Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: eronald on January 20, 2016, 01:40:23 pm
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Don't be shy, write :)
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How about never bought it...too expensive...living with A7R until price drops to under $2,500.
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For a v2 flagship of a work-in-progress system IMO it's pretty darn good. If I use it like my simple & lovely Contax Aria—manual focus Y/C Zeiss lenses, aperture priority or manual metering, film-era ISO range—it handles the brief very well. Also works well with the 25–85mm range of AF lenses I've put together so far. There are nits to pick, but I rarely focus on this unless I don't like a gizmo in the first place…
-Dave-
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Hi,
I really like the A7rII. Why?
- Great image quality
- I can use Canon lenses
- I can use the HCam Master TS
- It can be configured to my needs
The major issues I have:
- Short battery life
- The menu system is a good example of a horrible menu layout
- It could be that the Sony lens program is a bit overpriced while a bit underwhelming
But, I see the camera as an imaging device. If it delivers on image quality, I am happy. The A7rII does it, with Canon lenses…
Best regards
Erik
Don't be shy, write :)
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I like it a lot for all the usual reasons: size, IQ, EVF, articulating screen, eye-af, etc.
But the camera is simply more complex than my old canon and I find I make more technical errors when shooting (e.g. leaving the wrong setting on). There are also some very annoying behaviors like not being able to use magnification unless you explicitly switch to MF mode or the IR remote triggering autofocus even when you have AF w/ shutter set to off (this one cost me several ruined images).
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It is the best camera I have ever used. Not only does it deliver very good image quality, it does so with ease. It is often stated that to be able to gain the advantages of high resolution sensors, one needs good shot discipline. This is hardly the case for the a7r2. The total lack of shutter shock (EFC) or mirror slap in combination with IBIS, great high iso and a nice implementation of auto iso, make that I can simply concentrate on the image, and let the camera take care on getting it all. This was for me the biggest surprise after buying this camera. Never before was it so easy to get everything right. And when you need a tripod, usually a light one is good enough, since the camera does not generate any vibration that needs damping.
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I'm very happy with mine.
The image quality is top-notch. On a par with or slightly better than my (5 years old but 5x the price) Hasselblad H3D31-II, in ideal studio situations. And much better in other situations like low light: the thing which really impresses me with the Sony is the wide range of situations in which it will produce great results.
The IBIS together with the fast primes (I have the 28 f/2, 55 f/1.8, 35 f/1.4) and good noise performance means that I can shoot models in available light situations where the light is gorgeous, but overall illumination levels are very low. These shots were out of the range of my 7D (and probably eight stops outside the range of the Hasselblad!) for me to hand-hold and the model to stay still enough for good results.
It has also become my go-to camera for landscape work, replacing my Panasonic GH4 for everything except time lapse (where the Panasonic's in-built time lapse plus MUCH longer battery life makes it a better choice). The Sony weather sealing seems to be adequate for my purposes at least, the weight is more than the Panasonic kit but the image quality gains make up for it.
The image quality gains over the GH4 are not just in megapixels- the lenses are better, the noise floor is subjectively lower, the dynamic range is better, and the IBIS means I can get away without a tripod a lot more of the time, which makes me happy (and more that counterbalances the lighter weight of the GH4 and lenses).
Electronic first curtain shutter is the other magic ingredient, along with good options for auto ISO. In the field, I leave the Sony on Aperture priority, auto ISO but set so the shutter speed is required to be "normal" (1/focal length). The camera then does a really good job of optimising shutter speed and ISO to give me optimum settings for my chosen aperture. This is much faster and better than any similar system I've used before. The results are that I don't feel the need for a tripod in the mountains nearly as often, and the results aren't just "well it will do if you don't pixel peep", but "can't tell whether I used a tripod or not at 100% zoom".
The Sony's video is on a par with the GH4 for me, which makes it very useful as a "Swiss Army knife" camera in the mountains.
Main issues that bother me with the Sony.
1) The menu system is a mess. It needs a ground up rethink, and misleadingly-labelled items that refer to very specific corner use cases need to be relegated to a "stuff you'll probably never use" menu.
2) There is no good way of over-riding the camera's choice of focus point. The face detection and eye AF are good enough for serious use. I find myself firing off more shots "in case" with the Sony than with the Hasselblad, because it does miss focus on models more often than the focus-and-recompose method I use with the Hasselblad. But in my studio settings it gets it right often enough that I just leave it in face/eye AF and shoot a few more shots in case. More thought needs to be given to focus over-ride ergonomics when there are so many PDAF points to choose from. There ARE ways, but they are cumbersome and impossible for me to do with the camera to my eye.
3) The battery life could be better. I don't have the problem that others seem to with this- one or at most two batteries last me a shooting day. But undeniably I am watching the battery use on the Sony in a way I never had to with other cameras.
4) The lack of built-in timelapse is annoying. You can download a free app for it, but a) that's a pain in the ass to do and b) it doesn't look very comprehensive. So I've not bothered. Allied to the admittedly very limited battery life, I'll stick to the GH4 here. (With two fresh batteries in the GH4 extended grip, it's capable of running a timelapse from dusk 'til dawn).
5) I wish the screen was fully articulated.
6) Panorama mode is surprisingly OK, but the JPEGs seem to suffer either from subtle double images or over-sharpening. This is no issue in print but noticeable at 1:1. A little tune up here would be nice.
7) Lossless compressed RAW would be nice but I don't really care, drives are cheap.
8) I'd like the option to leave peaking on when autofocussing, for confirmation purposes. But shrug, it is great to have this and the auto-magnify thing when manually focussing so I'm just being picky. In fact if there is one general design comment I have it is that too many things on the camera can interact with other settings- it is a bit too frequent to find a menu option greyed out, and have to figure out why. So if the Sony Engineers can disentangle this modality a bit, it would be nice.
9) Skin tones could be better. It's acceptable, but not as nice as Hasselblad or Canon skin tones.
But don't get me wrong. All of those points are mere niggles on what has become my primary image-taking machine. It's a damned impressive camera and produces great images in a wider range of situations than any other camera I've ever owned.
I bought it to replace my Canon 7D for available light situations. I didn't expect it to also be edging out the Hasselblad in the studio and the Panasonic in the mountains.
Cheers, Hywel
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9) Skin tones could be better. It's acceptable, but not as nice as Hasselblad or Canon skin tones.
and how did you discern camera vs particular software/profile input in that matter, unless you talk about OOC JPG ?
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and how did you discern camera vs particular software/profile input in that matter, unless you talk about OOC JPG ?
Only in that when I process through my usual chains - either Apple Aperture or Capture One Pro - I find the skin tones need more work to get them to where I like them than the Canons do either in C1 or Aperture, or the Hasselblad does in Phocus (which I export as Tiffs for final tuning/skin smoothing/etc. in Aperture). Specifically, it doesn't seem to "hold on" to good skin tones in mixed lighting temperature scenarios quite as easily, without more fine tuning.
So it is not necessarily a reflection of the camera per se, just my experience of using it in my own workflow at the present time.
Cheers, Hywel.
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I took 2 a7RII's on a trip last fall, and here's what I had to say:
First off, the things the camera is not particularly good for:
Fast action, such as sports or some kinds of wildlife photography. The native lenses just don’t autofocus fast enough, and the frame rate doesn’t go high enough.
Use with very long lenses and nonstatic situations. The manual focusing on the a7RII and its siblings is about as good as it gets for a full frame camera, and in static situations that’s all you need. However, native long lenses are thin on the ground. I’m not a Canon shooter, so I can’t use the Canon big iron lenses, but that may be a way around this issue.
Single shot, nosebleed megapixel landscapes. For that, you should probably buy an 100 megapixel Phase One, and be done with it.
It’s actually a pretty short list. I might think of a few more items, but those are the ones that might make a difference to me. How I deal with that list is by using the Nikon gear for fast action and/or long lenses, and stitching for extremely high resolution landscapes. If I can’t stitch, then 42 megapixels is going to have to be enough for me, and I don’t feel deprived at this point. My Hasselblad H2D-39 received very little use before I got my hands on the a7RII. It has received no use at all since.
What’s so great about the a7RII on a trip? I hardly know where to start.
Electronic first curtain shutter (EFCS). The camera shares this feature with all of the alpha 7 cameras except the a7R, which, it could be argued, before the a7RII came out, needed it the most. It is great to have a high megapixel wonder and not worry about shutter shock. I note that the Nikon D810 also has EFCS, and is quite usable on a tripod once you get used to pressing the shutter release twice. However, because of the way that Nikon implemented it, and more fundamentally, the presence of a flapping mirror on the camera, EFCS is not usable when the camera is handheld, and, although I took a tripod on this trip, I never used it.
In body image stabilization (IBIS). This is a real confidence builder, and let me use ISO 100 in situations where I would’ve had to switch to 640 or 800 without it.
Autofocus performance. As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, for static subjects, the autofocus accuracy of the a7RII exceeds that of any camera I’ve ever used, not by a small amount. When the lenses are wide-open, it’s almost as accurate as manual focusing. When they are stopped down a bit, it is absolutely as accurate, unless the subject contrast is weirdly tricky. I am not used to being able to zoom in to one-to-one in Photoshop and to reliably see pixel-level sharpness, but, since I’ve been using the a7RII, I’m beginning to trust the camera more. I still shoot a few extra shots of a really good subject just in case the first one isn’t in critical focus, but so far in my experience with the a7RII, I’ve never had use those shots.
Live histogram and zebras. Having a live histogram makes exposure in fast-moving situations easier, but you do have to take it with a grain of salt. I wish the Sony engineers could’ve provided a three channel live histogram overlayed like the one in Lightroom. Before this trip, I’d never used the zebras, but after getting caught out by the live histogram in one situation, I I now use them with the level set to 100+%. If you’re not going for the whole ETTR ball of wax, that seems to be a good number. It's a little conservative, but it's as aggressive as the camera allows.
The two speed ISOlessness. Having the increase in conversion gain occurring at ISO 640 is a great thing, allowing almost all photographs to be exposed using the camera set to one of two ISO levels. This simultaneously provides simplicity and high-quality.
The ability to use just about any lens ever made for full frame cameras.
What’s merely good?
42 megapixels. How dare I call the full frame camera with the second-highest pixel count merely good? Not because it’s not a 50 megapixel Canon. It’s just that 42 megapixels is not much of an improvement over the 36 megapixel standard set by previous generation Sonys and Nikons.
Size and weight. Adding IBIS to the camera caused the a7RII to bulk up a little bit. It’s still a relatively small and light full frame camera, just not as strikingly so as it once was.
Battery life. Some of you are probably surprised that I didn’t put this in the negative category. I find the battery life to be entirely adequate, if not up to the standards of pro-level cameras like the D4, or even the D810. During the entire trip, I never had to replace a battery in the field. In fact, although I brought two chargers, I only plugged one of them in, and never had a queue of more than one battery awaiting charging.
The direct exposure bias adjustment dial. I’ve figured out how to incorporate this handy feature into my exposure strategy: http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11768
What’s ugly?
The menu system. I devoted a Last Word post to that (http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11711).
The automatic EVF/LCD switching. This is been well covered by me and others. When you bend over to have a good look at the LCD screen on the back of the camera, especially if you’re wearing a hat, the screen goes dark. This “feature” also keeps the camera from being as useful at waist level as it otherwise might be. There is a great workaround which came from a reader, which gets you the equivalent of the a directly accessed manual two-way (EVF/LCD) toggle on the Leica M240. Set C3, the custom button next to the finder, to “Finder/Monitor Sel.” Then go to “Gear>4>Finder/Monitor” and set it to manual. I didn’t know about this on the trip, but, since the EVF on the a7RII is better than the ones on its forbearers, by the end of the trip, I was holding the camera up to my eye whenever I needed to access the menu system outdoors.
No passive LCD panel on top of the camera. This means that you have to go into the menu system for things that would be more simply and directly accessed on Nikon or Canon systems.
Controls too easily moved. The dials, buttons, and wheels all have a light action. Sony could take a lesson in haptics from Nikon and Canon here. Some have complained about the new lock on the mode control. This fixes a problem that I didn’t have; one of the few controls on the previous cameras that I didn’t inadvertently misadjust was the mode dial.
A few more details, and some pictures, are here: http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11839
Jim
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Great summary from Jim, including a couple of niggles I forgot, specifically:
Live histogram and zebras.
The only time I've seen this done RIGHT is on REDs. The RED histogram has separate RGB, plus "goal posts" at either end of the histogram to show how many pixels are piled up in the "danger of noise" and "clipping" zones. The camera has a RAW mode which displays the actual raw histogram (more or less). Most useful of all it has traffic lights to show when each channel starts to clip.
I think ALL modern cameras should have clipping traffic lights and live RGB histograms.
The direct exposure bias adjustment dial.
I use Aperture priority, auto shutter, and either auto ISO or ISO 100/800, plus the bias dial, for everything except flash in the studio.
It's a fluid and good way to work for me, I really like that aspect of the control layout.
The automatic EVF/LCD switching.
Oh yes, I forgot. That is a pain the arse- it is poorly-implemented. I'd like to see a fully-articulated screen as I said but fixing this would remove an annoyance. it is possible to switch manually but really it just needs the threshold of the sensor tuning up a bit so it works as intended.
Cheers, Hywel
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.Oh yes, I forgot. That is a pain the arse- it is poorly-implemented. I'd like to see a fully-articulated screen as I said but fixing this would remove an annoyance. it is possible to switch manually but really it just needs the threshold of the sensor tuning up a bit so it works as intended.
You probably know about this workaround, but some others may not:
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=12108
Doesn't work on earlier a7x cameras. I don't know if it works on the a7SII.
Jim
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I'd be even happier if I had one of these.
AJS 7R
(https://p2.liveauctioneers.com/884/15198/4948743_1_l.jpg)
There is some sensuality and human anatomy on this bike. The engine is almost organic shaped.
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Hi,
Zebras is just a good example of how ill conceived the Sony menu system is. I really like being able to assign zebras to a customer button. But, there should be an option to toggle zebras on/off.
I would also add that we should be able to set Zebras at clipping limits of the sensor and preferably based on sensor signals and not a white balanced image.
Zebras are extremely disturbing in the viewfinder, so I guess that I would like to see less conservative settings and having a quick on/off facility.
The same goes for peaking.
Best regards
Erik
Great summary from Jim, including a couple of niggles I forgot, specifically:
The only time I've seen this done RIGHT is on REDs. The RED histogram has separate RGB, plus "goal posts" at either end of the histogram to show how many pixels are piled up in the "danger of noise" and "clipping" zones. The camera has a RAW mode which displays the actual raw histogram (more or less). Most useful of all it has traffic lights to show when each channel starts to clip.
I think ALL modern cameras should have clipping traffic lights and live RGB histograms.
I use Aperture priority, auto shutter, and either auto ISO or ISO 100/800, plus the bias dial, for everything except flash in the studio.
It's a fluid and good way to work for me, I really like that aspect of the control layout.
Oh yes, I forgot. That is a pain the arse- it is poorly-implemented. I'd like to see a fully-articulated screen as I said but fixing this would remove an annoyance. it is possible to switch manually but really it just needs the threshold of the sensor tuning up a bit so it works as intended.
Cheers, Hywel
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As a very happy owner of a Sony A7R II, and someone who has used it for several different genres I can say that I broadly concur with the the various pros and cons already noted.
Although this camera currently is not particularly suited to wildlife/sports/action photography one reason yet to be highlighted (although perhaps I have missed the post that mentioned it) is buffer capacity. I used this camera in Africa recently for wildlife (along with a Canon 5D Mark III) and found that even when one could circumnavigate the AF issues with super telephoto lenses and the quirks of the EVF that the buffer became a prime limiting factor. Obviously, the file size is a limitation but only being able to shoot < 10 images in quick succession is a problem to a wildlife shooter.
I use a Metabones adaptor for my Canon lenses and by-and-large it works really well. In fact Metabones are putting out firmware upgrades almost too regularly to keep up with and performance is improving all the time. However, even using the new Canon 100-400mm there is still no consistent autofocus at the high end and it slows considerably above focal lengths of 300mm. At shorter focal lengths I cannot really see a difference in AF performance between Metabones adapted lenses and native Sony FE mount lenses.
My guess is that Sony will look to improve the functionality of the EVF, AF with super telephoto lenses, and the size of the buffer to allow the A7R line to become more competitive as a camera for sports and wildlife.
I also think that should the pace of improvement of the Metabones adaptors continue then that will really contribute to the A7R line becoming even more of a ubiquitous camera.
Tony Jay
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Just watched Vadim from Epicmind Studio do a review of it on YouTube....Up against the IQ160.
Its enough for me to certainly get the Sony instead of a Hass CFV50c I've been waiting on for $7-$8K....
Although I'll need the savings for body adapter and lens :-) But I can take it out in a much more compact way.
So yes, its still costing about 7K for my needs, but more versatile uses.
Sorry Ronald, not a first hand feedback :-) but that YouTube vid is.
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What’s ugly?
The menu system. I devoted a Last Word post to that (http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11711).
Quote from that post:
Format no longer has this pride of place. It’s been replaced. And by what? What could be more often used than Format? The top item of the Suitcase 5 menu page on the a7RII is Copyright Info
I think we know whom to thank for that marvelous feat of UI design... Another quote comes to mind:
The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes," with a footnote to the effect that the editors would welcome applications from anyone interested in taking over the post of robotics correspondent.
Curiously enough, an edition of the Encyclopaedia Galactica that had the good fortune to fall through a time warp from a thousand years in the future defined the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who were the first against the wall when the revolution came."
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Hi,
I am a tripod shooter, so I don't really feel that buffer size have been a limitation for me. But, I do understand that choosing uncompressed raw can cause a significant limitation.
I had the opportunity to try my A7rII with a canon 100-400 zoom (latest version) in September. AF worked up to 200 mm. Personally I have a Sony 70-400/4-5.6G lens, that autofocuses just fine over the full range. But, autofocus is slower than on native FE-lenses.
Best regards
Erik
As a very happy owner of a Sony A7R II, and someone who has used it for several different genres I can say that I broadly concur with the the various pros and cons already noted.
Although this camera currently is not particularly suited to wildlife/sports/action photography one reason yet to be highlighted (although perhaps I have missed the post that mentioned it) is buffer capacity. I used this camera in Africa recently for wildlife (along with a Canon 5D Mark III) and found that even when one could circumnavigate the AF issues with super telephoto lenses and the quirks of the EVF that the buffer became a prime limiting factor. Obviously, the file size is a limitation but only being able to shoot < 10 images in quick succession is a problem to a wildlife shooter.
I use a Metabones adaptor for my Canon lenses and by-and-large it works really well. In fact Metabones are putting out firmware upgrades almost too regularly to keep up with and performance is improving all the time. However, even using the new Canon 100-400mm there is still no consistent autofocus at the high end and it slows considerably above focal lengths of 300mm. At shorter focal lengths I cannot really see a difference in AF performance between Metabones adapted lenses and native Sony FE mount lenses.
My guess is that Sony will look to improve the functionality of the EVF, AF with super telephoto lenses, and the size of the buffer to allow the A7R line to become more competitive as a camera for sports and wildlife.
I also think that should the pace of improvement of the Metabones adaptors continue then that will really contribute to the A7R line becoming even more of a ubiquitous camera.
Tony Jay
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I also shoot from a tripod Eric, and in that context, truly great results are possible.
On a tripod the A7R mark II is truly in its element!
Tony Jay
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I also shoot from a tripod Eric, and in that context, truly great results are possible.
On a tripod the A7R mark II is truly in its element!
I agree, and it's the combination of the articulated LCD, the workaround to keep the LCD from shutting itself off when you bend over to look at it wearing a hat, focus peaking combined with magnification anywhere, and EFCS. The new 5-second self-timer delay is nice, too, but I prefer a wired release.
Jim
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Yes, I'm happy 8)
My case:
I shoot mostly food and drinks visuals, I've done this with a P45+ on a Sinar P2 for about ten years. Plenty of lighting power, controlled environment of a studio kind.
Last summer I've thought maybe it's time for change my camera/back and I decided to give the new Sony a go.
Just a couple of casual shots in the studio, not (much) pixel peeping. When I put together a Phase and a Sony files, side by side on the same monitor, I've thought "Damn, this Sony is pretty close to P45, but the Phase is still an inch further", only to realise, seconds after this, that in fact that better looking image I was starring at was made on the Sony :).
Short after this, I kept the A7R2, I swiftly bought an Arca Swiss M2 instead of the Sinar, sold the P45+ and bought one more A7R2 as backup.
Why I'm happy:
- excellent, excellent image quality, IMHO
- faster, way faster than my previous workflow due to the (now) decent live view and the possibility to shoot during live viewing, which was impossible before, on my Phase/Sinar combination.
- better speed when shooting liquids, splashes, pourings, etc, a kind of images that I usually do. (again, compared to using a MFDB)
- don't laugh, but I'm also happy that the IQ3100 launched 5 months after, otherwise I might have been attracted to it. But honestly, I still could not expose during the live view. And the recent tests made by the kind people from Digital Transitions (Doug and Co, thank you very much) still show how difficult it is to focus properly on MFDB (These tests show more miss-focused points in the IQ3100 images than in the Sony ones, IMHO).
- and I'm way happier with the extra $30k in my pocket, compared to the IQ3100 price, of course. Again, if I need to choose between them at the same moment, I might have taken the Phase route. Now, I'm not looking back and I know those $30k would not have been helping me to earn a cent more, from my (present or future) clients. Choosing "the right camera" is lesser and lesser important than having "the right" lighting, "the right" studio, making yourself known (self promotion and representation).
Why YOU might be happier:
- the stabilisation for any used lens is a killer, when you need it. (I usually don't)
- very good hi ISO performance (not for me, I usually shoot at 50-100 ISO)
Why YOU might not be happy:
- still poor lens range, depending on your subjects and style (in my case I use the view camera lenses anyway, 2 Schneiders and 4 Rodies, 1 Nikkor, plus the 55/1.8 and 90 macro which are, indeed, impressive)
- camera still looks and feels like a toy :P (compared to EOS1s, D4s, RZs, RBs, 500c or any other older or newer workhorses). In my case, I use the view camera anyway, the A7R2 is more like a digital back, so I would rather want it even smaller, please.
- short, very short battery life, compared to, let's say, EOS 5D Mark III. (Me? I don't care, I shoot tethered, so I'm using USB charging anyway. In five months, I used the charger just a couple of time, before firmware updates, just in case)
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Why YOU might be happier:
- the stabilisation for any used lens is a killer, when you need it. (I usually don't)
- very good hi ISO performance (not for me, I usually shoot at 50-100 ISO)
Using the a7RII ISOs below 100 produce reduced headroom, and, with the exception of ISO 50, higher noise and thus lower dynamic range. I see no reason to employ them.
Lots of details and measurements here:
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11622
From the summary:
So the fake ISOs are, for raw shooters, a complete shuck, and a misleading one at that. If you’re using the in-camera histogram to get ETTR exposure, you’re in danger of blowing the highlights at less than base ISO, since the in-camera histogram is derived from the JPEG preview image, which is artificially darkened at ISO settings below the base ISO.
The take home lesson from many of my photographic tests is sometimes complicated and difficult to explain. This one is not: if you shoot raw, don’t ever use the fake ISO settings.
Jim
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Using the a7RII ISOs below 100 produce reduced headroom, and, with the exception of ISO 50, higher noise and thus lower dynamic range. I see no reason to employ them.
Lots of details and measurements here:
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11622
From the summary:
Jim
Honestly, for well-exposed pictures, shot with controlled lighting, I didn't see any difference going down from 400 to 200 to 100 to 50 ISO. If there's any scientific proofs, I won't deny, neither I won't care. The IQ is simply stunning, IMHO.
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Honestly, for well-exposed pictures, shot with controlled lighting, I didn't see any difference going down from 400 to 200 to 100 to 50 ISO. If there's any scientific proofs, I won't deny, neither I won't care. The IQ is simply stunning, IMHO.
Sounds like you don't need all the DR the camera can deliver. Then set the ISO whereever you want.
Jim
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I've been all around the mirrorless world for a while (extensive experience using Micro 43, Fuji X and the original A7r). I had a serious look at the A7rII, and ended up getting out of Sony and putting a big deposit on an X-Pro 2 instead - here's why (for my specific needs).
1.) How big do you need to print? I own an Epson 7900, but don't have easy access to a 9900 anywhere, so my printing tends to go right up to 24x36, but stop there. My X-T1 is an "almost" at 24x36 - it works for many scenes, but there are some where it's not quite there. A much newer sensor with 1.5x the pixels should take the "almost" off of that. Micro 43 has never gotten there - it's ideal at 12x18, "almost" at 16x24. The A7r (original) is 24x36 easy, with some room to grow, and the A7rII is probably somewhat better.
2.) Weather sealing - the Sonys claim it, but I've never trusted it (it seems to be based on tolerances, not actual o-ring seals). Both Fuji and Olympus publish diagrams of their sealing, and the sealed Fujis are at least D800 class, while the best Olympi are in the D4/1Dx class.
3.) Lenses. FE lenses are huge and there's a limited selection, Fuji has a GREAT range of relatively compact lenses, Micro 43 has more variability in quality, but some great glass.
If I were doing less of my photography in the backcountry, and more close to the car, my considerations for an ultimate image quality system would be different from "the best image quality I'm willing to carry". I'd look at Sony with a mix of native and adapted lenses, Nikon (D810), and the Pentax 645Z. Canon's limited DR wouldn't be as appealing, and Phase and Hasselblad would be out of my price range. Sony might VERY WELL win that competition!
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Hi,
I have great respect for that view. I think it is very reasonable to make a choice based on needed print size and buy a system optimised to that size. Optimising the system means among other things to develop lenses with capabilities matching the sensor, good selection of focal lengths and optimal size.
Fuji has done that and so did 4/3.
Personally I want to have the option to print large and seldom walk more than 1-2 km from the car, so I go with Sony A7rII. But I also am under the impression that Canon offers better lenses at a more attractive price than Sony. So, I will probably buy some more Canon lenses.
Best regards
Erik
I've been all around the mirrorless world for a while (extensive experience using Micro 43, Fuji X and the original A7r). I had a serious look at the A7rII, and ended up getting out of Sony and putting a big deposit on an X-Pro 2 instead - here's why (for my specific needs).
1.) How big do you need to print? I own an Epson 7900, but don't have easy access to a 9900 anywhere, so my printing tends to go right up to 24x36, but stop there. My X-T1 is an "almost" at 24x36 - it works for many scenes, but there are some where it's not quite there. A much newer sensor with 1.5x the pixels should take the "almost" off of that. Micro 43 has never gotten there - it's ideal at 12x18, "almost" at 16x24. The A7r (original) is 24x36 easy, with some room to grow, and the A7rII is probably somewhat better.
2.) Weather sealing - the Sonys claim it, but I've never trusted it (it seems to be based on tolerances, not actual o-ring seals). Both Fuji and Olympus publish diagrams of their sealing, and the sealed Fujis are at least D800 class, while the best Olympi are in the D4/1Dx class.
3.) Lenses. FE lenses are huge and there's a limited selection, Fuji has a GREAT range of relatively compact lenses, Micro 43 has more variability in quality, but some great glass.
If I were doing less of my photography in the backcountry, and more close to the car, my considerations for an ultimate image quality system would be different from "the best image quality I'm willing to carry". I'd look at Sony with a mix of native and adapted lenses, Nikon (D810), and the Pentax 645Z. Canon's limited DR wouldn't be as appealing, and Phase and Hasselblad would be out of my price range. Sony might VERY WELL win that competition!
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Yes, I'm happy 8)
My case:
I shoot mostly food and drinks visuals, I've done this with a P45+ on a Sinar P2 for about ten years. Plenty of lighting power, controlled environment of a studio kind.
Last summer I've thought maybe it's time for change my camera/back and I decided to give the new Sony a go.
Just a couple of casual shots in the studio, not (much) pixel peeping. When I put together a Phase and a Sony files, side by side on the same monitor, I've thought "Damn, this Sony is pretty close to P45, but the Phase is still an inch further", only to realise, seconds after this, that in fact that better looking image I was starring at was made on the Sony :).
Short after this, I kept the A7R2, I swiftly bought an Arca Swiss M2 instead of the Sinar, sold the P45+ and bought one more A7R2 as backup.
Why I'm happy:
- excellent, excellent image quality, IMHO
- faster, way faster than my previous workflow due to the (now) decent live view and the possibility to shoot during live viewing, which was impossible before, on my Phase/Sinar combination.
- better speed when shooting liquids, splashes, pourings, etc, a kind of images that I usually do. (again, compared to using a MFDB)
- don't laugh, but I'm also happy that the IQ3100 launched 5 months after, otherwise I might have been attracted to it. But honestly, I still could not expose during the live view. And the recent tests made by the kind people from Digital Transitions (Doug and Co, thank you very much) still show how difficult it is to focus properly on MFDB (These tests show more miss-focused points in the IQ3100 images than in the Sony ones, IMHO).
- and I'm way happier with the extra $30k in my pocket, compared to the IQ3100 price, of course. Again, if I need to choose between them at the same moment, I might have taken the Phase route. Now, I'm not looking back and I know those $30k would not have been helping me to earn a cent more, from my (present or future) clients. Choosing "the right camera" is lesser and lesser important than having "the right" lighting, "the right" studio, making yourself known (self promotion and representation).
Why YOU might be happier:
- the stabilisation for any used lens is a killer, when you need it. (I usually don't)
- very good hi ISO performance (not for me, I usually shoot at 50-100 ISO)
Why YOU might not be happy:
- still poor lens range, depending on your subjects and style (in my case I use the view camera lenses anyway, 2 Schneiders and 4 Rodies, 1 Nikkor, plus the 55/1.8 and 90 macro which are, indeed, impressive)
- camera still looks and feels like a toy :P (compared to EOS1s, D4s, RZs, RBs, 500c or any other older or newer workhorses). In my case, I use the view camera anyway, the A7R2 is more like a digital back, so I would rather want it even smaller, please.
- short, very short battery life, compared to, let's say, EOS 5D Mark III. (Me? I don't care, I shoot tethered, so I'm using USB charging anyway. In five months, I used the charger just a couple of time, before firmware updates, just in case)
Same boat as you(SinarP2 with db, and about to change all that to pick up this little guy ...But also wondering about the Pro Alpha they are "soon" to release.
Did you see the video Vadim did with the IQ130?
https://youtu.be/Ku8xRf72xFA
But as a event camera or outdoor type ruggedness, I don't think the Sony would survive long...While my Canon has much wear in the looks,a nd its been in some battles, it is still ticking like an beast.
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Same boat as you(SinarP2 with db, and about to change all that to pick up this little guy ...But also wondering about the Pro Alpha they are "soon" to release.
Did you see the video Vadim did with the IQ130?
https://youtu.be/Ku8xRf72xFA
But as a event camera or outdoor type ruggedness, I don't think the Sony would survive long...While my Canon has much wear in the looks,a nd its been in some battles, it is still ticking like an beast.
A "PRO" alpha might be a bit bulkier and I won't like that, considering that I have to mount it on the same view camera. :)
Yes I saw that clip, but I already had draw my own conclusions long before that :P
As a event camera, I don't know, indeed, Canon and Nikons still rule the world. Build wise, and also lens wise.
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I liked the A7r a lot and the a7rii even more ...
Aside the file quality the best thing is that i can mount nearly all lenses. Small wideangles as the wate or the vl 12-15-21 mm aside with all kind of existing shift solutions, canon zooms and the old olympus and contax-g stuff.
Some wide lenses wont work, but there are so many which do fine that this is the best for me i have had ever in one camera.
42Mp is less than 100, but for static objects and with shift lenses often i reach similar file sizes.
And ... even 42 is a lot for every kind and size of prints.
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2.) Weather sealing - the Sonys claim it, but I've never trusted it (it seems to be based on tolerances, not actual o-ring seals). Both Fuji and Olympus publish diagrams of their sealing, and the sealed Fujis are at least D800 class, while the best Olympi are in the D4/1Dx class.
I was at the coast a few days ago and got hit by a wave splashing the rocks. More than a spray, less than a soaking (but certainly not anything that would concern me with my old canons). Camera seemed fine and I just wiped off the water. Got home and was a little unnerved to see dried salt all over the bottom of the mount on both my lens/camera. I got hit from above so I'm guessing it got sucked up from underneath through capillary action.
How much it could it possibly have cost them to put a rubber o-ring on their lenses?
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Hi,
I have great respect for that view. I think it is very reasonable to make a choice based on needed print size and buy a system optimised to that size. Optimising the system means among other things to develop lenses with capabilities matching the sensor, good selection of focal lengths and optimal size.
Fuji has done that and so did 4/3.
Personally I want to have the option to print large and seldom walk more than 1-2 km from the car, so I go with Sony A7rII. But I also am under the impression that Canon offers better lenses at a more attractive price than Sony. So, I will probably buy some more Canon lenses.
Best regards
Erik
Actually if you look at sow of the quality lenses from Canon, I would not categorize them as being more attractive price wise.
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One of the most attractive features of the A7rII (and one of the two (the other obviously being the superb image quality)) that caused me to take a long look at it is the adapted lens performance. It has (with adapters) full performance with Sony FE, Sony A, Canon, Nikon and perhaps Leica M lenses. I ended up deciding not to mess with the adapters, and ended up with Fuji due largely to their great first-party lenses. Where weathersealing is critical, I'd rather trust one company than three, one of which I've never heard of, and which sells primarily on eBay. If I were Sony, I'd release Sony-branded Nikon and Canon adapters as quickly as I could get them out the door! I'm not sure about the odd variable extension tube adapter that claims to autofocus Leica M lenses that may be too much of a niche item for Sony - but Canon and Nikon for sure. Sony themselves have a very limited lens selection at this point (and some subpar performers mixed in with some of the best around), but, the day they introduce high quality first-party Nikon and Canon adapters, they have the best lens system around - since neither Canon nor Nikon takes the other guy's lenses. Oh, and Mr. Sony Marketing Guy - put out a video showing the A7rII switching between a couple of, shall we say, unique lenses... Try taking off a Nikon 6mm f2.8 and immediately replacing it with a Canon 1200mm f5.6. No other camera can do THAT with full functionality!
Dan
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I liked the A7r a lot and the a7rii even more ...
Aside the file quality the best thing is that i can mount nearly all lenses. Small wideangles as the wate or the vl 12-15-21 mm aside with all kind of existing shift solutions, canon zooms and the old olympus and contax-g stuff.
Some wide lenses wont work, but there are so many which do fine that this is the best for me i have had ever in one camera.
42Mp is less than 100, but for static objects and with shift lenses often i reach similar file sizes.
And ... even 42 is a lot for every kind and size of prints.
Rainer,
Do you use the Artec much now, or mostly the Sony? It is hard to beat the speed of operation and convenience of the 35mm cameras.
I don't own any MF digital equipment, but if I did I think it would be tempting to leave it on the shelf most of the time considering the subject matter I usually shoot.
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I am familiarizing with a A7RII loaner today. I have a Canon 35mm f1.4L on it and have just spent a few minutes perusing the menu while trying to figure out how to control shutter and aperture in full manual mode. I had to put the camera down and take a break because my right hand started cramping.
Between the menu, the basic ergonomics, and the control layout ergonomics I am very happy that this camera is a loaner.
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I don't agree.
Best regards
Erik
Actually if you look at sow of the quality lenses from Canon, I would not categorize them as being more attractive price wise.
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I am familiarizing with a A7RII loaner today. I have a Canon 35mm f1.4L on it and have just spent a few minutes perusing the menu while trying to figure out how to control shutter and aperture in full manual mode. I had to put the camera down and take a break because my right hand started cramping.
Between the menu, the basic ergonomics, and the control layout ergonomics I am very happy that this camera is a loaner.
I hope its more of a learning curve than anything more......Not like a Capture One situation ;-P
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Rainer,
Do you use the Artec much now, or mostly the Sony? It is hard to beat the speed of operation and convenience of the 35mm cameras.
I don't own any MF digital equipment, but if I did I think it would be tempting to leave it on the shelf most of the time considering the subject matter I usually shoot.
Mostly ( 95%) i work with the sony ...
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Mostly ( 95%) i work with the sony ...
So basically you could go all-Sony?
Edmund
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I'm really happy with the image quality compared to my 5D3 however I'm less enthused with the over handling of the camera when compared to my 5d3. Poor menu structure, fiddly buttons and controls, lack of joysick for focus point selection. I'm always taking my eye away from the view finder as the controls don't lie naturally under my fingers as does the Canon. It may just be due to the cameras small size however Im not totally convinced of this.
Generally works well will with my Canon lenses and metabones adapter. It does have the odd AF hunting fit when minutes earlier it focused quickly on the same subject in the same light. AF tracking works well once locked on.
Battery life is poor but small camera = small battery.
Im taking it to Africa with my Canon for Safari shooting in Botswana and landscapes in Namibia later in the year. I will be using Canon lenses and the Metabones.
Nice camera with huge amount of functionality.
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I'm waiting for a no name or even a Sony brand housing that would help make the A7Rii look like a larger camera, so I have a easier time using it around clients. Maybe a Phase One type hosing would work well. Maybe have a external battery to help, with maybe larger screen?
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or at least a IQ3100 Mark II :P sticker to put on the "pentaprism".
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seriously, if you just make it with a battery you will have a pretty interesting mark for it....but yes, a nice sticker would help! Maybe connected to autotune the metadata to P1, hehehe
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Poor menu structure, fiddly buttons and controls, lack of joysick for focus point selection.
Set one of your custom buttons to "focus settings" this will let you use the directional button as a joystick (I have it set on down button). But I agree camera operation is a mess until you customize it.
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I'm waiting for a no name or even a Sony brand housing that would help make the A7Rii look like a larger camera, so I have a easier time using it around clients. Maybe a Phase One type hosing would work well. Maybe have a external battery to help, with maybe larger screen?
Check with Hasselblad, they might have a big enough wooden grip, or something...
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Just in case Phil is serious, maybe someone is making an L bracket / grip for it.
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Just in case Phil is serious, maybe someone is making an L bracket / grip for it.
Sony makes a two battery grip for the a7RII.
RRS makes brackets for that grip.
Jim
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Sony makes a two battery grip for the a7RII.
I've got one of those…it does indeed turn the camera into something resembling a bloated "pro" body. Used it once so far. It may well never be used again. :D
-Dave-
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I've got one of those…it does indeed turn the camera into something resembling a bloated "pro" body. Used it once so far. It may well never be used again. :D
It helps with handholding big lenses.
Jim
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I am happy with the image quality, and place considerable value on the ability to use a wide range of lenses by means of adapters. I also like the magnified focusing a lot.
One thing I do not like much is the lack of a high quality capability for remote wireless control. CamRanger does not work with Sony and the Sony wifi app is not of professional quality imo.
Also, the built in level is not very precise.
My general impression is that, so far, Sony is not really committed to serving professional photographers.
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Generally I'm more than happy with the A7RII and would like to mention a couple of points that are really important for me and which haven't been mentioned so far (or perhaps I missed them :) ):
- Manual focusing is totally brilliant. Being able to zoom in to 12x makes it possible to focus with great precision, through the viewfinder, and very quickly. As I manual-focus most of my shots this is a big, big plus for me.
- Size. I do a LOT of walking as I'm a landscape photographer, and it is SUCH a relief not be to carting my 1Ds3 while scrambling over rocks any more.
- Zebra. I know this has been mentioned, but rather negatively. I find it fantastic. I set the Zebra to 100+ and with the camera in Manual mode I adjust the exposure so that I just get stripes. I then dial down by 1 stop before taking the shot. This gives a perfect exposure. I don't find the stripes a nuisance while composing the shot as I dial up so that there aren't any.
- WiFi. I can sit in my car and shoot remotely using my phone. I'm not interested in silent shooting, but if I was a wildlife photographer, having wifi + silent shooting would be fantastic!
At first I found the buttons and dials awkward, coming from 1Ds-land. But after a while I've gotten so used to them that the controls are totally fine, even with gloves on (not big thick ones though :) ). Having said that, I do have smallish hands ... I'm not sure I would be so happy if I had shovels for hands like some of my friends.
The automatic EVF/LCD switching. This is been well covered by me and others. When you bend over to have a good look at the LCD screen on the back of the camera, especially if you’re wearing a hat, the screen goes dark. This “feature” also keeps the camera from being as useful at waist level as it otherwise might be. There is a great workaround which came from a reader, which gets you the equivalent of the a directly accessed manual two-way (EVF/LCD) toggle on the Leica M240. Set C3, the custom button next to the finder, to “Finder/Monitor Sel.” Then go to “Gear>4>Finder/Monitor” and set it to manual. I didn’t know about this on the trip, but, since the EVF on the a7RII is better than the ones on its forbearers, by the end of the trip, I was holding the camera up to my eye whenever I needed to access the menu system outdoors.
This is a great trick ... thanks! Also, if you use the center button to turn the LCD on/off you can have everything off and then turn the LCD on at the touch of a button, if you need it. Good for battery life.
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Canon/metabones lens users. How is it across the frame with wide angle lenses?
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Hi,
16-35/4 LII just fine on the A7rII, samples here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/Canon_16_35_4/
Some of the samples were made with shifted lens, using HCam Master TSII adapter.
Best regards
Erik
Canon/metabones lens users. How is it across the frame with wide angle lenses?
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Hi,
16-35/4 LII just fine on the A7rII, samples here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/Canon_16_35_4/
Some of the samples were made with shifted lens, using HCam Master TSII adapter.
Best regards
Erik
Ive been using my Zeiss 21mm ZE without any issues. And of course the magnified mode in the EVF helps for manual focussing.
In side by side test shots with my 5D3, no issues across the frame to my eye at all.
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Canon/metabones lens users. How is it across the frame with wide angle lenses?
I only ask because of this http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2015-10-16-a7r2-5dsr/index.htm I know he's a red rag to many photography bulls. It was something I had wondered myself, hence why my search turned him up.
So interested to hear from those using the combo, particularly the 24mmL f1.4 mkII
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I only ask because of this http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2015-10-16-a7r2-5dsr/index.htm I know he's a red rag to many photography bulls. It was something I had wondered myself, hence why my search turned him up.
So interested to hear from those using the combo, particularly the 24mmL f1.4 mkII
KR fails to account for other variables, such as the adapter and the camera itself. There is plenty of evidence from highly critical professional photographers that, with the Metabones adapters, lenses from other manufacturers work fine on the Sony A7 cameras. My own experience with the Metabones and Canon lenses on the Sony corresponds with this. HR used a Fotodiox adapter and apparently did not try any other adapters or even any other copies of the Fotodiox adapter. So, I think his conclusions are highly suspect.
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Hi,
The sample Ken Rockwell shows is very different from mine.
Now, KR refers to experience with Leica lenses and says the 16-35/4 has similar issues. That is simply wrong. The issue with Leica glass is that the outlet pupil of the lens is close to the sensor plane, leading to large beam angles that induce astigmatism. For that reason, Leica has chosen very thin cover glass on the Leica M8 - and paid a price, in excessive infra red sensitivity.
Sony has cover glass of similar strength as the Canon cameras, about 2mm.
Tony Nothrup has also looked int this and found that edges/corners were significantly better on 16-35/4 when used with Canon bodies than on the A7rII. No obvious explanation, although the adapter always adds some extra mechanical tolerance.
I would say that Mr. Rockwell's findings don't make sense. Tony Northup's findings may be relevant.
What I can say is that I am quite happy with the 16-35/4 on the Sony A7rII so far. But, I don't have a Canon 5DsR to compare wih.
Best regards
Erik
I only ask because of this http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2015-10-16-a7r2-5dsr/index.htm I know he's a red rag to many photography bulls. It was something I had wondered myself, hence why my search turned him up.
So interested to hear from those using the combo, particularly the 24mmL f1.4 mkII
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The issue with Leica glass is that the outlet pupil of the lens is close to the sensor plane, leading to large beam angles that induce astigmatism. For that reason, Leica has chosen very thin cover glass on the Leica M8 - and paid a price, in bad infra read sensitivity.
Don't you mean "good infrared sensitivity?" :D
-Dave-
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About Canon lenses with an adaptor: one thing which is a real nuisance is that there is no DOF button on the A7RII. The camera appears to calculate the exposure with the shutter wide open (at least with the Metabones IV) so there's no DOF preview available. This is particularly bad for close-up / macro photography as it makes the composition very hit and miss.
With Sony lenses the aperture is adjusted so that DOF is automatic. Which is why I'm selling my Canon macro lenses and forking out a small fortune for a Sony 90mm Macro.
Robert
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Hi,
I would say the word is excessive infrared sensitivity.
Best regards
Erik
Don't you mean "good infrared sensitivity?" :D
-Dave-
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About Canon lenses with an adaptor: one thing which is a real nuisance is that there is no DOF button on the A7RII. The camera appears to calculate the exposure with the shutter wide open (at least with the Metabones IV) so there's no DOF preview available. This is particularly bad for close-up / macro photography as it makes the composition very hit and miss.
Did you try advanced mode on your metabones? Basically just hold down the button on your metabones when you mount the lens. This will stop down the lens and give you DOF preview.
See
http://www.metabones.com/article/of/green-power-save-mode
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I have been looking into the A7r and the A7r2 for a while. I shoot a lot of macro with my Canon and rely on Helicon Remote and Helicon Focus for layer stacking. I would love to go Sony, but until they open up their SDK to allow them to work with Helicon Remote, it's a no go. Anyone else in this spot?
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...the confused state of the menus with multiple button presses required for some simple functions e.g. moving the focus point.
Multiple button presses to move the focus point? That doesn't sound right.
I've assigned focus point to the centre button (within the wheel...) and one press calls up the focus point and it can then be moved using the N,S,E,W buttons in the centre. You don't even have to press another button to finalise your selection, you just stop moving the focus point and you're ready to go. To return the focus point to the centre just press the centre button to call up the focus point and then press the trash can button.
So, moving the focus point should be... one button press to call up the function and then you move it. Simples :D
Must admit that I'm always slightly baffled when people complain about menus as I only enter the menu to do two things, to format the card and alter the clock. Everything else is covered by a dial or function button.
From a picture quality point of view the camera and sensor are excellent but the ergonomics for cold weather landscape shooting sucks. The whole kit is going on Ebay and I am going back to my heavier but more practical D810.
I can't blame you for doing what's right for you but honestly, if you're complaining about menu's and multiple button presses I don't think you've spent enough time setting the Sony up.
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I am familiarizing with a A7RII loaner today. I have a Canon 35mm f1.4L on it and have just spent a few minutes perusing the menu while trying to figure out how to control shutter and aperture in full manual mode. I had to put the camera down and take a break because my right hand started cramping.
Between the menu, the basic ergonomics, and the control layout ergonomics I am very happy that this camera is a loaner.
So you spent a couple hours and it didn't feel like your previous camera. Is that surprising to you? When I rent a car for a week, the first couple days the layout is all confusing, but at the end of the week, everything feels like a glove.
If you truly want to evaluate the camera, use it for a week, not a couple hours. Wouldn't hurt to also read up on how to set the camera up.
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So you spent a couple hours and it didn't feel like your previous camera. Is that surprising to you? When I rent a car for a week, the first couple days the layout is all confusing, but at the end of the week, everything feels like a glove.
If you truly want to evaluate the camera, use it for a week, not a couple hours. Wouldn't hurt to also read up on how to set the camera up.
Agreed, except you'd have to use it for longer than that....sometimes.
and you have to force yourself to use it, not jump back.
Sort of like a cell phone, except that takes much longer to know if you hate it.
If I may,
we are in the 4th page of this post....
I have had the apple phone since the original, and left it at the 4S to a very poor version of an Android phone that was horrible. SO I went back to iPhone, but really struggling with it all the while. So I have to get a pure Android phone that is solid build with the important things I need large text keys, long battery life, no boatware, I also must have a screen or battery I can replace....
So daily use and really knowing how a product works helps you embrace it or chuck it.
(responses to the cell section, maybe just do a personal message)
So same with the camera. I switched from Mikon to Canon about 10 years ago, and really embraced it...and never looked back....until sort(Sony/Nikon) of now :-)
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I've been all around the mirrorless world for a while (extensive experience using Micro 43, Fuji X and the original A7r). I had a serious look at the A7rII, and ended up getting out of Sony and putting a big deposit on an X-Pro 2 instead - here's why (for my specific needs).
1.) How big do you need to print? I own an Epson 7900, but don't have easy access to a 9900 anywhere, so my printing tends to go right up to 24x36, but stop there. My X-T1 is an "almost" at 24x36 - it works for many scenes, but there are some where it's not quite there. A much newer sensor with 1.5x the pixels should take the "almost" off of that. Micro 43 has never gotten there - it's ideal at 12x18, "almost" at 16x24. The A7r (original) is 24x36 easy, with some room to grow, and the A7rII is probably somewhat better.
2.) Weather sealing - the Sonys claim it, but I've never trusted it (it seems to be based on tolerances, not actual o-ring seals). Both Fuji and Olympus publish diagrams of their sealing, and the sealed Fujis are at least D800 class, while the best Olympi are in the D4/1Dx class.
3.) Lenses. FE lenses are huge and there's a limited selection, Fuji has a GREAT range of relatively compact lenses, Micro 43 has more variability in quality, but some great glass.
If I were doing less of my photography in the backcountry, and more close to the car, my considerations for an ultimate image quality system would be different from "the best image quality I'm willing to carry". I'd look at Sony with a mix of native and adapted lenses, Nikon (D810), and the Pentax 645Z. Canon's limited DR wouldn't be as appealing, and Phase and Hasselblad would be out of my price range. Sony might VERY WELL win that competition!
I might do down this path myself.
I'm personally all over the map. I'm an MFA grad student and before entering school I was pure analog, mainly 8x10 with 4x5 sprinkled in. Personally, I'll never get rid of these formats. School turned me to digital, due to turn around times and print expectations for weekly crits. At this point I've shot everything, A7RII, D810, 645Z, and now a CFV-50C , which is likely going up for sale. Of all the cameras I loved the Z the most but it actually failed me, a mirror mechanism failure 21 days into owning it.
We have three Epson 9900's and a 7700 for the grads. I'm starting to question how big I'll print in the long run. With these massive MFDB files I can't print huge, 40x60 but am I really going to print this large once I'm done with school? Likely not.
I'm in the A7RII felt like a toy camp.
I have some cash now and need to decide between repurchasing the Sony or going XPro2, which would ultimately save me coin in the long run.
I just need to think, can the Xpro2 absolutely get me a 24x20 print. I've seen a fellow classmate make an absolute f'n killer 40x60 from an A7RII... We were looking at it right at the paper level and it held up so damn well, printed at like 190DPI.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Grossly bad ergonomics can be decided on in a day or so. It took me one annoying day with the Sigma DP2M to decide that I needed to get a grip (actually grip-on-an-L-bracket) for it, and an optical viewfinder. Problem solved (well, except for the dreadful LCD, which totally undersells the camera). And I can handle a Rebel/SL1 / Nikon equivalent (feels too small) or a 1DX (feels fine, but a little heavy) in the store fine, but the mid-sized non-gripped cameras work better for me due to the weight difference. Fine differences in ergonomics, a button moved a little further down, a small change in the viewfinder display, etc - that takes time to get accustomed and evaluate.
Too bad about the Pentax 645Z failure.