Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Dinarius on February 10, 2016, 12:04:08 pm
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I'm strictly PC back at base, but I'm considering replacing my old location laptop with a Mac.
My camera is a Hasselblad H3Dll 39MS, which requires FireWire. I currently use a FireWire adapter card in a slot in my PC laptop.
What are my options with Mac? I know nothing about them.
Should I go the FireWire port route, or the Thunderbolt/FireWire Adapter route?
Thanks.
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It's pretty simple - take any Mac, add in the Thunderbolt to FW800 (add in the USB-C break out if you go for the 12") and one of the following:
Option 1:
https://www.digitalback.com/product/ieee-1394-portable-solution/ plus 2 FW400-FW800 cables
It's a power injecting firewire hub that's battery powered, so you can tether for the Multishot functions.
Option 2:
https://www.digitalback.com/product/fw800-powered-hub/ plus 2 FW800-FW800 cables
http://paulcbuff.com/vm120.php
It's a powered firewire hub that should take the drain off the laptop as the laptop itself can't power the back. Note, this would not work if you wanted to use the back on a different camera,
Apple also has 1 extremely outdated model of 13" laptop that's user serviceable/upgrade-able, and has a native fw800 port. I don't know off hand how much power the fw800 port puts out, but I'm hesitant to put you into a 'new' computer that's from June 2012. The only model with the port is the 'June 2012 non-Retina'
http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/13
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add in the USB-C break out if you go for the 12"
I don't think that the 12" has support for thunderbolt or firewire in any form.
Also: in practice, the thunderbolt to firewire adapter often outputs enough power for Hasselblad cameras. At least, it has been my experience.
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Should I go the FireWire port route, or the Thunderbolt/FireWire Adapter route?
Thanks.
Any mac with firewire is probably going to be too old/slow for you. The thunderbolt adaptor works just fine.
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I don't think that the 12" has support for thunderbolt or firewire in any form.
Also: in practice, the thunderbolt to firewire adapter often outputs enough power for Hasselblad cameras. At least, it has been my experience.
In my experience with a first generation Retina MacBook Pro, the power is sufficient only if I use a short FireWire cable (3 feet). When I must use a regular length FireWire cable (15 feet), I need to use a powered repeater. I have not tried any intermediate lengths.
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I don't think that the 12" has support for thunderbolt or firewire in any form.
Also: in practice, the thunderbolt to firewire adapter often outputs enough power for Hasselblad cameras. At least, it has been my experience.
You're right, the 12" doesn't have anything - I was getting ahead of myself with the new USB-C 3.1 which will allow Thunderbolt2 over the USB-C, but that's not currently available.
I think the Multishot requires a higher amount of power, and unlike the H5 backs, you can't switch off the power over firewire. Then again, you may be able to go FW800 9-pin to FW400 4-pin (removing any power options) and back to FW800 9-pin.
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I think the Multishot requires a higher amount of power, and unlike the H5 backs, you can't switch off the power over firewire.
Then one should use a firewire power injector or a powered hub to feed the camera.
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Thanks for all the replies.
Right now, I'm using a card that looks exactly like this.....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Startech-com-ExpressCard-FireWire-Laptop-Adapter/dp/B003N3J354
...with an old DELL laptop, and everything runs like a train.
The problem is that I can't run the latest Hasselblad Phocus software on this laptop, hence the desire to change. If I could run the software, I wouldn't change the laptop. I use it for nothing but capture from camera.
But, all this talk of "power" issues freaks me out. I shoot multi-shot almost exclusively, so that's a must.
Thanks again.
D.
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If you're usually shooting multi-shot, then I'm going to hazard a guess that A/C power is available. If so, then you wouldn't need the portable solution and you could just use one of these http://www.unibrain.com/products/firerepeater-800-pro-5-ports/ , together with two FireWire 800 cables and the Thunderbolt/FireWire Adapter (get a couple of spares). Then you will not have power issues.
I'm talking with Unibrain about using an external laptop battery as a power source for the repeater. So far they have told me that some customers have done this, but they didn't know which batteries worked best. Now all I need to do is find a male-to-male jack with the right sizes and the location power issues will be solved without having to go to FireWire 400, through a repeater, and then back to FireWire 800.
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I don't think there are any new laptops (mac or pc) with a firewire port or expresscard slots. The only solution readily available is the thunderbolt to firewire adapter from Apple.
That adapter outputs 7W max, instead of the standard 10W of firewire. Some cameras complain, but I don't think it is even related to multishot.
In any case, if your camera complains, firewire power is a relative straightforward affair that can be hacked by any person moderately gifted with an x-acto knife. All what the camera wants is to be connected to a battery delivering between about 12V and 15V and there are a few ways to do that. You can:
-use a powered hub and attach the battery to the hub or
-use a firewire power injector to connect the same battery or
-simply cut a cheap firewire cable open and connect the right cables to the battery (effectively making a power injector yourself).
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Thanks again for the replies.
Looks like the least messy way to go in Thunderbolt > Firewire. The only question is, does my model of camera receive enough power?
Will see what my dealer has to say.
Many thanks.
D.
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I have the same camera and power it from my MacBook Pro 2010, which has a Firewire port.
If it is attached to the H camera then you need a camera battery anyway. If to a view camera then you need to power the back.
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I'm strictly PC back at base, but I'm considering replacing my old location laptop with a Mac.
My camera is a Hasselblad H3Dll 39MS, which requires FireWire. I currently use a FireWire adapter card in a slot in my PC laptop.
What are my options with Mac? I know nothing about them.
Should I go the FireWire port route, or the Thunderbolt/FireWire Adapter route?
Thanks.
I think you should stick with PC for the hasselblad. Ran into all kinds of wierd problem trying to use a mac with my h3dii-39. However, my p65+ has a terrible time in windows. It just depends on what your using.
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Right now, I'm using a card that looks exactly like this.....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Startech-com-ExpressCard-FireWire-Laptop-Adapter/dp/B003N3J354
I would like to correct what I wrote. I just found out that Lenovo still builds notebooks with a slot for this kind of cards: their "thinkpad" series. For example, the L440, L450 or L540 models, which are not very expensive. These may be your best ant cheapest option.
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I think you should stick with PC for the hasselblad. Ran into all kinds of wierd problem trying to use a mac with my h3dii-39.
I have the H3DII-39 and have no trouble with a mac laptop. I know several top Hasselblad shooters all using Mac. I know none using a PC.
Basically if you use Hasselblad you need two things - Phocus software which is really made for Mac as it uses the OS for raw files, and Firewire which is an Apple product.
Also the PC firewire ports do not have enough power, though as mentioned new Mac ones are thunderbolt with adaptor.
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adapters, hubs, powered....does not really sound like a nice location solution.
my retina 1st gen with h4d-40 made a lot of problems and hasselblad didn't come up with the suggestion to use powered hubs back then. I blame the apple adapter, however the Hasselblad system should be robust enough to recover from this without having to reset the whole system.
If your windows laptop works, keep it for the location setup and save yourselves some headaches.
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Part of what folks are ignoring is that the power available on the fw800 port has varied between Apple laptops, mostly due to other components on the motherboard, and really, the luck of the user. You will not harm the camera trying a direct connection, though I'd recommend a shorter fw800 cable to maximize the power that gets to the far end. If it doesn't work, or is inconsistent or gives you a black frame, then you know exactly what's needed.
I see things like the Lenovo ThinkPad W520 (refurbished) has a 4pin firewire jack, so you're a 4-9 pin cable away from fully functional without any power hit on the laptop. There's always options, and knowing what issue may crop up and how to deal with it should give you enough to consider with what ever purchase you make.
We could have backed up, found out what laptop you currently are using, and discussing if a few upgrades to it (SSD, Win7, RAM) would make it fully functional without the new platform (Mac) and the associated investments.
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I have the H3DII-39 and have no trouble with a mac laptop. I know several top Hasselblad shooters all using Mac. I know none using a PC.
Basically if you use Hasselblad you need two things - Phocus software which is really made for Mac as it uses the OS for raw files, and Firewire which is an Apple product.
Also the PC firewire ports do not have enough power, though as mentioned new Mac ones are thunderbolt with adaptor.
The PC firewire ports do have enough power. I power my h3d-39II everyday with it when I tether to shoot food. I am also using phocus. All in windows. However, in any type of apple environment, all hell broke loose. In my limited experience it just seems like Hasselblad stuff seems to do well in a windows environment.
Also, to avoid any confusion, when I am tethering, I am not relying on any other form of power like a repeater or powered hub. I am not using the back on a body with a battery. I shoot it on a Fuji gx680. I don't know where this myth came from that PC firewire ports don't have enough power to power a back.
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Phew! Consensus there most certainly is not! ::)
For the record, with my current PC laptop (running Vista) with the Firewire express card, will run the camera in multi-shot mode via mains or battery. The camera is also battery powered.
I want to be able to use the current version of Phocus, which will not run on Vista.
I should probably look into whether or not a more recent version of Windows (which CAN run the most recent version of Phocus) will run on this laptop.
That said, it's useful to know that Lenovo are still making laptops with Firewire ports.
I haven't had a chance to speak to my dealer, so I'm still awaiting a definite answer on the issue of whether or not this model of camera will be powered by a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter. But, it's also useful to know that a 2012 Macbook Pro, with its Firewire port, does the job.
Thanks.
D.
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I want to be able to use the current version of Phocus, which will not run on Vista.
I should probably look into whether or not a more recent version of Windows (which CAN run the most recent version of Phocus) will run on this laptop.
D.
There is a Microsoft download to check Windows 7 compatibility with 32 or 64 bit alternatives. I run Vista on a Toshiba but 7 would only run in 32 bit mode so I have left it as it is.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=20
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There is a Microsoft download to check Windows 7 compatibility with 32 or 64 bit alternatives. I run Vista on a Toshiba but 7 would only run in 32 bit mode so I have left it as it is.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=20
I don't know about vista but the latest phocus works in windows 10 and windows 7 64bit.
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I have a custom buy model 2011 17" MBP, fixed by Apple for free, and with the SSD it tests as fast as my current MBP.
Edmund
I don't know about vista but the latest phocus works in windows 10 and windows 7 64bit.
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Well I went and bought two Unibrain FireWire 800 repeaters (https://www.1394store.com/eshop/product.asp?dept%5Fid=61&pf%5Fid=2501), one Maxoak external laptop battery (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_2_6?k=maxoak+50000mah+185wh+6+port&sprefix=maxoak) and some spare 5.5/2.1 male-to-male dc power connectors (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DX72UXW/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=1455647471&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=valley+5.5%2F2.1+dc+power).
I can confirm that these all fit together nicely. What I cannot confirm is that they are necessary. I had initially failed to get sufficient power for my H4D-40 with the Thunderbolt/FireWire adapter and a 5 meter (15ish foot) FireWire cable, but was able to use the 1 meter cable. I have tethered with a 1 meter cable ever since.
Having bought the above I set out to test the new gear. It worked great. I then set out to show that it was needed, as my previous experience had indicated. Here's the rub, everything worked great without the added power. 1 meter or 5 meter with no repeater, two 5 meter cables with a repeater and no power, 3 5 meter cables with 2 repeaters and no power, all worked great. The laptop I used is the same one I used initially, a first generation retina MBP.
Bottom line is that a MacBook Pro with the Thunderbolt/FireWire adapter may work fine with no external power, but if you do have issues a very simple setup exist to inject power into the mix without going to FireWire 400.
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Hi
I have the h3d1139. My 2010 macbook pro died and I went for replacement model with firewire. Only 8gb ram and that worked great with my imac but the macbook is slooow running phocus tethered. I know 16gb is recommended, had to forget about it on last shoot. To me it looks like the firewire port on the mac doesn't give a tight connection which is where I suspect the problem is.
Shaun
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I see that two Lenovo laptops offer Thunderbold 3, the P50 and the P70, but at a price. They are not cheap.
http://shop.lenovo.com/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/
Does Thunderbolt 3 offer more "umph" than 2?
Thanks.
D.
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I can happily power my Phase One H25 with my tiny 11" MacBook Air and the Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter.
However....
I use a small FireWire hub and I power that hub by using a USB to 12v cable (available from China via eBay for a few dollars) and power this from the Air too.
My older 13" MacBook Pro with built in FireWire has no problem powering the back by itself.
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I am using an iMac, not a laptop but I may be able to add some information.
iMacs and Mac laptops provide 7 watts to the FW cable. I am shooting with a CF-22MS and Phocus will lose the multi-shot capability of my back. I can shoot single shots all day but I need to restart Phocus or unplug/plug the FW cable for Phocus to once again recognize my back's multi-shot capability.
I run two longish cables that work without problems when attached to a MacPro. (Mac>Lindy 5m Active Extension Cable> TetherTools 4.6m to the digital back.) The iMac's frugal delivery of only 7 watts at the FW port has me convinced I need to buy a powered FW Repeater to kick up the wattage across the cable run.
A few more watts over the FW cable should solve my problems with Phocus not recognizing multi-shot capability after 5-10 minutes of idle time. (BTW, I have FW ports because all my Macs are 2010s so I can still run Rosetta.).