happy camper here!
Rand
Hi, just an FYI, not a complaint. My X-T2 body will be going back to the camera store on Monday for a replacement.
The on/off switch is apparently defective.
Symptoms:
•Camera will spontaneously turn itself on, then turn off.
•This happens when I turn it off (it turns right back on, cycles, then turns off)
•Sometimes it turns itself on and stays on.
•Sometimes if I do something like touch one of the buttons, open the card door, etc. it will spontaneously turn on, cycle through starting up, then shut back down.
•Sometimes just holding and moving/ rotating the body will turn it on.
•Occasionally it won't turn off when I turn it off. Cycling the on/off switch finally turns it off.
Very weird. I did a reset and it didn't clear the problem. I'm familiar with Fuji (owning several cameras that work flawlessly) so it isn't pilot error.
Discouraging, but not the end of the world. Someone has to be in that very small percentage of folk who will get a random defect.
Rand
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Yes, took your advice and mapped the playback to the same button. Love that design on the X-Pro2.
Just wish Fuji had allowed the bracketing to be the same also, i.e hit the top menu indent to go to bracketing, instead of having to turn the dial on the left (X-T2).
Paul C
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Jon,
No there is no full size embedded preview. I don't know of any camera manfacturer that has a full size jpg preview. They are all reduced as far as I know.
Alan
Hi Alan
I've written my own image previewer where I extract the JPEG from the raw files for viewing. I have not looked at Fuji, but all the Nikon, Canon and Sony Raws have full size JPEGs embedded, so I think the opposite is true - almost all camera manufacturers have full size JPEGS embedded. For some cameras I believe it is a an option.
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I got to use the X-T2 for roughly 10 days or so of intensive at times shooting in variable and difficult conditions.
Conclusion, it is a better camera in every way compared to X-T1.
Problems: corrupted the memory card in slot 1, a Lexar 1000x (UHS-II). Probably the datafile or so, was able to read it at home without issues. Pretty unnerving though despite the fact that it was using both cards as a backup to each other. The videos stay only on the card in slot 1, the 4K at least. The camera doesn't work without a card in slot 1 which my Nikon D750 has no issues with. The Lexar corruption problem doesn't seem to be limited to me.
The extra resolution is nice, so are the colors. Processing the files in LR easily gets to the wormy appearance even with detail at 100% sharpening. The files are decent but don't expect miracles compared to X-T1 when it comes to malleability and dynamic range, I think they are close. The lenses do look quite sharp with the 24MP at the receiving end.
Very configurable, I find it easier to use and to get to different settings compared to X-T1. I used the Q menu only once, out of curiosity. Buttons have significantly nicer feel to them also. The joystick is nice, I could probably be as fast with the 4-way controller but it lets the 4-way to be used for other functions, much nicer.
The new auto ISO is brilliant, as it has 3 autoISO, easily accessible from a function button. It would have been pure genius if one of then could have been linked to the focal length.
I used it only for landscapes so far so I cannot really comment of the focus.
The viewfinder is nicer for somebody who wears glasses like me. The shape of the eyecup is just right (I bought but don't get along the bigger eyecup for the X-T1, this one on the X-T2 fits me much better).
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Armand, I'm glad you had a good trip and the X-T2 worked well.
My initial thoughts are similar to yours.... better in every way compared to my X-T1.
I usually purchase Sandisk SD cards but their UHS-II Class 3 cards at 32GB and 64GB seem a bit pricey to me. I've been using Delkin UHS-II SD cards (32GB and 64GB) without a problem in my X-T2. They had a sale at B&H. The Delkins aren't quite as fast as the Lexar but more than adequate for speed although I'm not shooting video.
Here's a link to the Fuji compatible SD cards. Scroll to the bottom of the chart. I doubt they're testing every card available.
http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/compatibility/card/x/
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So far I am seeing a bit less of the wormy conversions issue for LR and X-T2.
Keeping sharpening minimal in LR then use focus magic or Piccure +.
Sad the Adobe can't spend a few bucks and pay for the knowledge Iridient has on Fuji Conversions.
It appears Adobe did their usual 1 pass wonder.
Paul C
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When you say wormy, what do you mean? Talking to a few people it seems common to apply 100% Detail to XTrans images (is that because of Pete Bridgwood's advice?) and I wonder if that's really such a good starting point for X-T2 images. At that level I see bits of "debris" on the lighter side of high contrast edges, and I'm finding a better starting point is 90 / 1 / 25 / 60.
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You cannot sharpen X-Trans files in Lightroom the same way you sharpen Bayer sensors. Pete Bridgwood showed the way almost 2 years ago on this.
Pete's blog outlined a good approach for the X-T1 here:
http://petebridgwood.com/wp/2014/10/x-trans-sharpening/
Recently he updated his recommendations for the X-Pro2 which should be the same or dang close for the X-T2.
Pete has the following recommendations as a starting point:
Amount = 40
Radius = 0.8
Detail = 80
Masking = 0
They've worked well for me. It's easy to get the "wormy look" by oversharpening.
Martin Evening recently wrote an article and had the following suggestion for Fuji X-Trans as:
Amount = 45
Radius = 0.9
Detail = 15
Luminance NR = 35
Martin Evening's recent article was about CaptureOne vs Lightroom and can be downloaded here"
http://4bcokm12bvu948gi7312gnab.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/Lightroom%20vs%20Capture%20One%20Pro.pdf
So far I think Pete Bridgwood's recommendations work best for me. On high ISO shots I will also use some masking at around 50.
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It's worth playing with the settings to find out what works with your images.
For processing out of LR this works for me:
Amount =25
Radius =0.8 to 1
Detail = 84
Masking usually zero
NR off
Then I send the exported tiff file to Topaz Detail III, setting "overall detail light II" with deblur = 16 and the layer opacity about 40%.
Then if foliage is not the subject I can mask it out to take advantage of the so-called Lightroom "painterly" look.
David
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When you say wormy, what do you mean? Talking to a few people it seems common to apply 100% Detail to XTrans images (is that because of Pete Bridgwood's advice?) and I wonder if that's really such a good starting point for X-T2 images. At that level I see bits of "debris" on the lighter side of high contrast edges, and I'm finding a better starting point is 90 / 1 / 25 / 60.
Wormy on pine needles and other leaves not close up but in the distance. I call it the plastic look myself. It's also easy to see on details on rocks like lichen where the finer details seem to just get smoothed over to the effect you get a over hardened edge on certain parts of a subject and in other area no details t all.
On portraits and close ups I don't see the same problem. LR renders out very well.
Paul C
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For those who follow Pete Bridgwood here's his article on how he processed in Lr and printed a 30"x20" landscape photo shot with the X-Pro2. He even allows you to download the file to play with if you don't have the new sensor.
http://petebridgwood.com/wp/2016/02/x-pro2-render-my-raw/#more-1801
I'm anxiously waiting for him to share insights on the X-T2.
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It's worth playing with the settings to find out what works with your images.
For processing out of LR this works for me:
Amount =25
Radius =0.8 to 1
Detail = 84
Masking usually zero
NR off
Then I send the exported tiff file to Topaz Detail III, setting "overall detail light II" with deblur = 16 and the layer opacity about 40%.
Then if foliage is not the subject I can mask it out to take advantage of the so-called Lightroom "painterly" look.
David
David, that sounds like an interesting workflow!
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Good tips although I'm familiar with many, so far none really worked well. Wormy is a classical description so I used it not to create confusion, to my eye it looks plasticky/painterly.
I'll try some of the new settings but I think LR is limited in what it can do.
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I was of course familiar with Pete's article (though thanks for Martin's) and he gives a lot of good advice, but I'd not looked so closely at so many XTrans files as in the last week. I'm just not that convinced by the 100 Detail starting point and think I like more Sharpening instead - these two sliders usually need balancing. And Masking seems under-appreciated. But it's only one week's photos (mainly architecture and people) and individual preference comes in - and I generally lean towards higher Sharpening but higher Masking.
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So far I've used the detail at 100% with masking at 10 and sharpening either left at 25 (the default) for mild sharpening or up to 39 or so for more intensive sharpening.
It doesn't seem to be working so well for the X-T2. Truth being told I was never really happy for X-T1 either but it was better than some.
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I've only been shooting with the X-T2 a couple of weeks so I'm not sure where I'll end up with Lr settings. Armand, as you say, it's different beast from the X-T1. The increase in resolution and the new processor seem to make a big difference.
For the X-T1 I created a bunch of presets for Lr derived from Pete's starting points and I was quite pleased with what I could get. Using those presets for the X-T2 simply don't produce the results I want.
I'm doing a lot of tests looking for what works with the X-T2. Pete's X-Pro2 settings are a good starting point for me so far. I've also been shooting RAW+JPEG because I'm amazed by the Fuji JPEG magic. I then use the JPEG to see what I have to do to beat it from the RAW. This has convinced me that for the sports I shoot I will be taking JPEGs. Triathlons that I photograph can result in 1000-1800 shots so good looking JPEGs can result in a huge time saver.
In a couple of days I'll be off to the NC Blue Ridge mountains for a week of mostly landscape photography. That will give me a lot of work from which I will hopefully refine my Lr settings.
P.S. I'm using the latest version of Lr CC.
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So Pete says to start with a detail of 80 and Martin says to start with a detail of 15. Wow, that's quite a difference of opinion!
Personally, my experience has been that neither of those suggestions works well for me as a starting point. I find that a detail of 80 is frequently way more than necessary and will sharpen any and all noise in the image, especially if the image was shot at anything other than base ISO.
I also find that a detail of 15 is too low, as LR wont' sharpen any fine texture. Frankly, when I start out, I'm culling first and in my first pass of culling, I'm assessing critical sharpness, so I need to see all the details.
So, I like to start with something like 35 for detail and amount around 60 or 70 so that I can see the edges clearly. Later, when I'm editing the photo, I'll adjust those settings, possibly reducing the amount. With higher ISO images or with portraits, I'll often lower the detail to 25 or 15 and with landscapes I sometimes crank up the detail to 40 or 50. After 50, LR implement deconvolution, which just doesn't seem necessary to me with my X-T2. My X-T2 images are already very sharp by detail of 40 or 50. (In contrast, my Nikon D800, which had an AA filter seemed to benefit much more from higher detail settings.)
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Thanks for sharing your experiences and workflow. It helps me and hopefully others as I look for approaches for the X-T2. I hope more people share their experiences and settings.
It may be that Pete and Martin have different goals. Pete seems more focused on the final print and Martin, in his article, on replicating the look that people get with Capture One.
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So Pete says to start with a detail of 80 and Martin says to start with a detail of 15. Wow, that's quite a difference of opinion!
You need to add in the Sharpening values. Pete goes low, Martin higher, which isn't surprising - higher Sharpening tends to lead to lower Detail and vv.
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Regarding masking in Lightroom sharpening... the above recommendations of 0 masking seem unusual to me. FWIW, I usually run the masking slider up until I've not sharpened large open areas, eg sky, and try to do proper "edge sharpening." Are others using zero masking and if so, why?
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Regarding masking in Lightroom sharpening... the above recommendations of 0 masking seem unusual to me. FWIW, I usually run the masking slider up until I've not sharpened large open areas, eg sky, and try to do proper "edge sharpening." Are others using zero masking and if so, why?
+1 IMO, every file needs at least minimal masking to keep from introducing weirdness somewhere, e.g. blue skies, and broad areas of facial skin.
Rand
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Regarding masking in Lightroom sharpening... the above recommendations of 0 masking seem unusual to me. FWIW, I usually run the masking slider up until I've not sharpened large open areas, eg sky, and try to do proper "edge sharpening." Are others using zero masking and if so, why?
I usually leave masking at zero because either the subject matter has little skin/sky or I'm not printing large enough for artefacts to show. Large prints with a lot of sky are another matter.
Furthermore, if I've used LR for the raw conversion I use a low amount on the sharpening slider and follow up with deconvolution sharpening in Photoshop. Then that layer is carefully masked in a way not possible with the mask slider in LR.
YMMV. For my part, this is the first step for the "look" I'm after with the Fuji images. The files from the X-T1 have a sort of malleability I haven't seen with other cameras. The result is hard to describe. Lot of detail but a sort ethereal colour.
I hope to buy an X-T2 next month and it will be interesting to see if this workflow still is applicable, or it's back to square one.
David
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David, I think you'll truly enjoy the X-T2. I think mine is a big move up from my X-T1 and I loved that one. As far a Lr processing and especially sharpening goes it seems we're all on the learning curve.
I do hope we continue to share experiences and thoughts.
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I do hope we continue to share experiences and thoughts.
Likewise. I've had the most tremendous amount of fun with photography, but the X-T1 has been the most fun with any camera I've owned.
David
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As I take more and more shots it appears to me that Pete Bridgwood's settings are indeed suspect. He did warn he was using a pre-production X-Pro2 camera with pre-production firmware.
Tonight I worked on shots from my wooded backyard. Spider webs, yard art, deciduous and conifer trees and tonight the settings that looked most natural to me are:
Amount - 20
Radius - 0.8
Detail - 40
Masking - 50
Tomorrow may yield different results as I continue to learn.
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Thanks for posting your settings. I just got back from a 6 day trip for fall color and have yet to process any of my images so I will get a lot of experience over the next couple of weeks, so I will try to add to the sharpening thread.
I also got my RRS l-plate yesterday, another well made article, a bit thicker than the previous X-T1 plate so it acts a little like an extension, it looks like they made it thicker to accommodate a quick release strap system. The vertical component of the l-plate is adjustable, you can set the distance from the camera body. The plate is nicely beveled so it does not interfere with the lcd in any position. Expensive but really nicely made.
Alan
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Interesting to see how different Fuji's and Sony's design decisions are... I'm a Fuji shooter (X-Pro 2, soon to add an X-T2 replacing an X-T1 backup body), and I love Fuji's full set of quasi-mechanical controls - they are all feeding into the computer, but they are made to look and feel like mechanical controls of old. For some reason, Fuji ALSO uses a full set of digital controls on the SAME camera (an X-Pro 2 has dual command dials and four arrow buttons, despite having dedicated controls for Shutter Speed, Aperture, Exposure Compensation and ISO plus a joystick to move the AF point). The X-T2 adds dedicated controls for drive and metering mode (I count SEVEN dedicated control points (admittedly, including the aperture ring on the lens) - WHAT is left to use the digital buttons and dials for? You can control the whole camera without ever using a non-dedicated control (well, other than 1/3 stops of shutter speed). It has menus, but really only for setup!
In contrast, the new Sony a6500 (an X-T2 with an E-mount and IBIS, for all practical purposes), has only 1.5 dials, none of them dedicated. There's one nice dial on the top deck plus one really lousy one shared with the four-way controller on the back. You can't even control all the basic exposure variables (aperture and shutter plus ISO, or one of them plus exposure comp and ISO) at once. The old NEX-7 actually did better - the extra top dial meant that you had your two primary variables on nice top dials, with ISO on the very mushy rear dial - not as nice as a bunch of dedicated controls, but very usable. The A7 series has a dedicated exposure compensation dial, but the small front and rear main dials don't get great reviews (they're similar to Fuji's, but you don't need them on a Fuji, because shutter and aperture have dedicated controls)..
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WHAT is left to use the digital buttons and dials for? You can control the whole camera without ever using a non-dedicated control (well, other than 1/3 stops of shutter speed). It has menus, but really only for setup!
I turn off most of the function buttons and especially the 4-way controller -- otherwise I can inadvertently change settings while out shooting.
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Interesting to see how different Fuji's and Sony's design decisions are... I'm a Fuji shooter (X-Pro 2, soon to add an X-T2 replacing an X-T1 backup body), and I love Fuji's full set of quasi-mechanical controls - they are all feeding into the computer, but they are made to look and feel like mechanical controls of old. For some reason, Fuji ALSO uses a full set of digital controls on the SAME camera (an X-Pro 2 has dual command dials and four arrow buttons, despite having dedicated controls for Shutter Speed, Aperture, Exposure Compensation and ISO plus a joystick to move the AF point). The X-T2 adds dedicated controls for drive and metering mode (I count SEVEN dedicated control points (admittedly, including the aperture ring on the lens) - WHAT is left to use the digital buttons and dials for? You can control the whole camera without ever using a non-dedicated control (well, other than 1/3 stops of shutter speed). It has menus, but really only for setup!
In contrast, the new Sony a6500 (an X-T2 with an E-mount and IBIS, for all practical purposes), has only 1.5 dials, none of them dedicated. There's one nice dial on the top deck plus one really lousy one shared with the four-way controller on the back. You can't even control all the basic exposure variables (aperture and shutter plus ISO, or one of them plus exposure comp and ISO) at once. The old NEX-7 actually did better - the extra top dial meant that you had your two primary variables on nice top dials, with ISO on the very mushy rear dial - not as nice as a bunch of dedicated controls, but very usable. The A7 series has a dedicated exposure compensation dial, but the small front and rear main dials don't get great reviews (they're similar to Fuji's, but you don't need them on a Fuji, because shutter and aperture have dedicated controls)..
I don't know about usability but the Sony does bring many things to the table that are competitive or are superior to Fuji. Where I think the difference is and why I have no desire for the Sony is the lenses. Fuji has almost all that I need. I would really like a 16-70/85 F4 WR OIS for backpacking purposes but otherwise I'm practically covered. I might get a prime there and there that I don't have a real need, more out of curiosity. If I was a macro shooter I guess the 80mm macro can't come fast enough and I hear some want faster telephoto primes.
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Do any of you use the Fuji film simulations much? If so, I've got a plugin working that reads the film simulation from the Exif and sets the corresponding Lightroom profile in the Camera Calibration tab. I've only tested it with my X-T2 but think it's promising. Anyone interested in trying it?
John
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John,
That sounds like an interesting plugin, I would be interested it in it. I usually either shoot everything in velvia or in a bw mode when shooting. Be nice to have them match what I saw in the VF before capture, I can always alter it later.
Alan
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John,
I would also be very interested in testing your plugin. One of my frustrations with lightroom for the Fuji raw files has been the automatic selection of "Adobe Standard" in Camera Calibration. I use the Mac version of Lightroom.
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John,
I would also be very interested in testing your plugin. One of my frustrations with lightroom for the Fuji raw files has been the automatic selection of "Adobe Standard" in Camera Calibration. I use the Mac version of Lightroom.
You can set other defaults with each import. Get into the edit mode in one file, set the color simulation (plus other things you want in a particular way, e.g. sharpening) then hold Alt and click on set as default (on the right bottom, under the develop panel). It will apply those settings in the future with the next import.
This plug in seems to go the extra mile though and do it on a file by file cases, real time.
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This plug in seems to go the extra mile though and do it on a file by file cases
That's right. The other day I went for a long walk and switched between various B&W emulations depending on the scene, and I also shot some as colour. Lightroom applied a custom default as you describe - making everything use my default Provia look. So I ran the plugin and each image's Profile was individually set in the Camera Calibration tab. A non-exporting keyword was also added, so I can search by film simulation.
John
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You can set other defaults with each import. Get into the edit mode in one file, set the color simulation (plus other things you want in a particular way, e.g. sharpening) then hold Alt and click on set as default (on the right bottom, under the develop panel). It will apply those settings in the future with the next import.
This plug in seems to go the extra mile though and do it on a file by file cases, real time.
Or another way is to make develop presets for the different simulations and you can have it use a preset when you import. Although John's plugin is very nice, tried it out last night on some files from a shoot. I ended up changing the film simulations at lot, tried most of them, it was nice to see the proper simulations after importation to LR. John's plugin went through and changed them all, very cool.
Alan
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After a week and a little over 500 exposures with my T2, I'm seeing excellent results, except for one scenario, where the images are corrupted. Here's an example:
https://flic.kr/p/MxZ13D
In high range lighting situations, backlit scenes or low light shots with a strong light source near the desired subject, the live view image flickers between too light, and too dark, and the resulting picture has the spots and highlight banding seen in my example. Sending the camera back (if I am the only person who has experienced this, and the coming firmware upgrade doesn't fix it) is going to be painful, so has anyone else experienced this?
scott
https://www.flickr.com/photos/133969392@N05/albums
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Hi, Scott,
Is this what the in-camera jpeg looks like? What is your dynamic range setting (DR100, DR200, DR400, or DR-Auto)? I have found odd results sometimes with anything other than DR100 (which is basically "off").
Ken
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Purchased an X-T2 last week and just had a play with the write settings.
With the raw file set to lossless compression, boost mode on (no battery grip - I like the smaller form factor), continuous shooting at 4 frames a second and with a class two card I got bored holding down the shutter after 150 shots. It may have eventually filled the buffer, but it's a bit academic. At three frames/sec I think you would fill the card. That's good enough for what I have in mind.
At present I don't have a raw converter that can read the new files. I've already paid for the new One1 Raw which comes out next month and don't really want to pay for a PhotoNinga upgrade yet, so I may try RawTherapee, which has had good reports once you get over the learning curve. But that applies to them all really.
David
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@Ken Bennett -- no, not using JPEGs. I develop from raw files in Capture One (can't use the compressed raw format, but that's OK. I compress a day's shooting as a single directory once they are processed.) I did try the 100, 200, 400 DR settings when I was shooting jpegs on the X-Pro2 and didn't see much value there. Since I don't save JPEGs, I only see the small jpeg that shows in the viewfinder and back screen, and once or twice I have seen the dots there as well -- only in very low light situations.
scott
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Scott that is odd. Was the image way underexposed and lightened in processing? I saw something similar with an Fuji raw but that was over 4 years ago and have not seen it since. It was a bug in the Capture One raw converter for the X-Pro1 but that was resolved a long time ago. Have you tried a different raw converter? Even a trial version should give you an answer if it is the raw conversion. Many raw converter will read the dynamic range setting in the exif and process it accordingly, which is one reason I always leave it at 100%. Much like the lens profiles are embedded in the EXIF and applied, with LR you cannot disable that, but you can with C1.
Alan
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No, I have gotten the sparkly dots in both outdoor bright settings and indoor mixed lighting, always with a fair range of light levels in the picture. I'm just shooting the raw frame, not keeping a jpeg or setting parameters like DR. Highlight tone is -1, shadow tone is +1, to get a little more range out of the viewfinder, which I find rather contrasty (I am used to X-Pro2 and Leica M finders). I have opened a repair ticket with Fuji.
scott
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Scott, just curious which metering mode are you using when you get these results?
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X-T2 Sharpening again.
I've been using Pete Bridgewood's settings with by X-E2, but I just got an X-T2 and after a bit of fiddling I settled on a different sharpening approach, for one particular photo anyway. The image was a deer, not quite sharp (100-400 with TC handheld...) so it seemed like I needed to push the sharpening to give the apperance of a sharp image if that makes sense. Deer fills centre 2/3 of the frame after cropping a bit.
The following settings look oversharpened when zoomed in, pretty nasty with all sorts of worms etc etc. But when viewed full screen on a 27" monitor these settings give a considerably better result than Pete Bridewood's, Martin Evening's or Ron's in post 167. To my eyes the fur and eye looks sharp(er) with more contrast, without obvious artifacts. I'll print it so presumably the oversharpening will be even less relevant, and I guess (hope!) will produce a better print.
Amount - 29 - higher than this quickly got nastier
Radius - 2.4
Detail - 100 - moving down to 80 made little difference
Masking - 0 - I initially had it around 70 but it didn't seem to make much difference
Other NR settings at 0
After writing all that, I noticed that main difference here seems to be Radius. The fur seems to benefit from a much higher radius than usual. Or maybe because the image wasn't quite sharp?
I've no idea whether this works with other images, e.g. ones that are properly in focus to start with (!), or other non-furry subject matter. And others might have better eyes than me of course. Views and suggestions welcome. Happy to send the image if anyone wants a play.
Cheers,
Scott
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Scott, just curious which metering mode are you using when you get these results?
Shooting in low light, I got sparkles in the viewfinder and on the image when using center-weighted. I switched to spot metering for a bit, and didn't have them. Same thing outside, switching exposure mode from one to another plausible setting ended a session with some sparkles. It may be that this happens when I have just switched on, but it can stay that way for several shots. For the most part, I use center-weighted, not multipoint or overall average.
scott
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Scott, thanks for sharing your experiences.
After my post on sharpening settings I've now processed a few hundred more photos. My approach now is to use those settings as a default applied during import into LR. In many cases they are sufficient but in others there is more work required. My observation now is that sharpening is very dependent on the subject and the lighting. For final looks I resort to 2:1 viewing to judge the sharpening. It's easy for me to overdo sharpening with the higher resolution of the X-T2. I find this is especially true if adding various forms of contrast enhancements.
Someday perhaps Adobe will figure out how to actually demosais and sharpen X-Trans files to everyone's satisfaction.
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Shooting in low light, I got sparkles in the viewfinder and on the image when using center-weighted. I switched to spot metering for a bit, and didn't have them. Same thing outside, switching exposure mode from one to another plausible setting ended a session with some sparkles. It may be that this happens when I have just switched on, but it can stay that way for several shots. For the most part, I use center-weighted, not multipoint or overall average.
scott
This sounds like it might be a bug and something that might be addressed in the firmware release from Fuji that was recently delayed. Just a guess though.
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Scott, thanks for sharing your experiences.
After my post on sharpening settings I've now processed a few hundred more photos. My approach now is to use those settings as a default applied during import into LR. In many cases they are sufficient but in others there is more work required. My observation now is that sharpening is very dependent on the subject and the lighting. For final looks I resort to 2:1 viewing to judge the sharpening. It's easy for me to overdo sharpening with the higher resolution of the X-T2. I find this is especially true if adding various forms of contrast enhancements.
Someday perhaps Adobe will figure out how to actually demosais and sharpen X-Trans files to everyone's satisfaction.
Hi Ron,
That sounds good, I''ll probably start with your settings for most images. Thanks for doing the legwork there.
Just out of interest, I had some time to play around this afternoon (very rare). Various people have said that either Photoshop Smart Sharpen (I think) or Nik Sharpener give better results than Lightroom. I tried both on the deer shot I mentioned. Photoshop did indeed give much better results than any of the Lightroom settings I tried, with no worms in sight. Zoomed in to e.g. the deer's face, with a lot of photoshop sharpening applied, it looked like it had only sharpened the contrasty bits of the image and even binned some less contrasty detail - but with no artifacts other than looking a little cartoonish when zoomed close. When viewed at Fit, it looked much sharper and very natural. Very pleasingly, Photoshop didn't sharpen the grassy background too much either, whereas Lightroom did (I know local sharpening would sort that). Whilst I know Lightroom pretty well, I''m a Photoshop novice so the ease with which I obtained the results was surprising. Better to keep everything in Lightroom of course, I am lazy when it comes to workflow, but I can see myself doing this for problem images.
Nik Pre Sharpener didn't produce anywhere near as good results, but that might be my inexperience with the tool or maybe I need to use Output Sharpener as well - which starts getting a bit fussy for me.
Cheers,
Scott
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Played with more files and I have a couple of observations.
- for 24 MP you need a faster shutter speed; sounds obvious but it's one thing to know it and another when you see it in the field; granted, is not as bad as my Nikon D750 where I have serious issues getting a sharp picture at 1/FL but worse than the X-T1
- the second thing I just realized today when I shot more fall foliage is the Adobe screwed up, again; the profiles are nowhere as close as they were for X-T1. The big difference is for Velvia, on red leaves where the adobe adds a lot of magenta
- I'm not that impressed with the high ISO quality, I don't think is really better than X-T1; at least on many files
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Armand, thanks for sharing your observations.
I zoned out on shutter speed needing to be faster with the X-T2. It explains a LOT for my hand held work and I will now adjust my Auto ISO settings accordingly. I was wondering why my 18-135 often produced good results but not as high a percentage as I was getting from my X-T1.
A lot of my recent work has been on tripod. The X-T2 with the 60mm Macro can produce some very nice results as can the 10-24. I haven't shot much with the 100-400 and the X-T2 though.
With regards to high ISO I've haven't gone above 12,800 with the X-T2. It's not a stunning improvement over the X-T1 but in many cases for me it is a bit better. In some of my work the 12,800 from the X-T2 looks like 6,400 with the X-T1. That is a generalization based on limited a limited number of images and not a scientific test.
I was in the Blue Ridge and shot a lot of landscape and foliage and processed in Provia rather than Velvia. The work I've shot that looked good in Velvia was always quite small. I typically process Provia in Lr and then if I need to work on the color it's off to PS or use Topaz Clarity.
What's up for me when time permits is to see how well Topaz Detail 3 and Topaz Denoise 6 work with the X-T2 files.
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This sounds like it might be a bug and something that might be addressed in the firmware release from Fuji that was recently delayed. Just a guess though.
Feels that way to me, too. I had sparkle problems in about four of 260 shots in weak light last night at a wedding with lots of dark suits, always just after switching the camera on. This camera is too good to send back and lose for a month or so, so I am hoping for a firmware fix.
Scott K
PS -- per a suggestion on another forum -- I had set the dust-shaker to be ON at startup as well as ON at shutdown. I set it OFF for both and made a few test shots just after startup in high DR situations without seeing the noise sparkle problem. So I'm back to the default, which is dust removal only at shutdown, an d haven't seen this problem recently. Is anyone else a belt-and-suspenders type with dust removal set on both ends of a session, and if so, do you see my problem? That might be the answer.
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Played with more files and I have a couple of observations.
- for 24 MP you need a faster shutter speed; sounds obvious but it's one thing to know it and another when you see it in the field; granted, is not as bad as my Nikon D750 where I have serious issues getting a sharp picture at 1/FL but worse than the X-T1
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Boy I sure rediscovered this last week shooting some cars in a museum with wide open apertures..... The xt2 is a nice improvement with a nice wake up call to improve one's technique.
Alan
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Can you all elaborate on the faster shutter speeds required by 24MP sensors. Though you all seem to agree this is an obvious need, this is my first 24MP camera and am learning the ins and outs.
I have had the X-T1 for a couple of years and have absolutely loved the results from it and have no problem getting incredibly sharp images. I seldom have to visit the details panel. My first forays with the X-T2 were disappointing, after all of the hype my images all looked much softer than the T1. I took to the garage to set up a controlled shoot between the 2 cameras and found that on a tripod the they are about equal. Wide open the 35mm 1.4 with the 24MP is definitely softer which I attribute to the smaller photocells challenging the lenses ability to resolve the image. Once stopped down a bit things cleared markedly.
I'd really like to get dialed in on this and any input is appreciated.
Thanks,
Morey
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Wide open the 35mm 1.4 with the 24MP is definitely softer which I attribute to the smaller photocells challenging the lenses ability to resolve the image. Once stopped down a bit things cleared markedly.
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That shouldn't be. Maybe at pixel level but resized at the same size the one from X-T2 should be sharper, even if not by much.
Can you all elaborate on the faster shutter speeds required by 24MP sensors. Though you all seem to agree this is an obvious need, this is my first 24MP camera and am learning the ins and outs.
The X-T1 has a very well behaved shutter and with the 16MP you can get away with a shutter speed of 1/focal length (with non stabilized lenses) or even less and get sharp pictures.
When you increase the MP and add a different shutter which goes to 1/8000 vs 1/4000 in X-T1 that 1/FL is the minimum shutter speed and often you will need faster shutter speeds.
What looked sharp in X-T1 at 1/FL might require 1/1.2-1.5FL in X-T2. Add a mirror as in my Nikon D-750 and 24MP and I will need 1/1.5-2FL to get a reasonably sharp picture. Keep in mind this is at the pixel level, once you downsize most of the difference should go away.
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Are you saying that the X-T2 has less well behaved shutter? I doubt that very much. And there is no mirror, I understand mirror flap and using lock-up to eliminate it. I'm curious as to what causes this syndrome. Is this a result of smaller and smaller photosites on the sensor? Everything around the sensor is just a little bit, maybe a lot, better. The sensor is the same size. The only thing that is different is the smaller photosites. If we get a 36MP sensor in the X-T3 then we may have to use 1/2FL? I was very happy with 16MP, not sure I'm liking the direction higher resolution is taking me.
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I don't know for sure but considering it goes to 1/8000 vs 1/4000 it might be less dampened.
That exposure rule applies if you want all 24MP; if you downsize back to 16MP the shutter rule should be the same as X-T1 (if the shutter by itself is not that different).
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Are you saying that the X-T2 has less well behaved shutter? I doubt that very much. And there is no mirror, I understand mirror flap and using lock-up to eliminate it. I'm curious as to what causes this syndrome. Is this a result of smaller and smaller photosites on the sensor? Everything around the sensor is just a little bit, maybe a lot, better. The sensor is the same size. The only thing that is different is the smaller photosites. If we get a 36MP sensor in the X-T3 then we may have to use 1/2FL? I was very happy with 16MP, not sure I'm liking the direction higher resolution is taking me.
I think the shutter is well behaved. What I think is there is more resolution and basically just need to have better technique. I think the greater detail and the great optics, it just shows up more. I don't see it as a problem, but a reminder to be more careful and use better technique. I really like the XT2 and also the XT1 and all of my previous Fuji cameras. They are a joy to use, make photography a lot of fun and make it very intuitive to take pictures. I think when the interface is less intrusive the image making is more fun and easier. The tool is no longer the problem, the operator is in full control.... :D
Alan
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I think the shutter is well behaved. What I think is there is more resolution and basically just need to have better technique. I think the greater detail and the great optics, it just shows up more.
I had the same issue when I got the Canon 5Ds -- shutter speeds that were no problem hand held with the 5D3 suddenly gave me all kinds of obvious camera movement blur. I solved that by treating the 5Ds as my "medium format" system, I shoot it locked down on a tripod for landscapes, etc., or in the studio when I need the resolution.
I have honestly not noticed as significant an issue with moving from the XT1 and X Pro 1 to the XT2 and X Pro 2 sensors.
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Surely high resolution cameras only make movement blur more noticeable because they have the resolution to allow it to be seen whilst lower resolution cameras don't have the resolution to allow you to see it. I'd assume that if you take a high resolution picture that displays blur and resize it to that of the lower res picture which doesn't the high res image would then magically not display the blur?
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I don't know for sure but considering it goes to 1/8000 vs 1/4000 it might be less dampened.
the speed of focal plane shutter blade's movement depends on x-sync... X-T1 = 1/180, X-T2 = 1/250 ... more impact to dampen and correct me if I am wrong but Fuji dSLM still don't have EFCS
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resize it to that of the lower res picture which doesn't the high res image would then magically not display the blur?
I suppose so. But that really isn't the point. The message is that the X-T2 is incredibly sharp, I think this is more than likely always an assessment of the SOOC JPG files which have the in-camera X-Processor Pro sharpening applied to them. It seems the default LR 25/1.0/25 Sharpening settings are not as effective with the new 24MP files. This may also be an artifact of the LR demosaicing of X-Tran RAW files, if this were true though I'd expect to see the same results with the 16MP files.. the pattern has not changed. But I don't, so I don't think this applies.
I'm off to shoot some RAW+JPG shots and do some comparisons to get a grasp of how far off the LR default sharpening is from the SOOC X-Processor Pro sharpening. I have not done this yet. I have not changed any of the in-camera JPG adjustments so this should be a true SOOC comparison. It may be part of Fuji's whole faster, better, focusing solution is to ratchet up the sharpening in the JPG processor.
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Here is the results of the test shoot today. The X-T1 with the 18-55 and the X-T2 with the 55-200, both set to 55mm. I know it would have been better to use the same lens on each camera, but I'm not a fan of switching lenses in the field. Settings on both: ISO 200, f10, Auto SS.
X-T2 JPG 1-1 processed in camera
(http://photos.morey.behrens.name/img/s5/v123/p849643481.png)
X-T2 RAF 1-1 LR Default Sharpening, Provia Camera Calibration profile
(http://photos.morey.behrens.name/img/s11/v33/p680970891.png)
The LR processed image doesn't quite live up to the JPG but there is not a lot of difference. However the big difference is when we look at the X-T1 image below. This is what I am used to and the X-T2 images just seem soft compared to it. It is SOOC JPG.
(http://photos.morey.behrens.name/img/s1/v48/p556692154.png)
The X-T1 JPG is significantly sharper and what I am used to getting consistently from the camera.
Is anyone else seeing this much of a difference between their X-T1 and X-T2 images?
I'm beginning to think I have a bad copy.
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Here is the results of the test shoot today.
All I see is "Content Protected by Owner"...
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How about now?
My first time including images in a post... Permissions in Zenfolio are Visible to Everyone.
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How about now?
Works now, thank you -- but only after I hit Ctrl-F5 (clear browser cache).
(simply reloading the page did not help)
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"I know it would have been better to use the same lens on each camera,"
You can't judge the cameras this way.
Same lens, shutter, ƒ stop, iso, focus point, processing software (either in camera or lightroom.
Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.
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I know. My original intent was to see how far off the LR Sharpening was from the In-Camera - just in the X-T2 - and I guess I proved that it is not that far off. I threw the X-T1 image in as an indication of what I'm seeing across my lenses. I'll do the proper comparison...
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What mdelrossi said.
It's hard to judge with images posted on the web, but it looks like firstly there is a contrast difference more than a sharpness one.
Secondly, I wouldn't use LR to pull detail out of an X-Trans file.
David
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The Adobe Lr default sharpening settings for X-T1 and X-T2 are notoriously inferior IMHO.