Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: yashima on June 20, 2015, 12:42:58 pm
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If you don't dare to go down the path of technical camera and digital lenses yet, what is the best alternative solution to add some tilt shift capability to your digital back, and maybe at the same time utilising your existing gears?
1. adapt your back to Fuji GX680 system
2. use V back with flexbody and CF/CFi/CFE lenses
3. adapt your back to field (Linhof Technika etc), monorail (Sinar etc) and old LF lenses
4. (this is not a digital back but just throw it in as a viable alternative), use your Sony A camera with tilt shift lenses, or tilt shift adapter and Contax/Hasselblad lenses
5. ?
The main point is to add some tilt shift capability, assuming you are already relatively happy with the resolution of your lenses. Please share your experience.
I have a Contax/Phase system, while I'm very happy with it, I really want to add some tilt shift occasionally, however can't really figure out how. I also have an LF 4x5 film system, so thinking of going path 3. If you have specific experience regarding these, I'd love to hear your advice.
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Hcam B1 and Alpa FPS are also possible options.
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Alpa FPS with all the relevant adapter would be more than 12k, if I go there I would probably go all the way to STC & digital lenses. I just cant quite justify the cost yet.
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try getting a used Cambo, Silvestri or Horseman ( not geared the last one I think).
a Cambo Wide DS or Silvestri Bicam II/ III should be well < 2000€.
just saw that Silvestri website has a demo Bicam III in their offers. finding some used lenses with their mount may be trickier. perhaps Cambo might be a better solution here.
The tech cam body is probably the least expensive bit in this case. finding the right lenses in the right mounts and getting all the accessories is trickier. there are used lenses around 650-1000€, of course not the Apo Super HR stuff.
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You made a nice list so far already. I use the Linhof Technika often enough, plus the X-Act2. I also made a really poor man's camera using a revolving 4x5 film back piece from cambo and a plate of aluminum with an offset center hole. I mounted a 35mm lens in copal shutter on a helical and -gasp- used cardboard as the spacer to adjust for infinity. Bought all the bits on ebay for very little money (except the 35mm lens which I already had). You read all about how much precision is required and well… somehow this works fine.
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Cambo Actus: well-machined, very light, rigid--geared swings and tilts on front standard. Generous rise/fall and shift movements on the back standard.
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First question is what back are you using with what mount?
I guess maybe it can be argued that the next paragraph should be in the "for sale or wtb" section but it's really just a suggestion if you happen to be interested.
I have a Cambo Wide DS and a Schneider digitar 47 and Rodenstock 55 (HUGE image circle) that that I would sell at a very competitive price either whole or in part ;D (I am using a newer Cambo tech cam and some t/s Rodenstocks now...) I haven't really been chomping at the bit to sell my Wide DS and the aforementioned lenses because, well, they work really well even though they aren't getting much use.
That is surely the cheapest way in. Cambo is seriously good stuff and there are upgrade paths that are affordable (relative term when we start talking lenses...) if you decide you want to upgrade.
If you don't dare to go down the path of technical camera and digital lenses yet, what is the best alternative solution to add some tilt shift capability to your digital back, and maybe at the same time utilising your existing gears?
1. adapt your back to Fuji GX680 system
2. use V back with flexbody and CF/CFi/CFE lenses
3. adapt your back to field (Linhof Technika etc), monorail (Sinar etc) and old LF lenses
4. (this is not a digital back but just throw it in as a viable alternative), use your Sony A camera with tilt shift lenses, or tilt shift adapter and Contax/Hasselblad lenses
5. ?
The main point is to add some tilt shift capability, assuming you are already relatively happy with the resolution of your lenses. Please share your experience.
I have a Contax/Phase system, while I'm very happy with it, I really want to add some tilt shift occasionally, however can't really figure out how. I also have an LF 4x5 film system, so thinking of going path 3. If you have specific experience regarding these, I'd love to hear your advice.
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Thank you FMuller for your offer (I will converse privately in PM), but the spirit of this thread is not about what tech cam system is affordable, but rather what are alternative ways to expand & utilise our existing systems, to achieve what digital tech cam can do, for those who are not ready to go there yet.
(regarding your first question, I have an old V back and a modern IQ Contax 645 back)
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You made a nice list so far already. I use the Linhof Technika often enough, plus the X-Act2. I also made a really poor man's camera using a revolving 4x5 film back piece from cambo and a plate of aluminum with an offset center hole. I mounted a 35mm lens in copal shutter on a helical and -gasp- used cardboard as the spacer to adjust for infinity. Bought all the bits on ebay for very little money (except the 35mm lens which I already had). You read all about how much precision is required and well… somehow this works fine.
Hi Eric. Yes thats what I'm looking for! Do you use a live view back with your Technika/Xact2? And with which lenses?
Very intrigued about your "cardboard" set up, please share an image if possible! I have a graflex XL helical mount on Toyo lens board, I'm about to do something similar. Or maybe a Speed Graphic even! You ever seen a digiback with a Speed Graphic? I might be able to use some brass barrel lens with it 8)
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Yashima,
I'll post a pick of my home made camera next time I'm at my studio. I use several backs, but I fit my Leaf AFi-ii 12 to the Linhof via the Leaf AFi/Hy6 to Graflok adapter. This takes the back and fits into any 4x5 camera like a film holder would. I can easily put this into any LF camera with a graflok mount - which means it also works with my polaroid 110B rangefinders and my Graflex Speed Graphic. I have a similar graflok adapter for H Mount backs, probably you can find one for V too?
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Hi,
I have the Flexbody and I don't it is really practical when shooting outdoors with the P45+ I have. A live view back like the IQ-250 or the CFV-50c would be much more practical. The problem is that the P45+ needs to be removed and the viewing adapter attached for composition and focusing. Other than that it works great.
What I see in the future is the HCam Master TS adapter for the Sony A7rII.
Previously I felt that a Hartblei HCam B1 would be in my future, but now I feel MFD is sort of a parenthesis in my technique, I will keep it (probably) but not put any more money in it.
Best regards
Erik
If you don't dare to go down the path of technical camera and digital lenses yet, what is the best alternative solution to add some tilt shift capability to your digital back, and maybe at the same time utilising your existing gears?
1. adapt your back to Fuji GX680 system
2. use V back with flexbody and CF/CFi/CFE lenses
3. adapt your back to field (Linhof Technika etc), monorail (Sinar etc) and old LF lenses
4. (this is not a digital back but just throw it in as a viable alternative), use your Sony A camera with tilt shift lenses, or tilt shift adapter and Contax/Hasselblad lenses
5. ?
The main point is to add some tilt shift capability, assuming you are already relatively happy with the resolution of your lenses. Please share your experience.
I have a Contax/Phase system, while I'm very happy with it, I really want to add some tilt shift occasionally, however can't really figure out how. I also have an LF 4x5 film system, so thinking of going path 3. If you have specific experience regarding these, I'd love to hear your advice.
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Thats a beautiful set of equipment and beautiful images. How much tilt does 50/4 anf 40/4 gives you?
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What I see in the future is the HCam Master TS adapter for the Sony A7rII.
I'm looking forward seeing that combo in action as well. Just not sure Hasselblad old lenses could resolve such small pixel pitch, whats your opinion on this?
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How much tilt does 50/4 anf 40/4 gives you?
That depends on the size of sensor you place behind it.
These figures are for the "full frame" 6x6 but give an idea of how the image circle varies across the range:
http://harrysproshop.com/Hasselblad_Flex/hasselblad_flex.html
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Hi,
What I have seen, the Sonnars are very sharp, on level with the lenses I have for the Sony.
With the Planars, I would say that the Planar 100/3.5 is very sharp across the field at long distances.
The Planar 80/2.8 is very sharp at the center, but the field curves quite a bit of the center. Now, that is often a good thing.
The Distagons I have are a bit like the Planars.
I have shot some shifted shot with the Distagon 40/4 and found that lateral chromatic aberration (red/gree fringes on in focus areas off center) is significant and hard to correct. My tilted shots with the Planar 120/4 were OK. (These were shot on the Flexbody)
Chris Barret seems be very happy with his lenses on the A7r. Resolution on the A7rII is only 8% higher than on the A7r so I would say that if they are OK on the A7r they will be OK on the A7rII.
My plan is to buy a Canon 24/3.5 TSE for TS and add some Hartblei/Mirex stuff later.
As a side note, I planned initially to buy a Hartblei HCam B1, but that would be very significant outlay and I felt that MFD is to expensive for me in the long run. So, now I am leaning towards the A7r.
Best regards
Erik
I'm looking forward seeing that combo in action as well. Just not sure Hasselblad old lenses could resolve such small pixel pitch, whats your opinion on this?
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Is this a good place to mention that I have a Flexbody for sale because I have two of them and only need one.
The one I am keeping is a modified Flexbody called a "Bendyblad" because it has been changed so that it offers tilts and shifts sideways as well as the usual vertical tilts and shifts. About 200 were modified in this way by an Australian mining engineer Eric Owen who is still around for servicing requirements.
I have used my Flexbodys successfully with a Credo 60 and liveview and the 100% zoom makes focussing practical, especially when doing tilts.
The Flexbody has more than twice the tilt of an HTS (which has only 10º) and has 21mm of extension (tube) built-in. Also, it does not apply a lens factor like the HTS does (1.5)
Roger
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Hi,
What I have seen, used Flexbodies are available at very low prices, so it is worth trying.
This was shot with the Macro Planar 120/4 on the Flexbody (klick on image for full size):
(http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BernardSamples/Macro_Planar_120/20140404-CF044678_small.jpg) (http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BernardSamples/Macro_Planar_120/20140404-CF044678.jpg)
Raw image is here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Shoots/BernardSamples/Macro_Planar_120/20140404-CF044678.iiq
Best regards
Erik
Is this a good place to mention that I have a Flexbody for sale because I have two of them and only need one.
The one I am keeping is a modified Flexbody called a "Bendyblad" because it has been changed so that it offers tilts and shifts sideways as well as the usual vertical tilts and shifts. About 200 were modified in this way by an Australian mining engineer Eric Owen who is still around for servicing requirements.
I have used my Flexbodys successfully with a Credo 60 and liveview and the 100% zoom makes focussing practical, especially when doing tilts.
The Flexbody has more than twice the tilt of an HTS (which has only 10º) and has 21mm of extension (tube) built-in. Also, it does not apply a lens factor like the HTS does (1.5)
Roger
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If you're going to shoot long focal lengths the legacy analog systems will be fine. At wide angle you gain from sharper lenses and better parallelism of the body, and geared movements.
If you want to shoot wide angle I would thus look for second hand tech cams, some can be quite "cheap".
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I would say the best and more flexible system for poor man (cheap and good) would be a Sinar P, X or PII. It have only one disanvantage: size and weight. If you work mostly in studio no other system can beat it, in quality and price ( you get Sinar P for 400 euro).
Sinar stuff like lensboards, adapters, sliding backs are easy to get as second hand and cheap.
You can use a digi back with a sliding back or Sony a7r or canon/ nikon. The schneider/rodenstock lenses are the best choice ( also some old lenses like Componons ect..) but there are also cheap adapters for Hasselbla/mamiya lenses. Also there are no problems to use real wide lenses, what is not possible with Fuji 68 system. No other system can give you the full freedom of movements with front and rear.
Newer large camera systems are simply smaller and lighter like Arca Swiss M2 ... so better to carry with, but much more expensive.
Cambo WDS would be the cheapest camera indead when you look for small camerasystem to work outside, but all lenses mounted on focusing mout are expensive ( no tilt! only with special TS mounts!) and not easy to get second hand.
Silvestri Bitcam is also interesting, with Tilt possibility (with Flexicam) and sliding back- great when you want to use screen also,
some of them are to get used with lens. but such system will be still expensive.
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I would say the best and more flexible system for poor man (cheap and good) would be a Sinar P, X or PII. It have only one disanvantage: size and weight. If you work mostly in studio no other system can beat it, in quality and price ( you get Sinar P for 400 euro).
Sinar stuff like lensboards, adapters, sliding backs are easy to get as second hand and cheap.
You can use a digi back with a sliding back or Sony a7r or canon/ nikon. The schneider/rodenstock lenses are the best choice ( also some old lenses like Componons ect..) but there are also cheap adapters for Hasselbla/mamiya lenses. Also there are no problems to use real wide lenses, what is not possible with Fuji 68 system. No other system can give you the full freedom of movements with front and rear.
Newer large camera systems are simply smaller and lighter like Arca Swiss M2 ... so better to carry with, but much more expensive.
Cambo WDS would be the cheapest camera indead when you look for small camerasystem to work outside, but all lenses mounted on focusing mout are expensive ( no tilt! only with special TS mounts!) and not easy to get second hand.
Silvestri Bitcam is also interesting, with Tilt possibility (with Flexicam) and sliding back- great when you want to use screen also,
some of them are to get used with lens. but such system will be still expensive.
Hi Ronan, I'm thinking along very much the same line. I have a Sinar P system I have used and loved for a long time and thinking of mounting my IQ back on it. However how do solve problems with wide lenses (for example Hasselblad CFE 40/4) the short focal lengths leave very little room for tilt/swing, which is one of my main use.
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I have a Fuji GX680 with adapter for Contax 645 backs on it (cause I use C645 too)... The only problem is with WAs since the wider Fuji can go is only 50mm... So in your case, you may consider using a V-back on the Fuji, since Capture group makes a stitching back for V-backs where one can stitch two shots and cover (almost) the whole image area of the Fuji... Another thing with the Fuji, is that you only need a cable in case you have a multishot back instead of having to invest a huge amount on digital lenses and electronic shutters... An additional advantage is that for real wide shots, one can use 120 film with it and the back is revolving. The only issue one has to overcome over view cameras, is that the movements are not geared and that he has to focus with the front standard.
If I didn't need to use both my multishot MFDBs with movements and only cared for single shot, I would probably consider a Cambo Actus with a FF Sony Alpha on it instead of MFDB...
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When you use newer backs You should get better wide Lens as the 40 cf. So only 40 if- the newest design would give you the right resolutionpower but it is a expensive lens and have Strong distortion for that Kind of Lens. Cheaper and best Lens for movements would be Roddy 40 mm, only half price of the hassel 40 if. I would also take a Look arca Universalis as little camera system. You can use it also as sinar for sony, backs and analog 4x5.
Cambo actus is in this Kind strange, you can use it only with backs Or only for sony. To use it for both you need 2 cameras.
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When you use newer backs You should get better wide Lens as the 40 cf. So only 40 if- the newest design would give you the right resolutionpower but it is a expensive lens and have Strong distortion for that Kind of Lens. Cheaper and best Lens for movements would be Roddy 40 mm, only half price of the hassel 40 if. I would also take a Look arca Universalis as little camera system. You can use it also as sinar for sony, backs and analog 4x5.
Cambo actus is in this Kind strange, you can use it only with backs Or only for sony. To use it for both you need 2 cameras.
This is not actually the case. First, the Cambo Actus accepts the following smaller format cameras to be mounted:
- Sony E Mount (A7, etc)
- Nikon F
- Canon EOS
- Fuji X
- Panasonic/Olympus M4/3
The Cambo Actus DB/DB Plus naturally accepts film and/or digital backs from any manufacturer in the following interfaces:
- Phase One/Mamiya 645
- Mamiya RB 6x7 (film only)
- Hasselblad H 645
- Hasselblad V 6x6
- Contax 645
- Hy6/AFi 6x6
You do not need 2 separate Actus models to shoot with smaller formats and medium format. The same base Actus model can be converted to fit one or the other interchangeably.
https://captureintegration.com/cambo/cambo-actus/
https://captureintegration.com/first-look-cambo-actus/
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve You are right, my last info to Actus was not exact, I wanted to write that the change from actus for Sony ect.... To Actus DB is not easy becouse in this case the whole rear part must be changed. This is much more expensive and more complicated as at Arca, Sinar or old Cambo ultima, where only bellows and rearadapters must be Changed, so this system change is easy, fast and Less expensive. I use Cambo wrs system and using wrs Lenses on Actus Sounds very attractive for me. But the lack of easy changing of the system was the reason for me to stay with Arca.
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Steve You are right, my last info to Actus was not exact, I wanted to write that the change from actus for Sony ect.... To Actus DB is not easy becouse in this case the whole rear part must be changed. This is much more expensive and more complicated as at Arca, Sinar or old Cambo ultima, where only bellows and rearadapters must be Changed, so this system change is easy, fast and Less expensive. I use Cambo wrs system and using wrs Lenses on Actus Sounds very attractive for me. But the lack of easy changing of the system was the reason for me to stay with Arca.
The cost of the conversion kit is more expensive, however, the overall cost with the conversion kits for each system probably still results in the Cambo being less expensive. And it is extremely easy to perform - you remove 4 screws from the front block it slides off, you remove 1 screw from the back standard and it slides right off. Replace and tighten.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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I'm happy to many peoples are thinking similar to my ideas.
I would like to think How to make compact technical camera in low price.
How about this,
compact tech cam for sony a7 series.
http://chiek.co.kr/6807 (http://chiek.co.kr/6807)
and one more,
sinar p2 with in sony a7R
https://youtu.be/MMTviishhR8 (https://youtu.be/MMTviishhR8)
https://youtu.be/XzpIc-ZD6XY (https://youtu.be/XzpIc-ZD6XY)
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- Mamiya RB 6x7 (film only)
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
and the 6x8 Mamyia motorized back? thank you in advance