Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => Discussing Photographic Styles => Topic started by: Isaac on August 25, 2015, 04:33:04 pm

Title: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Isaac on August 25, 2015, 04:33:04 pm
No Title (Flying Picture), 2003 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-1.jpg) -- Daniel Gordon

Men of Good Fortune, 2011 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-21.jpg) -- Richard Mosse

Forest Red, 2012 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-31.jpg) -- Alejandra Laviada

Buildings And Pines, 2011 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-41.jpg) -- Lauren Marsolier

Response to Print of Kudzu, Texas, 2010 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-51.jpg) -- Laura Plageman

Burned Over #5, 2012 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-61.jpg) -- Amelia Bauer

Hug Grand Tetons, 2011 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-71.jpg) -- Letha Wilson

Spiral, 2013 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-81.jpg) -- Amanda Arcuri

Gyptic Hill Tomb of Thuvos, 2013 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-91.jpg) -- Adam Ryder

Stonehenge, 2007 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-101.jpg) from the series "Photo Opportunities" -- Corinne Vionnet

Title Landscape 1 (from 5 Landscape Modes), 2013 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-111.jpg) -- Jason Gowans

Three Rivers, 2013 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-121.jpg) -- Sadie Marie Wechsler

Echo Tee Rock from the series The Edge Effect, Joshua Tree National Park, California, 2012 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-131.jpg) -- Daniel Kukla

And Still We Gather With Infinite Momentum, 2009 (http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-141.jpg) -- Justin James King


"14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME (http://time.com/4003527/future-of-photography"/)
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: RSL on August 25, 2015, 05:47:10 pm
Thanks, Isaac. There's some interesting stuff in that collection. The last one is stunning.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on August 26, 2015, 03:55:13 am
Thanks, Isaac. There's some interesting stuff in that collection. The last one is stunning.

A mixed bag. I agree the last is particularly good but I confess I've not the faintest idea what the title adds to it - or even is supposed to mean.

Jeremy
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: spidermike on August 26, 2015, 04:05:00 am
I've not the faintest idea what the title adds to it - or even is supposed to mean.



That was my immediate thought as well. Then I got to thinking about who the readership of the Time magazine actually is  - the general public whose idea of landscape photography is probably sweeping vistas like the High Plains or the Grand Canyon. Or a schoolroom stood alone against a backdrop of the Rockies. Abstracting elements of a landscape, as many of these do, is probably new to their definition of 'landscape photography'.

For photographers themselves (which this site is all about) it is pretty much old hat.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Robert Roaldi on August 26, 2015, 07:08:24 am
From a review of his work: http://portable.tv/loves/post/and-still-we-gather-with-infinite-momentum/ (http://portable.tv/loves/post/and-still-we-gather-with-infinite-momentum/)
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: stamper on August 26, 2015, 07:18:33 am
I find the black background in the last one distracting. The foreground is fine but over all a better background would be a possible improvement?
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: elliot_n on August 26, 2015, 08:33:01 am
The black background is the whole point. See Robert's link.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Otto Phocus on August 26, 2015, 08:36:19 am
What is "the definition of Landscape photography" that these photographs challenged?

They all look like nice landscape type pictures to me.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: stamper on August 26, 2015, 08:46:12 am
The black background is the whole point. See Robert's link.

It maybe his point but possibly a black background with a gradient - fading to a very dark grey - from the top to the figure would imo be better? Or is it once we have looked at the image we accept it as it is or not at all, meaning no comment? It isn't as if I am rejecting the whole concept. :)
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: spidermike on August 27, 2015, 03:41:25 pm
Luminous Landscape Forum > Equipment & Techniques > Landscape & Nature Photography

No sweeping vistas here :-)

which is why I added

Quote
For photographers themselves (which this site is all about) it is pretty much old hat.

 :) :)
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Mjollnir on September 29, 2015, 02:14:57 pm
Wow.

Those photographs, to my estimate, challenge absolute nothing other than the rationality of the people who are claiming that they actually are.

The last one is OK, the rest are as unimaginative and pedestrian as they come.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on September 29, 2015, 03:49:20 pm
Wow.

Those photographs, to my estimate, challenge absolute nothing other than the rationality of the people who are claiming that they actually are.

The last one is OK, the rest are as unimaginative and pedestrian as they come.


Agreed:

a. Spiral: Albert Watson did the same thing far, far better on Skye;

b. the last one: Patrick Lichfield did much the same thing again, far, far better with a mock-Indian maiden for Unipart.

What to say that's positive? Nuttin'.

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: GrahamBy on September 30, 2015, 03:00:41 am
Some are pretty. I like the first one. The game of "it's important to Art because it's Original" doesn't interest me.
I'd probably say that none of them represent what I expect to see under the heading "landscape", which to me is a good thing.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on September 30, 2015, 08:09:02 am
Those photographs, to my estimate, challenge absolute nothing other than the rationality of the people who are claiming that they actually are.

The last one is OK, the rest are as unimaginative and pedestrian as they come.
Can you show us some of your imaginative work then please, so we can be inspired?

Despite others really liking the last shot, that looks more like a snapshot to me.

This is the one I found most interesting.
(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/guest-curator-jon-feinstein-51.jpg)
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Mjollnir on October 02, 2015, 07:32:43 pm
Can you show us some of your imaginative work then please, so we can be inspired?


Why?  This isn't about me.  Click on my handle if you're looking for some of my work.  If you get inspired, let me know and I'll bill you.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on October 03, 2015, 04:34:39 pm
Why?  This isn't about me. 
No, but it so easy to slag other's work off. If you cannot do better, than best not to put others down.

Quote
Click on my handle if you're looking for some of my work.  If you get inspired, let me know and I'll bill you.
I did. There are no links to you or your work.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Isaac on October 03, 2015, 11:04:58 pm
It's so easy to slag other's work off.

It's so easy to slag other's work off, without contributing any insight or understanding.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on October 05, 2015, 09:00:49 am
It's so easy to slag other's work off.

It's so easy to slag other's work off, without contributing any insight or understanding.
So pointless too. Most of art/music etc that others create is not to our taste, so saying you do not like something is about the most irrelevant thing you can say.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: MoreOrLess on October 07, 2015, 02:18:18 am
I like that shot posted above although I really fail to see how it "challenges" landscape photography, a lot of the other stuff on that list just seem gimmicky and far from the best use of those gimmicks I'v seen.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on October 07, 2015, 04:13:26 am
So pointless too. Most of art/music etc that others create is not to our taste, so saying you do not like something is about the most irrelevant thing you can say.

Strange comment.

The thread was, one wold imagine, posted here precisely because people's views were being sought. Otherwise, it, the post itself, would have been 'irrelevant'.

Do only those things said, in agreement with whatever, count as 'relevant'? Perhaps, in some cases some think that is so.

Smacks of 'what I say is so; you others shut the eff up...'

But of course, I'm probably mistaken. don't quite grasp the zeitgeist.

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: GrahamBy on October 07, 2015, 04:20:29 am
Finally, isn't "I like it" or "I don't like it" the only completely honest thing aesthetic judgement one can make? If I say one of those, I speak for me. If I say "this is a great/crap photo", I'm trying to speak for everyone, which is bound to fail.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: AreBee on October 07, 2015, 05:15:29 am
Rob,

Quote
The thread was, one wold imagine, posted here precisely because people's views were being sought...

...on how 14 photos challenge the definition of landscape photography, not on their likeability.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on October 07, 2015, 06:09:51 am
Rob,

...on how 14 photos challenge the definition of landscape photography, not on their likeability.


But Rob, as they (the photos) obviously haven't changed any definition of anything, there would have been nothing left upon which to comment, would there, and poor old Isaac would have been left talking to himself; who could be so unkind?

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: AreBee on October 07, 2015, 07:11:34 am
Rob,

Quote
...they (the photos) obviously haven't changed any definition of anything...

Have you experienced a landscape with a crumpled-paper background often?
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on October 07, 2015, 07:52:09 am
Strange comment.

The thread was, one wold imagine, posted here precisely because people's views were being sought. Otherwise, it, the post itself, would have been 'irrelevant'.

Do only those things said, in agreement with whatever, count as 'relevant'? Perhaps, in some cases some think that is so.

Smacks of 'what I say is so; you others shut the eff up...'

But of course, I'm probably mistaken. don't quite grasp the zeitgeist.
Re the part in bold. Not at all, my simply saying I dislike something is just as irrelevant as anyone else saying the same thing. Though I try and say it's not to my taste  which is actually a neutral statement reflecting on me. Rather than the usual 'It's crap' when someone comments on something not to their taste, a pointless statement about the subject instead.
The reality is that we all like a small subset of what art, music whatever is presented to us and we all like to think we have good taste. The reality is that we simply have different taste. Commenting on all the things we do not like, i.e. the majority of art is a rather negative thing. This is a separate and quite different thing from constructive criticism BTW.

As for comments that are relevant, someone who likes say Justin Bieber would be the best sort of person to review a Justin Bieber concert. Why? Because they are the customer who actually wants to go to such a gig - doesn't mean they will not be uncritical. If a film reviewer hates horror movies, are they going to give one a fair review unlike someone who does appreciate the genre? Again it doesn't mean they will not be critical of flaws.
Personally I like 'good' films regardless of genre as to my mind a good story is a good story. But that is a rare thing as people tend to like a subsection of film types. My music collection is also much more eclectic than most, as I enjoy a huge range of very disparate genres, though with a slight favouritism of minor chords and fast rhythms. A combination that can be found in most genres however.
I've done film and music reviews by the way and what I noticed was that it is so much easier to write negative reviews than positive ones. The English language seems to have a lot more variety of negative than positive words. Plus it's easier to be entertaining whilst slating someone. A colleague once admitted to writing a bad review of a band that she was actually quite impressed by, because that was the easy option.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on October 07, 2015, 07:54:02 am
Rob,

...on how 14 photos challenge the definition of landscape photography, not on their likeability.
It's a clickbait headline certainly, but your point still stands. Likeability is not really the point in question here. Though many have taken that line.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: GrahamBy on October 07, 2015, 08:22:26 am
I'm a
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: AreBee on October 07, 2015, 09:14:30 am
Graham,

Quote
I'm a

...few keystrokes short of a sentence?
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on October 07, 2015, 09:15:32 am
Rob,

Have you experienced a landscape with a crumpled-paper background often?

I have experienced every kind of print as a wet (or dry) crumpled up print at one stage or another: it's called self-critical discipline!

Gimmicks are not art; they are desperate calls for help in making something out of nothing.

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on October 07, 2015, 10:44:18 am
I have experienced every kind of print as a wet (or dry) crumpled up print at one stage or another: it's called self-critical discipline!

Gimmicks are not art; they are desperate calls for help in making something out of nothing.
;-)
Any technique used appropriately is not a gimmick.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: GrahamBy on October 07, 2015, 11:53:29 am
Graham,

...few keystrokes short of a sentence?

Argh, accidentally submitted by bumping the wrong key, immediately edited but that was lost.

My intention was to ask what is the current definition of a landscape? It seems futile to discuss challenges to it without agreeing on what it is.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on October 07, 2015, 12:03:31 pm
Any technique used appropriately is not a gimmick.

Just as long as it's one's own or makes an argument appear sound.

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on October 07, 2015, 12:09:44 pm
Argh, accidentally submitted by bumping the wrong key, immediately edited but that was lost.

My intention was to ask what is the current definition of a landscape? It seems futile to discuss challenges to it without agreeing on what it is.


Graham, you're straying dangerously close to the point where someone, somewhere, will waken up and ask: what's the definition of art, Mum?

When that happens, this entire website might as well close right down and go home, go fishing, skiing or whatever takes its fancy, because photography will be dead.

It thrives on uncertainty, lack of buyer/viewer confidence, just like any art market. Which might pose the question with which I came in: what's art? But for the sake of my beloved LuLa I shan't ask that!

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on October 07, 2015, 01:49:26 pm
My intention was to ask what is the current definition of a landscape? It seems futile to discuss challenges to it without agreeing on what it is.
One view could be...A photo of the natural outdoors - with some land in it. But may include buildings on said land or things growing on the land.
A cityscape is when subject gets more urban and the land beneath buildings tends to not be seen.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Isaac on October 07, 2015, 02:03:52 pm
But Rob, as they (the photos) obviously haven't changed any definition of anything, there would have been nothing left upon which to comment, would there, and poor old Isaac would have been left talking to himself; who could be so unkind?

You are not being kind. You are being condescending.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on October 07, 2015, 03:11:17 pm
You are not being kind. You are being condescending.

Oh for crissaks, lighten up and don't be so literal!

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Isaac on October 07, 2015, 04:31:08 pm
Go tell someone who's standing before you, what they should do!

This isn't your personal web site.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: GrahamBy on October 08, 2015, 04:03:59 am
ROFL

"I'm the god-damn emperor and if I say my clothes are stunning, what right do you have to tell me they're... undefined..."

Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Rob C on October 08, 2015, 04:13:35 am
I can understand ever more clearly the impossibility of getting through to, of communicating with someone who has absolutely no natural understanding about human nature, its subtleties and layers of expressional complexity.

Literal is the course of the machine.

Rob C
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: GrahamBy on October 08, 2015, 09:25:25 am
Not to be confused with...

http://content.ngv.vic.gov.au/retrieve.php?size=1280&type=image&vernonID=5626
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Isaac on October 09, 2015, 04:41:58 pm
I can understand ever more clearly the impossibility of getting through to, of communicating with someone who has absolutely no natural understanding about human nature, its subtleties and layers of expressional complexity.

It's always someone else's fault that you are so misunderstood.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: Isaac on October 09, 2015, 04:46:22 pm
ROFL

"I'm the god-damn emperor and if I say my clothes are stunning, what right do you have to tell me they're... undefined..."

They aren't my clothes -- say what you like about them, without making condescending remarks about me.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jeremyrh on October 20, 2015, 05:01:17 am
Can you show us some of your imaginative work then please, so we can be inspired?

Or as a good substitute, show us some work you find inspiring along with some explanation of why that is.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: jjj on October 20, 2015, 12:58:07 pm
Or as a good substitute, show us some work you find inspiring along with some explanation of why that is.
Why is the onus on the person who is not slagging of other's work to find inspiring work?
Not a huge fan of landscape photography anyway, so I'd be the wrong person to ask to for suggestions in that area. However I did post one of the pictures in question along with what you just quoted,  because I thought that was rather interesting. It wasn't just a pretty picture, which I tend to find rather anodyne.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: sarrasani on November 09, 2015, 08:00:57 am
I only saw the I and the II.
terrific colour rendition, snapshot detail, so-so composition.....
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: torger on December 04, 2015, 09:27:34 am
You can't just pick a picture out of it's context and say if it's good or bad. Oh well, you can of course if you like, but if the photo comes from a series in an art project I think you need to consider the art project as a whole, and how that image fits into that particular context.

In most art photography projects there is no intention to make pictures that people hang on the wall in their own homes over their fireplace. They're made to be shown as a series in an art gallery, together with a text that provides the context of the images that makes you think when you watch the images, and that's what that type of art is about. It's not about making school-book perfect compositions of all-beautiful scenes.

Take the second picture for example of Richard Mosse which I happened to recognize, it's from his Infra series shot on Kodak Aerochrome, covering the conflict in Democratic Republic of Congo. It's not just landscape, there's pictures of soldiers in war too.
Title: Re: 14 Photos That Challenge the Definition of Landscape Photography | TIME
Post by: GrahamBy on December 09, 2015, 10:08:46 am
In most art photography projects there is no intention to make pictures that people hang on the wall in their own homes over their fireplace. They're made to be shown as a series in an art gallery, together with a text that provides the context of the images that makes you think when you watch the images, and that's what that type of art is about.

Taking your comment partly out of context :)...

Does this mean that there is necessarily a schism between an artist who aspires to sell to (or just exhibit in) a museum and one who hopes to sell to private individuals through a commercial gallery? What about the notion that a museum should not be trying to define (good) art, but merely capture and preserve what is the state of Art at a given time?

Questions posed in genuine naïvété...