Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Lighting => Topic started by: Christoph B. on March 15, 2016, 06:13:08 am
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Hello there!
I've been thinking of switching to Profoto and adapting most of my current Elinchrom light modifiers so I can keep using them, I still have a Ranger-Set for location shoots that I'm very happy with, but my monoheads are slowly dying. I was a bit disappointed with the build quality of the RX Style series and there were sometimes issues with changing color temperatures - small but noticeable.
I've heard good things about the Profoto D1 series, the 500 and 1000 are very common and often used - however I've seen that Elinchrom has a new-ish product line called ELC Pro HD which promises rather short flash durations and supposedly has a better build-quality.
Has anyone of you tried the new Pro HD-line? What are your thoughts - especially on the stability of color temperature?
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I have used the 500 w-s versions of both. No question in my mind: I would choose the Elinchrom ELC Pro HD if those were the only two options.
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@ Ellis: What are your reasons for choosing the Elinchom head?
@Raul: That's exactly what I've heard from other users, it seems like the ProFoto heads are extremely durable. How happy are you with the consistency of the color temperature of the D1? (flash duration isn't that big of a deal for me)
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This helps a lot, thank you! I was thinking of using the frosted dome anyway to get a more even look on all (or rather most) modifiers, especially the ones from Elinchrom which I want to keep on using.
One question though; do you use a beautydish? I could only find a 50cm from ProFoto but I like the look of the 75cm ones..
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If build quality and constant CT (also flash duration) is important to you: Did you ever consider the broncolor siros?
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Well..not really..
Broncolor isn't as widely spread and there's only one dealer here in the whole country (who doesn't even have a webshop to check for prices etc).
So if I ever need something ASAP that won't be easy - especially . Besides I often need 1000Ws and they only go to 800.
Right now I'm leaning towards a D1 1000 - but perhaps Ellis Vener has a good reason for choosing the Elinchrom over the Profoto? Would be very interesting.
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Well..not really..
Broncolor isn't as widely spread and there's only one dealer here in the whole country (who doesn't even have a webshop to check for prices etc).
So if I ever need something ASAP that won't be easy - especially . Besides I often need 1000Ws and they only go to 800.
Right now I'm leaning towards a D1 1000 - but perhaps Ellis Vener has a good reason for choosing the Elinchrom over the Profoto? Would be very interesting.
Well, from 800 to 1000Ws is just 1/4stop, not sure if that really matters. Having bad access to a dealer is another story. Where are you located? I thought broncolor is everywhere.
The siros is the most advanced compact head that I know of and surprisingly it is priced very comparative, I´d spend a thought on it. If you´re leaning towards the D1, check if you like the flat light output surface. A lot of modifiers are not optimized for this characteristic. (We recently added a profoto D2, so this is personal experience).
Cheers
Ulf
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I'm located in Austria, we only have http://www.slach.at and the page is confusing as hell. I can't tell whether they are selling them or just blogging about them.
Any I can't find a shop to rent them either, so if I need more or one goes down I'd be in quite some trouble.
I've worked with D1s before, the 'flat' surface never bothered me and in a softbox I didn't see any issues with that anyway. But I could imagine with harder reflectors it might be visible or even a problem.
Sorry for my ignorance - but what's a D2? I know there's a B2, but D2?
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I'm located in Austria, we only have http://www.slach.at and the page is confusing as hell. I can't tell whether they are selling them or just blogging about them.
Any I can't find a shop to rent them either, so if I need more or one goes down I'd be in quite some trouble.
I've worked with D1s before, the 'flat' surface never bothered me and in a softbox I didn't see any issues with that anyway. But I could imagine with harder reflectors it might be visible or even a problem.
Sorry for my ignorance - but what's a D2? I know there's a B2, but D2?
Sorry I mistyped, I was indeed talking about the Profoto B2, which has the flat surface as well. You probably won´t go wrong with any of them it´s probably more a matter of taste, just wanted to point to a high developed option. Cheers!
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I do use the Profoto beauty dish from time to time (I don't do a lot of fashion these days) But I can see that a bigger one would be better to create a more pleasant fall-off.
The D1 flat surface is the reason why I recommended the frosted dome, the beauty dish is unusable without it. Profoto recently added a foldable beauty dish to the list of modifiers, but I don't know what size it is.
The Para88 is a great beauty light, not sure about the flat flash head though…
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I don't know, it's very pricey and from what I've seen it's just as good as any BD - maybe even worse when you consider that you can't put a deflector on it. You'd have to mount the flash head to shoot indirectly but just about all mono-heads are too big for that IMHO.
If money was no consideration I'd go with a generator and a few heads anyway, but as it is I'm on a budget.
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You do need the Profoto frosted dome if you're planning on using large softboxes or octas, or even the beauty dish.
Could some kind of flexible diffusion material placed over the front of the strobe simulate using the frosted dome?
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We moved to Profoto years ago and would never go back to 'below' them or say Bron. The build quality, reliability, consistency, strong light mount and stand mounts, etc - all the usual superlatives you hear about higher-end lights.
We have some B1s and D1s among our gear and their great units, but do p/u domes. They make a diff in large soft boxes, and in BDs.
Also consider Acute packs. We have 3 and love them. Due to the B1, the price had fallen out of the bottom of the AcuteB series in the aftermarket and 1200 packs are no longer sexy.
The pack and head system, regardless if Profoto or Bron, really opens up the ease of use with many mods, like any future paras and makes for safer booming. In addition, the Acute and Pro heads have the umbrella holes alongside the tube, so would can turn any Para or octa into a BD using an Eli defector kit - or Eli rod with a Mola perforated deflector.
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Thank you for your feedback! :)
I don't think an Acute pack is going to be feasible right now, especially when I have to move my equipment I'd rather have one or two monoheads than a huge generator with one or two additional small heads.
Besides even the used ones are pretty expensive and if the pack should fail or break I'd be pretty screwed.
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@ Ellis: What are your reasons for choosing the Elinchom head?
Over the D1? better (shorter) flash duration, and more advanced electronics.
@Raul: That's exactly what I've heard from other users, it seems like the ProFoto heads are extremely durable. How happy are you with the consistency of the color temperature of the D1? (flash duration isn't that big of a deal for me)
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I like Elinchrom however its disappointing they have abandoned the pack system development completely. The new monohead is quite advanced, however the head design is, for me, quite outdated.
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Another vote for the bron Siros here - they are one hell of a lot of light for the money using the same tech as bron's ultra expensive Scoro pack. Being a bron user makes me bias but changing system, (so not tied in by modifiers) buying a D1 over a Siros is madness IMO.
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Well as I said before - I don't even have a dealer for Broncolor in Austria. Not a real one, anyway, I can't see any prices or various products on his page, it's more like a blog - completely useless.
It's the same for Germany. How on earth are you supposed to make a decision when you can't even find a pricetag on their product? How they're able to survive as a company is beyond me.
edit: by the way: why would buying a D1 over a Siros be madness?
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by the way: why would buying a D1 over a Siros be madness?
Don't get me wrong the Profoto is a great reliable light and many people love them but IMO you are paying for the brand name more then anything else.
Why buy a Siros....... flash duration, colour stability, 9 fstop power range, HSS (option), WIFI, exposed flash tube are but a few, however if non of this matters in a premium product then why bother changing from the cheaper Elinchrom which is a great system?
Where to buy bron in you area however is not something I can help you with sorry.
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I would be perfectly happy to stay with Elinchrom IF the colour stability was much better (±200) and the build quality was better as well.
Every Elinchrom mono-head ended up with a broken umbrella/deflector-shaft. They were either too tight or too lose right from the beginning, so I had to send them in for repair - and then after a few years they'd just break and fall out.
Right now I have both my RX 1200 and RX 600 with a broken umbrella-shaft and I'm fed up with having to send it in for repairs. Besides I've no warranty and I don't think I have the nerve to spend any more money and time on it. It just has to work.
As far as I know Elinchrom has not changed the general design of the shaft and I' rather spend more money for better colour and build quality than be stuck with that.
Right now the only system that has a better build and colour quality and is available for a decent price is the ProFoto - I'd got for Bron but as I said I can't see any prices and for all intents and purposes it's just not available in my region.
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I'd got for Bron but as I said I can't see any prices and for all intents and purposes it's just not available in my region.
Seriously, you´re joking. Just type "Siros 800" and googles second hit is giving you prices from a german retailer. I don´t know Slach in Austria, but again I´m sure you´ll get a price and availability within minutes as he is listed as official dealer on the swiss broncolor site. But by all means, if you feel Profoto suits your needs best and/or is better supported in your region go for it, just don´t say if somebody would have told me…
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I use to use Dyna Lights and Bowens, and a couple of other brands that I would rent.
Then I switched to the Profoto Acutes and have never looked back. I just find the build quality to be spot on, and color consistency is very important to me.
When I was buying (before the D1s were released), I read two studies pitting the Acutes against the Sensos. Both found that the Senso had amazing color consistency at the higher power settings, but fell off once you got to the middle and lower settings. The Acutes were not as consistent as the Sensos at the high power settings, but held their consistency throughout.
This why I bought into Profoto.
In the future, I am thinking about adding a few D1 1000s to my kit, and only take one 2400 Acute with one head for my main key light. Weight is an issue with the Acutes, and my back is not getting any younger.
With that said, it kind of annoys me that you can not do straight up ceiling bounces with the D1 Monolights. I consider this to be a serious design flaw, however they are very well built other wise.
Insofar as Brons, there are a few modifiers Broncolor make which Profoto does not have a great equivalent to. (However, it is the same thing the other way around as well.) Too bad, since some of the Bron modifiers I would love to have.
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@Ulf:
http://www.slach.at
Not kidding at all. Look at it. It's a mess.
I'm not going to rely on a dealer from Germany if I'm in trouble and need some help a.s.a.p. and this is the dealer listed by Broncolor:
http://www.bronkobold.de/broncolor/broncolor-produkte/kompaktleuchten
can't find any prices for the 800S anywhere on these pages.
I was however able to find a listing on another page from Germany (which was not listed as an official Bron dealer) but as the price is in the same range as the ProFoto and it has 200W less and there's nothing to rent locally I wouldn't buy it anyway. I'm not just thinking about what can deliver enough power, I also have to think about jobs where I need more equipment and I don't want to rent a completely new/strange system when I need more heads.
Yes, the short flash duration sounds great, I'm looking into options to pair with the Profoto for HSS (PocketWizard seems to have some sort of HSS-capability with PF) but I wouldn't buy into a monohead if short flash duration was the main reason. A generator would be a much better option.
@JoeKitchen: thanks for the feedback!
I think most monoheads are ill equipped for shots straight up - but I found a neat little trick - on my bigger Manfrotto stands you can mount the spigot horizontally - which means your lights can point anywhere you like - and it's just as stable and a fairly quick process.
I agree, there's always something missing - that's why I'll keep most of my current Elinchrom light modifiers (the Rotalux System is pretty great) but I'm also looking forward to working with the magnum reflector. The shadows look amazing and I'm sure it's going to be a nice light for edgy fashion shoots.
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@Joe: I see your point and understand your decision against the senso. Actually I never understood broncolor for releasing a series that is not fully integrated into the system with the senso line. But I think they have made great product with Move and Siros, both using and introducing their advanced grafit / scoro CTC technology in a very comparative package. Color consistency and flash duration is in its own category.
@C+B: I did not intend to point you to a german dealer, it was just for a price reference. You might have also taken a look at a well known dealer in USA just for comparison. I´m glad you finally found out the siros are in the same ball park price wise. I cannot speak for other countries but at least in Germany broncolor has a direct contact to the user base and does not sell through retailers. You can get a hands on demonstration in your studio and a quote if interested in any products. Alternately you can just give them a call and get a price list, its just not available online. That´s the same for Briese, Profoto, you name it.
Regarding flash duration, a pack is not necessarily better than a mono head, if you don´t like broncolor, take a look at the Einsteins but be aware these really won´t be available in your country.
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I think most monoheads are ill equipped for shots straight up - but I found a neat little trick - on my bigger Manfrotto stands you can mount the spigot horizontally - which means your lights can point anywhere you like - and it's just as stable and a fairly quick process.
I think Joe is referring to pointing an open flash tube to the ceiling so you get some bounce and direct light 360 degrees (sort of) around the head. You will struggle to do this with the D1 as the tube is recessed and gives a 77 degree spread by default. Adding one of those optional domes can help as long as you can put up with the terrible way they connect and extra bulk but the tube is not inside the dome and still recessed beneath it so not the same as the lovely Acute or Pro heads.
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Yes, Gareth, that is what I dislike about the D1s. Actually, I don't think I have found any monolights that I really like, but I kind of think that is par for the course. If you want to save weight, and your back, you have to sacrifice in other areas.
I think I really need to get into high production shoots where I have like 3 assistance and a digital tech running around carrying everything. But, even so, I know that with the guys who do that work, that that only happens maybe a third of the time. The rest, they are working on small budgets with one, or two, assistants carrying half the stuff themselves.
Anyway, the Magnum reflector is pretty awesome. And if you have some money left over, I would highly recommend getting the Narrow Beam and the 10 degree grid spot, which fits both.
Both of those reflectors offer so many possibilities.
The great thing about the Magnum is the inside must have over a 1000 dimples, which keeps the shadow from breaking apart. In the kitchen image below, the light coming in from the left is from the Magnum, no gel (other than for color) was used.
Now the Narrow Beam has a polished interior, so the shadows start to break apart, but a 1/8 diffusion over the front (or under the grid) helps that. However, the Narrow Beam produces an extremely bright center with a dramatically less bright edge. This is great for me; I can aim the center of the beam to project the furthest into the image and still have that area brighter then where the edge hits. In the restaurant image, the Narrow Beam is about 5 feet outside the window on the right and is what is producing the light raking across the bar and making the light & shadows on the left.
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@Joe: I see your point and understand your decision against the senso. Actually I never understood broncolor for releasing a series that is not fully integrated into the system with the senso line. But I think they have made great product with Move and Siros, both using and introducing their advanced grafit / scoro CTC technology in a very comparative package. Color consistency and flash duration is in its own category.
Yes, those Siros look nice. Nice flash duration too, considering they are monolights.
At this point though, the only thing that would make me go to the other side would be if I started doing splashes.
I was going to, but I really love interior work and kind of feel there is no connection between my product work and my architectural work. So my focus right now is producing lifestyle/product work in well lit spaces (not necessarily well lit like my current interior work, but more like my product work), which is what my Para Umbrella post was all about.
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At this point though, the only thing that would make me go to the other side would be if I started doing splashes.
If you´re working with a handheld camera you quickly learn to value short flash duration...
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Interesting discussion. I have B1 and D1s and looking to add more lights to my kit so I started comparing the B4 and move. How durable is the Broncolor move anyway? Can it viral the B4 durability wise? B4 looks and feels very heavy duty and I wonder if Move is up to the same standard. Look at the price difference, it's kinda saying they are in different levels. Move does have a very good spec though besides recycling time and recharging time.
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Interesting discussion. I have B1 and D1s and looking to add more lights to my kit so I started comparing the B4 and move. How durable is the Broncolor move anyway? Can it viral the B4 durability wise? B4 looks and feels very heavy duty and I wonder if Move is up to the same standard. Look at the price difference, it's kinda saying they are in different levels. Move does have a very good spec though besides recycling time and recharging time.
Other than just playing around with one some time ago I don´t have personal experience, but from what I´ve seen it is practically a "mini-Scoro". Only downside would be they don´t power the modeling light on the Pulso heads. Probably to not cannibalize their high end line… But if you´re all into Profoto that´s a tough decision.
There is a review / comparison on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4FT8wGgDl4
Cheers
Ulf
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Its a dilemma between Broncolor and Profoto, Broncolor has the best packs but I much prefer Profoto head design. Profoto heads are very compact, fuse seamlessly to the modifiers and the attachment collar makes every head/modifier zoom-able.
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Interesting discussion. I have B1 and D1s and looking to add more lights to my kit so I started comparing the B4 and move. How durable is the Broncolor move anyway? Can it viral the B4 durability wise? B4 looks and feels very heavy duty and I wonder if Move is up to the same standard. Look at the price difference, it's kinda saying they are in different levels. Move does have a very good spec though besides recycling time and recharging time.
I've owned and used Profoto mono's and packs but now have Move and Scoro packs and I have no concerns over their durability as they are beautifully made. I've been told the Profoto Pro packs were designed with rental markets in mind (their biggest customers) so massively over engineered as rental gear is not generally well looked after. Not sure what you plan on doing with your lighting kit but a good sign of bron durability is a quick surf on ebay and you will find some very old bron kit that looks and works pretty much as they did when they were new however, in comparison the old Profoto gear works but look very battered. I personally feel at this level, build quality and reliability is a given so a level playing field when comparing between the two unless dropping personal gear out of the back of your car is the usual way you look after your lighting kit.
If I owned B1 and D1's mixing bron battery pack's in with them doesn't make much sense to me as they operate quite differently and modifiers not compatible.
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Its a dilemma between Broncolor and Profoto, Broncolor has the best packs but I much prefer Profoto head design. Profoto heads are very compact, fuse seamlessly to the modifiers and the attachment collar makes every head/modifier zoom-able.
Used to think so as well but you very quickly grow to love the gear you use and I wouldn't want to go back to Profoto heads having used all the various bron's available. Pulso heads have a zoomable flash tube that work as the Profoto heads, unilite very compact and MobiLED tiny with LED modelling so great to used with battery packs. The latest bron ring light is super as well even though it gets seldom use. Also wortha mention, every bron head ever made going back to the 70's can still plug into a pack unlike the confusing compatibly of the Profoto head range.
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I've owned and used Profoto mono's and packs but now have Move and Scoro packs and I have no concerns over their durability as they are beautifully made. I've been told the Profoto Pro packs were designed with rental markets in mind (their biggest customers) so massively over engineered as rental gear is not generally well looked after. Not sure what you plan on doing with your lighting kit but a good sign of bron durability is a quick surf on ebay and you will find some very old bron kit that looks and works pretty much as they did when they were new however, in comparison the old Profoto gear works but look very battered. I personally feel at this level, build quality and reliability is a given so a level playing field when comparing between the two unless dropping personal gear out of the back of your car is the usual way you look after your lighting kit.
If I owned B1 and D1's mixing bron battery pack's in with them doesn't make much sense to me as they operate quite differently and modifiers not compatible.
I just went and tested the bron move kit at a rental house and found the air trigger is far superior. Also the mounting system of Bron is very counter intuitive to use. Probably a matter of habit.
The only advantage and a big one is its well priced and a lot lighter than the B4. Can move be trickle charged while shooting and keep up on the battery level?
Perhaps one disadvantage on the move is that you have to always choose between recycling Speed and Battery life.
Would be awesome if one day modeling light can switch between day light and tunsteng by one pressing of a switch.
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Felix, you´re missing their main advantage which is the CTC IGBT cut off circuit that enables CT stability over a wide power range and precise short flash duration due to the cut off of the "lighting tail". Their power range is extremely wide.
Regarding fast recycling / battery life that´s just physics and is a matter of fact. For fast recycling you need suck more amps from the battery which draws them quicker. You can attach and charge while using the pack, to still run out of juice will probably be possible and is a matter of how intense your use is.
That said if you have to buy an entire line of broncolor modifiers and are well equipped with Profoto gear it might be better to stay in the system. Cheers!
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Felix, you´re missing their main advantage which is the CTC IGBT cut off circuit that enables CT stability over a wide power range and precise short flash duration due to the cut off of the "lighting tail". Their power range is extremely wide.
Regarding fast recycling / battery life that´s just physics and is a matter of fact. For fast recycling you need suck more amps from the battery which draws them quicker. You can attach and charge while using the pack, to still run out of juice will probably be possible and is a matter of how intense your use is.
That said if you have to buy an entire line of broncolor modifiers and are well equipped with Profoto gear it might be better to stay in the system. Cheers!
Yes Bron has the fastest cut off and the shortest FD. I even tested b4 vs scoro pack and Bron marginally comes out on top. That said the B4 is fast enough for freezing any action that I might shoot.
Yeah I got a lot of Profoto sofboxes and some reflectors and a para. the para is what draws me to buy the barehead+ generator light. So I am one foot in the Bron camp ;)
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@Ulf:
http://www.slach.at
Not kidding at all. Look at it. It's a mess.
I'm not going to rely on a dealer from Germany if I'm in trouble and need some help a.s.a.p. and this is the dealer listed by Broncolor:
Servus...
While I agree that the website is a bit of a mess, I suggest you give Johannes (Slach) a call, or, if you are near Vienna, visit the store: Clickme (http://www.slach.at/kontakt/).
I know him because he is also the Hasselblad rep in Austria, he knows a lot about the stuff he sells and I'd be surprised if there wasn't a chance to try before you buy (Broncolor).
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Felix, you´re missing their main advantage which is the CTC IGBT cut off circuit that enables CT stability over a wide power range and precise short flash duration due to the cut off of the "lighting tail". Their power range is extremely wide.
And a biggy is the totally independant power distribution on both channels on Move and all three channels on Scoro so you don't have to deal with funny pack power distrobution ratios between the heads.
Oh dear, begining to sound like a bron rep now and very OT as this originally was a shout up for the Siros mono head.
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And a biggy is the totally independant power distribution on both channels on Move and all three channels on Scoro so you don't have to deal with funny pack power distrobution ratios between the heads.
Oh dear, begining to sound like a bron rep now and very OT as this originally was a shout up for the Siros mono head.
I really want don't mind if a knowledgeable Bron rep commenting here. It's would even better. I like to hear both sides of arguments.
Even Bron is total independent on output settings, which sounds really wonderful, in reality the B4 is really independent enough so no big deal there. Funny thing is I have used pro8 B4 and d4 in the past and NEVER noticed how they affected my shoot in real life. Any one can perhaps give more in depth comment on this where Bron may have a significant advantage?
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Lets not get too bogged down by this as when comparing specification on bron's top battery and studio packs to Profoto you really are splitting hairs and neither are short on features. However, for me by far the biggest and most important advantage was when I was shopping for powerful battery location lighting (owned and loved AcuteB2 packs for location) I visited a trade show to look at the then new B4 and was shocked and dissapointed by their size. At the same show I then passed the bron stand to which I knew very little about their product range as they not exactly aggressive with marketing unlike Profoto and discovered the Move 1200L. I waved bye bye to all my Profoto gear and the rest is history.
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I waved bye bye to all my Profoto gear and the rest is history.
Can you run the Bron off the mains whilst charging ( as you can with the B4} ?
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Lets not get too bogged down by this as when comparing specification on bron's top battery and studio packs to Profoto you really are splitting hairs and neither are short on features. However, for me by far the biggest and most important advantage was when I was shopping for powerful battery location lighting (owned and loved AcuteB2 packs for location) I visited a trade show to look at the then new B4 and was shocked and dissapointed by their size. At the same show I then passed the bron stand to which I knew very little about their product range as they not exactly aggressive with marketing unlike Profoto and discovered the Move 1200L. I waved bye bye to all my Profoto gear and the rest is history.
I must say if I was looking for a lighting system before the introduction of B1s, I would have definitely gone with Brons move pack as it's far lighter. But the B1 was really the game changer not only on its lower entry pricing but also chord less and plenty powerful for most outdoor use.
For me I shoot mostly on location so wish to air more lights but yet I still wish to use them in a studio while trickle charging it. That's why i am on the market for b4 or a move. It's true that as many of you suggested I should probably just stick to one system.
Where are you based? I find Bron modifiers are more expensive here in New Zealand.
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Can you run the Bron off the mains whilst charging ( as you can with the B4} ?
Yes you can. Although I don't know how fast it's being charged. B4 seems keeping up well if you don't max out your modeling lamp.
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Can't comment on the Bron's - but I moved from Acutes straight to B4's when they were first released. Previous experience. reliability, head office back up and the peace of mind of rental and world wide service facilities all made it an easy decision - the only hard part was popping the tranquillisers when it came to paying the invoice - but there again Bron's aren't exactly a give away!
It's true that the Bron's are lighter but the build quality of the B4's mattered more (to me). Something quietly reassuring about them.
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Can't comment on the Bron's - but I moved from Acutes straight to B4's when they were first released. Previous experience. reliability, head office back up and the peace of mind of rental and world wide service facilities all made it an easy decision - the only hard part was popping the tranquillisers when it came to paying the invoice - but there again Bron's aren't exactly a give away!
It's true that the Bron's are lighter but the build quality of the B4's mattered more (to me). Something quietly reassuring about them.
Do you use other packs from Profoto? What heads to get for B4? ProB+ or the ProHead+? The B heads are way more affordable but lacks compatibility to studio generators.
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Do you use other packs from Profoto? What heads to get for B4? ProB+ or the ProHead+? The B heads are way more affordable but lacks compatibility to studio generators.
From memory, the ProHeads were about 75% more expensive than the Pro-B's - I went Pro-Bs as I'd settled on the B4's for studio use too ( and no, I don't use any other packs). Depending on intended use ... YMMV.
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From memory, the ProHeads were about 75% more expensive than the Pro-B's - I went Pro-Bs as I'd settled on the B4's for studio use too ( and no, I don't use any other packs). Depending on intended use ... YMMV.
The proceeds make proBs such a bargain! Have you had any problem with your B heads (overheating?) due to the lack of fans? I intend to use B4 as my studio pack as well. I think fast trickle charging plus a spare battery will last forever.
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I must say if I was looking for a lighting system before the introduction of B1s, I would have definitely gone with Brons move pack as it's far lighter. But the B1 was really the game changer not only on its lower entry pricing but also chord less and plenty powerful for most outdoor use.
Now that's a matter of personal opinion as I pre ordered the B1's the moment they were announced and was one of the first people in the UK to receive them (earlier than the official release date). However, I only had them a matter of weeks before I sold them as I really didn't like them. Initially I was impressed but grew to hate the size and weight compared to my AcuteB heads and really disliked the enclosed flash tube. Tried the domes but that made them even bigger and having to use a Pro/Acute transport cap to pack them with domes on made the whole thing a PITA to pack, plus the dome just didn't work the same as the Acute/Pro heads.
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Can you run the Bron off the mains whilst charging ( as you can with the B4} ?
You most certainly can but if you have access to mains why use battery as none of the battery generators are a match for a studio pack. If you're in a studio modelling lights are a must and that will kill any battery genarator very quickly, even if plugged into the mains. Studio packs can be used all say long and will not miss a shot and benefit from using much brighter modelling bulbs.
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Broncolor used to have Mobil battery pack that can be turned into studio pack with the Studio Booster. I thought that was quite neat. However specs of the Mobil pack is nothing to shout about.
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Broncolor used to have Mobil battery pack that can be turned into studio pack with the Studio Booster. I thought that was quite neat. However specs of the Mobil pack is nothing to shout about.
I asked my dealer about the possibility of a power dock for the Move and he said zero percent as it would seriously effect sales of the Scoro as that is basically what the Move is, a mini Scoro.
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You most certainly can but if you have access to mains why use battery as none of the battery generators are a match for a studio pack. If you're in a studio modelling lights are a must and that will kill any battery genarator very quickly, even if plugged into the mains. Studio packs can be used all say long and will not miss a shot and benefit from using much brighter modelling bulbs.
That's exactly what the b4 is, a pro8 running on battery. Recycling just as fast if not faster. I tried with the move back a couple days ago and it couldn't keep up. Even with speed mode it's ok but misfire every now and then. But again I was shooting rapid fast with 1dx just for testing purposes. :)
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Studio packs can be used all say long and will not miss a shot and benefit from using much brighter modelling bulbs.
Think there's some confusion here. I can't comment on the Bron's but as far as the Profoto B4's go - they use the same 500W modelling lights as the 8a's ( halve that if two heads into one pack). I've yet to have a problem with them - and no issue with overheating fanless heads.
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Think there's some confusion here. I can't comment on the Bron's but as far as the Profoto B4's go - they use the same 500W modelling lights as the 8a's ( halve that if two heads into one pack). I've yet to have a problem with them - and no issue with overheating fanless heads.
No confusion, plug the B4 into the mains and run two heads out with modelling lights on and your B4 will soon run out of juce. Profoto and bron battery genarators don't run on mains when plugged in, they just charge the battery while in use so eventually they will run out of power.
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That's exactly what the b4 is, a pro8 running on battery. Recycling just as fast if not faster. I tried with the move back a couple days ago and it couldn't keep up. Even with speed mode it's ok but misfire every now and then. But again I was shooting rapid fast with 1dx just for testing purposes. :)
If you want to shoot at full chat with a 1dx then yes the B4 fits the bill. If you want colour and output consistency but at a slightly slower pace in a much more compact location friendly package then the bron is the better. I've also used the MobiLED heads (without pack) plugged straight into the battery or power brick to shoot some quick video (daylight balanced) snd they work great which is a nice option to have.
I do however feel the B4 is probably more suitable for you considering your existing gear and modifiers.
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Think there's some confusion here. I can't comment on the Bron's but as far as the Profoto B4's go - they use the same 500W modelling lights as the 8a's ( halve that if two heads into one pack). I've yet to have a problem with them - and no issue with overheating fanless heads.
Felix - If you're thinking about buying one, IIRC, Profoto are currently running an offer of a free second head with a new B4 plus single head purchase - based on past performance, that probably means that there's a replacement model due within this year. Perhaps check with your dealer, to see if that's in NZ too.
I have spoken to distributor here and they didn't hear any product announcement regarding pro generators. And I am not even aware of the free head deal here as well. Where did you hear that information from?
Also I heard some TTL mono coming soon from Bron side, it should be the B1 competition except should equipped wi better performance.
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No confusion, plug the B4 into the mains and run two heads out with modelling lights on and your B4 will soon run out of juce. Profoto and bron battery genarators don't run on mains when plugged in, they just charge the battery while in use so eventually they will run out of power.
Modeling lamp definitely drains power fast if you had it on max and continuous. I have used B4 with a 500w and a 250w modeling lamp plugged in for product shoot (on proportional ). Lasted forever when you have the pack charging.
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If you want to shoot at full chat with a 1dx then yes the B4 fits the bill. If you want colour and output consistency but at a slightly slower pace in a much more compact location friendly package then the bron is the better. I've also used the MobiLED heads (without pack) plugged straight into the battery or power brick to shoot some quick video (daylight balanced) snd they work great which is a nice option to have.
I do however feel the B4 is probably more suitable for you considering your existing gear and modifiers.
If the Bron are as reliable and consistent I don't mind switching. I have access to nice second hand package at a very good price. Almost half as new :P
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I have spoken to distributor here and they didn't hear any product announcement regarding pro generators. And I am not even aware of the free head deal here as well. Where did you hear that information from?
It was an IIRC remark - not 100% sure and as I'm not in the market to buy one, didn't pay much attention - but I'll check with the dealer next week and PM you if I get confirmation. There wasn't and won't be a product announcement yet - Profoto do this/have done this (a 2nd head free) both with the Acutes and the B3's in the past, possibly with other models too (the D series ?) - at least in the EU. If true it still leaves the new model a good 6/9 months away - quite possibly longer - I don't recall the previous time lags, but they were substantial.
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It was an IIRC remark - not 100% sure and as I'm not in the market to buy one, didn't pay much attention - but I'll check with the dealer next week and PM you if I get confirmation. There wasn't and won't be a product announcement yet - Profoto do this/have done this (a 2nd head free) both with the Acutes and the B3's in the past, possibly with other models too (the D series ?) - at least in the EU. If true it still leaves the new model a good 6/9 months away - quite possibly longer - I don't recall the previous time lags, but they were substantial.
Thanks Manoli. Profoto certainly made a lot of money from the entry OCF line. It's even eating into their pro market. It would be fantastic if they could beef up the affordable acutes.
What could they upgrade on the pro packs? Shorter flash duration and longer battery? TTL and HSS? More efficient modeling lamp? The D1 series certainly could use an upgrade. And the Pro8 introduced in 2008 would be due sooner than the 2012 B4 I guess?
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Also I heard some TTL mono coming soon from Bron side, it should be the B1 competition except should equipped wi better performance.
Very interesting news if true. Felix, do you have a source for this?
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Very interesting news if true. Felix, do you have a source for this?
All I know is definitely TTL will be coming on Bron this year. And it's not in a move form. Lol
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I've yet to have a problem with them - and no issue with overheating fanless heads.
Please be aware the fan is not only to cool the housing / modifiers. It also cools the flash tube, which is crucial at higher power and/or fast strobe series. It won´t show you any overheating but shorten flash tube life. Cheers!
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Alright so I've been talking to Elinchrom directly, asking them for some technical data on their color temperature - and surprisingly they themselves never tested it - but(!) they sent me this:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sfoto.se%2Fteknik%2Fblixt-och-annan-ljusutrustning%2Felinchrom-elc-pro-hd&edit-text=
A swedish photographer did actually test the color accuracy and it's pretty good. Much better than expected! But still I lean towards ProFoto - the flash duration is 'okay' but for splash and movements it's definitely not good enough so I also asked ProFoto whether they have any current developments for the D1 planned or maybe a replacement with short flash duration in mind - but they said they cannot comment on future developments. Understandable but still sucks.Anyway for faster flash duration I still have the Ranger RX with the A head, it's not superfast but alright and much better than the D1.
I took some time to look at the Broncolor in detail and while I like the specs I absolutely don't like their mount, reminds me of the Mulitblitz mount which I have had some bad experience with.
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After much research and comparisons, I have finally decided on a B4 and proB plus combo. Thanks for everyone's contributions and sharings.