Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: duane_bolland on April 21, 2016, 07:18:21 pm
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I have one quick comment on the Antarctica trips. Delete or respond as you see fit.
I'm always interested in the trips, but I can never pull the trigger. My main gripe is that I would be subsidizing all these "instructors" that are tagging along. I don't want instruction or celebrity entertainment or formal discussions or any of that jazz. I just want to be transported down there, fed, and otherwise generally left alone. Obviously there needs to be some sort of a guide and/or head organizer, maybe even two, but I don't see why six instructors are needed.
Forgive me if you have done some trips with less baggage. I don't stop by here very often.
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Fair enough - each to their own.
However, my experience is that on a trip such as this with a great deal of sea-time, the opportunity to listen to, talk with and work with well-known photographers is very valuable for many.
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Fair enough - each to their own.
However, my experience is that on a trip such as this with a great deal of sea-time, the opportunity to listen to, talk with and work with well-known photographers is very valuable for many.
I would say to Duane that, respectfully, there is probably no learning experience to top being in the captive company of a group of enthusiastic shutterbugs for 10 days or so. Even if one were a Pulitzer prize winner you would learn plenty.
I tend strongly toward landscape, wildlife and bird photography. I have a friend who is an ex-press photographer with a specialisation in sport. Whenever we shoot together we both appear to be equally astounded at the learning opportunities we seem to present the other.
I would give my right leg to go to Antarctica and be a fellow captive photographer!
Nuff said.
Tony Jay
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If you look around there are plenty of trips (ways to get there) without being part of a group financing the privileged few!
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If you look around there are plenty of trips (ways to get there) without being part of a group financing the privileged few!
Yeah but when LuLa puts on an Antarctic trip, the entire boat is pretty much dedicated to the photographers on the trip. The Captain goes where Mike & Kev want to go, stop when the group decides, holds meals for maximize shooting and in general cater to photographers in the group. The other aspect is that the instructors (by & large) have been there and done that and can advise how to maximize the locations and the experience.
Yeah, there are a lot of trips out there if you want to go on your own...but you'll just be one of many travelers. A group of photographers led by an experienced leader makes a lot of difference.
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I don't doubt there are many who see value in organised and tutored trips.
From a personal perspective the mere sight of another photographer tells me I'm in the wrong place.
Keith,
Home safely, then!
But I thought you loved Venice...
(I know exactly what you mean; it's the ultimate turn-off, that ersatz, mono-dimensional chumminess with ships of the night.)
I feel the same about car parks, too. Ann hated the X1/9: whenever she went shopping she felt obliged to find the most distant spot at Safeway. And even then, despite acres of space, there was always some asshole parked right up against it in the next slot when she returned with the trolley.
She never reported if they were there to watch her climbing back in.
Rob
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I guess to each his own. I personally like being around other photographers on a trip. You do learn something and can also learn to see something you might have missed or not thought about. I never presume to know it all or know a place, someone always has a different perspective. I can see the desire to be alone with one's thought but on something so far away I think the added benefit of prior knowledge about location and logistics is a great help. To me how you frame the image and make an image is a personal thing and whether or not someone is next to me does not really matter, I captured my moment at that time. i would think that on a trip like this you are with other people but not always shoulder to shoulder like at some popular locations. I would love to go on a trip like this but I doubt I could afford to make it there.
Just my $0.2 to the discussion.
Alan
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Rob,
Yes, back safely from our Moroccan idyll.
The mere thought of an organised trip or tour, particularly in the company of other photographers is an anathema. Just give us a ticket and a bed and we're in our element.
That said, thankfully there are enough folk with a different mind set to fund this little place.
Indeed, 'twould be awful if everyone thought the same; but hang on a sec whilst I think this novel idea over...
Quite liked this car. It was relatively low, and easy to wash the roof; got it in late '84, afaik, which was when it came out here. The current Fiesta is too high, and my sleeves get soaked every time. Progress.
(http://www.roma57.com/uploads/4/2/8/7/4287956/4992700_orig.jpg)
Pirelli's P6 tyres were nice.
Rob
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I guess to each his own. I personally like being around other photographers on a trip. You do learn something and can also learn to see something you might have missed or not thought about. I never presume to know it all or know a place, someone always has a different perspective. I can see the desire to be alone with one's thought but on something so far away I think the added benefit of prior knowledge about location and logistics is a great help. To me how you frame the image and make an image is a personal thing and whether or not someone is next to me does not really matter, I captured my moment at that time. i would think that on a trip like this you are with other people but not always shoulder to shoulder like at some popular locations. I would love to go on a trip like this but I doubt I could afford to make it there.
Just my $0.2 to the discussion.
Alan
It comes down to personality. I really don't want to know what somebody else did before me in the same place. That was one of the problems of shooting in the common calendar locations - forgetting how others had used them after you had allowed the images to indicate whether you felt the places had possibilities... the better the other guy's picture the more difficult to erase it from your mind.
Fortunately for my sanity I seldom had to shoot whisky bottles. And imagine shooting Marlboro sans cowboys! Actually, I think I remember it was David James shot some great calendar stuff for them (Marl.) with girls (Jane Sumner)... probably before the PC brigade began to worry about girls, booze, smokes and advertising together in the same space. Lamb's Navy Rum also did girl calendars, but my memory of them is that, by comparison, they weren't very elegant. (Maybe designed with sailors in mind and Hong Kong bars.)
For me, icebergs will for ever be Titanic.
Great days.
Rob C
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I have similar feeling about photo tours. I did one in Kauai a couple of years ago and it was fun and I learned about access to locations but I just wan't into the group dynamic we had. I was the most "serious" attendee (and really I'm not a serious person most of the time) and this may have been the issue because we had some phone and tablet shooters who seemed to be just checking vistas off a list rather than observing and trying to see what makes a particular place different of special.
I imagine a LuLa tour would be attended by more actual photographers, but you just never know how a group will be until you are part of it.
A small group of the right folks could be almost perfect but it's hard for me to commit when I don't really know.
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... I'm always interested in the trips, but I can never pull the trigger... I just want to be transported...
I stopped by a Bentley dealership the other day to let them know, loudly, that I am not interested in their cars. I just wanted to be transported to the nearest grocery store. I do not need all those horses under the hood or all that luxury inside, and my Camry would do just fine, thank you very much.
But seriously, what exactly is the point of the OP rant? Does the OP think LuLa is a tourist agency or a personal travel concierge? And what's up with that habit of sticking one's nose in other people's business or complaining about prices? You do not like the price or arrangement? It is a free country, just don't buy it.
Must have something to do with that cranky grandpa running for president, whose main campaign point is that life is not fair and to his liking.
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But seriously, what exactly is the point of the OP rant?
may be he/she is trying to find out if there are any leaner photo trips, just with one guide, that's it... I 'd suggest = http://frameway.club/workshops/ ... yes, it is not american outlet, but reputable nevertheless and prices are good (even there might be 2 guides) 8)
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I stopped by a Bentley dealership the other day to let them know, loudly, that I am not interested in their cars. I just wanted to be transported to the nearest grocery store. I do not need all those horses under the hood or all that luxury inside, and my Camry would do just fine, thank you very much.
But seriously, what exactly is the point of the OP rant? Does the OP think LuLa is a tourist agency or a personal travel concierge? And what's up with that habit of sticking one's nose in other people's business or complaining about prices? You do not like the price or arrangement? It is a free country, just don't buy it.
Must have something to do with that cranky grandpa running for president, whose main campaign point is that life is not fair and to his liking.
There you are: you see how much more interesting the thread has become now you mention Bentley? So what if you don't have one right now - you got rid of the emotion! Catharsis, dear boy, catharsis. That's what photography is often all about: we can use it in all manner of ways: substitute, adventure, money-maker and even fun! But man, I hate the cold. It's the circulation, you know: not what it used to be in the Golden Age. There was one, wasn't there?
;-)
Rob
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But seriously, what exactly is the point of the OP rant? Does the OP think LuLa is a tourist agency or a personal travel concierge? And what's up with that habit of sticking one's nose in other people's business or complaining about prices? You do not like the price or arrangement? It is a free country, just don't buy it.
Must have something to do with that cranky grandpa running for president, whose main campaign point is that life is not fair and to his liking.
The OP seemed quite polite to me. On the other hand your reply seems an aggressive rant from over here.
I can't speak for LuLa trips, but my experience is that the instructors are dead weight. Sorry.
At sea most of us are just trying to hang on in those waters, and when close to land are too busy photographing and trying to keep our gear operational. With 70 passengers you won't get much of a chance for one to one discussion if there is any down time. Kevin, Chris or Schewe (if he can avoid being attacked by the wildlife) would be enough.
The real advantage of a voyage like this is it is dedicated to photography. The ship will head where the light is best, the captain will push the limits of the vessel and when the zodiacs are out everyone gets to go. You simply don't get an opportunity like this on most ordinary tourist ships.
David
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David,
With 70 passengers you won't get much of a chance for one to one discussion if there is any down time. Kevin, Chris or Schewe (if he can avoid being attacked by the wildlife) would be enough.
Why do you suppose wildlife chooses to attack Jeff in particular?
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Why do you suppose wildlife chooses to attack Jeff in particular?
'Cos Antarctica has a community of highly disgruntled penguins that are royally pissed awf ever since they were coerced into the CC subscription platform and see Jeff as an Adobe apologist. That's why.
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Manoli,
'Cos Antarctica has a community of highly disgruntled penguins that are royally pissed awf ever since they were coerced into the CC subscription platform and see Jeff as an Adobe apologist. That's why.
Oh. Well, that's not good.
...royally...
Emperor penguins?
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Rob,
Emperor penguins?
Very good !
Edit:
To be precise, the King species - the Emperors are the Imperial ones.
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'Cos Antarctica has a community of highly disgruntled penguins that are royally pissed awf ever since they were coerced into the CC subscription platform and see Jeff as an Adobe apologist. That's why.
;D ;D ;D
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... With 70 passengers you won't get much of a chance for one to one discussion if there is any down time. Kevin, Chris or Schewe ... would be enough...
70 people + 6 instructors combination gives you more "one to one" opportunities than 70 people + 2 or 3 instructors, no?
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David,
Why do you suppose wildlife chooses to attack Jeff in particular?
Hawaiian shirt ?
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AlterEgo,
Hawaiian shirt ?
Jealousy is a terrible thing.
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70 people + 6 instructors combination gives you more "one to one" opportunities than 70 people + 2 or 3 instructors, no?
Certainly. But that is a bit like saying that while studying meditation carrying 6 mobile phones gives you more opportunity than carrying 2.
My experience was that the instructors were great fun to hang out with but with one exception were there to make their own work. It's not the place to look at slideshows of someone's last shoot in Timbuktu or how to sort your Lightroom catalogue.
The Antarctic itself is the great instructor. It needs ambassadors to preserve it. The first lesson came in the words of the Ocean Nova's expedition leader: “photographers are my worst nightmare”. I'm afraid he was right.
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The first lesson came in the words of the Ocean Nova's expedition leader: “photographers are my worst nightmare”. I'm afraid he was right.
Because?
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It's not just a matter of following the correct decontamination procedures before and after each landing. Future generations will not be allowed to visit if the wildlife is molested and the place is left covered in plastic. The expedition operators are not playing here. For example with every landing they take food and tents because there is no guarantee you will be able to get back on board the ship. If you don't follow the rules they will ban you and you will never get on another ship south.
When a bunch of photographers land from a zodiac and open their backpacks it's amazing the amount of stuff that comes flying out and and is blown everywhere. Each piece that's let loose has to be tracked and retrieved. Every evening the crew would bring out a collection of stuff people didn't even realise they had lost.
Have you learned to step back to frame a photograph? Down there after six days without proper sleep because it never gets dark and you want to maximise the opportunity, you become absent minded. Not to mention the effects of seasick remedies. There has to a crew member watching to warn you not to step back because of what's behind you. (Yes, I did that one)
The crew mark out where you can walk after a landing. There's always a few photographers who haven't learnt to let penguins come to them, and make a nuisance of themselves. Crushed eggs are not a good look. One man a few years ago entered a building that was off limits thus voiding his insurance, feel through the floor and broke his leg. He had to pay for a plane to fly from the US to collect him.
Lots of other stuff. I hope that gives you an idea.
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Since 2005 Luminous-Landscape has been taking groups to Antarctica for some amazing photographic opportunities. At this time we have only 2 berths left for this Novembers trip. This is a ship totally chartered by Luminous-Landscape for the purpose of giving photographers an opportunity to see one of the most pristine places on the planet. The comments about an expedition leader on the Ocean Nova about photographers is hard to believe. Our EL's have been top notch and share in the joy of taking photographs. Many of the crew do whatever they can to get onto our charter as this is not a tourist charter like they run most of the time.
Antarctica, Greenland, Svalbard and many more places are truly special not only for photographers to enjoy but also because of where they are and what they represent. Antarctica after 13 journeys there is still one place that changes me after each visit. The location holds such a special place in my heart that I got married there last year. I am sure that the hundreds of people who have made the journey with us to Antarctica will share what a great and life changing trip it was. And, as far as instructors they are there to help make sure that everyone maximizes their photographic opportunity. There is a lot of sharing over dinners and while working collectively on images.
In 2017 we will be doing a Greenland photography trip. News on this will be forthcoming soon and in 2018 we will return to Antarctica with a South of the Circle trip. To see what our trips have been like then search for previous articles and videos here on the site.
I wonder if Mr Sutton would have said the things he does if he was on one of our trips.
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Because?
Of all of the BS that will be spouted?
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'Cos Antarctica has a community of highly disgruntled penguins that are royally pissed awf ever since they were coerced into the CC subscription platform and see Jeff as an Adobe apologist. That's why.
Actually, I get along very well with penguins...it's the fur seals that like to take a bite out of me :~)
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I have one quick comment on the Antarctica trips. Delete or respond as you see fit.
I'm always interested in the trips, but I can never pull the trigger. My main gripe is that I would be subsidizing all these "instructors" that are tagging along. I don't want instruction or celebrity entertainment or formal discussions or any of that jazz. I just want to be transported down there, fed, and otherwise generally left alone. Obviously there needs to be some sort of a guide and/or head organizer, maybe even two, but I don't see why six instructors are needed.
Forgive me if you have done some trips with less baggage. I don't stop by here very often.
It's a large group and a certain number of instructors is valid. Is six one or two too many? Hard to say. But the price of the workshop would not vary a lot if you took one or two off the list.
Maybe you would be better served in terms of your needs looking for other workshops with less instructors. If you don't use the instructors one could call them dead weight. But maybe you really should use them if you went on such a trip.
I think the key to such a trip is if the workshop leader has experience enough to really judge the weather and locations to take you where the best opportunities exist. You will not be able to do this on your own on a tourist ship. The same goes for many other photo locations and the the number of instructors may be a more valid point.
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....it's the fur seals that like to take a bite out of me :~)
Luckily, someone recorded (https://www.facebook.com/HuffPostUK/videos/1108264552574609/) that brutal attack!
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Luckily, someone recorded (https://www.facebook.com/HuffPostUK/videos/1108264552574609/) that brutal attack!
I can't be certain that it's Schewe, 'cuz I can't see his shirt.
But it's a great video.
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I can't be certain that it's Schewe, 'cuz I can't see his shirt.
Not me...but it did bring back nice memories (particularly the hooting of the King Penguin).
The shocking thing about wildlife down there is that they have ZERO fear of humans...in fact it can get to be a pain in the arse...I caught a baby fur seal in my camera bag trying to steel a lens cleaning rag and I had penguins coming up (when sitting on the ground) and trying to peck my lens to see what is was.
As long as you don't move fast, they will be inclined to treat you as a curious part of the landscape. That's part of the experience...
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Background – I have been to Antarctica 40 times or so (half a year in the Drake Passage :) ). First as a passenger, then as a tour leader and/or ship photographer. I do 2-4 trips down there every year. Similar experience in the Arctic, some or so (land-based) trips. My wife owns a “polar” booking company, hence we know ships, operators, staff, pricing etc. reasonably well.
IAATO sets visitor guidelines in Antarctica – landing site access (some sites are blocked during certain times to protect wildlife, historical sites), number and size of ships that can visit a site (never more than one at a time) and “policies on land” (e.g., active distance to wildlife).
“We just tell the captain where we want to go” is a myth that some tour companies like to propagate. That is far from the truth. Yes, you can run your ship where you may feel are good conditions, and shoot from the ship. But you cannot just show up at a site that has good weather/light/other conditions and land. The odds of a site being available are small in high season, and only a “trade” with another ship may accomplish a switch.
In South Georgia, the distance and direction of travel (almost all tours start on the east side, in the north) makes changes even more challenging.
You DO have the flexibility stay longer on land, if the captain and EL (expedition leader) and agree (and no other ship is scheduled to land later after you).
The maximum number of people “on land” allowed is usually 100. So, no, do not go on larger ships, as that will be “split” for landings (e.g., 200 passengers -> 100 go first, then the other 100).
There are different seasons, and you have to make a trade-off between “I want to see chicks” and other criteria. I like the early season, since I love penguins on snow, not poopy rock. But – no chicks, except for kings (“okum boys”). But then, you see elephant seal pups early in the season.
Photo tour or not – that is a personal preference. I prefer to not have a lot of people with lots of gear around me. Yes, photographers are more likely to break the rules to get “the shot” (being "too close" is a common complaint). But, more importantly, if you go on a regular tour, non-photographers tend to go back to the ship sooner – you may often have the landing site to just you and a few others. You never see that with a ship chock full of photographers.
Lastly, I get motion-sick on each trip. It is still worth it!
Best,
Thomas
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www.thomaskokta.com
www.alifeoftravel.com
PS That video is of a baby elephant seal, aka, “wiener”. They often come close. You would not want to be that close to a fur seal, adult or infant. They can be very aggressive, and sometimes their quantities on beaches block access to landings.