Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: synn on September 15, 2015, 08:16:09 am

Title: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: synn on September 15, 2015, 08:16:09 am
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/breaking-news-sony-announces-addition-of-uncompressed-14-bit-raw-still-image-capture-for-new-%CE%B1-cameras/

Sony has listened to the people. One more thing that makes these cameras viable contenders as DSLR replacements.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: Otto Phocus on September 15, 2015, 08:24:16 am
Good for Sony! 
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 15, 2015, 09:33:02 am
Excellent news!

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: John Hollenberg on September 15, 2015, 10:11:03 am
Concerning that the link to the Sonyalphauniverse article (from the Sonyalpharumors article) that "broke" the news is broken.  Hope this is for real.

Edit: link to Sonyalphauniverse article now works.  Looks like the real deal!!!
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: shadowblade on September 15, 2015, 10:11:24 am
Fantastic news!

Hopefully they also extend it to the original A7r.

Also I'd be interested to see DxO re-test the DR (and other measurements) of these cameras with the uncompressed raw, to see what sort of improvement it achieves.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: AlterEgo on September 15, 2015, 10:55:38 am
One more thing that makes these cameras viable contenders as DSLR replacements.

note, that Synn did not say - MF replacements... 
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: AlterEgo on September 15, 2015, 10:57:09 am
Also I'd be interested to see DxO re-test the DR (and other measurements) of these cameras with the uncompressed raw, to see what sort of improvement it achieves.

I suggest http://www.photonstophotos.net instead, they (I mean BClaff in collaboration with JKasson) will retest for sure... with DxO I doubt
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: synn on September 15, 2015, 10:57:52 am
note, that Synn did not say - MF replacements...

Please take your trolling elsewhere. I started this thread to discuss a very positive bit of news. If you want to do yet another MF vs 135 discussion, take it to the MF forum. plenty of fish there to bite.

If you continue to try to derail this thread, I will report you to the moderators.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: Kevin Raber on September 15, 2015, 11:35:59 am
I'm thinking the firmware update will have more than just Uncompressed RAW.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: synn on September 15, 2015, 05:58:31 pm
That sounds enigmatic, Kevin. Do spill the beans!
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: alan_b on September 15, 2015, 09:24:23 pm
Hopefully lossless compression is coming too.  Who was asking for uncompressed?
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: shadowblade on September 17, 2015, 10:57:43 am
Also, hopefully, now that the A7s has been launched, the A9 (or whatever the new Sony pro-level body ends up being called) isn't far behind.

I want an A7rII with dual card slots, a bigger and more powerful battery and AF to match a non-sports SLR!
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 18, 2015, 07:01:46 am
Also, hopefully, now that the A7s has been launched, the A9 (or whatever the new Sony pro-level body ends up being called) isn't far behind.

I want an A7rII with dual card slots, a bigger and more powerful battery and AF to match a non-sports SLR!

Make it 120mp please. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: MarkL on September 18, 2015, 08:12:37 am
Crucially, is this for all release modes?

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/breaking-news-sony-announces-addition-of-uncompressed-14-bit-raw-still-image-capture-for-new-%CE%B1-cameras/

Sony has listened to the people. One more thing that makes these cameras viable contenders as DSLR replacements.

Given Sony's history of arrogance this is very encouraging, perhaps they are learning from Fuji? This move definitely makes me more likely to replace my D800E with Sony when the time is right.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: shadowblade on September 18, 2015, 12:07:18 pm
Make it 120mp please. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

I'd take 60MP with 16 stops of DR at base ISO (even if that means shooting at ISO 25)
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: shadowblade on September 29, 2015, 12:25:55 am
Have they said anything about when this is coming, or which cameras it will be extended to? Hope it includes the original A7r...
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: E.J. Peiker on October 02, 2015, 08:33:24 am
Have they said anything about when this is coming, or which cameras it will be extended to? Hope it includes the original A7r...
According to Sony Japan, in mid-October for the a7R II.  They have not, at this point, announced or committed to anything beyond the a7S II which will come with the uncompressed option and the a7R II which will get the firmware update.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: dwswager on October 12, 2015, 04:29:32 pm
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/breaking-news-sony-announces-addition-of-uncompressed-14-bit-raw-still-image-capture-for-new-%CE%B1-cameras/

Sony has listened to the people. One more thing that makes these cameras viable contenders as DSLR replacements.

Thumbs up to Sony!  Don't own one, but the more competition, the better we all end up.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: Paul Roark on October 16, 2015, 02:18:46 am
According to B&H, the firmware (version 2.0) for uncompressed 14-Bit RAW image capture will be available for download on October 19, 2015 from Sony’s e-support site (https://esupport.sony.com/). It will be a selectable feature within the a7r II's menu system.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: rogan on October 16, 2015, 08:06:49 pm
I'm guessing this may slow the FPS rate down. Curious how much?
Would be great if the update included a usb3 port;)
How in this day and age for someone trying to do a semi pro camera send out usb2 for 42 mp.
Can't imagine trying to tether this thing.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: ErikKaffehr on October 16, 2015, 08:42:42 pm
Hi,

According to DPReview FPS will not be affected but buffer capacity will be reduced.

Best regards
Erik


I'm guessing this may slow the FPS rate down. Curious how much?
Would be great if the update included a usb3 port;)
How in this day and age for someone trying to do a semi pro camera send out usb2 for 42 mp.
Can't imagine trying to tether this thing.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: RobertJ on October 17, 2015, 12:07:25 am
Can someone point out which camera settings make the camera go to 12 bit?  Will the firmware get rid of this behavior?
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: Theodoros on October 17, 2015, 01:31:40 pm
I was seriously considering to invest on an A7 (body only) as to combine it with a Cambo Actus and use it instead of an MFDB and the abscence of real raws was the major handicap I could find... I don't think that EVF cameras can replace OVF DSLRs for cases where one hand holds the camera, as I feel that a real optical autopsy is the only way to achieve the required "mind visualization", but for cases where the study of the subject/lighting (and hence the visualization) is performed without a need for one to look through the VF (as are the cases that the camera is on tripod) and the LV is used for the framing and DOF, I find that mirrorless cameras are better. Surely the combination of "real raw" A7Rii with an Actus, will rival any single shot MFDB/view camera combination by at least 95%... and only at a fraction of the cost...  ;)
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: rogan on October 17, 2015, 03:06:13 pm
I was seriously considering to invest on an A7 (body only) as to combine it with a Cambo Actus and use it instead of an MFDB and the abscence of real raws was the major handicap I could find... I don't think that EVF cameras can replace OVF DSLRs for cases where one hand holds the camera, as I feel that a real optical autopsy is the only way to achieve the required "mind visualization", but for cases where the study of the subject/lighting (and hence the visualization) is performed without a need for one to look through the VF (as are the cases that the camera is on tripod) and the LV is used for the framing and DOF, I find that mirrorless cameras are better. Surely the combination of "real raw" A7Rii with an Actus, will rival any single shot MFDB/view camera combination by at least 95%... and only at a fraction of the cost...  ;)

As EVF's get better you will see how crazy this is.
It makes it a lot easier in low light to do whateveryou said is
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: Theodoros on October 17, 2015, 04:06:06 pm
As EVF's get better you will see how crazy this is.
It makes it a lot easier in low light to do whateveryou said is

I never said anything about "easy" or "difficult"... I purely referred to visualization (and the creativity that is a consequence of it)... You talk about framing and focusing, which is completely different  and to some (me among them) of trivial importance if it is done through an EVF or an OVF... Visualization is when one pre-visualizes the final print in his mind. It is the fundamental behind every art and thus for photo-graphy too... It's the first chapter, in A.Adams very first book...
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: John Hollenberg on October 19, 2015, 10:13:09 am
Firmware update is here, installed in about 15 minutes without problems.  Link for those in the US:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=ILCE7RM2&template_id=1&region_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 19, 2015, 11:33:36 am
I'll confirm that the firmware installed easily enough.  The camera seems to be working just fine.  You can select compressed or uncompressed.  You will need to connect your camera to the computer for the update.  I wish it could be done by SD card update.  In any case all went well  Took about 15 minutes.
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: ctz on October 19, 2015, 11:55:31 am
Great to hear that the new firmware is out and everything goes smoothly.
I need to wait until I finish my 2 weeks project, for consistency, and also until Phase One will update CO for uncompressed files, before try it for myself.
We hear that the new firmware also brings simultaneous output to HDMI and USB tethering, which was not possible previously.
Does anyone use this setup and can confirm that it's changed?

Regards,
ctz
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: shadowblade on October 20, 2015, 04:50:42 am
How do the results compare with the compressed version?

I'd like to see a repeat of the DXOMark tests with uncompressed RAWs, to see how it compares with the D810.

Would also like to see it implemented in other E-mount cameras. Otherwise my A7r will probably be going on sale soon, after less than two years of service...
Title: Re: 14 bit compressed and uncompressed lossless RAW comes to E mount cameras
Post by: ACH DIGITAL on October 20, 2015, 08:46:30 am
Anyone tried to tether the camera with OS X El Capitan and Lightroom or Sony Remote Camera Control??