Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Richard Osbourne on June 01, 2015, 07:15:21 am

Title: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Richard Osbourne on June 01, 2015, 07:15:21 am
http://photorumors.com/2015/05/31/new-phase-one-xf-medium-format-camera-leaked-online/#more-72176

Looks solid to me.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: ndevlin on June 01, 2015, 11:42:49 am
The complete silence from the usual suspects with a pecuniary interest in Phase pretty much confirms the rumor.

It'll be interesting to see what they've managed to come up with.

Haters in 3...2....1....

- N.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: sgilbert on June 01, 2015, 11:58:26 am
No need to count down;  just go to the Where is the New Phase One Body thread.

The usual. 
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 12:00:40 pm
The complete silence from the usual suspects with a pecuniary interest in Phase pretty much confirms the rumor.

It'll be interesting to see what they've managed to come up with.

Haters in 3...2....1....
it is rather clearly a genuine leak, with official news coming on Tuesday (June 2), as discussed in the thread
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99658.msg826127#new
and the cynical ("hater") perspective is already on display there even before any announcement.

For one thing, apparently it is pointless to design and offer new camera bodies or lenses if not accompanied by new sensors.  (One wonders why film camera makers ever bothered with producing new products.)
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: synn on June 01, 2015, 12:09:42 pm
The complete silence from the usual suspects with a pecuniary interest in Phase pretty much confirms the rumor.

It'll be interesting to see what they've managed to come up with.

Haters in 3...2....1....

- N.

I fully expect a "The New Phase One body does not make a BLT sandwich" thread in a day's time.
Over to you, Paris.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Ken R on June 01, 2015, 12:42:59 pm
The complete silence from the usual suspects with a pecuniary interest in Phase pretty much confirms the rumor.

It'll be interesting to see what they've managed to come up with.

Haters in 3...2....1....

- N.

Numero Uno argument by the haters... Price!
Numero dos... Too Clunky / Heavy / Large
Numero tres... Too slow

and so on...

Yeah, the info looks pretty legit and the camera looks very nice. Pending some serious testing it looks very promising. Design wise it looks in line with the IQ backs which are awesome. Overall, great to see advances in Medium Format.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: eronald on June 01, 2015, 02:16:55 pm
I fully expect a "The New Phase One body does not make a BLT sandwich" thread in a day's time.
Over to you, Paris.

It's not good sportsmanship to shoot a sitting bird.

Let's wait for the actual product details, sighting and pricing before we bash it.

I see no reason why a Phase CMOS product should be bad if the body is updated - the image is now mainly Sony and the lenses Schneider :)


Edmund
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: amsp on June 01, 2015, 02:19:09 pm
I'm personally very excited they're bringing back the waist level finder. Unfortunately looking at the pictures I get the impression the handle doesn't swivel, which would make it useless for me at least. I hope I'm wrong. Also, I would have preferred analog knobs and buttons for the basic stuff instead of a touch screen, but I might be in a minority on that point nowadays. Initial impression is that it looks a little too much like previous cameras for me to get hyped, but I really hope looks are deceiving and that I will be blown away once all the details are presented.

Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: sgilbert on June 01, 2015, 02:22:24 pm
Come now, we don't need to know anything to begin bashing. 

To some, that's a specialty. 
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 02:37:58 pm
. . . I would have preferred analog knobs and buttons for the basic stuff instead of a touch screen . . .
If you visit the site with the "leaked classified documents" previously posted by voidshatter in that other thread, you will see the words
Quote
Change anything with buttons and dials . . . Or just click and change on the touch screen
so they have us old-timers covered too!


P. S. Is defending an unannounced, unreviewed product that I have no interest in buying and will no have significant effect on me one way or another better or worse than criticizing it?
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: amsp on June 01, 2015, 02:53:47 pm
If you visit the site with the "leaked classified documents" previously posted by voidshatter in that other thread, you will see the wordsso they have us old-timers covered too!


P. S. Is defending an unannounced, unreviewed product that I have no interest in buying and will no have significant effect on me one way or another better or worse than criticizing it?

If you look at the picture there are no analog knobs, only 3 buttons used to interact WITH the screen. I like to have quick access to basic settings without taking the camera away from my eye and looking down at a screen. I'm also worried that touch screen will impact reliability, it's another thing that can potentially break and need a costly repair. I guess I'm just old school like that.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 03:01:05 pm
If you look at the picture there are no analog knobs, only 3 buttons used to interact WITH the screen. . . .  I guess I'm just old school like that.
I'm going to wait until we have at least seen the whole camera (not just a close up of the touch screen area) and its specs before accusing Phase One of lying and worrying about all the things that they might have done wrong.  I guess I'm just old school like that.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: AreBee on June 01, 2015, 03:16:07 pm
BJL,

Quote
Is defending an unannounced, unreviewed product that I have no interest in buying and will no have significant effect on me one way or another better or worse than criticizing it?

Equal.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 03:24:24 pm
P. S. Is defending an unannounced, unreviewed product that I have no interest in buying and will no have significant effect on me one way or another better or worse than criticizing it?
Equal.
OK, let me refine my question: how about trying to ease concerns or to refute critical claims by quoting directly from what little actual evidence we do have so far?  I confess that the general bias towards cynicism on the internet has driven me in the other direction, to something of an "innocent until proven guilty" bias.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: amsp on June 01, 2015, 03:41:27 pm
I'm going to wait until we have at least seen the whole camera (not just a close up of the touch screen area) and its specs before accusing Phase One of lying and worrying about all the things that they might have done wrong.  I guess I'm just old school like that.

Accusing them of lying? What are you talking about? You seem confused.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: eronald on June 01, 2015, 03:47:50 pm

But honestly when that guy wrote that there would be a new phase one annoucement, I would have bet they had bought Hasselblad, as that seems to be the professional body of choice for phase one users.
BC

As you say, I just got an email from Hassy offering the H5x with some lens for $12K or so.
Which is basically the same price as an H5D40 these days, with the back.
I guess that tells us how badly (not) they are frightened of Phase users with Hassy backs crossgrading to the new body..

Edmund
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Chris Livsey on June 01, 2015, 04:32:01 pm
Accusing them of lying? What are you talking about? You seem confused.

Is the reference not to the quote "Change anything with buttons and dials . . . Or just click and change on the touch screen" when there are no dials to be seen, as yet, because we are sadly commenting on leaked pictures.

The compatibly is going to be interesting, what is lost with old backs on a new body and vice versa and how will the new backs play on the other bodies, IF they make H mount available.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 04:35:16 pm
Accusing them of lying? What are you talking about? You seem confused.
The Phase One document that I quote above clearly say that one can "Change anything with buttons and dials", followed by "Or just click and change on the touch screen", where I emphasize the "or", because that rather clearly suggests that use of the touchscreen to change settings is an option, not mandatory;
the response was
If you look at the picture there are no analog knobs, only 3 buttons used to interact WITH the screen.
So either you are confused, or are accusing Phase One of lying when it suggests that settings can be done without use of the touch screen.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: amsp on June 01, 2015, 05:12:16 pm
The Phase One document that I quote above clearly say that one can "Change anything with buttons and dials", followed by "Or just click and change on the touch screen", where I emphasize the "or", because that rather clearly suggests that use of the touchscreen to change settings is an option, not mandatory;
the response wasSo either you are confused, or are accusing Phase One of lying when it suggests that settings can be done without use of the touch screen.

What is it you don't understand? You can either directly use the touch screen or use the buttons to interact, when for example you are using gloves. It's the same way the IQ backs work today. But you can't use the buttons without looking at the screen to navigate the interface, that makes no sense. I'm talking about dedicated buttons and especially knobs for quick access to basic functions, like cameras used to have. It's also just my personal preference as I pointed out several times, so I'm quite bewildered why you feel the need to attack me and use language like "accusing Phase One of lying".
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: mjrichardson on June 01, 2015, 05:38:50 pm
amsp, what pictures are you looking at? There are very clearly dials on the grip, just look at the pictures.. one above the shutter button and it looks like one on the back along with a button for use with the thumb.

(http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Phase-One-XF-medium-format-camera-6.jpg)

(http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Phase-One-XF-medium-format-camera-5.jpg)
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: amsp on June 01, 2015, 05:50:36 pm
amsp, what pictures are you looking at? There are very clearly dials on the grip, just look at the pictures.. one above the shutter button and it looks like one on the back along with a button for use with the thumb.

DEDICATED dials and buttons, I can't believe I have to do this but here's an illustration for you...

Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Don Libby on June 01, 2015, 05:53:57 pm
I've got an idea - lets give it a break until the official announcement tomorrow with all the gory details before we all run off the ledge? Can we at least wait until we get all the facts?

This shit is getting very old and tiring-every time a new camera is released/announced people act like the sky is falling.  Maybe this should become a new Olympic sport...
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: mjrichardson on June 01, 2015, 05:55:51 pm
Ha, you are such drama queen amsp, you would rather have 2 dials on top than have a dial front and back, luckily you have the option of the contax body.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: amsp on June 01, 2015, 06:08:16 pm
Ha, you are such drama queen amsp, you would rather have 2 dials on top than have a dial front and back, luckily you have the option of the contax body.

Not sure how having a personal preference turned me into a "drama queen", but I guess it's better than having the reading comprehension skills of a 5 year old.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: mjrichardson on June 01, 2015, 06:16:08 pm
It's not your personal preference, it's just your responses, they are very entertaining! Thanks for brightening my evening.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: eronald on June 01, 2015, 07:12:48 pm
Can someone buy the kids a coke and some popcorn to keep them busy until the show starts?

Edmund
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 07:15:36 pm
What is it you don't understand? You can either directly use the touch screen or use the buttons to interact, when for example you are using gloves. It's the same way the IQ backs work today. But you can't use the buttons without looking at the screen to navigate the interface, that makes no sense.
My apologies for the misunderstanding; from your original comment that you "would have preferred analog knobs and buttons for the basic stuff instead of a touch screen" [with no mention then of wanting them to be "dedicated buttons"] and from your follow up, I concluded that you were complaining about being forced to use touch interaction, not merely about the display on the LCD of the results of twiddling knobs and pressing buttons. I was also at first puzzled by your comment that "I like to have quick access to basic settings without taking the camera away from my eye and looking down at a screen" because I am used to cameras displaying all basic settings in the viewfinder as well as on-screen. But maybe this is something that Phase One does not do well, so I will have to wait till tomorrow to clarify.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF, official spec. sheet
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 09:42:48 pm
https://digitaltransitions.com/pdf/xf-iq3-techspecs.pdf
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Grischa Rueschendorf on June 01, 2015, 10:11:03 pm
A few notable specs come to mind:
- XF camera got it's own new DB interface
- the new IQ3 series seems to interface with the XF only, no DF+ mount
- sensor plus is speced at HALF THE RESOLUTION instead of a quarter , is that a typo?
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: alan_b on June 01, 2015, 10:18:33 pm
CMOS sensor for AF seems like a good/interesting idea - I wonder how large it is?
Title: Re: New Phase One XF, official spec. sheet
Post by: Kagetsu on June 01, 2015, 10:42:15 pm
https://digitaltransitions.com/pdf/xf-iq3-techspecs.pdf

It's not working.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF, official spec. sheet
Post by: BJL on June 01, 2015, 10:51:49 pm
It's not working.
I guess that someone at DT jumped the gun on exposing the XF web pages and then fixed it -- try the link again in the morning!
Also, this one seems to work: https://digitaltransitions.com/page/xf-camera-system?gclid=CLCnu8Hw78UCFZA8gQodsLIAPQ
Title: Re: New Phase One XF, official spec. sheet
Post by: voidshatter on June 01, 2015, 11:35:07 pm
I guess that someone at DT jumped the gun on exposing the XF web pages and then fixed it -- try the link again in the morning!
Also, this one seems to work: https://digitaltransitions.com/page/xf-camera-system?gclid=CLCnu8Hw78UCFZA8gQodsLIAPQ

No fullframe CMOS from Sony. Guess my money goes for something else this year :)

I remove the screenshot since they decided to pull the pages off from their site
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: PaulSchneider on June 02, 2015, 12:04:19 am
BJL: Doesn't work: just post the pdf / screenshots! Please!
Title: Re: New Phase One XF, official spec. sheet
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 02, 2015, 12:07:11 am
I guess that someone at DT jumped the gun on exposing the XF web pages and then fixed it -- try the link again in the morning!
Also, this one seems to work: https://digitaltransitions.com/page/xf-camera-system?gclid=CLCnu8Hw78UCFZA8gQodsLIAPQ

This one was working until 5 mins ago, now it only shows a login page. ;)

I got the time to read it end to end though. It sounds like a great upgrade for Phaseone users and a well designed system.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: PaulSchneider on June 02, 2015, 12:09:10 am
Details! Highlights!

Sensor-wise: CCD gains long-exposure and thats it?
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: voidshatter on June 02, 2015, 12:14:41 am
I guess this time the IQ260 users will find their situation most tricky - if they upgrade to the IQ380, then they'll have to live with the CCD long exposure mode (ISO 200 minimum, dynamic range below Canon level); if they crossgrade to the IQ350 then they lose a huge amount of money as well as sensor size; if they stick with the IQ260 then "the belief of a fullframe sensor with long exposure" will be under attack by the IQ380.

I guess Phase One will not give us the fullframe CMOS back until they can clear out the inventory of CCD.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: PaulSchneider on June 02, 2015, 12:18:17 am
So what are the other key highlights? New AF?
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Kagetsu on June 02, 2015, 12:18:54 am
I just want to know, from those who read, is the new Camera body, compatible with the IQ1 series backs?
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: voidshatter on June 02, 2015, 12:26:26 am
I just want to know, from those who read, is the new Camera body, compatible with the IQ1 series backs?

I see a spare sheet comparing XF IQ3 and XF IQ1. I would assume that the old IQ180 backs still work but with limited functionality and integration (but I can't confirm this). XF IQ1 will lack these:

Wireless remote control with Capture Pilot   
Exposure Calculator   
Temprature Graph Tool   
Exposure Zone Tool   
Clip Warning   
Auto ISO & ISO Control   
Histogram on XF   
Virtual horizon on XF   
Prepared for future feature upgrades   

Better wait for the formal press release.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Kagetsu on June 02, 2015, 12:29:12 am
As long as the AF is an improvement, I don't need the extra features (except the top down finder, that excites me).
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 02, 2015, 12:40:19 am
BJL: Doesn't work: just post the pdf / screenshots! Please!
If DT doesn't want us to see it for a few more hours (to honor an NDA, I assume) I will respect that by not posting their copyrighted material . . . but any working URLs that I find with a simple Google search are fair game!

Note to DT people: get a content management system that allows you to develop site updates on an intranet server, and then to publish to the internet with one click when the time is right; putting stuff on an internet server and trying to hide it by obfuscating the URLs is futile against the search engine superpowers.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 02, 2015, 01:10:19 am
I guess Phase One will not give us the fullframe CMOS back until they can clear out the inventory of CCD.

Do we know for a fact that Sony has taken the decision to manufacture larger CMOS chips?

I continue to think that Phaseone and Leaf backs have the 50mp Sony chip mostly because Pentax is using the same sensor, I am wondering whether we will get a larger one until Pentax decides that their next 645 body will use a larger chip.

As a result, I don't think we are going to get a new larger CMOS from Sony before mid year 2017, that is if we get one at all. that would also be compatible with the 2 years upgrade cycle of IQ backs.

Just my guess obviously. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Kagetsu on June 02, 2015, 01:13:06 am
Do we know for a fact that Sony has taken the decision to manufacture larger CMOS chips?

I continue to think that Phaseone and Leaf backs have the 50mp Sony chip mostly because Pentax is using the same sensor, I am wondering whether we will get a larger one until Pentax decides that their next 645 body will use a larger chip.

As a result, I don't think we are going to get a new larger CMOS from Sony before mid year 2017, that is if we get one at all. that would also be compatible with the 2 years upgrade cycle of IQ backs.

Just my guess obviously. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

I too am sceptical about a rumoured full size 645 CMOS... I'd like to see it happen, but I think it's a tough to justify with the market right now.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: voidshatter on June 02, 2015, 01:17:59 am
Do we know for a fact that Sony has taken the decision to manufacture larger CMOS chips?

I continue to think that Phaseone and Leaf backs have the 50mp Sony chip mostly because Pentax is using the same sensor, I am wondering whether we will get a larger one until Pentax decides that their next 645 body will use a larger chip.

As a result, I don't think we are going to get a new larger CMOS from Sony before mid year 2017, that is if we get one at all. that would also be compatible with the 2 years upgrade cycle of IQ backs.

Just my guess obviously. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard


Doug predicted Late-2015 / Early-2016 for fullframe CMOS. I would have thought so. Note that Phase One terminated their Investment Protection Plan in September 2014, so I would assume that the XF IQ3 is a money sink to clear out the pre-Sep-2014 purchases. After that, they are safe to announce fullframe CMOS. It would be sad if we have to wait until 2017 for a fullframe CMOS.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 02, 2015, 03:04:24 am
Doug predicted Late-2015 / Early-2016 for fullframe CMOS. I would have thought so. Note that Phase One terminated their Investment Protection Plan in September 2014, so I would assume that the XF IQ3 is a money sink to clear out the pre-Sep-2014 purchases. After that, they are safe to announce fullframe CMOS. It would be sad if we have to wait until 2017 for a fullframe CMOS.

Well, I sure hope I am wrong! A full frame sensor leveraging a further improved version of the Sony technology would be about 75MP and would likely get 15 stops DR.

That would really become a tempting proposition. Not sure I could afford it though. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: synn on June 02, 2015, 03:29:03 am
Back to the original topic.

I really hope the new body will provide AT LEAST the existign functionality as the DF+ with the current backs. I dont need fancy in body stabilization and whatnot. The ability to control in back settings (Such as ISO) from the body, the interchangable viewfinders and the AF module are reasons enough.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: synn on June 02, 2015, 03:35:01 am

 the image is now mainly Sony and the lenses Schneider :)


So, if Phase's contribution to the system is negligible, surely the Edmund Ronald special MFD should be out any day now. Afterall, the Image can be "Mainly Sony" and "The Lenses Schneider", right? What's stopping you?
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Lawrie_Hope on June 02, 2015, 04:02:31 am
I'm personally very excited they're bringing back the waist level finder. Unfortunately looking at the pictures I get the impression the handle doesn't swivel, which would make it useless for me at least. I hope I'm wrong. Also, I would have preferred analog knobs and buttons for the basic stuff instead of a touch screen, but I might be in a minority on that point nowadays. Initial impression is that it looks a little too much like previous cameras for me to get hyped, but I really hope looks are deceiving and that I will be blown away once all the details are presented.

Fingers crossed.

If that's what you are looking for it's been in front of your eyes for years, the Leaf AFI/ Rollei HY6 mod 2 was almost the perfect camera, 6x6 frame, large bright WLF, 45 and 90 degree finders, rotating handle, analog buttons, rotating backs! Schneider glass, and if Leaf or DHW had been given a chance then I believe this could have been the ultimate camera!
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: amsp on June 02, 2015, 04:23:14 am
If that's what you are looking for it's been in front of your eyes for years, the Leaf AFI/ Rollei HY6 mod 2 was almost the perfect camera, 6x6 frame, large bright WLF, 45 and 90 degree finders, rotating handle, analog buttons, rotating backs! Schneider glass, and if Leaf or DHW had been given a chance then I believe this could have been the ultimate camera!

I agree, the Hy6 was (is) a lovely camera, but the fact that you couldn't mount a Phase One back on it always stopped me from buying one. But I fully expected Phase to take a lot of design cues from it, instead it seems they just iterated on their existing platform.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: ciccio on June 02, 2015, 07:31:40 am
what a deception !!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(

no iq3 full frame cmos

just "old" iq 2 adapted to iq 3

just ridicolous >>>>>>nobody doing upgrade for sure !
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: eronald on June 02, 2015, 07:43:07 am
Thankfully the Contax is now orphaned, , as well as all the old P+ backs - the used back market is going to get really  interesting. :)

Edmund
Title: New Phase One XF: IQ back mont options
Post by: BJL on June 02, 2015, 09:12:14 am
Thankfully the Contax is now orphaned, , as well as all the old P+ backs - the used back market is going to get really  interesting. :)

Edmund
The spec sheet impiies that various IQ2 back models are staying around for the sake of Hasselblad bodies (V as well as H); will that also cover Contax?  The IQ3 changes are moslty just supporting another "mount" with enhanced body-back interface, rather than an upgrade, so maybe P1 will keep the IQ2 and even IQ1 series around as its way to continue selling backs for every MF body that is still generating enough demand.

Then again, this was clearly a body upgrade, with a few side-effects -- a much asked for and long promised body upgrade -- so who knows what effect the next more substantial sensor ugrade will do to the mount  offerings.

UPDATE: Doug P. has now confirmed that Contax bodies are no longer supported.  More old Hasselblad V bodies in use, apparently!
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: Anders_HK on June 02, 2015, 10:51:08 am
If that's what you are looking for it's been in front of your eyes for years, the Leaf AFI/ Rollei HY6 mod 2 was almost the perfect camera, 6x6 frame, large bright WLF, 45 and 90 degree finders, rotating handle, analog buttons, rotating backs! Schneider glass, and if Leaf or DHW had been given a chance then I believe this could have been the ultimate camera!


As an Hy6 user with 80MP Leaf back, I wonder what XF has over Hy6 to make it the "worlds best camera system"????

Specifically, what makes it better for me and my photography than my Hy6 already is?

How does its waist lever finder work in portrait mode? Plus never mind high tech gadgets which are not what I need (or wish spend $$ on), what I specific value is camera helps me set up to frame and capture image pre visualised in my mind.

What would be reason to spend how much $$ to switch and what advantage would bring to my photography of landscape and models??

Can rotate sensor??

Why when Leaf owns rights to Hy6 and thus the superb Rolleiflex lenses not simply further the superior Hy6 is beyond my belief....

Is any reasonable answer to a photographer and loyal Leaf customer such as I ??? Phase One/ Leaf???

Just my 2c...

Anders
I
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: uaiomex on June 02, 2015, 11:44:27 am
+1

Strange times indeed these post-Concorde years. Somebody please get the Delorean ready!

Eduardo



As an Hy6 user with 80MP Leaf back, I wonder what XF has over Hy6 to make it the "worlds best camera system"????

Specifically, what makes it better for me and my photography than my Hy6 already is?

How does its waist lever finder work in portrait mode? Plus never mind high tech gadgets which are not what I need (or wish spend $$ on), what I specific value is camera helps me set up to frame and capture image pre visualised in my mind.

What would be reason to spend how much $$ to switch and what advantage would bring to my photography of landscape and models??

Can rotate sensor??

Why when Leaf owns rights to Hy6 and thus the superb Rolleiflex lenses not simply further the superior Hy6 is beyond my belief....

Is any reasonable answer to a photographer and loyal Leaf customer such as I ??? Phase One/ Leaf???

Just my 2c...

Anders
I
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: BJL on June 02, 2015, 01:34:35 pm

As an Hy6 user with 80MP Leaf back, I wonder what XF has over Hy6 to make it the "worlds best camera system"????
Perhaps it is just the best camera system still in production, now that the Rolleiflex/Hy6 fabrication tools and such have been sold off at the Franke & Heidecke liquidation auction in April, at least according to what I read a few months ago.
Title: Re: New Phase One XF?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on June 02, 2015, 02:14:57 pm
Hi Anders,

In a way, photography is about lens and sensor. In the old days it was about lens and film.

What I would say the Phase One XF offers is  convenience, a new and hopefully more  robust user interface compared to the older Phase One options.

Now, our way of shooting may differ. Personally, I am a slow worker using the prism viewfinder on the old V-series blad with a 3X Zeiss monocular. Some users use AF, and the new AF-system on the XF may be a great improvement. Personally, I would prefer magnified live view for focusing so the 50 MP CMOS back may be optimal for me. Overexposure warnings based on raw data would be a real boon for me, and a couple of F-stops in DR from the CMOS back is nothing I would sneeze at.

I don't know about the Phase One lenses, but according to the MTF charts from Schneider they are pretty good. It is quite possible that the Schneider lenses for the Hy6 are truly excellent. The Zeiss lenses I am mostly familiar with having experience with many of the Zeiss lenses for the Blad (40/4 CF FLE, 50/4 CF FLE, 80 CFE, 120/4 CF/CFi, 150/4 CT and CF and 180/4 CFI).

Unfortunately, the Hy6 is now longer with us, as DHW went insolvent. Clearly, DHW may have deserved a better destiny, but we live in a harsh world where any company needs to earn enough cash to survive.

What the worlds best camera system is may depend on the needs of the user. For a photojournalist a "professional" camera like Nikon D4 or Canon D1X may be the best. For some photographers a high resolution Nikon or Sony may be the best choice. If a wide variety of T&S options are needed the Sony A7 variants may be hard to beat. For 50 MP, the Canon 5Ds just arrived with those excellent T&S lenses and the new 11-24 zoom.

For some users a technical camera makes a lot of sense. A technical camera with a built in shutter like the Alpa FPS or the Hartblei H-CAM may be the ideal combo with a CMOS based MFD offering excellent live view. But, present generation CMOS from Sony has 1.3X crop and doesn't play well with large amounts of shifts, specially not with non retrofocus wide angle designs.

Very clearly, the new Phase One XF is a major step forward for the Phase One system.

I would also make the point that the main competitor to Phase One is Hasselblad and to some extent Pentax 645Z and Leica S2. Phase one was always a bit lacking on the camera body, and the new body is a major step forward.

Personally, I would think that my future may be with the Sony FE mount. Zeiss makes some nice lenses for that mount, and I guess that Sony may build an A# series camera worth my money. Some Canon wide angles, a Mirex T&S adapter for my Hasselblad lenses and some Zeiss primes is where I may end up before going into retirement.

Best regards
Erik


As an Hy6 user with 80MP Leaf back, I wonder what XF has over Hy6 to make it the "worlds best camera system"????

Specifically, what makes it better for me and my photography than my Hy6 already is?

How does its waist lever finder work in portrait mode? Plus never mind high tech gadgets which are not what I need (or wish spend $$ on), what I specific value is camera helps me set up to frame and capture image pre visualised in my mind.

What would be reason to spend how much $$ to switch and what advantage would bring to my photography of landscape and models??

Can rotate sensor??

Why when Leaf owns rights to Hy6 and thus the superb Rolleiflex lenses not simply further the superior Hy6 is beyond my belief....

Is any reasonable answer to a photographer and loyal Leaf customer such as I ??? Phase One/ Leaf???

Just my 2c...

Anders
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