Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: kipdent on June 01, 2006, 12:12:55 am

Title: H2 article
Post by: kipdent on June 01, 2006, 12:12:55 am
I've just finished reading Michael's post on the Hassy H2. I couldn't resist opening this topic since it has been bothering me for months, and Michael's article was enough of a nudge to get me to write.

Has it occurred to anyone how strange it is that the Rollei 6000 series hasn't cleaned up in this market, especially with digital backs? I purchased a 6008i in 2002, mostly as a result of Michael's posts about the wonderful performance of this camera and its lenses. And wonderful it was, producing images that remain the best and favorite I've done. However, once the siren song of digital mesmerized me, I sold the whole kit for a Canon 1Ds (first iteration) and have been disappointed ever since. I miss the astonishing sharpness and non-digital look of prints that the Rollei produced, and as a result, I have wanted to get back onto MF. But losing money "twice" is just too painful for me right now (and not practical). In any event, when one looks at the dwindling MF choices today, I'm shocked at how little press the Rollei system gets. Just consider what's going for it:

- 6X6 format with outstanding ergonomics
- fully automatic operation with built-in motordrive and impressively accurate metering
- Zeiss AND Schneider glass choices
- leaf shutter lenses with 1/1000 speed available, with flash sync across entire range
- built like a tank
- modern digital backs available, up to the current state of the art 39MP (but only from Imacon)
- somewhat more reasonable pricing (no $2K film backs here!), especially on the used market
- paper manual included     (Had to slip that in)

Seriously, though, I can't really think of another MF platform that has ALL of these attributes--and yet, most people talk only of the other (and I think "compromised") platforms as logical choices. And I don't just mean Michael. Even Phase One continues to support a discontinued camera, the excellent Contax 645, instead of a currently still-in-business camera like the Rollei 6008AF! I just don't get it.

An excuse that many potential customers and digital back vendors give, including Phase One, is that "Rollei only sells well in Europe." So? How big is this market anyway? It seems to me supporting this camera (both as users supporting good photography and as vendors of digital backs) would make good business sense. For example, I'd be surprised if the investment Phase One or Leaf would have to make to create a fitting for the Rollei back would be insignificant.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts about this excellent system with this knowledgable group, if only to get it off my chest. I know it probably sounds like I work for Rollei or something, but trust me--I don't even own one anymore, but I want to!

I look forward to reading any feedback this elicits...
Title: H2 article
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 01, 2006, 01:01:52 am
Hi there,

I have always considered the Rollei 6008 as one possible option, but various - probably unfounded - rumours on quality issues as well as a very high price in Japan have prevented me from becoming concrete about it.

It appears to be a very tempting product indeed though.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: H2 article
Post by: James Godman on June 01, 2006, 02:43:30 am
Hello-

One thing that makes a viable camera system for pro use is the availabilty of rental bodies, lenses, and accessories.  The fact is that the availabilty of Rollei gear in the States is extremely limited.

However, I do love the Rollei system!
Title: H2 article
Post by: David Anderson on June 01, 2006, 05:30:23 am
A few years ago when I was getting my first medium format system I was loaned a Rollei 6008 system by the local importer to try in the studio.
I loved the look and feel of the bodies and the fast lenses, but the body I tried stopped working within a few frames.
After a quick phone call to the rep another was sent over and it too failed soon after...
I never was told what the problem was.
The whole situation put me off Rollei and I ended up with the Blad V system and never had a major problem.

This was early days for the 6008 so might have just been teething problems..
Title: H2 article
Post by: Wim van Velzen on June 01, 2006, 08:28:04 am
The only real problem Rollei has, is its marketing. I have found them to be great cameras and lenses, in a complete system.

As every other brand it has its quality problems for some things, but no more than others.

I hope to be able to buy a back for my Rollei spring 2007!
Title: H2 article
Post by: kipdent on June 01, 2006, 08:41:58 am
Great responses so far--and thanks!

I do want to state that in the four years I had the 6008i, I did not have ONE quality problem--the thing just kept working flawlessly. I was alwyas inpressed with its performance and build quality.
Title: H2 article
Post by: jecxz on June 01, 2006, 10:38:47 am
Don't mean to change the subject from the 6008i back to the H2, but I really liked the article and I would like to have read more about Michael's trouble with the 50-110 Zoom that recently fell apart (maybe I missed an update, sorry if I did).

I guess I am one of the few that use a film back with the H2. I also fall into the category of not being able to afford a $20,000+ digital back.

The usability of the H2 and the design is excellent and it is truly a pleasure to work with. As the article said, there are some firmware hickups along the way but nothing that stopped me for more than a few moments. I use this camera in the field and mostly while hiking--it's sturdy and rugged.

I imagine there is a great deal that goes into releasing a new camera: design, financing, marketing, customer support, interoperability (not only a Microsoft buz-word anymore) with other devices (such as third party backs) and pleasing a customer base. Obviously with the ever improving 35mm digital market, the MF side has increasingly looked dim to so many manufacturers, Hasselblad is no different. I think they are struggling to keep up with support and firmware fixes with limited sales. Would a drop in price help that? I don't know and obviously they don't think so (I too was shocked when they dobuled the price of the back).

Anyway, great article and please let us know about the 50-110 lens. Thanks.
Title: H2 article
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2006, 02:14:20 pm
Quote
Has it occurred to anyone how strange it is that the Rollei 6000 series hasn't cleaned up in this market, especially with digital backs?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67068\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It does not seem strange at all to me; it seems the sad but predictable continuation of Rollei's long decline.
- In digital, sensors are all in formats smaller than 645, so being 6x6 instead of 645 does not help, it just adds extra "baggage": a smaller portion of the VF image is relevant to the image recorded by the sensor, shorter focal length designs are possibly a bit harder, etc.
- In MF film, 6x6 has mostly fallen out of favor, with 645 largely taking over. Hasselblad with Fuji finally caught up with the 645 trend started by Pentax and Mamiya; Rollei never has.
- The Rollei auto-focus system is stalled at a totally insufficient two primes and one zoom. Even the 4/3 system has a larger selection of primes than Rollei AF, and still gets criticized for not having nearly enough!

Rather than thinking that Rollei's failure is "strange", I suggest that you look at the differences between Rollei and more successful systems like Hasselblad or Mamiya, or even Canon 1Ds, and try to work out what the others are doing differently that Rollei should be doing, or should have done sometime ago. And please, do not try to explain it all with excuses about good or bad advertising campaigns; Rollei has been in decline for a long time, well before digital, and the problems are far deeper than that.
Title: H2 article
Post by: pss on June 01, 2006, 02:51:39 pm
the virtual non mention a rollei everywhere is unbelievable...i have a 6008af and it is by far the best camera out there...i have owned fuji gx680 (and 645, 690) mamiya RZ, hasselblad (500, 555) and mamiya 645....the hasselblads broke down the most...by far...lenses locking up, electronics in the 555, stuck shutters, you name it...fuji, mamiyas: nothing, ever...flawless...rollei: so far: there was an issue once, now fixed, no problem..considering that this is the only camera out of all these with built in everything including spotmeter and drive and af...pretty good...the system is by far the most wide ranging and sophisticated..rollei is simply the best...yes there are no rentals in the US..i personally like to own my equipment...the last thing i rented was a film back for mamiya from samys LA...lightleak...i know why i prefer to shoot digital and why i own my stuff (thank god the client insisted on film and actually rented the back)...
i looked at the H1 when it came out, mostly because of the fuji connection and never liked anything about the camera...cheap feel, ergonomics are the worst of any camera i have ever seen, nothing is where it should be and nothing can be done without taking your eye off the finder and going through 5 of the 37 buttons (which must be the cheapest buttons anyone can find...any chinatown .99cent game or calculator has better buttons, a joke)...reports of malfunctions and lenses falling apart!!!!! (i mean come on...this is the only player left?!) and last but not least: i shoot 95% vertical, thank you and the camera is not really built to be held that way...
in many ways the H1/2 has the same problems that gave rollei a bad name 10 years ago...the early 6003s and 6008s had some funky technical problems because so much was crammed into them...the latest 6008s are the results of going through these problems and develpoment...the H1/2 is going through it right now and things are getting better, i am sure...but still not a camera i would want to shoot with...
AF on the H1/2 is slightly better then the rollei, but nowhere near SLP level..if you want to shoot running kids neither one will work for you...
2000 for a back? how about that monopoly! the rotating 645 back on the rollei is 800 and it is a technical and mechanical marvel and i am sure the hasselblad backs are outselling them 10:1 which should make them even more competitive...
the H1 is the emperor's new clothes...if it wouldn't say hasselblad on it and was hyped everywhere (TV, magazines...the 2000 for the back pays for all the free ones they passed out in what can only be described as an unprecedented marketing campaign to simply buy what is left of a dying market) nobody would buy it...
to finish off my rant: a demo rollei 6008af with phase P20 and 80PQS can be had for 11,000...or you could buy a H1 with lens and film back! for just about 9,000...hmmm
also: there are currently  several af lenses available: 50, 80,180, and one (or two?) zooms..the 90macro is coming this summer (in europe) fall in the US
Title: H2 article
Post by: awofinden on June 01, 2006, 03:12:27 pm
I don't understand why everyone doesn't use the mamiya 645 afd, in the recent review of backs by michael, the mamiya lens' outperformed the H1's also I find the mamiya lens' to have a very "pleasing" image quality on top of the sharpness and contrast charecteristics. I understand if you need the high synch speed, is that why a lot of people go for the H1?
Title: H2 article
Post by: mcfoto on June 01, 2006, 05:42:03 pm
Quote
I don't understand why everyone doesn't use the mamiya 645 afd, in the recent review of backs by michael, the mamiya lens' outperformed the H1's also I find the mamiya lens' to have a very "pleasing" image quality on top of the sharpness and contrast charecteristics. I understand if you need the high synch speed, is that why a lot of people go for the H1?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67120\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
HI
 I agree I shot a job with both the H1 150mm Aptus 22 and the Mamiya 645AFDII 150mm Aptus 22. The Mamiya was less contrasty and a little sharper. For skin tone the Mamiya glass was better. The fact is we are comparing Fuji and Mamiya in glass to be fair. However I can not justify the cost difference.
Thanks Denis
Title: H2 article
Post by: ddolde on June 01, 2006, 07:18:51 pm
Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned that the Rollei 6008AF is available with the eMotion22 (Eyelike) digital back and will soon likely be available with the newer eMotion75 (33mp) back.

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/rollei.htm#Label6008D (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/rollei.htm#Label6008D)

This should certainly be among those mentioned in "The Last Man Standing" list.
Title: H2 article
Post by: michael on June 01, 2006, 07:44:06 pm
There isn't much to add about the 50-110mm lens that fell apart on my the second day on location.

Hasselblad was very responsive and replaced the lens without question. The new lens appears to be perfect, with no problems at all.

I have been contacted by several people who also had a problem with their 50-110mm zooms falling apart. Some of them were treated well by Hasselblad, others not. There doesn't seem to be a corporate policy on this issue, with each instance treated differently by the company.

Michael
Title: H2 article
Post by: kipdent on June 01, 2006, 10:57:44 pm
Quote
Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned that the Rollei 6008AF is available with the eMotion22 (Eyelike) digital back and will soon likely be available with the newer eMotion75 (33mp) back.

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/rollei.htm#Label6008D (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/rollei.htm#Label6008D)

This should certainly be among those mentioned in "The Last Man Standing" list.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67127\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Doug--thanks for the heads up on the Eyelike backs for the 6008. Now with the Imacon backs there are some choices. I think Rollei just might make a stand now! I agree with the member (since I work for a very large IT company that makes some marketing mistakes of its own) who said Rollei's current market penetration is largely its own fault. Looking only at the product, it's hard to argue with their ergonomics, image quality, lens choices and overall cost of ownership. I also agree with you that they should be mentioned more prominently as one of the "last standing" manufacturers.
Title: H2 article
Post by: BJNY on June 02, 2006, 12:29:13 am
Eighteen months must have passed since I first contacted Rollei directly, and through Jenoptik as well with the following suggestion (previously posted at the RG Forums):

Alpa, Cambo & Horseman make wide-angle cameras for architectural use.
Arca Swiss, Cambo, Linhof, Plaubel, & Sinar make mini view cameras.
Mamiya (RZ67) and Fuji (GX680) make medium format cameras.
What do they have in common?
Answer: Their products accept digital backs in the "universal" Hasselblad V-mount.

I'm advocating that Rollei manufactures a 6008 "V" or "D" camera body that accepts Hasselblad V-mount digital backs DIRECTLY.
No more questions about rotating backs a.k.a. vertical/horizontal orientation.
No more concerns about upgrade path since every brand's latest digital backs are available immediately in V-mount.
With Schneider/Zeiss glass, wouldn't all this make the Rollei a much more viable camera platform?
Title: H2 article
Post by: AlaBill on June 02, 2006, 10:14:32 am
I have a 6008i which I absolutely loved when shooting film, but for me now the digital domain is just too attractive from an ease of use issue. I have never mastered scanning film.

The problem for me with Rollei is I am sincerely worried that they will be around in the next few years. It's the small things. I'm have been trying to get a new diopter for the 45 degree finder as my eyes have changed and I have been unable find one. Dealers here tell me it would have to be special ordered from Germany and no one wants the hassle.

I really would like a digital back for the 6008, would even buy a new AF model, but want to buy something other that the 16 megapixel older back from Phase.

They have an opportunity now but they are doing nothing here in the US to calm fears of owners such as me. What a shame.
Title: H2 article
Post by: pss on June 02, 2006, 03:03:37 pm
Quote
Eighteen months must have passed since I first contacted Rollei directly, and through Jenoptik as well with the following suggestion (previously posted at the RG Forums):

Alpa, Cambo & Horseman make wide-angle cameras for architectural use.
Arca Swiss, Cambo, Linhof, Plaubel, & Sinar make mini view cameras.
Mamiya (RZ67) and Fuji (GX680) make medium format cameras.
What do they have in common?
Answer: Their products accept digital backs in the "universal" Hasselblad V-mount.

I'm advocating that Rollei manufactures a 6008 "V" or "D" camera body that accepts Hasselblad V-mount digital backs DIRECTLY.
No more questions about rotating backs a.k.a. vertical/horizontal orientation.
No more concerns about upgrade path since every brand's latest digital backs are available immediately in V-mount.
With Schneider/Zeiss glass, wouldn't all this make the Rollei a much more viable camera platform?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
the hasselblad V mount is virtually dead, especially for digital backs..no communication with anything..not even the 555ELD can talk to digibacks...
instead of looking elsewhere, how about the rollei x-act...amazing camera accepts any LF lens and all rollei lenses (and i believe many more via adapters)
Title: H2 article
Post by: pss on June 02, 2006, 03:18:24 pm
Quote
I have a 6008i which I absolutely loved when shooting film, but for me now the digital domain is just too attractive from an ease of use issue. I have never mastered scanning film.

The problem for me with Rollei is I am sincerely worried that they will be around in the next few years. It's the small things. I'm have been trying to get a new diopter for the 45 degree finder as my eyes have changed and I have been unable find one. Dealers here tell me it would have to be special ordered from Germany and no one wants the hassle.

I really would like a digital back for the 6008, would even buy a new AF model, but want to buy something other that the 16 megapixel older back from Phase.

They have an opportunity now but they are doing nothing here in the US to calm fears of owners such as me. What a shame.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67166\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
looks like the emotion bundle is made for you...just out of curiosity: why do you need more then the "old" 16mipx P20...which is as old as any P series back...
the need for more pixels is a total marketing hype...anyone who has shot with the 12mpix canon 5D will agree that the files are virtually identical to the 16mpix 1DsmkII...the difference is not visible in print...one lets you crop a little more, neither are comparable to the P20 (even cropped)...i agree that the latest (P45, leaf75, emotion75) clearly give you more resolution (actually pretty much the same as 2 P20 files stitched), but they are also almost 3x as much (and shoot much slower and provide filesizes that make HD manufacturers drool)...for landscape and fineart in 30x40 prints...no question, the latest backs replace 4x5, but for everything else...and if you do landscape i would still recommend the P20 with the x-act stitched...a bigger "negative/film area" and still half the price (cameras included)...
Title: H2 article
Post by: AlaBill on June 02, 2006, 09:18:13 pm
To be totally truthful, I'm not sure I need more that the 16 megapixels.I am seriously considering the bundle from Rollei. I would have already sprung for the bundle if I felt them secure in the near future. I don't.
Title: H2 article
Post by: kipdent on June 02, 2006, 09:58:19 pm
Quote
To be totally truthful, I'm not sure I need more that the 16 megapixels.I am seriously considering the bundle from Rollei. I would have already sprung for the bundle if I felt them secure in the near future. I don't.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67225\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As I alluded to in the first post that started this thread, I think Rollei's popularity in the United States is a false way of gauging their overall health. There are many products that do well in the combined global market that don't do quite as well in the U.S., but that doesn't mean the manufacturer is struggling. My belief is that since Rollei does quite well in other regions, there should be no fear of their future compared to the other surviving MF players. Add to that the outstanding nature of the product, and I think it's a solid choice. That 16MP Phase One bundle is a screaming deal, too--although I'm salivating at what Rollei might unveil at Photokina this fall since partnerships seem to be driving the MF digital market right now.
Title: H2 article
Post by: pss on June 03, 2006, 01:29:19 pm
Quote
As I alluded to in the first post that started this thread, I think Rollei's popularity in the United States is a false way of gauging their overall health. There are many products that do well in the combined global market that don't do quite as well in the U.S., but that doesn't mean the manufacturer is struggling. My belief is that since Rollei does quite well in other regions, there should be no fear of their future compared to the other surviving MF players. Add to that the outstanding nature of the product, and I think it's a solid choice. That 16MP Phase One bundle is a screaming deal, too--although I'm salivating at what Rollei might unveil at Photokina this fall since partnerships seem to be driving the MF digital market right now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
rollei is actually very solid, they are in good shape...they are a very small company (very small compared to the fame of their brand) and actually the MF cameras are now Franke&Heidecke and the rest (lenses, digicams,..) is rollei (i believe)....i don't think that they can come out with big surprises, but they have been a very steady leader in MF innovation for decades (integrated winders and meters and AF)
the rollei/phase partnership ended because phase made rollei buy a certain number of backs, becuase phase had to make the backs to fit the rollei, rollei (being a small company) did not really like the fact that they had to buy so many in advance, but it gave rollei the chance to cut the price to make this such a deal (even better now)...because of the rollei backside, the phase backs cannot be rotated (they tried to fit a phase P25 into the rollei 645 back but it did not work, phase would have had to re-design the whole housing...)
which is where sinar and the emotion comes in...rollei contacted sinar, they said no problem (their backs already work with the rollei) they buy the backs as they go along (which is why the deal is not so great) but there is a straight upgrade path...if you buy the emotion 22? you can upgrade to the 75 for the difference in price...
the P20/6008af bundle shoots 45-50! frames a minute at 16bit 50-400asa (800 half size) and can be used as a point&shoot (completely automatic with 3 metering modes and AF) at a price comparable to the "canonkiller" mamiya DSLR which cannot compete with the rollei...for the expansive system please refer to ebay and several dealers....
i really don't know why people are afraid...there must be more rolleis  out there then mamiyas...they have been selling at a premium for decades and i never really heard stories (other then some technical problems with some early 6000s, i guess you can never get rid of a reputation...) of a bad product...and not to badmouth hasselblad, but my experience (and my experience as an assistant to many bigger and smaller photographers in NY) has been everything but good...thank god for the wide hasselblad rental service, because the equipment would fail, something would always fail, most of the people i worked for (not too many actually shot hasselblad, it was mostly RZ) had to have 2 complete set-ups, because one was always at the shop...a photographer compared it to ferrari, a great, fun but not dependable car(although i never saw the fun in hasselblad)....i never saw anything mamiya fail, never...and a story like the hasselblad zoom (at what...$7000?) falling apart? actually does not surprise me...but people are afraid of what might happen to rollei...nobody says that about leica...
look at the latest news: now canon and nikon do not build film cameras anymore...this does not kill leica, the contrary...kodak and fuji cut down on film production, no problem...labs switching to more digital services, great...there will always be a market for the 4x5 or 8x10 guy out there, a very specialized niche with great little niche products (probably a little more expensive)...leica will be there, voigtlander will be there, sinar will be there, rollei will be there....hasselblad will be there as well...the same guys who invented the whole thing and kept it going...becuase the people who build it and buy it don't look at the bottom line, otherwise they would have gotten out a looooong time ago, i don't think there was ever a moment when someone said, i want to get rich, i will make cameras using only the best materials and mechanics...
Title: H2 article
Post by: ynp on June 04, 2006, 07:06:20 am
Quote
...becuase the people who build it and buy it don't look at the bottom line, otherwise they would have gotten out a looooong time ago, i don't think there was ever a moment when someone said, i want to get rich, i will make cameras using only the best materials and mechanics...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67285\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree with Paul and APLA is a good example.

For more than 6 month I am a happy owner of a 6008AF with a Phase One with a P20 back. So happened that  it was not my first digital back. I have been a long time Hasselblad user and bought the eMotion22 Eyelike to supplement my 503 a year ago. It came with a V-mount adaptor and I was able to use it on my ALPA as well. Eyelike 22(Sinar) is a very solid product and after some weeks of struggling with the Eyelike capture pro software I was able to deliver good images (thank you Grant and all RG contributors for sharing your experience both with the back and software). Then a disaster happened, my son-in-law dropped my Alpa (with the back on!) while fiddling with it in the studio. I had to send it to Sinar to repare.
I live in Russia, there were no chances to fix the back in Moscow, almost zero rental market for digibacks and I was planning a trip to France to shoot an art and jewelry collection for a friend and client. I was almost ready to risk and bring my film cameras with me and even tried to rent a P25 back in Paris. They did not take me serious enough over the phone, demanded proofs of my residence in the EU. I felt fed up with been treated as a Russian crook, and after 2 days of telephone conversations I gave up and bought a Rollei 6008AF with P20db and 2 lenses in a Moscow shop. Yes, only 16m. pixels, square and no way to use on APLA. From some forum discussions I knew that I would not be able to upgrade from P20 and played with the idea that I would eventually sell it and use my trusted 503 with Eyelike and my extensive collection of glass.

Now I found myself left with 2 digital backs (eMotion came back from Switzerland with Sinar logos on it and a new screen) and P20 and Rollei. I have sold all my Hasselblad  gear and lenses and feel good. I have a reliable and modern film and digital system, fine lenses and hopes to upgrade my 22m to Sinar 75 with live video. Sinar people assured me that Rollei has future  and they will be working with Rollei together on new products. Jenoptik/Sinar/Rollei/Leica cooperation will bring new goods for Fotokina.
Yevgeny
PS
I share my studio with a commercial photographer and she has just bought her own Rollei/P20 combo and happy with her choice. She plans to use it alongside her Cannons for fashion and commercial work.
Title: H2 article
Post by: BJNY on June 04, 2006, 10:09:16 am
Quote
...there are currently  several af lenses available: 50, 80,180, and one (or two?) zooms..the 90macro is coming this summer (in europe) fall in the US

Do you have further info about the AF Macro lens,
if it will remain 90mm focal length & APO,
or will it be 100mm instead (read that a while back on photo.net)
Title: H2 article
Post by: pss on June 04, 2006, 12:48:32 pm
Quote
Do you have further info about the AF Macro lens,
if it will remain 90mm focal length & APO,
or will it be 100mm instead (read that a while back on photo.net)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
it will be the 100/3.5 symmar, my mistake...my opinion about the AF: reminds me of the old days with my nikon F4, when most of the lenses i owned were manual focus and i kept checking the focus giude in the finder..same with rollei...i don't think that AF in medium format really work (for me)...i use it more with my canon (if i use the canon) but even there i find myself having to compose around the focus points and that is way more anoying then focussing manually...rollei has some of the fastest lenses (a 80 2.0, 110 2.0, 180 2.8) so i really is not that hard...
the only camera that i thought really had it worked out was a canon (film) camera with the eye-controlled focus...it really worked well (the focus was a little slow, but it was an inexpensive consumer body), i wonder what happend to that technology? i would love to see that in the next 1Ds mkIII?
Title: H2 article
Post by: ynp on June 05, 2006, 11:25:33 am
Quote
it will be the 100/3.5 symmar,

I ordered a new 150/4 AF Tele-Xenar PQ lens which was announced a long time ago and was expected this spring. Still waiting. Now they are saying that the lens will be shipped before Fotokina.  I am not sure that Rillei has  an AF Apo-Symmar in the pipeline , it will be a nice surprise !  I agree that AF is too slow and the range of manual lenses covers all needs.
Yevgeny
Title: H2 article
Post by: 6008 shooter on July 11, 2006, 04:33:01 am
Quote
As I alluded to in the first post that started this thread, I think Rollei's popularity in the United States is a false way of gauging their overall health. There are many products that do well in the combined global market that don't do quite as well in the U.S., but that doesn't mean the manufacturer is struggling. My belief is that since Rollei does quite well in other regions, there should be no fear of their future compared to the other surviving MF players. Add to that the outstanding nature of the product, and I think it's a solid choice. That 16MP Phase One bundle is a screaming deal, too--although I'm salivating at what Rollei might unveil at Photokina this fall since partnerships seem to be driving the MF digital market right now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H2 article
Post by: 6008 shooter on July 11, 2006, 05:19:16 am
Kipdent,

I have been shooting with a Rollei 6008 Integral for the past three years, and have been quite happy with the results.  Prior to obtaining the Rollei, I tried a Hasselblad 203FE and a Contax 645, but chose to go with the Rollei 6008 platform.  What attracted me to Rollei was the availability of the fast lenses from both Schneider and Zeiss.  The 80mm 2.0 Schneider Xenotar, the Zeiss 110mm 2.0 Planar, and the 180mm 2.8 Schneider Tele Xenar are amongst my favorite lenses.  Many of the Rollei lenses made by Zeiss have the same optical formula as the Zeiss lenses for Hasselblad.  It is the bokeh that these German made lenses produce that give the images that different punch so to speak.  Furthermore, with the Rollei 6008 film inserts, I can change a roll of 120 film and be advanced to the first frame of a new roll in about 12 seconds. It would be extremely difficult to do that with any other medium format system.  

With the new Sinar emotion digital back now available with the Rollei 6008AF, digital shooters now have a tool that will compete with the best digital backs out there.  

For that person who was trying to get a diopter for a Rollei 45 degree prism, Martin at Marflex in New Jersey has them available or Robert White (www.robertwhite.co.uk) in Dorset has them available since he is now the Rollei distributor for the UK.
Title: H2 article
Post by: RicAgu on July 11, 2006, 07:53:49 pm
Ahhh the Great Rollie!

The Rollie 6008 was my first professional system out of High School.  I had Pentax 67's and the only thing that could come close was the 6008 in lens speed.  I had the 50/2.8 - 80/2.0 - 180/2.8 and other macro and long lenses.  You couldn't beat the quality of the glass and the laminar draw slide was brilliant!

My main problem was the battery was a pain in the butt with no other option.  So I had to carry around six batteries two chargers and a car charger.  Also, this was before eBay in the early mid 90's and I coudln't pick up a second body for less than $6k!  Now I could buy three bodies for that price.  They are built like tanks. but as anything with tiny electronics in it.  It will fail at some point.  Especially the way commercial shooters man handle things.

So I am on a job in Venezuela and the body just stops working.  Now this has since happened with my RZ but I always had a second body in the bag as well as with my Contax and always had two bodies of any system I used.   Other than Pentax where seven bodies were in order.  On this trip my Rollie went down in the middle of the jungle with no 35mm body or any other body with me ( I know stupid).  Major job as well for a world wide campaign shooting at Angel Falls.  So we went down to the little town and met with the local portrait guy.  What does he have?  A mint museum quality Mamiya RB set up with every lens I could want and every accs made for it.  So after some convincing (thank GOD i speak Spanish) he loaned it to me.  I left him my Rollie and came back two days later.  Prior to this experience I was not the biggest Mamiya fan.  But after that I switched to everything RZ.  Took a little getting use to, but what doesn't.  

I would LOVE to see Rollie come back.  The lenses are great!  The view finder is Awesome with prism or not.  I did try the AF version and it SUCKED!  The autofocus was slower than my GA645i.  But if they could get a rotating back on there I would consider that system.  The guys at Marflex in early 90's were awesome.

I really use the auto focus on my H1 and have discovered the custom functions that let me assign a button to autofocus,  I still use my RZ on occasion with my digital 22mp back from the H1 adapted with a plate from Eco Digital.  The H1 was the lesser of two evils and it still has yet to fail me.  I drove over to Hassy in Jersey and they did the software upgrade in about 15 minutes.  Got out of the city for a few hours and felt like I was on vacation.

Rollies marketing in the US does suck, the rental stock is non existant.  So that does make a difference.  I too like to own all my gear, but there are those rare pieces that you may want to call in for one or two days.

It would be great for a group to buy Sinar, Rollie, Lieca and combine the best of them all and make a killer system.  Instead of Sinar wasting the millions on development that I am sure they spent on that horrid Modular attempt to go after the medium format sytems.  They should have offered to work with Rollie and redevelop a new body to work with 645 chips.  If the Germans can be third in the World Cup, then I am sure they can redesign the 6008AF a bit ;-).  It could not be more expensive than an H1 set up  or the Sinar Modular system.  I am still waitiing to see what Mamiya comes out with at Photokina.

I still think that in a few years we will see some bigger chips with better ISO and noise handling but peaking at the MP wars.

Best of luck with your Rollie hunt.  They are great systems other than the battery set up.  But at least their lenses don't fall apart.  I am sure the Schneider and Ziess glass is as good for digital as the Fujacon's.  Plus if you go eMotion the dals chip is pretty damn nice!  I used the Aptus 75 and was blown away at 800.  Although Sinar only goes to 400.

Any billionairs out there that want to buy Sinar, Rollie, Leeca and Dalsa?
Title: H2 article
Post by: 6008 shooter on July 12, 2006, 05:43:18 am
The Rollei 6008 bodies use a rechargable battery that provides approximately enough power for 35-40 rolls of 120 film.  For most photo shoots, having a fully charged battery in the body and one extra fully charged battery is enough for probably most applications.  

For extreme applications where one might be away from AC power for an extended period of time, there is available from Rollei a battery pack which uses 10 standard AA batteries, or the new battery box from Rollei which uses 5 DL 123 lithium batteries.
Title: H2 article
Post by: Carl Glover on July 12, 2006, 12:43:17 pm
"But if they could get a rotating back on there I would consider that system."


They already do if you use the Sinar eMotion.

I wouldn't consider any other system and now that they do a battery charger that drains residual current before recharging you get a lot more shots, also bear in mind that the battery is powering the mirror and shutter only rather than pulling the film across the back. It lasts a lot longer before you have to change the battery.

Besides the fast lenses you also get the fast shutter speed of 1000s if you use PQS lenses.

A wonderful system!


Carl