Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: drewk425 on July 08, 2015, 01:12:04 am
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Great article by Mark Segal on the Epson P800. I am curious if anyone has an opinion on how this printer compares to the smaller format Canon Pixma Pro1 which doesn't experience the nozzle cleaning issues.
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Great article by Mark Segal on the Epson P800. I am curious if anyone has an opinion on how this printer compares to the smaller format Canon Pixma Pro1 which doesn't experience the nozzle cleaning issues.
What nozzle cleaning issues. I haven't heard of any nozzle cleaning issues with the SC P800 or predecessor the 3880, or before that the 3800.
Brian A
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What nozzle cleaning issues. I haven't heard of any nozzle cleaning issues with the SC P800 or predecessor the 3880, or before that the 3800.
Kidding, right?
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What nozzle cleaning issues. I haven't heard of any nozzle cleaning issues with the SC P800 or predecessor the 3880, or before that the 3800.
Brian A
Brian - you're right about the 3800/3880 - minimum concern about clogging. The SCP800 has been on the market for less than two weeks, so it's a bit early to know. Time will tell.
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Brian - you're right about the 3800/3880 - minimum concern about clogging. The SCP800 has been on the market for less than two weeks, so it's a bit early to know. Time will tell.
For many, perhaps that's right about 3800/3880 clogging. But there are many threads and messages from the folks who have had problems. In my case, my 3880 is unusable due to a clog that has resisted my attempts to clear it, even going so far as the "Windex on paper towel" technique. I'm waiting for a new vivid magenta tank to try the Windex again and then a head cleaning. I hope that is not sunk money better used for another printer. :(
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Bob, Internet chatter is a dangerous source from which to generalize because of human nature: we're far less prone to singing the praises of our printers on the Internet than to complain loudly and publicly if they aren't working properly, so the "many folks and threads" I take with a grain of salt. Your personal experience of course you can't ignore - it's just as real as everyone elses'; but on the whole those printer models do have a comparatively stellar performance reputation within the Epson Pro line-up. Now turning to your case - the issue is whether your channel is clogged or the printhead has become defective in that area. If the clog has repeatedly the same pattern to it after multiple attempts at proper cleaning procedure, this may well be head failure, in which case you should probably replace it with a P800.
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... The SCP800 has been on the market for less than two weeks, so it's a bit early to know...
.. which is why I find it difficult to imagine there being any reports of 'nozzle cleaning' issues with it.
Brian A
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Bob, Internet chatter is a dangerous source from which to generalize because of human nature: we're far less prone to singing the praises of our printers on the Internet than to complain loudly and publicly if they aren't working properly, so the "many folks and threads" I take with a grain of salt. Your personal experience of course you can't ignore - it's just as real as everyone elses'; but on the whole those printer models do have a comparatively stellar performance reputation within the Epson Pro line-up. Now turning to your case - the issue is whether your channel is clogged or the printhead has become defective in that area. If the clog has repeatedly the same pattern to it after multiple attempts at proper cleaning procedure, this may well be head failure, in which case you should probably replace it with a P800.
Thanks for the tip - I'll try to look for head failure.
As for "it clogs," "no it doesn't," I'm not sure where an objective source of true facts are. Yes, folks with no problems probably don't start threads nor join others. But folks posting problems probably do have problems.
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As for "it clogs," "no it doesn't," I'm not sure where an objective source of true facts are. Yes, folks with no problems probably don't start threads nor join others. But folks posting problems probably do have problems.
There is no doubt that there are problems with 'some' 3880s just as there are with any printer. The question is what is the total installed base versus the Internet reports of problems. I suspect that for the 3880 problems/total installed base is a very small fraction. As I've already noted on several occasions my 3880 is just over 4 years old and has never seen a clog in its life. But of course this is n=1 in terms of user experience.
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There is no doubt that there are problems with 'some' 3880s just as there are with any printer. The question is what is the total installed base versus the Internet reports of problems. I suspect that for the 3880 problems/total installed base is a very small fraction. As I've already noted on several occasions my 3880 is just over 4 years old and has never seen a clog in its life. But of course this is n=1 in terms of user experience.
And so I ask, where is an objective source of true data? You suspect limited problems, and may well be right. But I don't know where a good data source is. Dealers who've sold and then serviced a large number of units?
Not that it makes any different to someone with a problem. And doubly so now that the P800 is available. For me, I'd rather fix my 3880 (if it's fixable via unclogging rather than a head replacement) than to buy a new printer; but if time tells us that the P800 is actually less likely to clog than a 3880, that would be good news and valuable information.
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The question is what is the total installed base versus the Internet reports of problems. I suspect that for the 3880 problems/total installed base is a very small fraction.
and what do you think is the % of the problems that are reported on forums that you frequent ?
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Great article by Mark Segal on the Epson P800. I am curious if anyone has an opinion on how this printer compares to the smaller format Canon Pixma Pro1 which doesn't experience the nozzle cleaning issues.
What nozzle cleaning issues? Personally I have never had a problem with a 3880 in 4 years related to cleaning. I have had other problems but they were fixed under warranty. Who knows about the P800 yet.
If you are comparing a large format printer to something smaller then you may as well compare a truck to a motorcycle. If you need a large format printer then a small one is a waste of money.
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What nozzle cleaning issues? Personally I have never had a problem with a 3880 in 4 years related to cleaning. I have had other problems but they were fixed under warranty. Who knows about the P800 yet.
If you are comparing a large format printer to something smaller then you may as well compare a truck to a motorcycle. If you need a large format printer then a small one is a waste of money.
I think he was more after the technical differences in print heads.
In my personal experience, the PRO-1 has caused me zero clogging problems in the year I've had it. My 3880 is currently dead from either a clogged or failed head (I'm still trying to figure out which it is).
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There is no doubt that there are problems with 'some' 3880s just as there are with any printer. The question is what is the total installed base versus the Internet reports of problems. I suspect that for the 3880 problems/total installed base is a very small fraction. As I've already noted on several occasions my 3880 is just over 4 years old and has never seen a clog in its life. But of course this is n=1 in terms of user experience.
I have had very definite problems with my 3880 that caused much frustration, but my problem wasn't clogs. My main issues was stray ink blobs dribbling onto the print surface, thus ruining the print. It got progressively worse. Cleaning cycles did essentially nothing to resolve my issues with my 3880. Then my "nozzle checks" began to show cross channel contamination, for example, the cyan channel had cyan and black in the pattern, the magenta channel had cyan and magenta in the pattern, yet no gaps in the lines!!!. The printer was about 3 years old at that point, but honestly, it had had very little use which may have contributed to my problems. I checked into what it would cost to service out of warranty... Ridiculous...better to buy a new printer. So, I decided that with nothing to lose, I would try some draconian print head cleaning methods. I started with the famous Windex paper towel trick, i.e., pull the power chord with the print head in mid cycle to get it free and clear of the capping station. Slide it back and forth over a Windex soaked paper towel placed underneath... you would not believe the amount of gunk that came off onto the paper towel including a cat hair or two! Carefully clean the capping station rubber parts as well with Q-tips and more Windex.
Bottom line. My 3880 is now printing better than ever!. No clogs, no ink dribble! The moral of this story? What are widely believed to be clogs in the nozzles can indeed be gunk built up on the print head surface or air in the lines as well. IMHO, there is probably some truth to the horror stories on the Internet about every inkjet printer on the market. Epson may indeed lead the pack on complaints, however, none of us knows the installed user base, so user complaints in forums are not easy to correlate with percentage of printer problems in the field. My 3880 is alive and well these days, making great prints, and now about four years old as well.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Very probable cat hair was at the core of your problem
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Very probable cat hair was at the core of your problem
Yup, but all my printers, both Canon and Epson, coexist in the same environment, and my wife loves her cats so I can't get rid of them :). Inkjet printers have to work in the real world. The manufacturers need to be more forthcoming about what cleaning tips and techniques the enduser can resort to without having to send the printer in for service. Just relying on the "cleaning cycles" in the software is clearly not enough.
cheers,
Mark
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Yes, but beyond that it gets complicated for many users and these companies are very risk averse about what they're comfortable letting customers tinker with as a matter of policy. And no, you can't expect the manufacturers to cat-proof your printer.
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Yes, but beyond that it gets complicated for many users and these companies are very risk averse about what they're comfortable letting customers tinker with as a matter of policy. And no, you can't expect the manufacturers to cat-proof your printer.
It not just cat hair. It's all kind of dust and debris plus accumulated ink build up on the head surface that may or may not have anything to do with cleanliness in the environment. You mentioned paper dust coming from Canson Platine paper being problematic to your Epson 4900 in another thread. The enduser can't run a printer in a class 100 clean room, and it wouldn't work anyway if the media is a source of the debris. Canon and HP have a simple fix. The enduser can easily replace the print heads. Yes, it's not cheap to replace a Canon print head (HP not as bad), but it's a fixed cost one can factor into the total cost of ownership, and it gets the job done without having to send the printer in for service that will generate some unknown cost for repairs not to mention all the down time. Epson piezo heads are clearly different than HP and Canon thermal heads, and to date, they are not easily replaceable in the field without an expensive Epson repair guy coming on site or the printer being sent back to a service center. IMHO, Epson needs to evaluate various technical options that could be implemented in new printer models to be more competitive in this particular vulnerability which otherwise is admittedly common to all inkjet printers.
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A user here recently reported that his printer dealer ditched Epson and changed to Canon because of customer clogging problems. A bit of real world info.
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A user here recently reported that his printer dealer ditched Epson and changed to Canon because of customer clogging problems. A bit of real world info.
A dealer that doesn't sell a major brand of printers? It must be a very small business. I like to support small local shops whenever I can, but carrying only one major brand of inkjet printers? That begs a lot of questions about the dealer's ability to properly support even that particular brand.
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A user here recently reported that his printer dealer ditched Epson and changed to Canon because of customer clogging problems. A bit of real world info.
Is he still in business?
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It not just cat hair. It's all kind of dust and debris plus accumulated ink build up on the head surface that may or may not have anything to do with cleanliness in the environment. You mentioned paper dust coming from Canson Platine paper being problematic to your Epson 4900 in another thread. The enduser can't run a printer in a class 100 clean room, and it wouldn't work anyway if the media is a source of the debris. Canon and HP have a simple fix. The enduser can easily replace the print heads. Yes, it's not cheap to replace a Canon print head (HP not as bad), but it's a fixed cost one can factor into the total cost of ownership, and it gets the job done without having to send the printer in for service that will generate some unknown cost for repairs not to mention all the down time. Epson piezo heads are clearly different than HP and Canon thermal heads, and to date, they are not easily replaceable in the field without an expensive Epson repair guy coming on site or the printer being sent back to a service center. IMHO, Epson needs to evaluate various technical options that could be implemented in new printer models to be more competitive in this particular vulnerability which otherwise is admittedly common to all inkjet printers.
Yup - largely correct. However, I can't believe Epson hasn't evaluated everything the competition is doing, yet they sustain their piezo-electric head technology. I've heard it's because they are of the view that it delivers the finest, most accurate results achievable with inkjet technology to date. As you know, technological choice always involves compromises and they've decided on theirs. If they were losing market share in spades to Canon in HP because of this I should expect they would have reconceptualized the printhead by now; but the fact they haven't, I suppose one can say is the market speaking. I've had some extensive discussion with one of the most experienced and knowledgeable technical people on inkjet printers - he services them all: Epson Canon, Roland, Mutoh, etc.) - does not work for Epson. He advised that the most frequent source of clogging by far is the cleaning and capping mechanism, not the printhead. He tells me that the need for head replacement is very unusual, but replacing the pump/cap/wiper assembly is more frequent and usually fixes these problems. If you do have a head failure on an Epson printer, however, you do not want servicemen or head replacement - can end-up more expensive than a new printer, which comes with ink and a warranty. All that said, I would dearly love to see a model that has the reliability of a 3880 and the gamut of a 4900. That would be one helluva machine!
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Regarding the dealer who switched brands, I don't have any further info. Just quoting a conversation someone here had.