Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: tived on April 09, 2006, 09:13:30 pm
-
Hi Guys and gals,
with the availability of drivers for windows xp x64, and colorvision abandon my trusty old spyder I am on the verge of purshaing a new solution.
BUT, which one, and should I buy a bigger package then just a monitor calibrator?
Would it be a good idea to buy the Photo package from GretagMacBeth, so I could calibrate my scanners, camera and printers?
Or is the current profiles available as good if not better then what I could produce from such a package, pricewise, the photo package would probably be as much as I would spend USD$1500, give and take a bit (should there be a really good reason to go higher, then be it) but I would rather that the money stays in the pocket and I can go traveling and make more photos! :-)
thank you very much for taking your time
Kindest regards
Henrik
Down under
-
I don't quite understand. Are you saying that the Spyder is no longer supported?
Anyway, here is my take. It all depends on your total budget.
As far as profiles for printers are concerned, i'd be surprised if most photographers can equal the profiles available from various on line "gurus". The prices are very economical but I have never used these services yet so others will give you actual experience.
The problems with color are far greater than the GM spectrophotmeter can provide alone.
Even the best LCD monitors when calibrated aren't so accurate 2 inches away from the center!
I have used the Spyder and the GM expensive solution. I'm happy I bought the GM but use Eizo Color Navigator software not the GM software since it can't access the highly accurate factory calibration chip in the Eizo!
In retrospect, I'd be just as happy with the spyder which I recently sold for a song with all the calibration software!
I wish I still had the money in my pocket towards pocket wizards, better flash or upgrading my camera or getting my new printer!
There is simply no point in going after an imaginary level of accuracy better than the monitor.
Spend the money on a better monitor! Use the Spyder and you will be shocked how happy you are.
Asher
-
Hi Asher,
thanks for your reply, I think we last year had a long decussion regarding screens and the likes at RobG's site.
Your reply has been very helpful, I just wanted to get some opinions before commiting myself. my budget was only around the USD$1500 give and take a bit
so I am really limited to the iOne Photo package if I choose to go beyond the Display2. iOne, is currently the only one that has drivers for windows x64 and I was told by Colorvision that there would most likely not, be any new drivers for the Spyder in its original version. So no matter what I do I have to get a new monitor calibrator.
thank you very much for taking the time to reply
kindest regards
Henrik
-
Hi Asher,
thanks for your reply, I think we last year had a long decussion regarding screens and the likes at RobG's site.
Your reply has been very helpful, I just wanted to get some opinions before commiting myself. my budget was only around the USD$1500 give and take a bit
so I am really limited to the iOne Photo package if I choose to go beyond the Display2. iOne, is currently the only one that has drivers for windows x64 and I was told by Colorvision that there would most likely not, be any new drivers for the Spyder in its original version. So no matter what I do I have to get a new monitor calibrator.
thank you very much for taking the time to reply
kindest regards
Henrik
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=62250\")
Henrik,
Hold tight! Don't spend your money yet!
I'll try to look up a much more economical solution!
Remember, having a package delivered by volvo, B M W or a Vespa mototbike doesnt alter the quality of the package being delivered.
forget about all the other calibrations beyond the screen. The other features are best dealt with by paying a tiny fee or downloading perfectly respectable profiles. Epson is pretty marbelous I hear with just the Epson profiles. Still there are plenty guys who offer terrific calibration services and they know what they are doing.
Asher
ADDENDUM: This is your perfect solution. Very high quality. At least as good or even perhaps better than GM. Mention my name to Rick: he'll have a laugh!
[a href=\"http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/productdetail.cxsa?toolid=1086&-session=tx:431446D609fca38592yTwJ66FE12]http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/prod...38592yTwJ66FE12[/url]
Asher
-
I think Asher is right about using services for profiling printers and cameras etc. and only buying calibration pack for monitors.
I bought my GMB eye one display 2 years ago and have been happy but kept getting tempted to buy eye one photo to calibrate printer and camera etc. However, as I research and read about camera profiling, I have come to the conclusion that whilst the results may be better, the process itself requires quite a bit of experience to do well. On printer profiling, I find the Epson canned profiles for my Stylus Pro 4000 to be spot on and hence eliminate the need for further tweaking.
I have therefore found no reason to go beyond profiling my monitor and think that if needed, using a professional service for camera and printer profiling would be more economical and probably better than I can do myself.
Henry
-
Henrik,
Hold tight! Don't spend your money yet!
ADDENDUM: This is your perfect solution. Very high quality. At least as good or even perhaps better than GM. Mention my name to Rick: he'll have a laugh!
Hi Asher,
The one main reason for going with OneEye is that they have windows xp x64 drivers for their products now. which is something I have been hanging out for since mid last year.
Can you mix and match devices with software from x-rite and GM ? if I could get the software from OneEye and the device from xrite. or is there little difference between the hardware?
thanks for being so helpful
Kindest regards
Henrik
-
thanks Henry
It looks like it is the way to go, just calibrating the monitor and leave the other devices to the guru's
I have the Epson 4000 as well, and have been quite pleased with it.
only thing is now, that I have taken a step backwards, and got myself a Imacon Photo scanner to scan 6x17 with, I thought that maybe I would need to calibrate this beast every now and then.
anyway, I think I will, just settle for the monitor atm (a lot of money saved there!!)
Kindest regards and thanks for replying
Henrik
-
thanks Henry
It looks like it is the way to go, just calibrating the monitor and leave the other devices to the guru's
I have the Epson 4000 as well, and have been quite pleased with it.
only thing is now, that I have taken a step backwards, and got myself a Imacon Photo scanner to scan 6x17 with, I thought that maybe I would need to calibrate this beast every now and then.
anyway, I think I will, just settle for the monitor atm (a lot of money saved there!!)
Kindest regards and thanks for replying
Henrik
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Henrik,
Trust me, 64 BIT is out of place here! Simply not relevent! The calibration is over in less than 5 minutes!! 32 BIT processing is as fast as it gets!!
The is no need for the GM software. The XRite software is at least as good. Some say it's better. I am sure it is perfectly good for any monitor available today.
You will have perfect color. Want better? Warm up your monitor for 40 minutes before use. Re Calibrate every 2 weeks. Dont use the edges of your monitor for critical color corrections, use the center. Wear grey clothes, paint the room white better neutral grey or black. Use 5000 degree Kelvin room lights. No red yellow or whatever colored trphies books clothes in the room.
These are far more important than anything else you might spend money on.
You seem locked into some religious need for the GM name. Get FREE and ESCAPE
X Rite is a great puck and the software is superb. Anyway, if you get an Eizo, or most other top of the line LCD monitors, there own software should use X Rite puck just as easily as any other.
Eizo color Navigator does. further, GM software can't even access the internal factory, Minolta-spectrophotometer bases highly accurate calibration stored on a chip!
Put your money on the monitor!
Asher
-
Hi Asher,
thanks very much, I am not stuck on GM, it is that the GM is the only company that has supplied drivers to run their software/hardware on a 64bit processor system. as where the operation system is 64bit as oppose to 32bit. this isn;t a color issue, but a processor one.
I will happily jump for the x-rite, if I know that it will run on 64-bit operating system. It is the fact that I am running a 64bit operating system, that I have to replace my current setup (yeah, really great loss, giving up the spyder) :-)
I want you to know I really appreciate your help, next time I will get the Eizo! Hard lesson learnt! I looked for the x-rite puke and to see if I could get the GM software. that could see me through till others come to the table or till Windows Vista is released and more companies will come to the table, with more drivers.
If there is a way to get it this way, x-rite and GM software(3.6) then I am ok!
thanks
Henrik
-
Isn't it possible to run software in some 32bit mode on the 64bit systems?
Btw, which Eizo were you thinking of getting?
-
Isn't it possible to run software in some 32bit mode on the 64bit systems?
Btw, which Eizo were you thinking of getting?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
hi marc,
it is possible to run some 32bit software under 64bit, it is a hardware and software issue. i am not that sure about the technical implications other then it needs access to the OS, to alter hardware settings AFAIK!
EIZO!!!!, that will be a year or so unless I suddenly aquire a large sum of money :-)
cheers
Henrik
-
Hm, there's a Microsoft guy on the Rob Galbraith site you could try to ask.. Gary Voth in the colour management forum.
Edit - oh nevermind, I see you already did
-
Hi,
I use 64bit Windows as my main operating system. I found it very irritating there were no Spyder drivers for the 64bit system, but I refused to bow down to this planned obsolescence. I first tried to do the calibration through 32bit Windows installed on VMware Workstation but found this to be a bad idea. I eventually installed a secondary 32bit Windows on a different partition, where I go only to calibrate my monitor. I keep these two different installations running with the same version of display drivers (minus 32bit vs 64bit) to eliminate some hypothetical problems. I just copy the profile created from the 32bit to the 64 bit installation.
Of cource, there's still a possibility that something unknown setting is different with these two installations, but I see no difference in colour between these two installations.
-SD
-
Hi,
I eventually installed a secondary 32bit Windows on a different partition, where I go only to calibrate my monitor. I keep these two different installations running with the same version of display drivers (minus 32bit vs 64bit) to eliminate some hypothetical problems. I just copy the profile created from the 32bit to the 64 bit installation.
-SD
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62664\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
SD,
Am delighted to hear your solution. This is what we should be doing: simple logical workarounds and be saving $1500!
Of course one could write poetry about GM, but to me these are hyped tools. It is not whether or not the surgeons scalpel is made of gold or platinum, but whether or not he has the skill to operate.
The Spyder, even the first version is wonderful.
Way to go!
Asher
-
Hi Asher
I know I am a pain here now. what do you know about the Lacie Blue...it is a x-rite or iOne?
if either, can it be used with any of the software from x-rite or others?!
Sorry, most camera stores here don't have stock and you can't try and I really really need to get my system calibrated ;-)
thanks
Henrik
-
Hi Asher
I know I am a pain here now. what do you know about the Lacie Blue...it is a x-rite or iOne?
if either, can it be used with any of the software from x-rite or others?!
Sorry, most camera stores here don't have stock and you can't try and I really really need to get my system calibrated ;-)
thanks
Henrik
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=63710\")
Hi once more,
I don't remeber off hand. However, most software makers design to work with all the availbable pucks. go to andrew rodney's site, digitaldog.com the and then to [a href=\"http://www.thedigitaldog.com/links/]http://www.thedigitaldog.com/links/[/url] download some of his free PDF files. Also from the links section check out the sites because you will get all the options.
Each software set will tell you what instruments it works with.
IMHO, it is the monitor that is key for spending money, then the puck. You can use a used on or simply find a friend who is local and borrow it say once a month to rec calibrate everything.
They are all v good.
However, I think Xrite is a very good product.
Look at the picture and you will see.
I will add to this in my new website!
Asher
-
Hi Asher,
I went down and got a Lacie Blue Eye Pro, it was cheap (relatively) downloaded the iMatch 3.6 software when I got home and I am pleased with the result, on my windows XP x64 machine I now have my two monitors calibrated with seperate profiles on each, using two Nvidia Quadro FX-3400
Yes, it is only going to get as good as the monitor used! Currently two Dell! but I am adding my change to pickybank every day now, so hopefully I can grap a EIZO next year! CG220 looks sweet! hmm, I might have to add notes as well!
Asher, thanks for all your help! I might add the X-rite later, and the software you mentioned when it becomes available for my operating system
Kindest regards,
Henrik
-
It's hard to argue with advice to let experts handle the tricky processes. That said, I can tell you from experience that printer profiling is not a difficult task with the right tools and will give you far more flexibility than what you can get from others on a piecemeal basis.
I've had custom profiles made by people well-known as being quite good at doing it. Those profiles are, generally, not as good as those I am now making myself using an X-Rite Pulse system. The process couldn't be easier with a surprisingly small learning curve.
I'd struggled for years with a few consistent problems with output using canned and custom profiles and can truly say that I've eliminated those issues with my own profiles. Having your own system means you can experiment with various driver/media settings and make profiles with very little effort on a whim if you'd like to try a new paper.
Not counting target print drying time, the whole profiling process takes 10 minutes or so and is about as mechanical a process as you can imagine. There's little, if any, judgment involved unless you feel the need to edit the profile later and I must say I've had no need to do so.
Michael
-
thanks Michael
that is comforting to hear, I would like to get into this because I am interested and want to learn as well.
One of the nice things about digital is that you are able to take more control yourself (though this can also result in more headaches )
do you profile anything else, like your camera or scanner?
Henrik
-
No. I haven't found the need to profile any of my digital camera bodies aside from some calibration tweaks in Adobe Camera Raw. And thankfully it's been a very long time since I've scanned any negatives or transparencies.
And I should say that printer profiling has been one of the more headache-free experiences of my digital life ;o)
thanks Michael
that is comforting to hear, I would like to get into this because I am interested and want to learn as well.
One of the nice things about digital is that you are able to take more control yourself (though this can also result in more headaches )
do you profile anything else, like your camera or scanner?
Henrik
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
No. I haven't found the need to profile any of my digital camera bodies aside from some calibration tweaks in Adobe Camera Raw. And thankfully it's been a very long time since I've scanned any negatives or transparencies.
And I should say that printer profiling has been one of the more headache-free experiences of my digital life ;o)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63863\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Everything you say is true and comforting. I am happy you support my opinion of the Xrite system. It is a great bargain.
That being said, profiling is not a lone man in the wilderness. Rather it is part of a related and connected iterative process.
If one has a monitor which is color, luminence or stability challenged, then it is difficult to correct anything much and get a great result. Here it is better to get the light right at shooting, use a gray card, limit changes to an S curve and the histiogram in RGB and limited sharpening and don't alter color "by eye" on the monitor but by iterative changes to the print output viewed in daylight. This should give pretty perfect results.
On the other hand, there is nothing better than a calibrated workflow over which you have control.
Asher
-
Hi Asher,
I just got an e-mail from X-rite and it will be a few months till they have something for x64 of windows. and I will supect that it won't be till Vista. In the meantime, I will try and see if I can get some good result with the Blue Eye and iMatch, with my two Dell! I know, it makes your stomac turn every time I mention those Dell LCD's ...compromise, compromise! Hopefully it won't be too much of a compromise!
Just want to let you know I appreciate your efforts and help! Thanks Mate!
Henrik
-
No. I haven't found the need to profile any of my digital camera bodies aside from some calibration tweaks in Adobe Camera Raw. And thankfully it's been a very long time since I've scanned any negatives or transparencies.
And I should say that printer profiling has been one of the more headache-free experiences of my digital life ;o)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63863\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The Eizo 210 is a mature beast. The CG220 is magnificent in concept but you need to hear from several guys who have used it for at least 6 months and also compare it with other competitive aRGB LCD monitors that are coming available. Also coming round the corner are new technologies that allow normalization of luminence all over the screen, at least theoretically.
I wouldn't buy this first generation CG220 unless you find really good evidence that it is stable and it has testable specifications that ADD something to your product ie the PRINT!!
The gamut of the printers extends in different directions. Even aRGB doesnt correspond to some of the colors of the Epson K3 inks. check Magne's site and the Eizo site for 3D overlays of the Eizo, Lacie and various Eizo monitors AND believe it or not, printers!
Unless you have a proof to yourself that these more costly monitors change your prints, why bother. I know Michael Tapes, for his video business uses a $5,000 color spectrophotmeter to calibrate his monitor, but his business model apparently pays for it and the extra quality.
Asher
-
Asher,
I won't be buying any monitor till earlist next year, and as you say there can by that time be bigger and better things.
the next six months i need to put my head down and do some work and hopefully when I do some prints next week I can determine if the Lacie Blue Eye/iMatch have worked out.
while I got your attention, do you use any RIP's? I have a Epson 4000 printer and an R800, my partner sends are her work out to the lab, but I like to do my own printing, at least try to do it! ;-)
if you do, which one?
Henrik