Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Endeavour on November 23, 2015, 02:26:06 pm
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Hi
I am a long time 35mm shooter (film & digital) and I am interested in making the switch to medium format. I've found myself getting frustrated with the resolution/detailed offered by my existing 35mm/fullframe DSLR and really want to step up my quality of shots.
I am interested 80% in landscape and 20% portraiture. Blessed with living in Canada, I want to take advantage of the awesome landscape available.
I know I'm being restrictive here, but for the sake of argument let's say I wanted a single lens setup for landscape (perhaps investing in more glass for other subjects depending on how I get on) What is the minimum I would need to get going?
Would anyone be able to advise on the kit I would need?
am I looking at a min cost of $10,000 (CAD) to just get started?
I'd rather not go back down the film route if possible, but I wouldn't totally dismiss it either.
It is something I want to be taking seriously, rather than just messing about.
any thoughts/advice would be gratefully received, particularly any suggestions on what equipment to go look at
Cheers
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I was in the same situation about a month ago, I found a P1 camera and back for a bargain at a local camera shop and went for it (after getting a lot of useful info from the people here in the forum).
Are you thinking of buying used second hand equipment or new stuff with warranty?
If you're going with second hand stuff there are a lot of options for ±10.000 CAD, with new equipment not so much..
I think it's going to be very hard to give any specific advice on a kit - but if you're really mainly doing landscape photography you might want to consider looking for a P45+ back. Although they aren't full frame MF backs they are very close (lens factor of 1.1) and they offer a very good quality during long exposures and it has a quite high resolution of 39MP and an excellent image quality up to ISO200.
You probably won't have the luxury of choosing which camera mount the back is going to have if you're buying second hand (after all medium format backs are quite rare on the 2nd hand market)...
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Thanks for the reply
Yes, ideally I would like to buy used. Right now I cant just drop 10k on a body
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Pretty easy choice. Pentax 645Z
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$10k CAD is about $7.5K USD, which won't get you anything if you buy new.
The 135 systems are at 40-50 megapixels now and I assume you want better than that. Lens quality, especially in the wide end, is better in MF so it's not only about megapixels. I think an A7r-II with the best 35mm lenses would be the minimum standard to compare to.
If you would only do landscape I'd recommend looking into tech cams, but as you want to do portraits too that may not be a too good idea. The Pentax 645z seems to be the most reasonable way to go.
If it would only be landscape I'd look into something like a second hand P65+ with Arca-Swiss Universalis and Kapture Group sliding back and a Rodie 40mm, and expand on that (it would be like $20K though?). I know many can't stand ground glass focusing though, and if you can't you need a more expensive system if you go the tech cam way.
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If you really need to stay on a low budget and even the 645z is too expensive, you will have to go with lower resolution backs and then you will have to search in terms of color and lens rendering to see any improvements, as much, maybe even resolution, will be worse than the best 135.
I would then pick up a second hand Hassy, those can often be had quite cheap. I'd look for say a H3Dii-39 with an 80mm lens.
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Hi
I am a long time 35mm shooter (film & digital) and I am interested in making the switch to medium format. I've found myself getting frustrated with the resolution/detailed offered by my existing 35mm/fullframe DSLR and really want to step up my quality of shots.
I am interested 80% in landscape and 20% portraiture. Blessed with living in Canada, I want to take advantage of the awesome landscape available.
I know I'm being restrictive here, but for the sake of argument let's say I wanted a single lens setup for landscape (perhaps investing in more glass for other subjects depending on how I get on) What is the minimum I would need to get going?
Would anyone be able to advise on the kit I would need?
am I looking at a min cost of $10,000 (CAD) to just get started?
I'd rather not go back down the film route if possible, but I wouldn't totally dismiss it either.
It is something I want to be taking seriously, rather than just messing about.
any thoughts/advice would be gratefully received, particularly any suggestions on what equipment to go look at
Cheers
I think you have the right approach on the subject... Based on what your requirements are, I conclude that you want a low budget solution that you'll be able to advance step by step through the years... I also think that it's right if you seek for a solution that has the alternative of using film, my suggestion would be to opt for a Hasselblad H1/H2/H2F/H4x so that you will have an open platform to work with and look for the 35mm lens to accompany it with... As for back, I would highly suggest an old 22mp Kodak sensor back to marry it with, but a 33mp Dalsa sensor or 39mp Kodak sensor back will also do...
I would recommend the Contax 645 platform instead (with the same backs), but prices are high and keep rising. OTOH, the lenses of C645 cost much less than they should (but the 80mm f2 lens which is in very high demand), so if you don't need the focal length (which you most possibly don't for landscapes) you may as well consider spending a bit more on the body and save considerably on the lenses.... Now I think about it, a combination of c645 body, 35 & 45-90 zoom and an Imacon 132c should both keep your budget low and provide a system that would provide high results satisfaction as well as keep you in contact with more tasks than landscape for a long time... Mind you that with the Contax, you'll be able to also use Hasselblad V lenses on it via an inexpensive adapter and if you add a P65+ back on it sometime in the future, you won't need to go for a wider angle lens and the quality of the prints should be breath taking... Also mind that the 45-90mm Zeiss vario Sonnar zoom lens is surprisingly easy to hand hold and of "single focal length quality".
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I don't think the 645Z will be a huge step forward.
Doug pretty much summed it up here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=95848.msg783082#msg783082
Pentax does have a rather limited lens selection - and the sensor isn't much bigger than 35mm, no leaf shutter lenses (should you ever need one) and it can't be used with a tech cam...
And it's much harder to clean the sensor! That's a fact often overlooked - it is very easy to clean the sensor of a removable back but it's much harder to clean the sensor of a DSLR-type camera. And while most camera stores are happy to clean your full frame DSLR they won't clean a medium format camera, at least not where I'm from.
The H3DII 39 may be a good choice for photography in general, but for landscape photography you probably won't be thrilled by it's long exposure performance - if I remember correctly you can't expose longer than 64 seconds and the quality of long exposures isn't too good.
The P45+ is a much better choice for landscape photography on a budget and if you don't plan on doing any long exposures the P65+ is also a good choice with a bigger sensor and a huge resolution (but also a higher price tag).
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I don't shoot MFD but if I was interested in getting into a system with your budget, the Pentax 645Z seems like a pretty good choice (used). And here's something you might consider: LensAuthority has a used 645Z which I'm guessing may have come out of LensRental stock. It's priced at $5,250 USD. Two days from now, they begin their annual Black Friday sale, and everything they have available is an additional 10% off. If I've done my math right, that's $4,725. Pick up a lens or two that meets your needs and away you go. BTW, I have no affiliation with LensAuthority - just passing on some info. Good luck with your search.
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I'm happy with my old Hasselblad bodies, 503CX and 553ELX. I recently added a 22MP Phase One H25 back for $900. I like that it has a bigger sensor than the current crop of cheaper backs at 37mm X 49mm.
V series bodies and lenses can be had for only a few hundred dollars each.
Carrying a MacBook Pro is no big deal. I'll soon be experimenting with a MacBook Air to reduce weight.
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I'm happy with my old Hasselblad bodies, 503CX and 553ELX. I recently added a 22MP Phase One H25 back for $900. I like that it has a bigger sensor than the current crop of cheaper backs at 37mm X 49mm.
V series bodies and lenses can be had for only a few hundred dollars each.
Carrying a MacBook Pro is no big deal. I'll soon be experimenting with a MacBook Air to reduce weight.
Hasselblad V also crossed my mind to suggest... (of course - how could it be different?), but I have a feeling that the 40mm widest focal length for it may prove more restring than what one would require for landscapes... especially if the budget for the back is limited....
OTOH, the Pentax 645 Z that many suggest, I have a feeling it would be more suited to other kinds of photography (like weddings for instance or other low light that a DSLR would also do well enough...). For landscapes and other "traditional MF photography", I would stick with the looks of a good old MFDB.... especially the looks of a "fat pixel" one...
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Honestly, you can grab a 645D for ~$3k, and a few A lenses and be done for less than $6k.
Can you focus manually or are you dependent on live view or auto-focus?
What 35mm gear do you currently have, and where is it letting you down?
There are lots of different options, and while you may discount film, there are things like the GX617 that only exist in film.
Will you be carrying this many klicks or many meters?
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There are lots of different options, and while you may discount film, there are things like the GX617 that only exist in film.
Well..not quite http://www.roundshot.com/xml_1/internet/en/application/d77/d122/f123.cfm
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Well..not quite http://www.roundshot.com/xml_1/internet/en/application/d77/d122/f123.cfm
Not to rain on your parade, but the Roundshot is a scanback. If you want to know what you can do with a one shot solution in the panoramic format, check out Josef Koudelka or Carl de Keyzer.
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I would suggest that if a conversation on Seitz is to be started, of it to be on a new dedicated thread as I would be glad to participate (being a frequent user of a 220VR), but would prefer not to disturb the O/P requirement... Otherwise, I've stared a thread on revolutionary cameras here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?board=3.0 and we are exactly at the point where I suggested the 220vr...
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Here's a couple of examples of the Pentax 645z shot with the new 28-45mm @ 28mm.
Whilst not traditional 'landscape' images, they are landscapes of a sort. Both just ready for final retouching, so there's a bit of polishing ready.
I love this camera, and have been shooting it alongside the others on every job the last 6 months. If I could have lenses with movements on it, I'm not sure how much use the Canon or the Arca + Credo set would have. There is an ease of use (UI) with Pentax cameras and the files are lovely to work with - malleable is the correct word I thi
I have the 28-45 on loan from Pentax. The 35/75&120 are all stunning lenses (IMO) on this camera (as they are on the canon 5dsr up with a shift adapter)
I think it all depends on how you want to work.
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The only downside to the Pentax is the cost of the 28-45mm - it's more than half the total budget. Don't get me wrong - I love what it gives me, and there is no peer in medium format (it's got VR!!).
There are a few leaf lenses available, but they're used and manual focus. But unlike Hasselblad & Phase, you can get TTL speedlights for the Pentax, and shoot HSS at 1/4000th of a second. Priolite also does strobes that will give you 1000w/s at any shutter speed on the 645z.
There are a thousand ways to skin this - generally speaking I'd say grab a Bronica if you want to just shoot film. If you want to add in digital later, grab a Hasselblad V series - there are existing backs that work now, and you have a great future even if it's limited to the current CFV-50c. Yes, you can get into a used PhaseOne kit with a lens or two for under $10k.
But without any shooting experience, I'd suggest finding either another shooter or a dealer local to you whom can help you gain experience. It's all about what trade offs you are make to create an image.
-Joe
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I resurrected my old Hassy V system a year or so ago by moving to a digital back. An advantage of the V system is that there's a pretty robust second hand market and you can probably assemble a nice kit within your budget if you stick with one of the older Hasselblad or P-series Phase One backs (I didn't, but that's a whole 'nother story). Chosen carefully, the V system Zeiss lenses perform quite well on the digital sensors, and can be had for a reasonable price, too (US$500-1000 for a good specimen in the "CF" series, depending on the lens and excluding the more exotic 40mm IF or Superachromats). There are two potential caveats, however. First, getting all the pieces to play nice together may require a visit to the shop to align the mirror and focusing screen - digital is in general less forgiving than film when it comes to focus accuracy, and cosmetically "mint" bodies can be significantly out of alignment. Second, you will need some patience and/or good eyes to get your images in sharp focus, at least initially. After years of using auto-focusing DSLRs, manual focusing on a ground glass was a skill I was forced to re-learn. But the results are worth the extra effort, in my opinion. YMMV, of course...
John
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I would go with a P45+ and a 645df system. As the XF came out there are plenty sold right now or you can even start with the 645af. You should more think about which system you like and than go down that route as you will be stacked with that system for years. Wouldn't like to work with Pentax for years. Contax and a phase system is also quite cool. And H-Series should be cheap to get to. Don't be fixated about the MP, it is not the only thing that makes DMF awesome.
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Not to rain on your parade, but the Roundshot is a scanback. If you want to know what you can do with a one shot solution in the panoramic format, check out Josef Koudelka or Carl de Keyzer.
No worries, not raining on anyones parade - of course it's a scan back. However it is a digital 6x17 cam.
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I don't agree the 645z is a minor jump over 35mm - in my experience it's a substantial jump. Sure I'd love a full sized phase one but the 645z packs a punch.
Once you have a 645z there are some great lenses without spending a fortune. For example the older 35mm/3.5 A lens, full electronic with metering except manual focus - and incredibly sharp even wide open let alone at f11-16. It's a great piece of glass and you can get a mint copy for 500-600. It makes a mockery of my much newer canon wides.
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32.8 mm x 43.8mm isn't a huge jump. That's just about 1.6-1.7 to full frame 35mm - so it's like the difference between APS-C and full frame.
Sure, it's different but not by much.
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If you are looking for more resolution for landscape then you won't be satisfied with anything less than a phase 60 or 80mp back with tech camera lenses. The medium format SLR setups still offer lots of detail potential but start to get closer to what the best 35mm systems offer nowadays specially with longer lenses.
A medium format system is much more than just getting more resolution. In the case of phase one and hasselblad it is more about working with a larger sensor (the 60 and 80mp ones, and all that entails), the versatility of being able to remove the back and use it in a tech camera, awesome tethering workflow, software integration (this is significant) and service and support. The Pentax 645Z is awesome but high quality lens selection is limited specially in the wide angle range although the 28-45mm zoom is quite recent and good but expensive. Used lenses are cheap (same with older Mamiya 645 / Phase One lenses) though.
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thank you all for your comments, they have helped.
I think I would like to go for an option which is upgradable as I go along. So I'd be looking at a digital back system rather than a 'fixed' setup like the Pentax 645z?
I already have highend canon dslrs, I'll be keeping my 1dx for sports & wildlife (well basically anything which moves) but am prepared to spend a lot of time getting to know a MF setup and workflow (including manual focusing)
So I am looking for a options for upgradable (and available) backs, body and lenses? of course I am considering all of this to be used equipment now. I'm going to go visit some photography shots in toronto and see what's about
do you generally buy a good camera and then upgrade the backs as you progress?
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Reconsider what you call upgrade-ability, as there are no new Hasselblad V mount bodies or lenses, but with the new CFV-50c or the IQ250/260/280, the V platform is very much alive and viable. The advantage of the 645z is the lower initial cost with the latest CMOS chip. It is weather sealed unlike any other line of medium format gear. It comes down to what is a deal breaker for you when it comes to photography. If strobes aren't part of what you'll be using, even the Contax stuff is viable, though more difficult to come by.
The Hasselblad H platform is great, as they're all newer lens designs, with better coatings, but are leaf shutter only. The DF/DF+ body are evolutions of the much older Mamiya 645 bodies, while the XF is brand spanking new in every way and a huge leap forward.
The big investment in MF is in the backs - and while you can swap them around, most folks only have one. Upgrading them is possible, but you'll most likely purchase a newer body with a newer back. The investment in lenses is what you'd be looking to preserve, not an investment in the body. For example, the XF doesn't work with P+ backs, so at some point more money will be involved.
32.8 mm x 43.8mm isn't a huge jump. That's just about 1.6-1.7 to full frame 35mm - so it's like the difference between APS-C and full frame.
Sure, it's different but not by much.
It's a lot different - plus you shift from a 2:3 to a 3:4 ratio. How the 50mp Sony handles mid & high-iso is leaps beyond 35mm stuff (removing the A7s).
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It's a lot different - plus you shift from a 2:3 to a 3:4 ratio. How the 50mp Sony handles mid & high-iso is leaps beyond 35mm stuff (removing the A7s).
Hmm yes, that's true, the 3:4 aspect ratio really does make a difference if you're otherwise forced to crop your photos, and the sensor is very advanced - however I still think the difference between a full frame 35mm and rather small MF sensor isn't that huge and if you're investing ±10.000$ you would really expect a big difference.
But I see your point and you are correct - the aspect ratio really does change a lot!
Yes, the XF is really advanced (and might I add - very beautiful too) but honestly I doubt the differences between the DF+ and the XF will greatly impact your photography style or anything else. The only problems I've encountered were with the AF system on the DF+, otherwise it's a perfectly fine camera with all the necessary features.
Sure, if you want to use a P+ back with an XF camera you're out of luck. But I really doubt that a beginner would consider spending another 10.000$ just to get a back for a camera he might now even want to purchase in the foreseeable future.
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With the budget at hand we're looking at an old Hassy or an old DF+. I'd choose the earlier for sure but it depends on what deals you can get. Here in Sweden you can get quite attractive deals on second hand Hassy gear, less often so with Phase One gear.
If you're only in it for the image quality the risk of disappointment is fairly large as you won't get the latest and greatest, and the latest and greatest 135 has come quite far. MFD lenses are excellent of course. I'm personally not fond of the non-round out of focus bokeh highlights of stopped down apertures though, but that's about the only thing that's not top notch. What can be disappointing is sensor performance, resolution, noise, ISO performance. Always make sure to use native software Phocus for Hassy and Capture One for Phase One, that can make a pretty large difference, mostly thanks to finely tuned noise reduction and good color profiles. I'm not that fond of Phase One colors, I think Hassy is better but that's a matter of taste. I make my own profiles regardless (using DCamProf) so that does not really matter, but that's me.
To be happy you should be into the handling and format as well I think. I like the ergonomics of the Hassy, nice large viewfinder. If you can make creative use of the fast leaf shutters that is a huge plus as that's a unique feature of these systems.
The reason I am myself using MF is only partly image quality, the major reason is the tech camera (a Linhof Techno) which gives me a "large format" workflow for creating images with lens movements. I have a H4D-50, but I have only occasionally used the body as for all hand-held "serious" work my Canon suits better. Instead I use the back on my tech cam. Had I been interested in flash photography I'm sure I would have played around with the possibilities the leaf shutter gives me though, so it's very personal.
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great thanks
I'm going to try and go and visit a shop at the weekend and have a chat, but is there a Hasselblad / back combo you would suggest? So I can start sniffing around the used section and ebay etc - just to get some idea of availability and cost
I appreciate any suggestion is going to be subjective based on your preferences, so dont worry I'm not going to come back in 2 months crying that you told me to get something which isnt suitable for me ;)
ideally I will be slinging the kit in a good backpack and heading off into the wilderness - then hopefully doubling up as a bit of portraiture (with studio lights/strobes) as a VERY secondary consideration.
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As a tech cam user I'm biased towards backs that works well on tech cams should you go down that path later. So H3DII-39 or H3DII-50 with an 80/2.8 lens would be something I'd look for and I think it should fit your budget. You need to use an external battery if used on tech cams, but it's not a big issue, I do that myself with my H4D-50. The 39 and 50 is 49x37mm sensors, a size I like very much and was the high end size for a while, but now it's on the way out, the future holds only 44x33 and 54x41 it seems. So if you go for that, be prepared that you may need to change format size if you upgrade, you probably will want 54x41 then in order to not "downgrade" the size.
If you're a high DR guy, you need at least the Dalsa 6um sensor and then Hassy is not a good budget choice as you need to get into H4D-60 at least to get that. Instead a Aptus-II 8 is probably the cheapest you can get there, but a P40+ is easier to find, those are 44x33mm sensors. At base ISO the H3DII-39 and H3DII-50 should match or even exceed your 1DX though as Canon is not known for high DR.
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so having a bit of a sniff around, I'm seeing it may be possible to pick up a Hassy 500 cm quite cheaply, with a 50mm f4 Zeiss Distagon C lens.
would this be suitable? I guess its all down the choice of back? I really dont mind using an 'old/manual' body but I am a little confused as to which back to go for.
The H series does seem aesthetically more pleasing than the V, but lenses seem to be much more expensive? I dont think I am ever going to be shooting film.
so the 500cm + 50mm is very cheap, but will obviously need a digital back to with it.
or there is a H3Dii-31 for $4500 - but will need a lens.
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The CFV backs looks best on the Hassy, but they're also a bit expensive compared to alternative on the second hand market as the V system is popular among enthusiasts. A CFV-50 back can cost more than a complete H3D-II 50 with 80mm lens. However additional lenses on the H system can be expensive as you've noted, also on the second hand market as the lenses are current.
CFV-39 or CFV-50 would be the preferred choices, or even the CFV-50c, but price/performance can be quite poor on the second hand market. V-mount P45+ is also usually quite expensive. The cheapest is probably if you manage to find an old and ugly CF-39 (which can be both V and H mount), it's the same sensor and the image quality should be the same as the CFV-39, but it's older and should be quite cheap. Hard to find though. It may be a bit larger risk with such old hardware, but I know people than run CF-22 today with no issues, except the clock battery which means you need to set the clock each time you start a shooting session.
Due to the difficulties in getting a cheap and good CFV back, I think it may be better to still go for an H system. If you can live with only the 80mm lens to start with you should be able to find a decently priced package.
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Since the back will probably be the costliest part of your investment, at least initially, I might start there and then choose a body + lens system that suits your needs and works within your budget while allowing a reasonable path to upgrade or expand the range of lenses (as noted by others on this forum, upgrading digital backs is generally a losing proposition from a financial point of view). Both the V- and H-series Hasselblads would seem to work under this strategy, with the V system showing a performance/cost advantage in the lenses.
If you ultimately decide to go with the V system, I would be careful about which lenses you choose. In general they perform very well, but you may find some (e.g., the older 50mm C that you mentioned) to be a bit soft at the edges and corners depending on the resolution and size of the sensor they are mated to. On the other hand, many are cheap enough that you can always sell them at minimal to no loss if you're not happy with their performance.
John
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A C lens will be optically very good. They come with or without a T* coating, the ones without will have a lovely flare (if you like that sort of thing).
A CF will always have the T* coating.
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And if you like the C, or indeed the CF look and lens price, you can use them on the H body with the converter, loosing autofocus of course, but maintaining metering.
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Pentax has the 645Z which has liveview and is cheap - $6995 at B&H
Hassy has the 50 Cmos back for V
Those are the only CMOS cheap choices. These are modern tech, with better screens and liveview which allows exact focus. They also come with full warranties.
I don't think Phase has a cheap entry level CMOS model. I would expect that when they have stopped waiting for Pentax/Ricoh and Hassy to go broke they will introduce one.
Phase and Hassy dealers will have some used/refurb offers for their older CCD lines. In Hassy terms these are called CPO.
Here is a UK price list, which shows the prices for used gear.
Some older Pentax 645D cameras are floating around the used market.
http://procentre.co.uk/sales-secondhand-medium-format-digital.php (http://procentre.co.uk/sales-secondhand-medium-format-digital.php)
All current digital backs are built to last forever, but minor maintenance eg. glass fllter or flash contact replacement, or column recalibration can cost as much as a mirroless SLR. If you buy used, test well before you buy.
Edmund
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I wonder... how many times the same "beginner" question has been asked? ...is it ten, is it 100, or is it 1000 times? ...I believe if the O/P "googles" the same question, he'll get just the same posts as he got here given to others before for very the same question... ;)
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I wonder... how many times the same "beginner" question has been asked? ...is it ten, is it 100, or is it 1000 times? ...I believe if the O/P "googles" the same question, he'll get just the same posts as he got here given to others before for very the same question... ;)
Perhaps
or perhaps new members have joined and have valuable opinions? Or the used markets have shifted , new options opened up etc etc
The internet isnt just a record, where you document one view-point or comment once and it should be referred to forever :)
very helpful and friendly discussion forums like this would die very quickly if that were the case.
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Perhaps
or perhaps new members have joined and have valuable opinions? Or the used markets have shifted , new options opened up etc etc
The internet isnt just a record, where you document one view-point or comment once and it should be referred to forever :)
very helpful and friendly discussion forums like this would die very quickly if that were the case.
The answer is still not "Perhaps"... it is rather "Yes! ...the "same" "opinion variations" will be read as "answers"... and yes! forum members do discuss the subjects over and over again yet retaining the same answers for the same questions... and yes! ...forums are fading out because of it! ...it used to be different here some YEARS ago...
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oh ok
I'm sorry for asking, I'll leave you guys to it.
Thanks for the helpful replies, I'll go and continue my search :)
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oh ok
I'm sorry for asking, I'll leave you guys to it.
Thanks for the helpful replies, I'll go and continue my search :)
Which ones are the "helpful" replies that where a "first" to you? (I mean the ones that are different suggestions to what there is already available if "googling" the same Q?) ...Is there any? My "observation" doesn't aim to have you feel "guilty for asking" (its rather the opposite)... It's just an observation of what the reality is.....
With MF you have the following "opinions": (that I'm sure you won't read in web),
1. People who think that MF is higher res...
2. People who think that MF is whatever is larger sensor than FF...
3. People who think that MF is for landscaes
4. People who think that MF is for other than landscapes,
5. People who think that is different...
6. People who think that it's not different...
7. People who think that it is an "idea"...
8. People who think it is about modularity...
9. People who think that it is about being "funboy of firms"...
10. People who think it is about "spending more is better"...
11. People who think that "the bigger you have it, the better you do it"...
12. People who think that they are doing photography when taking pictures...
....(I'm supersticious so I'll jump to 100...)
100... people that think it's a way to show off in forums...
So there you are... MF has different marketing, it has different looks, but its bigger problem is that people (or makers) can't agree what it is... So it all comes down for YOU decide where to fit... MY fit (MO)... is stick with the "traditional" which is "MF is not to replace FF", MF is both MF & LF these days and MF has nothing to do with being a makers victim... The choices of MF equipment then depends on what you do... Personally, what provides bread to my family's table is art repro... So I stick with equipment being a decade old that performs MUCH better than any "modern"... So I guess that for an answer to suit you, you first have to decide where you fit in the 100+ above list and then trust what the ones in the same ranking suggest...
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Let me add some "parameters" that you may have never considered...
1. when one buys an "old" (they are never old) MFDB never read an old review of it... Why? ...because its performance has nothing to do with what it can do with modern software...
2. Resolution is almost irrelevant to detail... If one compares a P25+ to an IQ 180 and prints at 4x3 feet (the same capture with the same software), he will hardly see any detail difference that he would consider serious to bother with (unless if he is mentally disturbed as to pixel peep with irrelevant to the art of photography matters)...
3. You'll hardly see any difference (the above parenthesis applies here too) with DR or rendering either...
4. You may find different "looks" between backs and that (IMO) is a key factor for your choice...
5. Forget about using ANY back (CMOS ones included) at above 400 Iso and retain "MF photography looks"... this thing doesn't exist... There are (now) backs that are able to shoot "clean" 6400 Iso... but that's irrelevant as to compare them with DSLRs being committed to job...
6. There is nothing to compare a multishot back in multishot mode for IQ, irrespective of resolution... (applies for stills only).
7. Older backs (up to 50mp with no microlenses on the sensor) are by far better than "modern" backs to use with technical cameras.
8. With technical cameras (ie "real" photography), right shimming of the (analog) VF can be as effective as any LV...
9... (up to 100+ because I'm tired...) You can read more crap on web than anywhere else...
That's (and careful planning) all you need... IMO.