Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: John Camp on April 27, 2016, 04:57:55 pm
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Don't want to be disrespectful, but every time I seem an article about honoring women in something, I begin to wonder if I'm reliving the 50s. Women in the arts shouldn't be a separate sub-phylum: too often, "Women artists, 1980-1990" and so on are actually code words for "Artists who aren't quite good enough to stand on their own."
The thing about women in photography is, right from the start women have not only been important, but you could make a very good argument that THEY have been dominant, and not men. Let me throw out a few names: Julia Margaret Cameron, Imogen Cunningham, Dorothea Lange, Lisette Model, Cindy Sherman, Diane Arbus, Annie Leibovitz, Margaret Bourke-White, Helen Levitt, Lee Miller, Sally Mann, Carrie Mae Weems, Annie Leibovitz, Bernice Abbott, Tina Modotti, Mary Ellen Mark, Ruth Bernhard, Nan Goldin, Francesca Woodman, Ilse Bing, Jane Brown, and I'm still forgetting a lot of them. That's just off the top of my head, and I don't know the names of lots of distinguished Asian and European women photographers. Anyone think they could come up with a list of male photographers with names as familiar as those, and work as distinguished?
If the article were called, Honoring Women Gearheads, you wouldn't have heard a thing from me; honoring women *photographers* seems a trifle patronizing.
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Don't want to be disrespectful, but every time I seem an article about honoring women in something, I begin to wonder if I'm reliving the 50s. Women in the arts shouldn't be a separate sub-phylum: too often, "Women artists, 1980-1990" and so on are actually code words for "Artists who aren't quite good enough to stand on their own."
The thing about women in photography is, right from the start women have not only been important, but you could make a very good argument that THEY have been dominant, and not men. Let me throw out a few names: Julia Margaret Cameron, Imogen Cunningham, Dorothea Lange, Lisette Model, Cindy Sherman, Diane Arbus, Annie Leibovitz, Margaret Bourke-White, Helen Levitt, Lee Miller, Sally Mann, Carrie Mae Weems, Annie Leibovitz, Bernice Abbott, Tina Modotti, Mary Ellen Mark, Ruth Bernhard, Nan Goldin, Francesca Woodman, Ilse Bing, Jane Brown, and I'm still forgetting a lot of them. That's just off the top of my head, and I don't know the names of lots of distinguished Asian and European women photographers. Anyone think they could come up with a list of male photographers with names as familiar as those, and work as distinguished?
If the article were called, Honoring Women Gearheads, you wouldn't have heard a thing from me; honoring women *photographers* seems a trifle patronizing.
Their name is legion?
I'm knackered at the moment - should be in my bed, but spent the evening and most of tonight fighting Photoshop in an attempt to put to bed a little project I began on Saturday. If I remember in the morning, I will offer a short list of those I love. Female snappers, that is.
Rob C
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Let me throw out a few names: Julia Margaret Cameron, Imogen Cunningham, Dorothea Lange, Lisette Model, Cindy Sherman, Diane Arbus, Annie Leibovitz, Margaret Bourke-White, Helen Levitt, Lee Miller, Sally Mann, Carrie Mae Weems, Annie Leibovitz, Bernice Abbott, Tina Modotti, Mary Ellen Mark, Ruth Bernhard, Nan Goldin, Francesca Woodman, Ilse Bing, Jane Brown, and I'm still forgetting a lot of them. That's just off the top of my head, and I don't know the names of lots of distinguished Asian and European women photographers. Anyone think they could come up with a list of male photographers with names as familiar as those, and work as distinguished?
Judy Dater, Nina Raginsky, Bettina Rheims, Ellen von Unwerth, Jessie Tarbox Beals.
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Google "famous photographers" yields
Ansel Adams, HCB, Annie Leibovitz, Dorothea Lange, Alvedon, Steve McCurry, Diane Arbus, Robert Capa, Weston, Elliot Erwitt, Mary Ellen Mark, Brassaï, Helmut Newton, David Bailey, Stieglitz, Man Ray, David LaChapelle, Cecil Beaton, Margaret Bourke-White, Berenice Abott, Irving Penn, Muybridge, Weegee, Cindy Sherman, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Nick Ut, Anne Geddes, Jeff Widener, Robert Frank, Brian Duffy, Terry Richardson, Henry Fox Talbot, Jacob Riis, Lyle Owerko, Julia Margaret Cameron, Joel Meyerowitz, Martin Parr, David Hockney, Eugène Atet, Andy Warhol, Mapplethorpe, Vivian Maier, Harry Benson, Bruce Gilden, Patrick Anton, Imogen Cunningham, Paul Strand, Mark Seliger, Philippe Halsman, and Patrick Demarchelier.
No Eliot Porter? Matthew Brady? Galen Rowell? Oh well... Anyway, I count something like 40 men and 11 women. Which is not to say that it isn't patronizing, only that the numbers are not obviously the reason.
-Matt
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Let me paraphrase the Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts' words on race: "The only way to stop discrimination based on
race gender is to stop discriminating based on race gender."
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Don't want to be disrespectful, but every time I seem an article about honoring women in something, I begin to wonder if I'm reliving the 50s. Women in the arts shouldn't be a separate sub-phylum: too often, "Women artists, 1980-1990" and so on are actually code words for "Artists who aren't quite good enough to stand on their own."
You don't know Kevin very well huh? I do and I'm here to tell ya, your perception of what Kev meant to say was about 180º off base.
Kev is a rooter...he roots for people, he roots for camera makers, printer makers, paper makers, ETC! He is enthusiastic about everything (he can't help himself) so when he hit on writing about women he took his 60+ year old perspective and write about women in photography. That's about all you should read into his writing...
It's too late to to change the title...can you forgive Kev's enthusiasm?
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Too late I return to the thread, refreshed - slightly - from a reasonable sleep, but suffering still from age lag.
So lets add to the list of European dames par excellence: my personal queen of 'em all, Sarah Moon; Domiinique Issermann; Regina Relang; Chiara Samugheo; Crista Peters; Brigitte Lacombe; Jane Bown and many others I have forgotten but still know are there in the recesses of my mind.
There are many American ones too, but this is about the Europeans.
Rob
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You don't know Kevin very well huh? I do and I'm here to tell ya, your perception of what Kev meant to say was about 180º off base.
Kev is a rooter...he roots for people, he roots for camera makers, printer makers, paper makers, ETC! He is enthusiastic about everything (he can't help himself) so when he hit on writing about women he took his 60+ year old perspective and write about women in photography. That's about all you should read into his writing...
It's too late to to change the title...can you forgive Kev's enthusiasm?
Jeff, actually I can.
But expression counts too. Put it in terms of race: "I think there are many fine black photographers." And everybody who has been around since the fifties would wince. Because of course there are many fine black photographers. Don't have to say it. Saying, "Look at this -- there are many fine women photographers" comes out of the same kind of possibly good-hearted, but basically lame perception. Like we should be surprised or something. I guess what I'm saying is, I recognize that Kevin was trying to be generous, and trying to do a good thing, but it still winds up suggesting that women are a different breed somehow, and they're not. They shouldn't rise or fall because they're women, they should rise or fall on their photography. I became particularly sensitive to this problem after I went to the National Museum of Women in the Arts and came away thinking, "Jeez, what a load of crap." It was particularly embarrassing because of its nearby companion, the National Gallery, one of the best art collections in the world. The art in the women's museum included stuff from female artists who weren't in the National Gallery because they were second- and third-rate artists, or, when they were first-rate artists, the work shown was second- or third-rate examples. Women don't really need any longer to be collected together to show their strengths, and they don't really need men to point out that they have strengths, and that's particularly true in photography.
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http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/oct/13/the-lost-women-forgotten-female-photographers-brought-to-light-in-pictures
Rob C
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Jeff, actually I can.
But expression counts too. Put it in terms of race: "I think there are many fine black photographers." And everybody who has been around since the fifties would wince. Because of course there are many fine black photographers. Don't have to say it. Saying, "Look at this -- there are many fine women photographers" comes out of the same kind of possibly good-hearted, but basically lame perception. Like we should be surprised or something. I guess what I'm saying is, I recognize that Kevin was trying to be generous, and trying to do a good thing, but it still winds up suggesting that women are a different breed somehow, and they're not. They shouldn't rise or fall because they're women, they should rise or fall on their photography. I became particularly sensitive to this problem after I went to the National Museum of Women in the Arts and came away thinking, "Jeez, what a load of crap." It was particularly embarrassing because of its nearby companion, the National Gallery, one of the best art collections in the world. The art in the women's museum included stuff from female artists who weren't in the National Gallery because they were second- and third-rate artists, or, when they were first-rate artists, the work shown was second- or third-rate examples. Women don't really need any longer to be collected together to show their strengths, and they don't really need men to point out that they have strengths, and that's particularly true in photography.
+1
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Don't want to be disrespectful, but every time I seem an article about honoring women in something, I begin to wonder if I'm reliving the 50s. Women in the arts shouldn't be a separate sub-phylum: too often, "Women artists, 1980-1990" and so on are actually code words for "Artists who aren't quite good enough to stand on their own."
Couldn't agree more. Any article picking randomly just a handful of woman photographers does disservice to millions of ladies practicing fine art photography or specializing in a distinctive area. And going back to the history, already in the 19th century there were many accomplished female photographers.
Here is another random international group of not-so-well-known ladies known for their particular expertise:
Shao Hua (1938–2008), daughter-in-law of Mao Zedong photographed party celebrities, factories and army units in the 1950s
Mary Willumsen (1884–1961), who produced postcards of women in scanty clothing
Geneviève Cadieux (born 1955), captured women's facial expressions
Irina Ionesco (born 1935), erotic images of lavishly dressed women posing provocatively
Bettina Rheims (born 1952), specializing in strip-tease artists and acrobats, and stuffed animals
Astrid Kirchherr (born 1938), photographed the Beatles before they became famous
Shirin Neshat (born 1957), photos of women confronted by Islamic fundamentalism
Dianora Niccolini (born 1936), pioneer of male nude photography
Toyoko Tokiwa (born 1930), known for her depiction of the red-light district of post-occupation Yokohama, for a clientele of US servicemen
Teresa Margolles (born 1963), portraying death
Isabel Muñoz (born 1951), black-and-white pictures of the human body, toreros and dancers
Madame Yevonde (1893–1975), pioneered colour in portrait photography, including a series of guests at a party dressed as Roman and Greek gods and goddesses
Carol Beckwith (born 1945), photographer of the indigenous tribal cultures of Africa
Joan E. Biren (born 1946), with focus on lesbians and feminism (many more in this category)
Louise Arner Boyd (1887–1972), explorer who took hundreds of photographs of the Arctic
Sherrie Levine (born 1947) with a knack for appropriation photography
Anne Noggle (1922–2005), a photographer after a career as an aviator, depicted the ageing process of women
Rachel Sussman (born 1975), hunting for living organisms at least 2,000 years old
I'm not aware of any female Inuit photographers, but Michelle Valberg from Ottawa is well known for her photographs of Canada's Arctic and Inuit people
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Flor Garduño, Lynn Bianchi ...
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No to mention Yva, in Berlin, who gave Helmut Newton a two-year apprenticeship starting in 1936... at 45 Schlüterstrasse.
Rob C
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.... Any article picking randomly just a handful of woman photographers does disservice to millions of ladies practicing fine art photography...
Indeed, Les, the article would have been so much better if it listed those millions individually instead. But you are in the right track to correct it: only 999,980 or so to go ;)
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Just doing my duty.
If everybody would list twenty of their favorite female photographers, all the misconceptions would be cleared.
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Like all male conversation, it eventually ends up with tall tales of sex.
Let's all quit whilst we're ahead.
;-(
Rob
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Hi,
We have a Swedish lady shooting ice bear...
http://www.kamerabild.se/artiklar/intervjuer/naturfotograf-i-arktis
(http://www.kamerabild.se/sites/kamerabild.se/files/imported/554658.jpg?itok=AbWeXvBE)
Best regards
Erik
Couldn't agree more. Any article picking randomly just a handful of woman photographers does disservice to millions of ladies practicing fine art photography or specializing in a distinctive area. And going back to the history, already in the 19th century there were many accomplished female photographers.
Here is another random international group of not-so-well-known ladies known for their particular expertise:
Shao Hua (1938–2008), daughter-in-law of Mao Zedong photographed party celebrities, factories and army units in the 1950s
Mary Willumsen (1884–1961), who produced postcards of women in scanty clothing
Geneviève Cadieux (born 1955), captured women's facial expressions
Irina Ionesco (born 1935), erotic images of lavishly dressed women posing provocatively
Bettina Rheims (born 1952), specializing in strip-tease artists and acrobats, and stuffed animals
Astrid Kirchherr (born 1938), photographed the Beatles before they became famous
Shirin Neshat (born 1957), photos of women confronted by Islamic fundamentalism
Dianora Niccolini (born 1936), pioneer of male nude photography
Toyoko Tokiwa (born 1930), known for her depiction of the red-light district of post-occupation Yokohama, for a clientele of US servicemen
Teresa Margolles (born 1963), portraying death
Isabel Muñoz (born 1951), black-and-white pictures of the human body, toreros and dancers
Madame Yevonde (1893–1975), pioneered colour in portrait photography, including a series of guests at a party dressed as Roman and Greek gods and goddesses
Carol Beckwith (born 1945), photographer of the indigenous tribal cultures of Africa
Joan E. Biren (born 1946), with focus on lesbians and feminism (many more in this category)
Louise Arner Boyd (1887–1972), explorer who took hundreds of photographs of the Arctic
Sherrie Levine (born 1947) with a knack for appropriation photography
Anne Noggle (1922–2005), a photographer after a career as an aviator, depicted the ageing process of women
Rachel Sussman (born 1975), hunting for living organisms at least 2,000 years old
I'm not aware of any female Inuit photographers, but Michelle Valberg from Ottawa is well known for her photographs of Canada's Arctic and Inuit people
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Good, now we are getting somewhere. There are even women shooting teddy bears.
http://www.boredpanda.com/rats-teddy-bears-ellen-van-deelen-jessica-florence/
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Don't want to be disrespectful, but every time I seem an article about honoring women in something, I begin to wonder if I'm reliving the 50s. Women in the arts shouldn't be a separate sub-phylum: too often, "Women artists, 1980-1990" and so on are actually code words for "Artists who aren't quite good enough to stand on their own."
The thing about women in photography is, right from the start women have not only been important, but you could make a very good argument that THEY have been dominant, and not men. Let me throw out a few names: Julia Margaret Cameron, Imogen Cunningham, Dorothea Lange, Lisette Model, Cindy Sherman, Diane Arbus, Annie Leibovitz, Margaret Bourke-White, Helen Levitt, Lee Miller, Sally Mann, Carrie Mae Weems, Annie Leibovitz, Bernice Abbott, Tina Modotti, Mary Ellen Mark, Ruth Bernhard, Nan Goldin, Francesca Woodman, Ilse Bing, Jane Brown, and I'm still forgetting a lot of them. That's just off the top of my head, and I don't know the names of lots of distinguished Asian and European women photographers. Anyone think they could come up with a list of male photographers with names as familiar as those, and work as distinguished?
If the article were called, Honoring Women Gearheads, you wouldn't have heard a thing from me; honoring women *photographers* seems a trifle patronizing.
Jeez, eat a bran muffin. Or three.
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... all the misconceptions would be cleared.
And what misconceptions would those be?
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I notice that many women who post and are amateurs seem to photograph better then amateur men. They seem less concerned with technical stuff and get more into feelings.
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... all the misconceptions would be cleared.
And what misconceptions would those be?
All kinds. I guess, I'll have to start using those little funnicons in my posts.
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Hi,
I sort of have noted that women are sometimes more interested in usability than price tag...
Best regards
Erik
I notice that many women who post and are amateurs seem to photograph better then amateur men. They seem less concerned with technical stuff and get more into feelings.
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I notice that many women who post and are amateurs seem to photograph better then amateur men. They seem less concerned with technical stuff and get more into feelings.
Good Lord, Alan, a new species?
Rob C
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For feelings, you need amorous men.
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I notice that many women who post and are amateurs seem to photograph better then amateur men. They seem less concerned with technical stuff and get more into feelings.
How do you press the shutter button with more feeling?
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For feelings, you need amorous men.
What, and break the macho tradition?
Don't you realise it would be the beginning of the end for the entire sports world, the heroes we are all supposed, and encouraged to admire when we are little kids, but often fail to view with realism when we grow up? What would happen to all those stinking 'sports' shoes, those dumb millionaires and their vacant wives? Where would the 'sports' bars find customers if those poor, demented folks suddenly got real and were to realise that they, as individual fans, didn't exist beyond a multi-coloured, banner-bearing, howling mass?
Anyway, as Buddy Holly sang:
"It's a weak man that cries
So I guess I'd best dry my eyes
Guess I will miss her more than any one
But it's too late - she's gone."
Too radical a thought, Les! Men must be men, and women supposedly glad for it.
;-)
Rob
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How do you press the shutter button with more feeling?
(I have a sense that "street" photographers know how to go about doing that.)
When a piece of "street" flips the heat seeking switch in my brain, it always seems to come from a place where the "snapper" has existed that moment in a place between inhale and exhale, with heart about to pound, and certainly without the physical awareness of a "button" to push. They are at that moment on another plane. Don't have a skillset of practiced street photographers, but recognize those firing moments when I see them...and appreciate them. The real good ones almost catch me holding my breath as I view them~
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Look at the headshots!
http://www.dominiqueissermann.com/#!casta-vanity-fair/c249k
Rob
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You don't know Kevin very well huh? I do and I'm here to tell ya, your perception of what Kev meant to say was about 180º off base.
Kev is a rooter...he roots for people, he roots for camera makers, printer makers, paper makers, ETC! He is enthusiastic about everything (he can't help himself) so when he hit on writing about women he took his 60+ year old perspective and write about women in photography. That's about all you should read into his writing...
It's too late to to change the title...can you forgive Kev's enthusiasm?
Jeff, I don't think anyone here questions Kevin's best intentions. But I quite agree with OP.
It's very much like modern feminists IMO do more harm than help to the once-noble cause. The quote that Slobodan brought up is a perfect summary.