Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: dmerger on May 08, 2006, 12:56:28 pm
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I'd appreciate advice on selecting an external hard drive enclosure.
I use Windows XP Pro and have USB 2.0 and Firewire connections available. I use SATA internal drives, and unless advised otherwise I plan to use SATA hard drives in the external enclosure.
I'll use the external hard drives to back up my files. I'm considering using MirrorFolder or a similar program to manage my back ups.
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I use Windows XP Pro and have USB 2.0 and Firewire connections available. I use SATA internal drives, and unless advised otherwise I plan to use SATA hard drives in the external enclosure.
Why the requirement for SATA drives in external enclosures? I think you'll find that most enclosures are IDE/ATA based. I haven't heard of any SATA ones yet, though that doesn't mean there aren't any.
How do you intend to use these drives? You mentioned backup, but is there a requirement for on-the-road portability as well? That would make a difference on what type of enclosure might make sense.
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Why the requirement for SATA drives in external enclosures? I think you'll find that most enclosures are IDE/ATA based. I haven't heard of any SATA ones yet, though that doesn't mean there aren't any.
How do you intend to use these drives? You mentioned backup, but is there a requirement for on-the-road portability as well? That would make a difference on what type of enclosure might make sense.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64802\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
These days a Lacie 160 Mb external USB2 drive costs about $125 (or less). It hardly seems worth it to roll your own.
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I mostly see these for Mac systems, but take a look here:
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/10/12/highpoint/index.php (http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/10/12/highpoint/index.php)
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/10/05/firmtek/index.php (http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/10/05/firmtek/index.php)
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/01/10/sonnetnew/index.php (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/01/10/sonnetnew/index.php)
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/01/10/wi...dates/index.php (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/01/10/wiebetechupdates/index.php)
Haven't used any of these, so have no opinion.
Paul
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I bought an internal hot swap enclosure at Compusa for $24 and used it to hold a 300 gig seagate sata drive externaly. It works great if you have an external Sata conector, power and cable. You can also get a 3 bay unit for $125. Sata drives are much faster than a USB2 external.
Dennis
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These days a Lacie 160 Mb external USB2 drive costs about $125 (or less). It hardly seems worth it to roll your own.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=64807\")
Unless he has a HDD already in which case ~$60 for an enclosure is already much more cost effective. In fact, rolling one's own is more cost effective than a 160GB external considering a 250GB drive can be had for about $80 (80+60=140).
I have a Adaptec USB2/Firewire enclosure that's worked well. Mine is a IDE but they have [a href=\"http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/prodtechindex.html?cat=/Technology/Consumer+Storage&source=home_menu]SATA versions available[/url].
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I too use SATA drives for back up now and there are a PLETHORA of options -- USB, Firewire and at least three separate SATA connection options; with and without RAID; 1, 2, 4, 5 or even 8 drive bay configurations.
Knock yourself out on the research HERE (http://www.cooldrives.com/usb20cdrwdvd.html) and let us know what you decide!
~~~
FWIW if you want an external RAID solution:
Buffalo has their NAS 10/100/1000 and USB2 in a 1TB configuration and is currently selling for about $650 -- though it uses 4@250G IDE drives. (This gives you 750G of usable storage in RAID 5 configuaration.) However, WiebeTech has a 5-bay SATA 1.25 TB RAID solution complete with 5@250 SATA drives (1 full TB of usable R5 storage) that can be had for about $1700 if you shop. Obviously, at these prices the IDE Buffalo NAS is pretty cheap
IF we do the math... Bare drives are selling for about 35 cents per Gig on 250G and smaller drives (IDE or SATA). 500G drives are about 50 cents per Gig. To get redundant back-up in a non-RAID configuration, you need to double these figures. IMO, this makes the 1 TB Buffalo a pretty good buy since it includes RAID, a box and USB or Network connectivity for 87 cents per RAID-ed Gig. Just a thought...
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I have two Firewire external drives ( a LaCIE and an IOGear) and and a BIY external SATA. The SATA is nearly twice as fast as the firewire drives, benchmarked in two different programs. SATA is the way of the future: the specs are triple the thruput speed of Firewire800 and the drives are hot-swappable.
You'll do well with external SATA drives, if that's your inclination. Make sure your motherboard is newer, with up to date BIOS.
Nemo
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Jack,
Great post, thanks!!! I can't wait to try one of those 8 bay monsters.
Dennis
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I bought one of these Coolmax USB 2 enclosures for my SATA drive and I've been quite happy with it. Solidly built with a good aluminum case.
http://www.buy.com/prod/CoolMax_Gemini_CD_...1/10385135.html (http://www.buy.com/prod/CoolMax_Gemini_CD_510B_U2_Hard_Drive_Enclosure_ATA_133_Hi_Speed_USB/q/loc/101/10385135.html)
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I bought a 4 disk SATA box and card from Cooldrives recently. Should arrive tomorrow. I've also seen links to Macgurus and Addonics so there are quite a few out there. There have been a couple of good strings over on FM, check them out.
Mike
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Thanks for all the helpful advice.
I'm now considering a removable SATA rack. Probably one made by Cremax.
http://www.pc-pitstop.com/removable_racks/ (http://www.pc-pitstop.com/removable_racks/)
If I understand correctly, the rack is in two parts. The outer part is installed in one of my unused 5.25" drive bays in the front of my computer case. I connect the outer rack to an open SATA port on my motherboard and also connect a power line from my internal power supply. I then install a SATA HD into the inner rack, which slides in and out of the outer rack.
I'm considering a removable SATA rack because my back-up HD will perform just like a normal internal SATA HD, yet be easy to remove and store in a safe location when not in use.
I intend to use this new HD to "mirror" my "C" drive and, when I run out of space, maybe get another SATA HD just to archive my photos. I'll probably only connect my back-up HD about once every few weeks to keep it current.
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Before you decide on any enclosure, you should read:
http://www.wiebetech.com/whitepapers/Stora...Reliability.pdf (http://www.wiebetech.com/whitepapers/Storage_Enclosure_Reliability.pdf)
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Before you decide on any enclosure, you should read:
http://www.wiebetech.com/whitepapers/Stora...Reliability.pdf (http://www.wiebetech.com/whitepapers/Storage_Enclosure_Reliability.pdf)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64865\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, a good read. But the great thing about the 8-bay box is you can have a 4-drive set in RAID 5 configuration (looks like one physical drive) and then RAID 1 (mirror) that to a second 4-drive RAID set for virtually a total-data-loss-proof system Using Weibie's numbers, your critical data loss event would be lower than .04%, which is very good.
8 250G SATA drives in this box and in that configuration would give you 750 Gig of hyper-protected data -- and cost right around $1000. Not bad for that kind of safety.
A third alternative is a triple RAID 1 -- IOW, keep three sets of mirrored drives and now your critical loss event is down around .01% -- or essentially non-existent. The cost goes up, but only a bit as you only need one more drive, or 9 250G drives to have 750G of even more secure storage. This also solves a direct physical loss event like fire, since one of the redundant sets can easily be stored offsite.
I almost hate to admit this in public since it sounds Freudian, but this last one is my current strategy though with a slight modification. The first good news is I only have to buy three drives to start and not all 9 at once. I keep two mirrored onsite and the third is backed up to monthly and stored offsite. The kicker is once those drives are full, I only need to replace two since they essentially become read-only drives: One of them becomes a current active "Historical Images" drive on my system while one of the remaining duplicates is stored in a safe offsite. The third copy is re-formatted and used in the new trio of current drives. In the event the historical drive fails, I simply clone it right away to a new drive using the data available off the duplicate stored drive.
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My current "C" drive is RAID 1. If I get a third copy of my "C" drive via a removable rack or otherwise, which I can store in another location, I believe I'll have adequate protection. (All my programs and data are on my "C" drive. I have another SATA HD which I use solely for Photoshop scratch disk. When I run out of space on my "C" drive, I'll have to devise another set-up.)
After investigating various options, I may revert to the simplest solution. I may just install my new HD in my case when I need to access the HD, then remove it for storage. I can install or remove a HD in less than 30 seconds. The entire side of my case opens with the opening of a single latch, my HDs just slide into the HD bays and lock with a couple of latches, and the power and SATA connections are easily connected.
Installing my new HD may not be quite as fast or convenient as a removable rack, however, so I'm still leaning toward a removable rack. I've narrowed it down to one of the following: MB122SKGF-1S, MB122SKGF-S, MB123SK-1S and MB1213SK-S.
http://www.cremax.com/internal_single.htm (http://www.cremax.com/internal_single.htm)
I have to determine which model will best connect with my current components.
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If you think you sound Freudian get this. I wish I could have this whole drive system mounted in a fireproof safe. We all could sleep better if there was a more secure system than yours even. Thanks for the outline of the 8 bay system. I know have 11 external usb drives that are very slow and almost imposable to catalog. Your system would be so much faster.
Dennis
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http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/09/re...d_storage_plus/ (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/09/review_maxtor_shared_storage_plus/)
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Buffalo has their NAS 10/100/1000 and USB2 in a 1TB configuration and is currently selling for about $650 -- though it uses 4@250G IDE drives. (This gives you 750G of usable storage in RAID 5 configuaration.) However, WiebeTech has a 5-bay SATA 1.25 TB RAID solution complete with 5@250 SATA drives (1 full TB of usable R5 storage) that can be had for about $1700 if you shop. Obviously, at these prices the IDE Buffalo NAS is pretty cheap
IF we do the math... Bare drives are selling for about 35 cents per Gig on 250G and smaller drives (IDE or SATA). 500G drives are about 50 cents per Gig. To get redundant back-up in a non-RAID configuration, you need to double these figures. IMO, this makes the 1 TB Buffalo a pretty good buy since it includes RAID, a box and USB or Network connectivity for 87 cents per RAID-ed Gig. Just a thought...
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=64826\")
Jack,
I have been using a Buffalo TeraStation NAS 1.0 TB configured in RAID 5 for 6 months now, so far so good. I don't think that it can be connected with USB2.0 though. The 2 USB ports enable you to connect other HD to the unit, and these will then be accessible through the network.
[a href=\"http://www.buffalotech.com/products/storage.php]http://www.buffalotech.com/products/storage.php[/url]
The read/write times are not too bad, although it is a 1000 LAN connection, but the main problem comes from the File Browser of PS CS 1... it becomes virtually un-usable...
My next enclosure will probably be SATA based. Let's hope that perpendicular technologies will have made 500 GB HD cheap enough by year end...
Regards,
Bernard
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I don't think that it can be connected with USB2.0 though.
Ah, I did not know that, so LAN is required. Regardless, it is still a very good unit.
Because drives are getting so cheap -- I just paid $250 for some Seagate 500G SATA drives -- my triple-RAID5 solution seems pretty solid, especially as technology and pricing moveforward.
Cheers,
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Ah, I did not know that, so LAN is required. Regardless, it is still a very good unit.
Because drives are getting so cheap -- I just paid $250 for some Seagate 500G SATA drives -- my triple-RAID5 solution seems pretty solid, especially as technology and pricing moveforward.
Cheers,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=65008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just remember to never have all three sets of drives on site at the same time. Meteors and all that.
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Ah, I did not know that, so LAN is required. Regardless, it is still a very good unit.
Cheers,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=65008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, it is still pretty good, just not as fast as it would be with USB2.0 or firewire.
Regards,
Bernard
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I came here looking for speed comparisons, after reading the post, I did my own test. I tested the speeds of FireWire 800/FireWire 400/Gigabit Ethernet.
So I think the NAS with gigabit is the best way to go. It allows expandability to a network or just connected via a ethernet cross over cable to one station. Gigbit is really cheap now, I picked up a 8 port gig switch for under 50 bucks.
Setting:
Workstation: G5 2.7 Ghz, 4GB DDR SDRAM, Mac OS 10.4.5
Local Storage: Internal SATA disk 234 GB HFS+ Journaled and LaCie d2
150 GB HFS+ Hard Drive Extreme with triple interface USB 2.0,
FireWire 400, FireWire 800.
Network: Cat 6, Linksys SRW2016 16-Port 10/100/1000 Gigabit Switch
Server: Xserver 10.2.8 Dual 1GHz, 2 GB Memory with internal ATA and
SCSI RAID 5.
File: 1 GB Photoshop PSD file.
Workstation internal SATA disk to server ATA disk-29.5 sec.
Workstation to external disk via FireWire 400-29.8 sec.
Workstation to external disk via FireWire 800-17.9 sec.
Workstation to external disk via USB 2.0-1 min. 2.6 sec.
Conclusion: Gigabit Ethernet is dam fast, USB 2.0 is dam slow
compared to FireWire 400 under my normal and typical working
environment.
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These days a Lacie 160 Mb external USB2 drive costs about $125 (or less). It hardly seems worth it to roll your own.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64807\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I can't recommend a Lacie drive. I bought two of them and regretted it.
first, almost all HDDs sold in third-party enclosures are only covered by a 1 year warranty while you can get up to 5 years warranty if you buy the drive separately.
second, the Lacie (and some other companies) enclosures have hardware limits on the visible capacity of the enclosed drive, but Lacie will not tell you what that limit is unless you ask specifically, and even then they might not answer. if you buy a 160GB and later decide to replace the drive with a 400GB unit, you're out of luck because the enclosure is probably limited to 250GB.
third, one of my Lacie enclosures failed just outside of the 1 year warranty. it would have cost almost as much to get it repaired by Lacie as to buy a new one.
don't buy a Lacie. get a decent enclosure (perhaps under the guidance of one or more of the available reviews; the FireWire chip and the power supply seem to be the most important aspects of the enclosures) and get an HDD with a reasonable warranty; at least 3 years.
I'm in the process of getting a new 2.5" drive for my Hyperdrive. the Seagate (Momentus) drives all come with 5 years warranty. you'll never get that from Lacie.
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Re. externals
What Gregory said is true to a point. I "roll my own" and buy off the shelf depending on time and resources.
In the first year, LaCie has sent back the drives with NEW disk inside if they went bad. With the disk mfgs. warrantees (including Seagate), you often get back a refurbished disk. Mfg. replacement disk have never been any good. They arrive dead or soon fail. I have two hardware RAID 5s with lots of ATA disk and have gone through many disk from many mfgs. 1 year to 5 years. But at 5 years, the capacity is way too small anyway. Any replacement is almost useless. An example is a 4 year old disk with 10 GBs, they send you a refurbished 10 GB that is too small and slow for anything. In 5 years SATA will be obsolete. Long warrantee with computer equipment may not be worth the extra cost.
I have not checked into it lately, but some bridge boards firmware can be upgraded to take higher capacities.
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I have a Dell Precision Workstation with an internal RAID 0 config for speed. I have a PCI-Express Firewire 400/800 card installed. I have an external FW800 Lacie Extreme Big Disk 500GB for working storage for video. I have a Maxtor 300GB OneTouch II external FW400 drive for daily back up of the My Documents folder on my internal RAID drive. I have 2 Adaptec external FW400/USB2.0 drives with Western Digital 300GB drives daisy chained via FW400 to my Maxtor drive.
This system gives me lots of flexibilty.
I just purchased another Adaptec external drive enclosure, available at Best Buy for $60. It's a nice sleek aluminum enclosure that does not require a fan, therefore, it's silent. The Western Digital 300GB IDE drives are purchased online for about $120. The result is a really nice and inexpensive FW400/USB 2.0 compatiable 300GB external drive. I plan on using this 3rd drive to back up MyDocuments folder once a month and keep it at my office (off site).
I've been using Restrospect Pro 7 for backing software, but, Microsoft SyncToy is great for manual backups and it's free.
Finally every 6 months, I back up all of my image files from the preceeding 6 months to DVD-Rs using Archive Creator 3.0.
Bud James
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I have a Windows system with only one 250 Gig HD S-ATA with 3 partitions
1- C drive 30 gig for OS and software
2- D data 30 gig drive for documents, mail etc.
3- E work drive 190 gig for projects in progress. When a project is finished I copy the directory to the last external HD.
External via 2 Build in Bays for S-ATA drives in Alu cases like the MXQ-SS-300. http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-serial-ata-...losure-lcd.html (http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-serial-ata-mobile-rack-enclosure-lcd.html)
2 bays so I can copy from one to the other.
I have now 6 extra HD each 250 Gig which are stored in a vault. An index off each drive is on the system for search. This works very well for me.
Note: the old trays have wired connections for the HD as you can see on the pictures on the site. They are vry fagile. The new once have a fixed connector and you slip in the HD very easely and without any problem because the room you have with the wires is very,very small!!
Henk
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Hi,
You need fans for HDD. Passive cooling is only good for very short periods of spin time.
For near silent external cases I found these recommended by a gamer:
http://www.amselectronics.com/Products/Ven...s/Venus_ds.html (http://www.amselectronics.com/Products/VenusSeries/Venus_ds/Venus_ds.html)
With any ambient noise such as the typical CPU case fan these cases are silent. I also like their little 2.5" enclosure for onsite backup when using a laptop. I'm a fan of Seagate HDD and roll my own.
-- Robert.